Dec. 8, 2025

1-800-TYPHOID: The Oregon Trail Part Two

1-800-TYPHOID: The Oregon Trail Part Two
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Hope can fit inside a covered wagon, but so can heartbreak. We trace the Sager family’s 1844 push toward Oregon—from a baby born on the prairie and a nine-year-old’s leg crushed under a wagon wheel to typhoid, orphanhood, and a desperate bid for safety at the Whitman Mission in Walla Walla. What looks like a quiet waystation becomes the center of an epidemic, a cultural collision, and the event that reshaped the Pacific Northwest: the Whitman Massacre.

We walk through the mission’s daily life under Marcus and Narcissa Whitman, the strict routines that held the Sager orphans together, and the slow unspooling of trust with the Cayuse. When measles struck in 1847, immunity lines drew fault lines. Many settler children recovered while Cayuse families buried their young, fueling suspicion that the “medicine man” favored newcomers over the people whose land the mission occupied. Rumor blended with grief, and a violent reckoning followed. The massacre claimed 14 lives, including the Whitmans and the Sagers’ two eldest boys, and left women and children, the Sager girls among them, imprisoned through winter until Hudson’s Bay Company trader Peter Ogden ransomed the survivors with blankets, muskets, and tobacco.

From there, the story widens. The rescue led to foster placements in the Willamette Valley, the official creation of the Oregon Territory, and the Cayuse War. We follow each surviving Sager sister forward: Catherine’s amputation and classic memoir Across the Plains in 1844, Elizabeth’s long memory of the mission, Matilda’s resilience across marriages and states, and Henrietta’s brief, tragic life. Along the way we press on the larger questions the Trail still asks: Who gets care when medicine is scarce? How do missions, settlers, and Indigenous nations negotiate land, respect, and survival? And what costs get folded into the myth of westward expansion?

If you’re drawn to true pioneer stories, Indigenous–settler history, and the real Oregon Trail beyond the game screen, you’ll find a human, unflinching account here. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves history, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show. What moment stayed with you most? Tell us on YouTube, X, Instagram, or Facebook at History Buffoons Podcast.

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00:16 - Warm-Up, Wine, And Setup

02:46 - Recap Of Part One

05:32 - Meet The Sager Family

10:54 - Birth On The Trail And Early Mishaps

15:45 - Catherine’s Broken Leg And Fort Laramie

20:40 - Camp Fever Strikes And Henry Dies

24:58 - Naomi’s Last Wish And Passing

28:30 - Arrival At Whitman Mission

33:20 - Life Under The Whitmans

39:10 - Tension With The Cayuse

44:12 - Measles Epidemic And Mistrust

50:10 - The Whitman Massacre

55:05 - Captivity And Ransom

01:00:20 - Aftermath And The Cayuse War

01:04:45 - The Sager Sisters’ Later Lives

01:12:10 - Reflections, Legacy, And Closing

WEBVTT

00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:17.839
Oh, hey there.

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That was my apologies.

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He wasn't wearing his headphones.

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I forgot my headphones.

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You can't hear me without his headphones.

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What?

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What?

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We are the History Buffoons.

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I am Bradley.

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And I'm Kate.

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How are you today, Kate?

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I'm doing well.

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Thank you for joining us today.

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Yeah, on uh part two of Senor Oregon Trail.

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Senor?

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I don't know why I said that.

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Mr.

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Oregon Trail.

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Made you laugh.

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That's why I'm here.

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Refer to the jokes.

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How about El Oregon Trail?

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Do you know what they call cancer in Spanish?

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El cancer.

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El cancer.

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I love that line in Deadpool.

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It's so good.

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So my cats are incessant for food.

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They is not time for them to eat.

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Um, but if you hear them in the background, that is because um Amos is hungry and he's speaking for all cats everywhere.

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And Nathan is currently napping.

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Yes, as you should.

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And and we are trying to not be too loud, but you know what?

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Things happen.

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Yeah.

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I get pretty heated about the Oregon Trail.

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So Okay, so uh oh, we drinking to die.

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So we had wine the other the other episode.

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Yeah.

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Part one.

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Part one.

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Did we have that on part one?

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I think so, yeah.

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No, we had Sarah Nevada.

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That's right.

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We did, did we?

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We didn't.

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We had wine uh anyways.

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We had wine some time ago.

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Not that long ago.

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But uh so we we had uh Sauve Blanc that is my flavor of wine, if if I ever have wine that I usually go to, and it's a white.

00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.319
Um you like Pinot Grigio, so Pinot Grigio, yeah.

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We are doing 14 hands Pinot Grigio.

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You've had this before, correct?

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I've I don't know if I've had that particular Pinot.

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But you've had 14 Hands before.

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I've had 14 hands before.

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I think they've always been red blends, but I really liked 14 hands.

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Okay.

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Um so yeah, this is a Pinot Grigio, which is my favorite flavor of wine.

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So cheers.

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Cheers.

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Yep.

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Yep, that's Pinot Grigio.

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That's delicious.

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I also have a backup beer.

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Um not not because I didn't think I would like it, it's just because it's a backup, yeah.

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Well, yeah, it's an additional one.

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Yeah, because you know I I'm I'm thirsty.

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So if you have not listened to part one yet, um you do not have to listen to that one to to follow this one.

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Right.

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Um, however, the first part um is all about the general idea, the general background of what the Oregon Trail was.

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Yeah, the promise of of greater pastures in Oregon.

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Yeah, so it would go over um where people would start from, where they would end, independence, what um types of um situations they might encounter along the trail, that kind of thing.

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Yeah, so just a very generalized background of locations and trials and tribulations along the path to Oregon.

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And this part Sorry, I was just overpronouncing Oregon.

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This part is about a particular family, and some of the things that we talked about in part one definitely happened to this family.

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And we might bring up the game again.

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Oh, we did play the game.

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Let's just start that right now.

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Okay.

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Um, so I tried to find the Oregon Trail card game and I could not.

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Um but not without getting it here in a timely manner.

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But you can literally get the 90s version of the Oregon Trail at Oregon Trail.

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And you can play it for free online.

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I will put in a couple screenshots for those of you listening to or watching the YouTube version.

00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:06.639
Yep.

00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:09.680
Um, Bradley was one of the characters.

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Not because you put me in, right?

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It was Oh no, I put your name in.

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Oh, it was.

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Oh, I put yeah, I put my name in and your name in, and then the other three were randomized.

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I thought that I thought that was pure coincidence when you told me about it.

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So I have a screenshot of Bradley getting a snake bite, and then Bradley died.

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I did not make it to Oregon.

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My apologies.

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Um, and then you found a Oregon trail.

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So I have um Apple stuff, so I have Apple Arcade, and it's the it's a pretty much an updated version of it with obviously much better graphics and such and so on.

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So I was playing it just a little bit.

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I didn't I didn't get too far into it, but it was kind of funny because you know you gotta still make uh it's question-based, you know, like who do you want to do this and so on and whatever.

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But it was it was kind of fun.

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Yeah, it looked nice, obviously, because it's again, it's newer, but um, but yeah, it was funny.

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But I'm going to put this um website in our show notes as well because it's it's fun.

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I mean it's classic.

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It's nostalgic.

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If anyone in our general time time age group, age group, yeah.

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There's the word I was looking for.

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Um they've there's you most likely have played it in your youth.

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Yeah there's a very good chance.

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So you know, nostalgic, like you said.

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So I like shit like that.

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So all right.

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Well, let's get into part two here.

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Let's do it.

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We are gonna talk about the Sager family.

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Sager?

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C-A-G-E-R, Sager.

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Sager.

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Mm-hmm.

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Sager?

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Sager.

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Spell it again?

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S-A-G-E-R.

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Oh, Sager.

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Okay.

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Sorry, sorry, sorry.

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That's right.

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I'm not a smart man.

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So um we have Henry and Naomi Sager.

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Uh-huh.

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Those are the um man and wife.

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Yep.

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And they had already moved their family multiple times at this point.

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We're uh from Virginia to Ohio to Indiana, they were always in search of better prospects.

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Sure.

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And by 1839, they settled on a farm in Platte County, Missouri.

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Okay, where Henry worked as a farmer and a blacksmith.

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But come late 1843, um, tales of the fertile Oregon County and hopes for a more healthy climate led them to sell their farm and prepare to head west.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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They wintered in St.

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Joseph, Missouri.

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This was one of the jumping off points.

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Oh, it was, okay.

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And by spring, the Sagers were determined to join the Great Migration.

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Wow.

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So in April of 1844, Henry Sager, 34, and Naomi, 36, set out on the Oregon Trail with not one kid, not even four kids.

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Seven, six children, and Naomi was pregnant with her seventh.

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I kind of got it right.

00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:10.480
You did.

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They joined a wagon train known as the Independent Colony, a group of about 300 pioneers with 72 covered wagons.

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Holy shit.

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And they were led by Captain William T.

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Shaw.

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William T.

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Shaw, okay.

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He was a veteran of the War of 1812.

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He was an experienced frontiersman.

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He was from Iowa.

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He served as state legislator.

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Like he was kind of the natural leader.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Makes sense.

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Okay.

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So on April 30th, 1844, the caravan ferried across the Missouri River and officially began the 2,000-mile trek to Oregon.

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Good lord.

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The Sagres wagon was heavy with provisions and children.

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Well, yeah, six of them.

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Ages range ranging from toddler to early teens.

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And of course, the journey start was really chaotic.

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Yeah.

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Catherine Sager, who was nine years old at the time, later wrote that simply getting used to the wagon's jostling motion was hard.

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Well, I mean, they didn't really have great suspension back then.

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No, not so much.

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They had probably some, but they did in the in the driver's seat.

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Yeah, more or less, you know, those metal to help with the bounce.

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But yeah, I can't imagine that was very great.

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You're just bouncing up and down in the back there.

00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:41.200
But she qu said, quote, the motion of the wagon made us all sick, and it was weeks before we got used to the C sick motion.

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I would be dead just.

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You would be screwed.

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You get you get car sick, motion sick, whatever you want to call it.

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Yeah.

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Very easily.

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Yeah.

00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.120
So could you imagine you going through this?

00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:51.600
No.

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You would have looked at it and thrown up.

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I would have to drive.

00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:56.720
No, you that would have been scary.

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You driving oxen.

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We're all walking beside who are we getting.

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Yeah, I know.

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So despite early mishaps, because at one point their oxen had strayed back to their winter pasture, causing a delay.

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It's like, hold on, I just I gotta go back and get my ox.

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The wagon train made steady progress westward in the early weeks.

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So five weeks into the journey in late May of 1844, Naomi Sager gave birth in the wagon to a baby girl, Rosanna Sager.

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Rosanna?

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Okay.

00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.559
And the birth took place right along the trail in what is now Kansas.

00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:31.519
Oh, all right.

00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:36.480
It was a perilous delivery on the open prairie, but both mother and infant survived.

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Yay.

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However, Naomi's recovery was quite slow.

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Child birth left her weakened for a really long time.

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Sure.

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Um, the wagon train paused to celebrate July 4th of 1844 with a patriotic gathering on the Platte River banks.

00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:52.639
Wow, all right.

00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:57.519
Um, it was a brief moment of festivity before fate would actually strike again.

00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.120
Oh, what happened?

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A few days after the Independence Day respite, while fording the South Fork of the Platte, the Sager's wagon overturned in the shallow river.

00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:10.080
Oh no.

00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:14.000
Naomi, the mother, was severely injured.

00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:14.799
Oh boy.

00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:20.879
She was caught in the wreckage and soaked, um, and she likely suffered internal injuries or bruising.

00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:21.759
Oh dear.

00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:27.519
Um, she was either standing or kneeling inside the wagon, um, likely tending to children.

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When it toppled.

00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.799
Yeah, a sudden jolt like threw her against the side of the wagon.

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She struck her head and her side really hard and knocked and was knocked unconscious.

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Oh boy.

00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:44.240
So she was hurt and she was weak um for quite some time, but Naomi knew that she had to continue on.

00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.120
Right.

00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:53.200
So the train pressed forward into the vast Nebraskan plains, passing famous landmarks like Chimney Rock.

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Chimney cricket.

00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.039
And that was at the end of July.

00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:57.840
Yeah.

00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:04.879
So I asked my my parents after the part one, have I been to Chimney Rock?

00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.360
And they said, Yes, but you were motion sick the entire time.

00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.000
And did you go, did you take me there in a covered wagon?

00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:16.559
Imagine that.

00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.600
They they they said that they thought I was coming down with something, but nope, I was just car sick.

00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:22.399
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.639
It's a lifelong uh, I don't know, affliction problem, we'll call it.

00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:28.080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:35.759
So each milestone um underscored that the Great Plains were nearly behind them and the Rocky Mountains lay be uh ahead.

00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:36.240
Excuse me.

00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:36.720
Yeah.

00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:41.039
So the fate the Sagers, of course, faced one crisis after another.

00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.840
Near Fort Laramie in present-day Wyoming.

00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.120
Yep, young Catherine Sager suffered a horrible accident.

00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:48.720
The this was the nine-year-old.

00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:49.440
The nine-year-old.

00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:49.919
Yeah.

00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:58.080
As she later recounted, she jumped out of the moving wagon, which they often did so they wouldn't have to stop and start.

00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:58.639
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:00.960
Her dress got caught on an axle.

00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:01.600
Oh boy.

00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:09.440
And before the team could halt, one of the heavy wagon wheels ran over her leg, shattering it in multiple places.

00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:10.559
Oh dear.

00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.000
That sounds terrible.

00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:18.159
Now, this type of injury could have easily been fatal via like infection or gangrene.

00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:18.480
Yeah.

00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:23.840
But Catherine's parents and uh fellow travelers sprang into action right away.

00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:29.519
Henry Sager, with no doctor available, set his daughter's broken leg himself.

00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:30.320
Sure.

00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:37.279
So miraculously at Fort Laramie, they did encounter a German-born physician, Dr.

00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:45.440
Dagon, who praised Henry's splinting job and decided to accompany the family to tend to Catherine's injury.

00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:46.320
Like that he came along.

00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:53.759
He's like, hey, uh, it's kind of like in the game I played, they met uh a guy out there and he joined the party, whatever.

00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.039
So yeah, that's kind of funny.

00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:55.440
Okay.

00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:59.679
So Catherine um was confined lying in the wagon for the rest of the trip.

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.240
Could you imagine jostling around with a broken leg like that in a covered wagon?

00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:05.600
That could not have been covered.

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:06.960
How many miles?

00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:07.679
A lot.

00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.759
But, and she had a makeshift cast on, but thanks to Dr.

00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.559
Dagan's care, Catherine avoided infection and slowly did heal.

00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:17.519
That's awesome.

00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:24.399
So by August 1844, the wagon company had crossed the Continental Divide at South Pass in Wyoming.

00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:24.879
Okay.

00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:31.600
So it's the line of highest ground that separates river systems flowing into different oceans.

00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:32.320
Correct.

00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:42.399
So the east side of the divide, rivers like the Missouri, the Mississippi, the Platte would eventually flow into the Atlantic or the Gulf of Mexico.

00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:42.879
Yep.

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:44.480
Um west of the divide.

00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:45.679
The Pacific, yep.

00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.159
Um, yes, rivers like the Snake River, Columbia River would go towards the Pacific.

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:50.639
Exactly.

00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:59.360
So um with the height of the Rockies, obviously come increase of disease.

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.320
An outbreak of camp fever.

00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:05.279
Oh dear.

00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:07.440
Spread throughout throughout the train.

00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.000
What is exactly a camp fever, anyways?

00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:16.240
So it is referring to either typhoid or typhus.

00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:18.399
So they are two different things.

00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:19.919
Sure, but it's something else.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.159
They just refer as a blanket camp fever because yes.

00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:24.799
Gotcha.

00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:29.360
So typhoid is caused by a type of salmonilla bacteria.

00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:30.080
Oh dear.

00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.440
And it is spread by contaminated food or water.

00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:34.080
Okay.

00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.000
Um often due to poor sanitation, that kind of thing.

00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:39.039
Which I can't imagine.

00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.840
Drinking river water is also kind of the bathroom.

00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:43.759
So in a lot of TV, yeah.

00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.399
So it's not like they stopped and dug a latrine every time they stopped or had to go or whatever.

00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.600
So yeah, I get it.

00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:54.639
Um, typhus is another type of bacteria that is spread by body lice.

00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:55.679
Body lice.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:56.639
I didn't know that.

00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:57.279
I didn't know that.

00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:57.519
Yeah.

00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:57.919
Okay.

00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:03.440
So specifically from scratching lice feces into small skin abrasions.

00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:04.159
Oh, boy.

00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:05.039
It's typhus.

00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:06.399
I never I never knew that.

00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:07.200
I didn't either.

00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:07.519
Oh.

00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:08.000
Yeah.

00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:13.600
So camp fever is an all encompassing bacterial infection.

00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:14.639
It's not good.

00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:14.879
Yeah.

00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:15.120
Yeah.

00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:16.159
We'll just say it's not good.

00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:21.279
Henry Sager, the fogger, the fog the fogger, the father, Faja.

00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:29.200
Was among those who fell sick as they descended towards the Green River, and his condition deteriorated rapidly.

00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:30.080
Oh dear.

00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.279
Captain Shaw, the wagon master, and others did what they could, but medicine was also very scarce.

00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:36.000
Of course.

00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:39.759
Catherine, the nine-year-old, was immobilized with a broken leg.

00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:40.240
Yep.

00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:40.799
Shit.

00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:41.600
Excuse me.

00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:48.240
She lay beside her ailing father in the wagon and later recall recalled his last night.

00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:49.039
Oh dear.

00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:57.120
Henry Sager died on August 23rd, 1844, near the Green River in present-day Wyoming, likely from typhoid.

00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:58.960
So the salmonella.

00:15:59.120 --> 00:15:59.679
Yeah.

00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:02.799
Before he passed, he wept over the fate of his family.

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:08.000
He said, quote, his wife was ill, the children small, and one likely to be a cripple.

00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.279
They had no relatives near, and a long journey lay before him.

00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.519
Because he's his journey's.

00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:17.360
He's about to die.

00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.200
Like he's about to dead.

00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:20.480
I did say that.

00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:21.279
I know.

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:25.679
He's about to dead.

00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:27.200
He's about to dead.

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.120
Oh, some of the shit you say is just so great.

00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:32.879
I can't get over it.

00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.240
Some of the things that you've spouted out on this podcast.

00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.080
He's about to dead.

00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:39.440
What the fuck?

00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:41.279
That is so great.

00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.080
That might be a contender for title.

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:47.360
I'm just saying.

00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:49.440
He's about to dead.

00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.399
Thank you for putting that in the notes.

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.799
Otherwise, we forget about it.

00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.360
And then I have to do searching and it's horde.

00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:01.279
So he begged the captain to take charge of them and see them through.

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:02.559
The rest of his family.

00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:02.879
Yeah.

00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:10.000
So Captain uh William Shaw promised to care for the children and honored that vow completely.

00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:11.680
He married his wife.

00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.160
No.

00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:12.960
Okay.

00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:19.039
The company halted to bury Henry in a coffin fashioned from a hollowed-out log.

00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:19.839
Oh, wow.

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.720
And his grave is somewhere by the Green River.

00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.000
Did they mark it at all?

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:24.640
Do you know?

00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.720
So they do sometimes and they don't sometimes.

00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:38.400
So later immigrants or people who've traveled after the Sager family found that wolves or coyotes had disturbed his resting place at one point.

00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.480
Oh, so they dug him up, kind of thing.

00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.759
So it's probably not even there.

00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:42.480
But okay.

00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.400
So now a widow with seven children, one of them an infant, one of them injured.

00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:48.880
Yeah.

00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.200
Naomi Sager pressed on with just devastation.

00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:53.839
Oh, right.

00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:55.519
She just lost her husband.

00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:56.240
And yeah.

00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:57.839
This travel is tough.

00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.559
So and they still had hundreds of miles to cover.

00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:01.279
Sure.

00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:04.880
Do you have so they're in Wyoming right now by the Snake River?

00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.440
Do you know how much further they have?

00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:08.640
Not okay.

00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.680
I can look it up.

00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:10.319
It's fine.

00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:10.559
Okay.

00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.759
I I was just curious if you happen to have something on that, but that's okay.

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.400
So Naomi's own health was fragile.

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:22.880
She had never fully regained regained strength after giving birth and then being knocked unconscious.

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:23.279
Yeah.

00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.200
With potential internal injuries and the strain of driving the wagon and caring for the family alone.

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:30.640
It was it was a lot.

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.200
Sure.

00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.519
Um, so within weeks of Henry's death, Naomi succumbed to illness as well.

00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:36.640
Oh dear.

00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.640
She likely contacted contracted typhoid as well.

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:41.200
As well.

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:41.599
Okay.

00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:42.079
Yep.

00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:43.200
The same fever outbreak.

00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.599
Hey typhoid, can you come get me?

00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.160
I I'm missing my husband and I want to die the same way.

00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:55.039
Jesus.

00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.839
So 1-800 typhoid.

00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:04.799
Or as they would have said, 1-800 camp fever.

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:06.720
1-800 cam fever.

00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:08.079
Wow.

00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:18.480
So with fever, week with fever, Naomi actually became delirious on the trail.

00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:19.440
Oh no.

00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.720
Yeah, in um the Idaho territory.

00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:24.480
She knew she was dying.

00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.160
So in a lucid moment, she called Dr.

00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.960
Dagon to her side and said, take these children to Dr.

00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.920
Whitman's mission in Walla Walla.

00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:37.200
Bing bang.

00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:38.720
Walla walla bing bang.

00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:47.839
So Marcus Whitman's missionary um settlement was in Oregon Country.

00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.680
Oh, so she already knew that?

00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:51.599
Like, did she know this person?

00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.799
So remember I had mentioned that they kind of had guidebooks.

00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:55.680
Yes.

00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:56.160
Yeah.

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.680
So I think this everybody was like headed towards this one particular.

00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:00.400
Thing.

00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:01.839
So they knew Chimney Rock.

00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:03.519
They knew Fort Laramie.

00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.279
And Whitman Mission was just another landmark.

00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:07.599
Yeah.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.240
Gotcha.

00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:08.720
Yeah.

00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.279
So because she's going, husband died already, obviously, dad died.

00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:14.960
I need my kids looked after.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:15.200
Yes.

00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:16.000
Take them to this.

00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:17.759
Because now they're going to be fucking orphans.

00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:18.160
Yes.

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:18.640
That's sad.

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.000
And I will tell you a little bit more about um the Whitmans.

00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:22.559
Of course.

00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.000
Because they actually took in a lot of children and they knew that as well.

00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.119
Well, I mean, this journey was perilous.

00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:29.920
It was.

00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.880
Obviously, the younger you are, the faster you can recover.

00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.279
Right.

00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.519
I mean, even with a broken leg, it sucks.

00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.119
But you know, your body recovers when you're younger quicker.

00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.799
So you had to expect a lot of adults to die on this journey.

00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.599
I mean, it was it wasn't easy.

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.000
No.

00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.920
Even though it sounds like, oh, you're in a wagon going across land.

00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.279
How hard can it be?

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:51.680
Yeah.

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.880
Going up mountains, rivers, crossing rivers, blah, blah, blah.

00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.559
There was it was pretty treacherous.

00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:57.920
So yeah.

00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:03.920
On September 27th, 1844, 26 days after Henry died.

00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:04.559
Jesus.

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.160
Naomi Sager died.

00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.200
That is sad.

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.400
Could you imagine those kids?

00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.200
Seven kids and a fucking infant, no less.

00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.279
I mean, what, two months old, right?

00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:13.680
Yeah.

00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:15.839
Three months old, whatever.

00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:17.359
Give or take.

00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.960
So she said.

00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:24.079
She died near the Snake River, which is close to present-day Twin Falls, Idaho.

00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:24.640
Okay.

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:31.519
According to her children, her final words were a cry to her already deceased husband.

00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:32.240
Sure.

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:38.640
She so maybe a little delirious here at the end, but she said, quote, Oh Henry, if you only knew how we have suffered.

00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:40.480
But he does, he's already dead.

00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:40.960
I know.

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.759
That's what I was thinking.

00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:43.440
I was like, well, he did suffer too.

00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:45.200
But that's what she said.

00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:47.359
So that's what she said.

00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:54.960
Lacking lumber, the wagon party wrapped Naomi in a bed sheet and laid her in a shallow grave on the frontier.

00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.039
Oh, so the coyotes got her.

00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:05.759
Their eldest son, 13-year-old John Sager, made a wooden grave marker with her name and age.

00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.599
It was likely a headboard of some kind, but I don't know for sure.

00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.079
Yeah.

00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.680
So this is one where they did try to write a headboard.

00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:15.119
Headstone?

00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.559
Grape marker.

00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:16.960
Whatever.

00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.759
Headstone.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.559
Headstone?

00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.200
Is that it?

00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:20.160
Yeah.

00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:20.640
Okay.

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.319
Headboard.

00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.480
The sacred what?

00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:25.680
What'd you say?

00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.319
I just find it funny you called it a headboard.

00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.920
Because that's what he made it out of.

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:30.400
I get that.

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.079
Like a bedheadboard.

00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.519
Bed headboard?

00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:34.400
Bed headboard.

00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.279
I hate bedhead.

00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.200
I hate bedheadboards even more.

00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.480
A bedboard.

00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:43.440
Jesus Christ.

00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:44.480
What is wrong with you?

00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.200
I don't know.

00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.319
Your words are making me laugh uncontrollably.

00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.319
Okay, this is serious.

00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:52.880
Death is serious.

00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.039
So the Sager children are now orphans on the Oregon Trail.

00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:02.960
So we got a 13-year-old, we know a nine-year-old, we got a three-month-old and a whole bunch of others in between.

00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:04.799
God damn, that is sad.

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:10.160
So for the remaining journey, the entire wagon train became a surrogate family for that.

00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:10.880
Of course, yeah.

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.519
I mean I would imagine they probably grew pretty close with some of the travelers they were with.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:15.920
Yeah.

00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:24.079
So true to his promise, Captain Shaw took charge of the group, and the um other uh adults also divided responsibilities.

00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.759
That's see, at least they were with at least they weren't on their own.

00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Yeah.

00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.799
You know, because obviously they would have been fucked.

00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.279
Yeah.

00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:36.960
At least they were a part of this big community wagon train to go to Oregon.

00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.640
Did that for you.

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.519
Um, but man, could you imagine if they were on their own?

00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:42.480
They would have been fucked.

00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:42.880
Yeah.

00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:45.599
Because the 13-year-old, I mean, I know times are different.

00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:45.839
Yeah.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.039
This is what almost almost.

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.599
13-year-old, he's he's he's basically a man.

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:50.720
Well, at that point, yeah.

00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.000
Why doesn't he have children already?

00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:52.480
Yeah.

00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.559
But you know, fuck, that that had to be crazy to lose your parents like that.

00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:57.119
Yeah.

00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:57.759
Wow.

00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:03.680
So William Shaw and his wife Sally particularly stepped up as they uh as they promised.

00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:04.160
Yep.

00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:10.400
And they took the older Sayer children into their wagon, seeing to their meals and their care.

00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.079
And another woman fed and tended to baby Rosanna.

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:15.200
Rosanna, that's right.

00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:16.160
I forgot that was a name.

00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.000
Um, and and I believe the Shaws also had two children of their own.

00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:24.799
So they they had a big little company there.

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:25.359
Okay.

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.240
So food a big little company.

00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:30.240
Jesus Christ.

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.559
So food supplies are running low for everyone.

00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:34.960
Yeah.

00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:41.599
Um, the emigrants had run out of flour and other staples, surveyingly mainly on hunted game.

00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:42.160
Okay.

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.279
So the Shaws still shared whatever they had.

00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:45.680
Sure.

00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:55.839
Um, as the wagon train led on, many assumed the baby might not survive to Oregon as and the infant was very sick and frail.

00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:01.119
What do you feed an infant at that time with no breast milk and all that stuff?

00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:06.960
I mean, I know we had formula for our kids, that's what we mainly did.

00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:12.960
Um but like we're talking, what are we 1844 still, right?

00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:13.759
Yeah.

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.160
I don't think they have formula back then.

00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.119
So it's like, what do you what do you feed a baby at that time?

00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:20.079
That's no idea.

00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:20.960
That's crazy.

00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.240
Okay, anyways.

00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:28.559
So in Oct October 1844, the wagon train finally re reached the Whitman mission.

00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.000
Oh, so they're and that's within the Oregon territory.

00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:32.480
Yes.

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:32.960
Okay.

00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.240
And this is in uh the Walla Walla Valley.

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:36.799
Bingo.

00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:37.359
Okay.

00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.839
So the mission station was run by Dr.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.039
Marcus Whitman and his wife Narcissa Whitman.

00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:44.079
Narcissa.

00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.839
She and Harry Potter?

00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.279
Jesus Christ.

00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:53.359
And they were this welcome community on this trail.

00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:54.160
Sure.

00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:57.359
Um, it was founded in 1836 by Dr.

00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:07.839
Marcus Whitman, who was a physician missionary, and his wife Narcissa, both sent by the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions.

00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:08.559
Oh, wow.

00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.680
A Protestant missionary group of New England.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.920
So they were probably with some of the earlier ones there, though, right?

00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:16.400
Okay.

00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:27.440
Their goal was to get convert and civilize the Cayus and the Nez Perse tribes through Christianity, medicine, and education.

00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.480
Fair enough.

00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:29.039
Okay.

00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.559
So it this is like a little tiny frontier village.

00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:32.880
Yeah.

00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.039
Um, there was a main house, which was the home, a school, an infirmary.

00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:37.440
Sure.

00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.279
They had a blacksmith uh for settlers and tribes.

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.599
They had fields and gardens of wheat, corn, potatoes, livestock.

00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:47.759
They had um that mission school.

00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.319
They taught English, religion, and domestic skills.

00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:50.960
Good.

00:26:51.119 --> 00:27:00.000
Um Narcissa ran classes, sang hymns, and taught sewing while Marcus doctored everyone within a hundred mile radius, white emigrants and the Cayus.

00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:00.720
Gotcha.

00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:01.039
Okay.

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:01.599
All right.

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.119
So very, very welcome sight for a lot of people.

00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.799
Oh, I have no, I have no doubt.

00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:15.119
I mean, I'm I can imagine be like, thank fucking god, we got some civilization here, you know, to help out with certain things, whatever.

00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:17.440
Yeah, that had to be a relief for some of these people.

00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.799
So how did you like your wine?

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:20.079
I see you're it's empty.

00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:20.640
It was good.

00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:21.440
Yeah, you liked it?

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.000
Yeah, I did.

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:22.319
Good.

00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.720
It was I'm I've had Pinot Grigio before.

00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:29.200
Um, I again, as we've talked about the last time we had wine, I'm not a big wine person.

00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:29.680
Yeah.

00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.119
Um, but no, it was good.

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:31.920
It's something different.

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.559
It's certainly uh a nice little change that we did the last couple times we did it.

00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:37.759
But um, no, it was good.

00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.759
Um I'm excited to have the 14 hands soft block we got too.

00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.079
Yeah.

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.359
Um, whether we do it on this episode or afterwards, maybe.

00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:50.559
Um we'll we'll force some to Nathan because he's a big wine guy, and I'm just kidding.

00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:51.440
He's really not.

00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:52.240
Not at all.

00:27:52.640 --> 00:28:03.039
Okay, so the Shaws honoring Naomi's dying wish appealed to the Whitmans to take care of the Sager orphans, at least for the winter.

00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:04.799
Because we're in October now.

00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:06.960
Yeah, I mean, obviously, winter's upon you.

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.960
Yeah, and I don't know what Oregon is like in the winter, but I have no idea.

00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.160
Yeah, um, especially back in the 1840s, because you know, global warming.

00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:15.039
I'm just kidding.

00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.839
Anyways, at first there was some hesitation.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.599
Marcus and Narcissa Whitman had already opened their home to other orphans and displaced children.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.200
They're probably like pretty full on.

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:26.000
Yeah, exactly.

00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:31.359
So Narcissa actually had lost her own biological child in 1839.

00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:32.799
There's seven more.

00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.960
Yeah, so she she had a compassionate heart for children in need.

00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:37.599
Of course.

00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.759
I mean, that's that's tough, obviously, to lose a child.

00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.599
I couldn't I couldn't fucking imagine it.

00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.279
And she was immediately drawn to baby Rosanna.

00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.400
Well, that's good because she probably needs the most care.

00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.440
And she asked to adopt her as well.

00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.400
Like that's how who should who did she ask?

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:57.359
I don't know.

00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:58.559
Like, who would you ask?

00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:00.000
Just fucking adopt her.

00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.839
The other kids are probably not gonna say anything.

00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:04.640
No, you shall not adopt my sister.

00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:13.039
So Marcus Whitman was inclined to take in the two uh Sager boys as he saw value in Well, work and yeah, exactly.

00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:14.079
Work around the mission.

00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:14.559
Yep.

00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:22.720
However, Captain Shaw, the wagon master, firmly insisted that the siblings not be separated.

00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:23.440
Good for him.

00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.880
After all that they had endured.

00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:25.680
Oh, fuck yeah.

00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:26.960
Yeah, lost good man.

00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:28.400
Both parents on this trip.

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.119
Yeah, they're the last of their family.

00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.680
I mean, I they might have relatives somewhere, whatever.

00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.359
But yeah, don't fucking split them up.

00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:36.480
Like, no, um, let's go.

00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:37.599
I'm just gonna take the baby.

00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.039
I'm gonna uh the wife's taking that, and I'm taking those two guys right there.

00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.680
Right, right, right.

00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:43.039
Rest of you go fuck off.

00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.839
Yeah, it's like no, keep them all together, they're fucking family.

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.680
Yeah, I hate when that shit happens.

00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.359
So he reportedly made Dr.

00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.160
Whitman sign a contract to keep all seven children.

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.039
That's fantastic.

00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:54.559
Good for at least through the winter.

00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:57.359
Shaw is like good on Shaw for that.

00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:58.160
Fuck you.

00:29:58.240 --> 00:29:59.119
Yeah, that's great.

00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:01.759
So the Whitmans agreed, thus the Sager children.

00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:04.559
I'm gonna name them off John, Frank.

00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.680
Is this in order?

00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:06.160
Mm-hmm.

00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.440
Okay John is the oldest.

00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:07.680
Yeah.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:13.839
John, Frank, Catherine, Elizabeth, Matilda, Louise, and baby Rosanna.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:14.480
Louisi?

00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:15.279
Louisa.

00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.240
Louisa, okay.

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:20.319
And baby Rosanna found a new home under the Whitman's roof in 1844.

00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.559
October still, right?

00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:23.200
Yes.

00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:23.680
Okay.

00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:25.359
Yes, that's right.

00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.680
That's a lot of that's a lot of kids.

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.279
Well, so they Narcissa, right?

00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:31.680
Mm-hmm.

00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.799
Lost a child.

00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:34.160
Her own child, yes.

00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:35.200
Only one?

00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:36.079
I believe so.

00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:36.559
Okay.

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.440
So, but yet obviously they took in other orphans.

00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:40.000
Yes.

00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.519
Were they all living under the same roof at this point, as far as you know, or no?

00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:44.880
You're not sure.

00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:45.359
Okay.

00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:49.599
This is a fairly large community.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:50.160
Yeah.

00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:56.880
So I'm not sure if it's a big house or if there's little tiny things here and there to create a little community.

00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:58.240
I'm not 100% sure.

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.160
Which would make more sense, in my opinion, being the little things, you know, spread around.

00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:06.559
But like, could you imagine going to from what's his name?

00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:07.039
Martin?

00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.640
Martin and Narcissa?

00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:09.680
Henry.

00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:10.720
Henry, I'm sorry.

00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.559
Oh, Narcissa and uh Marcus.

00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:12.880
Marcus.

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:13.599
Marcus.

00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:14.640
The Whitmans, yeah.

00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:15.039
Marcus.

00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:16.640
I don't know why I said I thought Martin.

00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.119
But like going from, hey, what do you want to do tonight?

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:20.720
Hey, we got seven kids.

00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:22.960
Yeah, that's uh holy balls.

00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:25.039
That's I was good with one.

00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:26.799
Love you, Vesper.

00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:33.200
So at the Whitman Mission, yeah, the seven Sager children began a new chapter under the care of Dr.

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:35.680
Marcus Whitman and Narcissa Whitman.

00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:36.079
Yeah.

00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.839
The Whitman's outpost was established in 1836.

00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.640
So not that long, not that earlier, yeah.

00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:50.799
Um, and it served both as a Christian mission to the local Cayuse Indians and as an unofficial way station for the emigrants.

00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:51.440
Correct.

00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.519
So sorry to interrupt.

00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.440
Um, how much further past this mission did people go?

00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.039
I think at this point it was wherever you want.

00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:09.440
Because again, if correct me if I'm wrong on this number, but like they were promised 640 acres.

00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:10.799
Yeah, it was a lot.

00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.039
So, like, go that way.

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:17.119
Whether or not they took all 640 per per per person or whatever perfectly.

00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:18.880
Per family or whatever, I'm not sure.

00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:19.839
Doesn't matter, yeah.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.559
But like, so basically they're in Oregon now.

00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:26.720
Yes, this is the territory, yes, because obviously it wasn't a state or anything at this point.

00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:27.680
Yes.

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:29.680
Go that way, you'll find your acres.

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.079
Go that way, you'll find your acres, kind of thing, right?

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:33.519
I mean so okay.

00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.960
Anyway, sorry, continue.

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:43.680
Um, so by the time the Sagers arrived in October 5th of 1844, Narcissa was in her early 30s.

00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.079
Oh, oh, so they were pretty young.

00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.039
Yeah, and so she was actually kind of considered like the frontier foster mother.

00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:51.759
Sure.

00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:58.799
Um, as I told you this the before, they often had orphan children and other stranded children.

00:32:59.119 --> 00:32:59.440
Sure.

00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:00.240
Yes.

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:05.440
So Narcissa was very kind, but she was strict.

00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.839
Well, you kind of needed to be back then, especially with a lot of youngins.

00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:17.519
So she and Marcus took the Sager orphans into their large mission house and adding to their already full household.

00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:17.920
Yep.

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:27.039
Narcissa once wrote, quote, our little place is a resting spot for many a wary, way-worn traveler, and we'll be as long as we live here.

00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.680
In the months after the Sager's arrival, the Whitmans grew attached to them.

00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:32.240
Oh, good.

00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:40.799
And by July of 1845, Marcus had obtained legal custody to adopt all seven Sager children.

00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:41.519
Oh, cool.

00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.359
Ensuring that they would not be split up.

00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:44.319
Yeah, that's awesome.

00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:44.960
Yeah, it is.

00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:48.720
I'm so glad Shaw put that notion into his brain, too.

00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:50.640
There is a little caveat with this.

00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:51.599
I'm sure there is.

00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:52.720
There always fucking is.

00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.839
Fucking caveat.

00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:55.359
God damn, I hit my microphone.

00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.119
Fucking caveats, am I right?

00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.559
They actually changed Rosanna, the baby Rosanna's name.

00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:02.720
Why?

00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.000
I will tell you.

00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.759
They changed her name from Rosanna to Henrietta Naomi.

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.639
Her parents Henry and Naomi.

00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:14.320
I thought that was kind of sweet.

00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.239
Even though I probably would have just kept the child's name as that's what they wanted to name her.

00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:20.639
Yeah, but but I see it both sides.

00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:22.559
Yes, I see both sides as well.

00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:24.639
It's a nice honoring of the parents.

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:25.039
Yes.

00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:27.039
Because obviously they're gone.

00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:27.360
Yes.

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.079
They lost their the children lost their parents.

00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.199
Even though they're not the children aren't the one that renamed her.

00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:33.679
Yeah.

00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:35.920
But the kid's not going to remember Rosanna.

00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:36.480
Yeah.

00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:37.599
That's fair.

00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.559
So uh so you said Henrietta what?

00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:41.360
Naomi.

00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:42.559
Henrietta Naomi.

00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:42.880
Okay.

00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:44.239
Henrietta for Henry.

00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:44.559
Yeah.

00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:45.440
Obviously, yeah.

00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:45.920
Yeah, yeah.

00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.760
That that's kind of cute that they did that just to honor the parents.

00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.840
But I feel like at that point she was already uh so at this point she was, yeah, at least yeah.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.920
Oh but I don't know, I don't know when they changed her name.

00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.320
Sure.

00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:02.320
Which maybe at adoption, I don't know.

00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.199
It could have been three months prior, it could have been six months prior, whatever.

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.000
It doesn't matter.

00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.000
I think that's inconsequential.

00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.639
I understand both sides of it, keeping the name, yeah, honoring the parents, whatever.

00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:14.000
I'm good, I'm good with it.

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:18.559
So each child actually began to call the Whitman's Ma and Pa.

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:19.679
Oh, yeah.

00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.559
You know it's official when they call them Ma and Pa.

00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.480
Yeah, so they were they were all happy.

00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:24.960
Good.

00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:32.719
So life at the mission between 1844 and 1847 offered the orphans regular meals, schooling, and church.

00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:41.679
Um, the older children helped with farm chores, tending crops and animals, while the younger ones learned to read and write in Narcissus school.

00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:42.559
Oh, cool.

00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:43.199
So Dr.

00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.679
Whitman was both a physician and a farmer.

00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:46.079
Yep.

00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:51.599
He expected everyone to work diligently and he provided medical care to natives and settlers alike.

00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:52.079
Sure.

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.920
Narcissa, for her part, enforced strict household discipline and religious instruction.

00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:58.480
Okay.

00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.400
I mean, that was the time, yeah.

00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:03.840
The the strictness did not set well with all the children.

00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:04.800
Sure, of course not.

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:05.840
They're children.

00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:06.400
Yeah.

00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:11.039
At this time, 14-year-old uh Francis or Frank Sager, he was the second oldest.

00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:11.599
Yes.

00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:24.800
Um, he kind of balked at the rules and unused to the Whitman's stern Protestant regimen, he actually ran away from the mission for a time to join settlers in the valley.

00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:25.519
Oh boy.

00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.400
He did eventually return, but he was very clear that he was unhappy with the Whitman's authority.

00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.239
Not with living with him, just the authority.

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.480
I didn't like I don't like your tone of the rules.

00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.280
I don't like the rules.

00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:35.599
Yeah.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.079
Yeah.

00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:37.679
Ease up.

00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:52.480
So afterwards, um, at the mission, um, excuse me, not afterwards, other wards at the mission, a mixed don't make fun of me.

00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:57.679
I'm not this was really funny, and I don't afterwards, other wards.

00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:00.559
That is so fucking great.

00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:01.840
I I can read.

00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:03.760
I'm sorry.

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.199
You're goofy.

00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.760
I need another beer.

00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:08.960
Oh dear.

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.280
Um, I have a I have a breaking point if we need to get.

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:15.039
Let's take a pick that up.

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:15.599
So let me know.

00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:18.079
So other wards of the mission.

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.760
There was a mixed native teen named Joe Lewis.

00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:28.079
He also left on bad terms, and he would actually play a dark role in an upcoming story.

00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:29.199
Oh dear.

00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.840
So he left on bad terms from the Whitmans?

00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:32.320
Yes.

00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:33.039
Oh, fuck.

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:33.280
Okay.

00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:39.679
So still by spring of 1847, Narcissa Whitman wrote fondly of having 11 children in her home.

00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:40.400
Holy shit.

00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:47.360
The Sagers plus adopts other adopted kids, and now their voices make our house lively, as she had noted in her letters.

00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:56.960
A lot of fucking voices, so the Sager girl Sager girls in particular grew close to Narcissa and assisted her daily.

00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:58.960
Yes.

00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.119
They kept the name Sager?

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:02.400
Yes, I believe so.

00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:02.800
Okay.

00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:04.880
I was just curious because they did.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.480
Obviously, they more or less adopted them.

00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:09.199
Yes.

00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.880
A lot of times they'll take on those names of the adopters.

00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:13.360
You're right.

00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:13.599
Yeah.

00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:15.280
I believe they kept Sager.

00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:15.840
Okay.

00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.840
I I kind of I'm glad that they did.

00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:18.320
Yeah.

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.280
Because also honoring the family.

00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:22.000
Right?

00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:22.960
Yeah, exactly.

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:25.360
So what what they did with baby Rosanna.

00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:25.599
Yeah.

00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:26.159
Yeah.

00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.920
Which, you know, let's change your name.

00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:31.199
As I said, so the Sager girls were actually pretty fond of Narcissa.

00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:31.920
Okay.

00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:38.000
Um they later defended her memory as a loving but firm guardian.

00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:39.760
So she dies.

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:41.440
Eventually.

00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:42.639
I know.

00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:43.840
Calm down.

00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:48.639
Meanwhile, the Whitman the Whitman's mission.

00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:50.960
Took a dark turn.

00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:54.800
Their relations with the Cayus tribe were deteriorating.

00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:55.519
How so?

00:38:56.239 --> 00:39:00.159
On that note, we are gonna take a brief break so you can get another beverage.

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.119
We'll be right back.

00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:06.880
And we're back.

00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.159
I kind of want to leave that in.

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.760
That was pretty funny.

00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:21.440
Okay, so like I said, um the Whitman's mission, their relationship with the local Cayuse tribe were starting to deteriorate.

00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.679
I've never heard of the Cayuse tribe before.

00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.519
I hadn't either until this story.

00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:34.239
Okay, so I mean, I'm not from the Pacific Northwest, obviously, so and I am very, very little part Native American.

00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:35.440
Chippoah.

00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.480
Um I've told you this before.

00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.159
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot your memory sucks.

00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.440
But I've I've never heard of the Cayuse, right?

00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:46.320
Cayuse term.

00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:46.559
Yeah.

00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.239
I'm I'm not familiar not not like I'm fucking all about all the different tribes.

00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.159
Again, I am very, very little Chippewa.

00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.960
But um like one sixty fourth.

00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.320
If if that even, who knows?

00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.559
I I gotta ask my mom again.

00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:06.079
She'll she'll remember.

00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.239
I'll see her on Thanksgiving.

00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:14.159
I should ask her again, just be like, who the fuck was the a Native American in our in our family?

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.199
Because I always forget, was it on my mom's side, my dad's?

00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:25.039
I'm pretty sure it was on my mom's side, because my dad, his parents again, mystery mom died early.

00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.719
I'm pretty sure it was on my mom's side.

00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.719
So I have I have to ask that again.

00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:35.519
Um, but I know a decent amount of tribes throughout the states, just from school and whatever.

00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.159
I've never heard of the Cayuse tribe before.

00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:39.679
So Pacific Northwest.

00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:40.079
All right.

00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:40.639
Yeah.

00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.920
So initially the Cayus had welcomed the missionaries.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:50.559
They had helped the Whitmans build the mission and even celebrated the birth of the Whitman's baby in 37 before the baby died.

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:51.280
Correct.

00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:58.800
Um, but over the the years, cultural tensions and misunderstandings started to fray this relationship.

00:40:59.039 --> 00:40:59.519
I can see that.

00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:00.239
Absolutely.

00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:01.119
Yep, yep.

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:05.039
Do you know what the Whitman's child was named before?

00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:05.920
I do not.

00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:06.400
Okay.

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:13.840
So the Whitmans expected the Cayus to convert to Christianity and adopt farming, which a few did.

00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:18.000
Oh, I'm sure a few did because they saw the benefits of farming.

00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:18.480
Yeah.

00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:25.039
But like it's this is funny because, like, hey, um, religion, get it.

00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:26.719
Yeah, just start believing.

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:32.800
So, like, we got our own gods and beliefs and whatever the fuck it might be.

00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:33.440
No.

00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:34.719
Yeah.

00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:45.679
So the Cayus, for their part, expected payment for their use of their land and viewed the steady arrival of white settlers as their concern.

00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:46.639
Sure.

00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:56.320
So Marcus Whitman himself became more focused on aiding American settlers rather than this the Cayuse Ministry by the 1840s.

00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:56.639
Sure.

00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.039
He was an outspoken advocate for U.S.

00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:00.960
expansion into Oregon.

00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.039
Promises were broken.

00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:12.480
For example, the Cayuse leaders believed that Whitman had promised to compensate them for the mission site, but Whitman refused to pay rent or honor Cayuse ownership of the land.

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:14.239
See, that seems like a dick move.

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.480
And that's obviously a lot of resentment there.

00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:17.599
Yeah, for sure.

00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.760
Because to them, this is our land.

00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.960
You white folk just came in.

00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.840
We helped you build it.

00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.679
The white coming in.

00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.960
We we aided you in building this mission.

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.440
Uh, we we want something for that.

00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:38.320
So yeah, I can see why they would be a little what the fuck resentful, yeah.

00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:39.360
Yeah, okay.

00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.000
So the Cayus also observed that Dr.

00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:46.719
Whitman's medical care seemed to favor the white immigrants.

00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.679
Well, I mean, sure, I get that.

00:42:49.840 --> 00:43:09.440
So Whitman sometimes turned Cayuse families away from the mistress house to avoid disruption, providing the medicine outside, which the Cayuse pre-served as disrespectful, perceived, perceived, perceived, as disrespectful and unequal treatment.

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.559
Basically, they wouldn't invite them into their house to give them the care.

00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:12.960
Yes.

00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:14.559
Like, you know, see that wall?

00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:15.840
We'll we'll do it outside though.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:16.639
Yeah, exactly.

00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:18.239
See, that's kind of shitty.

00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:18.559
Yeah.

00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:21.840
Because again, you're all supposed to be humans.

00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:23.840
Christian humans.

00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:25.920
Doesn't even matter what religion at this point.

00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:27.039
They're all human.

00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:27.840
Yeah.

00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:34.079
Give them the same respect as you give the other human that just happened to be a different skin color.

00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:34.400
Right.

00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:36.159
I mean, seriously, fuck off.

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.440
So there was a little bit of religious rivalry.

00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:39.840
Yep.

00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.199
Um, Catholic missionaries, the Jesuits, um, had gained favor with some Cayus.

00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:47.280
We talked about the Jesuits before.

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:52.000
And that made the Whitmans, which were staunch Protestants, feel undermined.

00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:52.639
Right.

00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.400
So Marcus Whitman reacted by preaching Hellfire to the Cairus.

00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.280
Hellfire?

00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:58.239
Hellfire.

00:43:58.400 --> 00:43:59.440
What did I say?

00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.159
I I was just confirming you said Hellfire.

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:06.480
Further straining trust.

00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:07.039
Okay.

00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.800
So the flashpoint came with the measles epidemic in 1847.

00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:14.079
Oh shit.

00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:21.119
In the fall of that year, a wagon train from the east inadvertently brought measles into the region.

00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:21.920
Oh dear.

00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:23.199
I know, I know, I know.

00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.679
And especially with the natives who had the the they're all new, they're all new to that.

00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:36.000
They had zero immunity to a lot of um diseases.

00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:38.880
Yeah, I was thinking of an additional word to that.

00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:40.159
Communicable.

00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.280
You say that again.

00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:44.480
Communicable.

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.239
We'll just say to the white man disease, obviously.

00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:54.639
Because over the course of a lot of things, people think we slaughtered all these Native Americans.

00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.599
A lot of it was disease, unfortunately.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.440
I'm not saying we didn't do terrible things to Native Americans.

00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:03.679
I'm just kidding.

00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:09.920
Um a lot of it was disease because they just this is all new shit to them.

00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:10.400
Yeah.

00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:13.119
And they had no immunity to any of this.

00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:19.920
So what what do measles what are obviously we have different medication now?

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.039
I see you're clicking already to answer my question.

00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:29.760
What back then, especially, if you can determine that, what did measles do to these people?

00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.719
So in 1847, there's no vaccines, there's no antibiotics.

00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:35.039
Correct.

00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:38.320
We're talking high fever, often 104 degrees or higher.

00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:39.519
And this is from measles.

00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:39.840
Yes.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:40.159
Okay.

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:49.599
Coughing fit, um, red, watery, painful eyes, running nose, full body rash, oh shit, severe diarrhea, pneumonia.

00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:51.920
Why did I think this was like chicken pox?

00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:52.800
I don't know.

00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:56.000
Because measles sound like chicken pox, I guess.

00:45:56.320 --> 00:46:01.280
We they can measles can also destroy the cornea, resulting in blindness.

00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:05.039
And encephalitis, which is brain swelling.

00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:06.559
Oh shit.

00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:07.519
What?

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.280
So the reason why measles are not much of a thing is because we have a vaccination.

00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.679
Vaccine, but there there are still cases.

00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.800
Oh, I'm I'm sure there are, obviously.

00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:24.239
But um, holy shit, control your destroy your corneas.

00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:25.519
I know, I didn't know that.

00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:26.079
I had no idea.

00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:33.679
That sounds like an exponentially worse version of chicken pox.

00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:38.000
As of November 18th, 2025.

00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:38.800
Yeah.

00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.719
The CDC a couple days ago.

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.119
Yeah.

00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:49.280
The CDC reports 1700 confirmed measle cases in the US.

00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:51.599
For this calendar year?

00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:52.239
Yes.

00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.679
Holy shit.

00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:55.280
Wow.

00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:00.639
But we obviously have a lot different medicine than we did 180 years ago.

00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:01.840
We for sure did.

00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:03.039
For sure do.

00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:03.679
Okay.

00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:04.320
Okay.

00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:06.000
So I was just curious.

00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:06.400
Sorry.

00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:07.119
Oh, for sure.

00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.079
I I I I know of measles, obviously.

00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:10.880
Obviously.

00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:18.000
I never knew exactly what it did because honestly, in our lifetime, I'm not saying it's not a big thing.

00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:24.480
I feel like measles is like a multiple of measles, and I think that's what I thought chicken pox.

00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:24.800
Sure.

00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.880
I thought it was meat like bumps all over the bottom.

00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:28.400
I I get it.

00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.719
I had no idea, because again, medicine today, a lot different.

00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:33.519
Yeah.

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.480
Clearly, there's case 1700s, you said.

00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:45.440
Um, but most of us, you know, obviously, we get the vaccinations and so on, whatever, and and we have modern modern medicine today.

00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.760
I had no idea it would do all that shit.

00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:48.960
That's fucking crazy.

00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.199
Okay, could could you imagine getting that though?

00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:53.920
In the 18 1847 is where we're right.

00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:59.840
Okay, so measle epidemic of 1847.

00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.400
Okay.

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:03.920
Um, a wagon train brought in this disease.

00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:06.719
So, how do you think they got the?

00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.519
I'm you're fine, you're fine, you're fine.

00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:10.800
Ask your question.

00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.880
How do you think they got that?

00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.639
Like, because they're on the road.

00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:19.280
How was it like how is it spread?

00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.440
Yeah, because they're on the road.

00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:28.880
They obviously started in independence or whatever the other one that the Sagers did and came on their way.

00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:30.719
How how would they contract?

00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.719
Like, how do you contract the measles?

00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.280
Yeah, is it purely uh spreading to another person?

00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:43.119
Can it manifest into a person's body, I guess?

00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:48.159
It sir, it evolved from a cattle virus, really?

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:50.960
Oh shit.

00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:56.559
This it jumped from animals to humans around the sixth century BCE.

00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.719
Oh shit, it's been around for fucking 2600 years.

00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:02.320
Holy shit.

00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:03.119
Okay.

00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:04.000
Wow.

00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:10.800
So could they have contracted that from their cattle oxen on the way to Oregon?

00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:12.480
That's what I would assume.

00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:25.760
But get this, it can only persist in populations of 250,000 plus people because it needs a constant supply of new unimmune hosts.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:26.880
That's wild.

00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:32.880
So, how many Cayuse natives are there if it has to have that many populations?

00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:35.119
Okay, I understand that question.

00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:36.960
Science people, please email us.

00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.159
I understand that question.

00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:46.320
However, if they're bringing it into these Caiuse people, though, they could have spread to the Cayuse people, they didn't need that much.

00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:49.679
How did the people who brought it in get it?

00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:50.559
That's wild.

00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.320
It must have been from their cattle then, had to been, right?

00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.760
But either way, that's that's crazy to think about.

00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:58.719
That okay.

00:49:58.800 --> 00:49:59.440
Listen to this.

00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:06.960
Yeah, the first detailed account of measles comes from the 10th century Persian physician Razez.

00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:08.000
I'm so sorry.

00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:08.880
That's all right.

00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:14.239
He distinguished measles from smallpox.

00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:17.119
I'm thinking chicken pox, not smallpox.

00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:18.239
Smallpox, yeah.

00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:18.559
Okay.

00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:19.599
Wow.

00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:24.880
So it was obviously a variation, not a variation, but uh uh difference, obviously.

00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:25.760
Yeah, okay.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:26.800
That's so fucking wild.

00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:27.199
Sorry, sorry.

00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:27.920
No, that's okay.

00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:36.159
Didn't mean it as a real measles along with its infection of cholera, because that's also a thing, remember the last episode.

00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.280
Every time, and I I might have mentioned this last one.

00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:44.719
Every time I hear cholera, I just think of the it's either a book or a movie, Love in the Time of Cholera.

00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:46.079
Yeah, I think so.

00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:49.280
So why can't get get that out of my brain?

00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:58.880
I mean, this these two deadly infections or illnesses, whatever, yeah, are so deadly without immunity.

00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:00.239
So yeah.

00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:06.000
So in this area, measles spread among the Cause Indians who had no prior exposure to it.

00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:06.800
Of course not.

00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:08.559
The result was catastrophic.

00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:08.800
Yep.

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:15.360
The Cayus family fell ill, um, and half or more of the Caillus children died in a matter of weeks.

00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:16.400
Oh shit.

00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:17.440
So Dr.

00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:26.400
Whitman cared for both the Cayus and the white patients, but while many of the mission's white children, including the Sagers, recovered from the measles, the Cayus.

00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:30.320
So they're like, what the fuck, dude?

00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:32.960
You're giving them good medication and must not?

00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:33.599
Exactly.

00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:44.000
So the tragic outfit outcome fed a suspicion among the Cayus that Whitman, the medicine man, might be deliberately poisoning them or using supernatural means against them.

00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:48.880
So do they have any explanation as to why the white man?

00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:57.440
I think it was just a little bit of racism, probably, even that early.

00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:07.679
I I I want to say there's nothing that I have read that said said he is purposefully working on the white man versus the Cayus.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:08.320
Okay.

00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.519
It just happened to be he's working more on with the white man than the Cayus.

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.840
So I think there's some prejudice there.

00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:17.679
I don't know.

00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:22.000
I'd rather just call it prejudice than racism because I I don't either way.

00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:22.480
Anyways.

00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:23.679
Okay, prejudice.

00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:25.360
There probably was some prejudice.

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:26.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:27.440
Um, but I don't know for sure.

00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:28.159
That's okay.

00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:28.880
Yeah.

00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:42.719
So in their worldview, it was inconceivable that Whitman's medicine would heal white children but fail Cayus children unless there was malice or witchcraft at play.

00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:43.519
Witchcraft.

00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.679
The environment at the mission grew really tense and fearful.

00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:48.000
Yeah.

00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:58.880
Narcissa Whiteman, while nursing sick children, wrote of hearing wailing from the Cayus camps as one child after another was buried.

00:52:59.119 --> 00:52:59.760
Oh boy.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:09.840
Some Cayus men confronted Marcus Whitman about the deaths, and rumors circulated that Whitman had was giving tainted medicine to the natives.

00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:23.440
By late November 1847, a faction of the Cayus, grieving and convinced that expelling or killing Whitman was the only way to stop the sickness, oh boy, resolved to act.

00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:32.880
Now, do you remember that mixed native kid I had mentioned earlier, Joe Lewis, who um fled the Whitmans?

00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:45.840
Yes, he allegedly added a little bit more fuel to the fire by telling the Cayus that Whitman had intentionally was intentionally killing them to free the land for settlers.

00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:48.559
So now we're talking about Hirosang.

00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:51.280
Or straight-up lies.

00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:52.320
We don't know.

00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.199
That's kind of a dick move, Joe Lewis.

00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.719
Um that's a dick move, Joe Lewis.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:03.440
That could be a title.

00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.920
Um that's a dick move, Joe Lewis.

00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:09.119
Okay, let me explain what I mean.

00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:11.199
I'm not saying he's wrong.

00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.960
I'm not saying he's right, but he has no fucking idea.

00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:18.400
Am I wrong?

00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:20.239
No.

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.320
He probably made that shit up.

00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:24.320
He's the one who wanted to run away.

00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:26.320
Also, this wine is so good.

00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:27.199
So good.

00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:28.800
And it's so gone.

00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.840
I brought him Modello as a backup.

00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:33.119
I I know.

00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:37.599
Yeah, as far as I know, Joe Lewis knew nothing.

00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:41.360
He just is like, I don't want to be with the Whitmans.

00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:47.920
I'm gonna fuck them up here by saying this to these uh Cayus that I know.

00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:50.719
Okay, continue.

00:54:51.199 --> 00:55:03.119
So on the afternoon of November 29th, yeah, 1847, the tension that had been simmering for months at the Whitman mission finally exploded into a fight.

00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:03.840
Violence.

00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:04.400
Yeah.

00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:04.800
Yeah.

00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:11.599
A group of Cayus warriors arrived under what appeared to be peaceful intentions.

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:14.480
Well, the you can't infiltrate if you don't.

00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.280
If you're not in a Trojan horse first.

00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:17.920
Yeah.

00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:19.599
It's their Trojan horse.

00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:21.519
So several asked Dr.

00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:30.239
Marcus Witness Whitman for medicine, um, something that they had done many times during the measles epidemic, seeping through their tribe.

00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:31.440
Seeping.

00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:34.880
Once inside the home, yeah, everything changed.

00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:35.519
Oh boy.

00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:44.000
As Marcus bent over one of the quote unquote ill men, the warrior suddenly attacked with tomahawks and guns.

00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:45.119
Oh boy.

00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:45.599
Dr.

00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:47.360
Whitman was struck in the head.

00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:48.239
Oh shit.

00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:49.519
It was a fatal blow.

00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:50.079
Yeah.

00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.159
Before he even had time to react.

00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:52.639
Sure.

00:55:52.800 --> 00:56:02.000
Narcissa Whitman, hearing the commotion, tried to reach him, but she was shot, wounded, and then beaten until she also died.

00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:03.440
Good lord.

00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:10.079
Their deaths marked the beginning of a coordinated assault on the entire mission community.

00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:16.400
Well, and it they're fucked because they were the people running the shit.

00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.719
So it's like, who do you go to next?

00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:26.400
And now they're gonna attack other people within the mission because they think they're all in cahoots against the Cayuza?

00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:27.199
Cayus.

00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:28.000
Cayuse.

00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:36.480
So, yes, over the next day and a half, the attackers moved from building to building, killing nearly every adult male on the grounds.

00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:37.519
Oh fuck.

00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:45.280
Panic swept through the mission as settlers barricaded doors, hidden cellars, or attempted desperate escapes into the open fields.

00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.000
In total, 14 people were killed during the massacre.

00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:50.960
Oh boy.

00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:56.239
Including the Whitmans and several of the immigrants who had been living or working at the mission.

00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:00.159
Now among the victims.

00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:01.440
Emigrants?

00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:02.639
Yes.

00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:03.920
Among the victims.

00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:04.239
Yeah.

00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:06.719
The two eldest Sager boys.

00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:07.599
Oh no.

00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:08.239
Really?

00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.159
I mean, there were men, so yeah.

00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:10.480
Okay.

00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.239
They survived the Oregon Trail only to die here.

00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:16.239
John Sager was 16.

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:17.039
Oh fuck.

00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:23.440
He was reportedly shot as he fled, then hacked to death as he tried to crawl away.

00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:24.880
How awful.

00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:25.920
How brutal.

00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.559
Frank Sager was 14.

00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:33.440
He survived the first day, but was discovered on the second and killed.

00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:38.719
He was potentially hiding or trying to reach his injured mother, Whitman.

00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:39.599
Not sure.

00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:40.400
Wow.

00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:41.360
That's sad.

00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:46.480
Another youth, a teenage boy the Whitmans had adopted, was murdered as well.

00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:54.400
Most of the mission laborers, many of them seasoned frontiersmen or hire hired settlers, were also killed during the assault.

00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:54.960
Yeah.

00:57:55.360 --> 00:58:01.840
One man did manage to break away on horseback and ride to ride for help toward Fort Walla Walla.

00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:02.880
Bing bang.

00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:07.199
But while trying to escape his pursuers, he drowned in a river.

00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:08.239
Oh fuck.

00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:12.159
So he became the 14th victim, counted after the fact.

00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:15.119
I mean, he Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:15.440
Yeah.

00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:16.079
Semantics.

00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:22.800
So in the aftermath of the massacre, and this is historically called the Whitman Mission Massacre.

00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:24.480
Oh, is that what it's referred to?

00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:24.960
Okay.

00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:25.679
Wow.

00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:32.320
The Cayus held about 50 survivors captive, mostly women and children who had been spared.

00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:35.599
The Cayuse did not initially harm the women and smaller children.

00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:36.719
Not initially.

00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:54.239
The four Sager girls, Catherine, who was 12, Elizabeth 10, Matilda 8, and Henrietta, the baby, who is now three, survived the assault, though they witnessed a whole lot of unspeakable acts.

00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:55.519
I'm sure.

00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.000
Narcissa died in front of them.

00:58:58.159 --> 00:58:58.800
Oh fuck.

00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:04.159
The girls, along with other children, were kept as prisoners for the next month.

00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:05.199
Oh boy.

00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:13.519
They huddled in the records of the mission through late November and into December 1847, unsure if they would be killed or spared.

00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:14.239
Sure.

00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:21.280
The conditions were dire, food was scarce, winter weather was setting in, and many of the children were sick with measles.

00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:22.559
Oh boy.

00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:36.320
Um, Louisa Sager, who is six, she had already been weakened by the epidemic, did die of measles during the captivity five days after the massacre started.

00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:38.639
Goddamn that's sad.

00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:40.320
Wow.

00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:40.880
Okay.

00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:46.079
In the chaos of the attack, Louisa had been overlooked and left in an exposed area.

00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:53.519
One later account suggests that she died from neglect and illness before ever anyone realized that she was actually that ill.

00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:54.079
Right.

00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:54.400
Yeah.

00:59:55.840 --> 00:59:59.199
So their surviving sisters now lost another sibling.

00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:04.400
Oh but During this hostage period, the Sager girls clung to each other.

01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:05.440
Sure, yeah.

01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:06.480
That's all they had.

01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:11.119
Elizabeth Sager at 10 later gave an eyewitness account of those weeks.

01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:21.920
She described how she and others hid in a straw sack at night to keep out of the cold wind, digging a little hollow and covering it with a blanket to form a makeshift shelter.

01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:22.800
Good lord.

01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:26.559
She also recalled witnessing acts of brutality during captivity.

01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:32.400
At one point, she saw a Cayus leader execute two of the captive men in front of the survivors.

01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:33.920
Wow, what a dick.

01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:37.440
For the children, every day and night were filled with fear.

01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:37.920
Yep.

01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:42.000
Some Cayus advocating killing all the Americans to eliminate witnesses.

01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:50.000
Others hesitated, realizing that harming women and children would only bring harsher retribution from nearby settlers.

01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:50.880
Yep, yep, yep.

01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:55.920
Ultimately, as negotiations began, the captives became bargaining chips.

01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:57.440
Wow.

01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:05.360
So news of the massacre took weeks to reach the nearest authorities because Pony Express hadn't happened yet.

01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:05.920
Nope.

01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:12.960
When word reached the Hudson Bay Company outpost at Fort Vancouver, which is right on the Washington border.

01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:13.440
Okay.

01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.400
Um, they are called HBC for short.

01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:25.679
These officials, through British subjects and not targets of the Cayus, took action to re-rescue the survivors.

01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:26.239
Okay.

01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:37.760
So Peter Ogden, a seasoned HBC fur trapper and trader, uh traveled to the Cayus and opened ransom negotiations.

01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.519
Oh, okay.

01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:48.239
Despite this the violence, the Cayus chiefs were persuaded by Ogden's diplomacy and the offer of substantial goods.

01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.039
Oh, we'll give you a bunch of this shit.

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:52.159
Give us those people.

01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:52.639
Yeah.

01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:59.119
So in late December 1847, after a month of captivity, terms were reached.

01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:12.159
The Hudson Bay Company paid a ransom of blankets, muskets, ammunition, tobacco, and other goods in exchange for the release of approximately 49 surviving pioneers.

01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:12.880
Wow.

01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:24.320
In early January of 1848, the Sager girls and the other um survivors were turned over to Ogden, who ferried them away to the safety of Fort Vancouver.

01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:25.679
Fort Vancouver.

01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:28.000
And so is this in Canada?

01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:29.599
This is no, no, no.

01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:34.079
This is um right on the border of Oregon in Washington State.

01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:34.639
Oh.

01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:36.159
Okay.

01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:36.960
Yes.

01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:41.039
So the Sagers had escaped death for a third time.

01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:42.639
Fucked up.

01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:44.320
Well, some of them did, yeah.

01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:50.960
In the massacre's wake, the four remaining remaining Sager orphans were effectively alone in the world once more.

01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:51.599
Uh-huh.

01:02:51.920 --> 01:03:02.719
By early 1848, they were transported to the Willamette Cap uh Valley in Oregon Territory, uh, which was a um up and becoming American settlement.

01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:03.199
Right.

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:08.559
There the sisters were cared for by the community and eventually placed with foster families.

01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:11.440
Now the girls were not able to stay all together this time.

01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:12.239
Oh, boo.

01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:17.679
They were taken in by different households, though some of the younger ones later rejoined the old elder sisters.

01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:22.159
So they were split up for a little while and then they were able to recon Yeah, they got back together.

01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:22.800
Yeah.

01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:28.800
Despite their traumatic childhood, each Sager girl went on to build a life in the Pacific Northwest.

01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:29.360
Okay.

01:03:29.679 --> 01:03:40.400
So Catherine Sager, the eldest sister, who was 13 at rescue, spent her teen years with Reverend William Roberts' family in Oregon City.

01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:40.880
Okay.

01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:44.159
At age 16, she lost part of her leg.

01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:50.400
She had a partial amputation, which was a lingering compet uh complication from when she had that wagon.

01:03:53.360 --> 01:04:01.199
Um in October 1851 at 16, uh, she married a Methodist minister, Clark Pringle.

01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:01.599
Okay.

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:03.039
Pring Pringle?

01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:07.920
After marriage, Catherine took in her two youngest sisters, Elizabeth and Henrietta.

01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:12.400
Oh, good, to live with her for a while, approximately three years, give or take, not quite sure.

01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:13.119
Sure.

01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:21.840
She and her husband established a farm near Salem, Oregon, and had eight children.

01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:23.280
Eight.

01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:24.880
That's a lot of children.

01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:25.840
Seven plus one.

01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:27.039
Eight.

01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:28.159
Eight children.

01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:29.280
Six plus two?

01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:29.920
Jesus.

01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:30.960
Five plus three?

01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:32.880
What why why why was that a thing?

01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:45.199
About ten years after arriving in Oregon, Catherine penned a detailed memoir of the family's journey and mission life called Across the Plains in 1844.

01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:45.920
That's the whole title.

01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:47.440
Across the Plains in 1844.

01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:48.880
Now I did read this book.

01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:49.760
Did you?

01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:50.480
No.

01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:55.840
I listened to this book on on um shoot, what did I listen to it on?

01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:57.360
I think it was just podcast.

01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:03.440
I think I downloaded a podcast that literally read the book, and it was an hour and a half.

01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:05.039
It was an hour and a half of my life.

01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:06.719
That's how long this book was.

01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:08.880
Did you play it at 1.5?

01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:11.599
I don't remember what speed I listened to it at.

01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:14.400
But it is a short account.

01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:15.599
Um easily readable.

01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:18.480
Yeah novels.

01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:20.239
Like it's not like a Stephen King novel.

01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:24.000
Yeah, and it was very novice writing.

01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:25.440
Well, yeah.

01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.000
I'm just saying, like it's very simple, it's simple.

01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:28.559
It's very simple.

01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:29.519
It's fine.

01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:35.679
Okay, so she initially hoped to publish it to raise funds for an orphanage in honor of Narcissa Whitman.

01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:36.639
Oh, nice.

01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:42.719
Though she did not find a publisher then, Catherine's manuscript survived in her family.

01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:43.280
Okay.

01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:47.760
She did live to see 75 years passing away in 1910.

01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:48.480
Oh, wow.

01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:55.280
And her first hand account was later recognized as one of the most authentic pioneer narratives about the Oregon trail.

01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:56.159
Yeah, for sure.

01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:58.400
I mean, that's 1910, she lived to Elizabeth.

01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:01.280
And of course, much of what we know about the Sagers came from her.

01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:02.000
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:03.039
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:03.920
Makes sense.

01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:07.920
Then we have Elizabeth Sager, um, 10 years old at rescue.

01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:15.039
Yeah, she was fostered by a family in Oregon and grew up to marry William Fletcher Helm, a farmer, in 1855.

01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:15.519
All right.

01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:20.079
She settled in the Willamette Valley and became a mother of nine children.

01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:25.679
These numbers are giving you fits.

01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:30.079
Elizabeth was known for her sharp memory of the Whitman mission events.

01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:34.559
She gave interviews later in life recounting details of the massacre and her captivity.

01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:34.960
Yep.

01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:39.840
She lived a long life, passing away in Portland in 1925 at the age of 88.

01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:40.960
Holy shit.

01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:41.679
All right.

01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:42.800
Good for her.

01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:49.679
Matilda Sager was aid at rescue, was taken in by a family and came of age in Oregon and later, California.

01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:50.159
Okay.

01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:54.000
In her late teens, she married a minor and she had five.

01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:55.679
A young person?

01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:56.239
No.

01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:57.840
I was joking.

01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:00.880
Um, she had five children.

01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:01.599
Damn.

01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:08.239
After being widowed, she remarried Matthew Fultz, a farmer, and had three more children.

01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:09.679
Oh my God.

01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:11.199
She is fertile.

01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:15.599
Matilda eventually moved to California and even married a third time.

01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:18.000
I think they were all natural-causing deaths.

01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:18.480
Sure.

01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:19.679
Um, well, I don't know.

01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:20.719
Sounds like a series.

01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:23.280
Hopefully, she didn't have any more kids.

01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:28.239
She did outlive all of her husbands and spent her final years with one of her daughter's families.

01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:29.039
Oh, good for her.

01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:34.320
Matilda died in 1928, the age of 89, the last of the Sager survivors.

01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:34.960
Damn.

01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:45.760
In interviews decades after 1847, Matilda vividly recalled her mother's death and details of the of the trail, providing valuable historical testimony.

01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:47.679
When did Henrietta die?

01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:49.039
That's my next one.

01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:50.320
Henry, no, that's okay.

01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:58.400
Henrietta, Naomi Sager, the baby, about three years old at rescue, had probably the most tragic post-rescue life.

01:07:58.639 --> 01:07:59.519
Oh boy.

01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:07.440
Little Henrietta was placed with a family, the Keys, K-E-E-S, Keys, and spent three years with them.

01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:13.119
As a young teenager, she reunited with um Catherine's family on their farm.

01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:13.840
Oh, good.

01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:16.079
Remember, I said that Catherine kind of pulled in.

01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:16.319
Yep.

01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:16.960
Yep, yep, yep.

01:08:17.199 --> 01:08:26.720
In her late teens, Henrietta left to join their uncle, Solomon Sager, who ran a traveling entertainment troupe seeking a change of pace.

01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:27.199
Okay.

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:32.000
Henrietta married twice, but both marriages were unhappy and brief.

01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:32.479
Okay.

01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:35.760
By her mid-twenties, her life unraveled.

01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:36.479
Oh no.

01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:45.439
In an accident, Henrietta was killed by a stray bullet during a shootout in which her violet second husband was the target.

01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:46.479
Oh boy.

01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:51.279
She died around 1870 at only 26 years old.

01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:52.319
That's sad.

01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:52.880
Yeah.

01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:53.520
Wow.

01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:54.000
Okay.

01:08:54.560 --> 01:09:01.039
Almost immediately, vigilante resolutions and a militia call swept through the Willameck Valley.

01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:12.640
The newly formed Oregon Provision Provisional Government declared war on the Cayus, launching the Cayus War, which was between 1848 and 1850.

01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:13.119
Okay.

01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:19.600
And it was a messy, sporadic conflict fueled by grief, rage, and cultural misunderstandings.

01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:20.319
Sure.

01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:27.920
For the Cayus, the epidemic deaths of their children, which they believed Whitman caused, was a matter of tribal justice.

01:09:28.159 --> 01:09:28.800
Oh boy.

01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:35.039
For settlers, the massacre seemed proof that the frontier was unsafe without federal intervention.

01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:35.600
Okay.

01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:36.720
So the U.S.

01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:38.319
government took notice.

01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:50.800
In 1848, partly triggered by the upheaval following the massacre, Congress created the Oregon Territory, formally bringing the region under American jurisdiction.

01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:51.359
Okay.

01:09:51.760 --> 01:10:01.119
Troops, judges, and administrators soon followed, weaving Oregon more tightly in weaving Oregon more tightly into the expansion of the United States.

01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.000
Sure.

01:10:02.479 --> 01:10:13.760
For decades, the massacre served as a rallying cry for American expansion, reinforcing the idea that settlers needed protection and native people needed managing.

01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:15.199
Oh, Jesus.

01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:22.960
The Sager children, survivors of both the Oregon Trail and the Whitman Massacre, became almost legendary in pioneer circles.

01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:24.399
Right, no doubt.

01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:32.880
In 1897, a grand 50th anniversary commemoration of the Whitman Massacre was held at the old mission site.

01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:33.600
Oh, wow.

01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:41.840
By then, Catherine Sager Pringle, Elizabeth Sager Helm, and Matilda Sager Delaney were elderly women.

01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:42.239
Sure.

01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:47.279
The last surviving Sager children they attended as guest of honor.

01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:47.840
Wow.

01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:50.079
A photograph of the day, which I will post.

01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:50.399
Okay.

01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:56.720
Shows the three sisters together, their lives having diverged greatly since 1847.

01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:58.159
Well, a little bit, yeah.

01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.880
But were were forever bonded by shared history.

01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:03.520
Sure.

01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:09.680
They helped dedicate a monument to the Whitmans and reflected on how, against all odds, they had carried on.

01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:10.560
That's crazy.

01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:14.800
And that is the Sager family, part two of the Oregon Trail.

01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:16.239
That is wild.

01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:18.159
I've never heard of any of that.

01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:21.039
The Cayus, Sager, doesn't matter.

01:11:21.199 --> 01:11:22.880
I am new to this, so that was that.

01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:23.359
I know.

01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:26.560
And that wasn't that a lot for one family to endure.

01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:27.199
Oh my god.

01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.399
But also, like parents losing oh my god.

01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:32.319
But also what happened with the Cayus?

01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:40.399
Like they just wanted to save their children and and they blame the white man, like most people do these days, to problems.

01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:43.520
So it's fucking full full circle.

01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:44.800
Full circle.

01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:53.520
No, it's sad because like they didn't know, and whether that was neglect on Whitman's part or whatever, we don't know.

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:54.239
We don't know.

01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:58.479
If racism prejudice, prejudice, what it does, whatever.

01:11:58.800 --> 01:11:59.520
Full lying.

01:11:59.920 --> 01:12:01.119
Yeah, we we don't know.

01:12:01.279 --> 01:12:05.840
So it if if it was that, fucking sad because he could have helped them, obviously.

01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:10.319
If it wasn't that, false blame, who knows?

01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:12.640
But no, I mean, we're all fucking humans.

01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:13.840
Let's help each other.

01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:14.640
Yeah.

01:12:16.319 --> 01:12:17.520
Doesn't need to be that way.

01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:18.880
Doesn't need to be that way.

01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:20.560
But well.

01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:21.920
I suppose.

01:12:22.159 --> 01:12:24.560
Alright, buffoons, that's it for today's episode.

01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:28.960
Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time.

01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:31.359
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01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:36.319
Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:37.920
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01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:42.800
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01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:47.279
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01:12:47.359 --> 01:12:50.399
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01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:55.279
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01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:58.800
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01:12:59.039 --> 01:13:01.680
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