Sept. 22, 2025

"Execute or Evacuate, You Decide": Hugh Thompson Jr.

When helicopter pilot Hugh Thompson Jr. flew over the Vietnamese village of My Lai on March 16, 1968, he couldn't believe what he was seeing. Below him, American soldiers—his brothers in arms—were systematically executing unarmed civilians. Women, children, even infants lay dead or dying along village paths and in ditches. What happened next would define not just Thompson's life, but reshape our understanding of moral courage in warfare.

Thompson made a split-second decision that few would have the bravery to make. He landed his small OH-23 helicopter directly between American troops and fleeing Vietnamese villagers, ordering his crew to train their weapons on their fellow soldiers. "If these bastards open up on me or these people, you open up on them," he commanded. In that tense standoff, with American guns pointed at each other on foreign soil, Thompson evacuated eleven civilians to safety. Later, spotting movement in a mass grave, his crew rescued a five-year-old boy—the only survivor among hundreds of bodies.

The aftermath proved that moral courage often comes at devastating personal cost. Rather than being celebrated, Thompson was ostracized, received death threats, and was labeled a traitor by members of Congress. The military attempted to cover up the massacre, awarding Thompson a medal with a fabricated citation that disgusted him. For thirty years, he battled PTSD, depression, and alcoholism while the institution he served tried to bury both his actions and the atrocity he exposed. Only in 1998 did the Army finally acknowledge the truth, awarding Thompson and his crew the Soldier's Medal for their extraordinary heroism.

Thompson's legacy transcends the Vietnam War. His actions at My Lai now form the cornerstone of military ethics training, teaching soldiers that their ultimate loyalty must be to humanity and moral principles above unlawful orders. Join us as we explore the remarkable story of a man who, when faced with the ultimate test of character, chose to stand alone against overwhelming pressure and save innocent lives, reminding us all what true heroism looks like in our darkest hours.

Interview: Larry Colburn From the Collection: Vietnam War

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/my-lai-interview-larry-colburn/#:~:text=starting%20to%20see%20things%20%E2%80%94%C2%A0you,they%20were%20leaving%20on%2C%20and

Op-Ed: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago today

By Jon Wiener

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html#:~:text=Advertisement

Wikipedia: Hugh Thompson Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.#:~:text=Thompson%20reported%20the%20atrocities%20by,destroy%20operations%20in%20the%20village

Send us a text

Support the show

This website contains affiliate links. This means that if you click on a link and purchase a product, I may receive a small commission at no extra cost to you. This helps support the running of this website and allows me to continue providing valuable content. Please note that I only recommend products and services that I believe in and have personally used or researched.

00:00 - Podcast Introduction and Personal Updates

04:05 - Vietnam War Background and Context

08:12 - The My Lai Massacre Begins

18:57 - Thompson's Helicopter Intervention

30:13 - Rescuing Civilians and Confronting Soldiers

39:25 - The Ditch Rescue and Child Survivor

45:50 - Aftermath and Thompson's Struggle

51:10 - Recognition and Legacy

WEBVTT

00:00:16.170 --> 00:00:36.523
oh, hey there oh, hey there I am kate and I am bradley and this is the history buffoons I don't know if I like that this is the history buffoons this is the history, buffoons no, hello, kate.

00:00:36.563 --> 00:00:37.764
Hi, how are you today?

00:00:37.764 --> 00:00:40.606
I'm good, I'm good yeah, what's new?

00:00:40.606 --> 00:00:49.536
Um, just working a lot, working with students a lot.

00:00:49.615 --> 00:00:50.277
Yeah.

00:00:50.337 --> 00:00:55.750
Yep, we had a group just graduate and fantastic.

00:00:55.750 --> 00:00:57.545
They were a good group of students.

00:00:57.746 --> 00:00:58.228
Yeah, that's good.

00:00:58.228 --> 00:01:03.226
Yeah so now they can go off into the world and fix people's muscle problems.

00:01:03.226 --> 00:01:05.950
Exactly Mazel tov Mazel to problems, exactly.

00:01:05.971 --> 00:01:06.893
Muscle, tough Muscle tough yeah.

00:01:06.893 --> 00:01:07.855
How are you?

00:01:08.316 --> 00:01:08.715
I'm good.

00:01:08.715 --> 00:01:11.867
Nothing new to really to report.

00:01:11.867 --> 00:01:17.290
I guess Everything's been status quo, if you will, it remains the same.

00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:18.885
Status quo remains the same.

00:01:20.661 --> 00:01:23.329
No, nothing really too out of the ordinary this past week.

00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:26.106
You're going to be 46 soon, oh dear.

00:01:27.129 --> 00:01:31.686
Yeah, everybody can listen to our Origin of Weird.

00:01:31.686 --> 00:01:34.072
That comes out on my birthday.

00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.950
September 25th 1979.

00:01:40.022 --> 00:01:41.147
Is when I was born.

00:01:41.960 --> 00:01:42.885
Do you know what time of day?

00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:44.141
I think I was in the afternoon.

00:01:44.141 --> 00:01:44.938
I think I was like six o'clock, something like that.

00:01:44.938 --> 00:01:45.212
I always forget that part of day.

00:01:45.212 --> 00:01:45.367
I think I was in the afternoon.

00:01:45.367 --> 00:01:47.152
I think I was like six o'clock, something like that.

00:01:47.152 --> 00:01:48.284
I always forget that part.

00:01:48.284 --> 00:01:50.233
But yeah, I think I was in the afternoon-ish.

00:01:50.474 --> 00:01:52.444
Kind of surprised, considering you're a numbers guy.

00:01:53.245 --> 00:02:01.240
Well, you know when, when you give your mom shit, your entire life for you.

00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:07.581
Look at my brother Ryan's baby book fucking jam-packed.

00:02:07.581 --> 00:02:08.062
Well, he was the first.

00:02:08.062 --> 00:02:08.862
You look at cory's baby book.

00:02:08.862 --> 00:02:10.306
There's some stuff.

00:02:11.307 --> 00:02:25.955
You look at bradley's baby book all it says is my name no for the most part, yeah, there's like nothing in it and I understand she had obviously two kids prior to me to also take care of.

00:02:25.955 --> 00:02:29.944
Once I showed up and everything in my defense.

00:02:29.944 --> 00:02:39.187
She did not work during this time, so she was a stay-at-home mom until I think it was, until I went, started going to school.

00:02:39.187 --> 00:02:46.330
So my dad worked a lot and then she took care of us and then when I started going to, she went back to work finally, because she was a teacher.

00:02:46.330 --> 00:02:51.111
So she had a few years off, because I'm only what?

00:02:51.111 --> 00:02:55.491
Three years and two months and 18 days younger than Ryan.

00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:57.145
So that's so weird of you.

00:02:57.145 --> 00:03:01.286
Why 27 minutes and 10 seconds?

00:03:01.888 --> 00:03:02.550
Yeah, something like that.

00:03:02.550 --> 00:03:05.723
No, I'm kidding.

00:03:05.723 --> 00:03:07.049
No, no, I didn't I.

00:03:07.049 --> 00:03:15.413
We uh, we had a partial baby book for xavier that I don't think sarah ever filled out and I certainly didn't we have.

00:03:15.413 --> 00:03:20.866
Literally, I don't think we even bought a baby book for vesper my microphone is falling, oh dear, oh dear.

00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:22.610
Yes.

00:03:24.292 --> 00:03:24.973
It still is.

00:03:25.713 --> 00:03:26.194
Dang it.

00:03:26.194 --> 00:03:27.156
How is that happening?

00:03:28.461 --> 00:03:31.210
It's probably you have it out too far so it's weighted.

00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:33.215
Oh okay, Let me fix that real quick.

00:03:33.215 --> 00:03:33.500
There you go.

00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:40.311
Hold, please everybody, while this wonderful segment of the podcast goes on with lots of noise.

00:03:40.670 --> 00:03:41.973
Is that better it?

00:03:42.014 --> 00:03:56.580
looks better, I mean it feels better, okay, okay, so.

00:03:56.661 --> 00:03:59.768
Yeah, noise, is that better it looks better, I mean it feels better, okay.

00:03:59.768 --> 00:04:01.611
So yeah, happy pre -birthday to you, early, early birthday to you, happier.

00:04:01.611 --> 00:04:02.633
Thank you very much.

00:04:02.633 --> 00:04:04.938
Yes, yes, yes, okay, we are gonna talk about Hugh Thompson Jr.

00:04:05.841 --> 00:04:06.966
Hugh Thompson Jr.

00:04:06.966 --> 00:04:07.287
Okay.

00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:11.131
And his involvement in the Vietnam War.

00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:22.168
All right, and before we do that, I'm going to open up a beer, Because we can't do a podcast unless we have a beer and we're just doing our normal staples.

00:04:23.584 --> 00:04:34.922
We didn't go out and make any additional purchases today and no we, we needed to just reel it in a bit well, we actually we do have something going on later.

00:04:36.586 --> 00:04:42.961
Um, we're going to a comedy show, so that'll be fun I'm gonna share who, what, where, when, why?

00:04:42.961 --> 00:04:51.312
We're gonna go see bur see Bert Kreischer the Machine, and he just started his new tour literally yesterday.

00:04:51.312 --> 00:05:01.230
He's performing in Milwaukee at the Phi Serve and our friend Kelly went and saw him in Illinois yesterday.

00:05:01.230 --> 00:05:04.108
I said it was great, so I'm excited to go see it.

00:05:04.108 --> 00:05:05.384
So it should be a fun show.

00:05:05.685 --> 00:05:05.867
Yeah.

00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:07.706
I have never seen him before in person.

00:05:07.706 --> 00:05:10.449
I've only seen his specials on Netflix and whatnot.

00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:11.843
I've only seen his belly.

00:05:12.266 --> 00:05:13.149
Well, most people have.

00:05:13.149 --> 00:05:15.648
But yeah, it should be a good show.

00:05:15.648 --> 00:05:17.788
I'm excited to go and check him out.

00:05:17.788 --> 00:05:24.588
He's also a big history guy too, so maybe we can throw a a History of Bifflin's podcast thing on stage.

00:05:24.588 --> 00:05:26.310
I'm just kidding, our tickets aren't that close.

00:05:29.596 --> 00:05:34.105
Okay, so I have a Modelo, you have a Coors Banquet.

00:05:34.206 --> 00:05:34.447
I do.

00:05:34.781 --> 00:05:36.206
They are current staples.

00:05:36.887 --> 00:05:39.134
Yes, let's continue, let's rock this shit.

00:05:39.336 --> 00:05:43.822
Okay, so Hugh Thompson Jr and his involvement in the Vietnam War.

00:05:44.062 --> 00:05:47.065
Vietnam Hugh Thompson Jr and his involvement in the Vietnam War Vietnam.

00:05:47.086 --> 00:05:49.927
So the Vietnam War was approximately.

00:05:50.889 --> 00:05:53.451
Yes, from 1955.

00:05:53.471 --> 00:05:53.750
Okay.

00:05:53.771 --> 00:05:55.692
To 1975.

00:05:55.692 --> 00:05:57.353
Such a long war.

00:05:57.634 --> 00:06:01.197
Okay, and Vietnamese history?

00:06:01.197 --> 00:06:10.500
Mm-hmm, they consider it starting earlier.

00:06:10.521 --> 00:06:11.901
Sure In 1946.

00:06:11.922 --> 00:06:13.423
Much earlier to 1975.

00:06:13.423 --> 00:06:46.750
Wow, yeah, the us was involved between 1965 and 1973 gotcha okay so the war continued two years after we pulled, we pulled gotcha okay so vietnam had split right into north and south vietnam right, and then they couldn't decide if they were communists or not so I mean it's a tough decision yeah, so north vietnam was backed by the soviet union and china yep and they wanted vietnam to unite under communist rule.

00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:50.391
Of course, because that benefits them, because they are also communists.

00:06:51.079 --> 00:07:01.089
South Vietnam is backed by the United States and allies like South Korea and Australia Yep, and their goal was to stay independent from the communists.

00:07:01.089 --> 00:07:15.663
Okay from the communists.

00:07:15.663 --> 00:07:24.252
Okay, then we have the viet kong or the vc or victor charlie or charlie, like there's a lot of like nicknames I guess, but it's the vc or the viet.

00:07:24.252 --> 00:07:24.973
You said cog.

00:07:24.994 --> 00:07:25.413
Cong C-O-N-G.

00:07:25.413 --> 00:07:27.697
You said cog, that's so great.

00:07:28.459 --> 00:07:33.413
So they were guerrilla fighters inside South Vietnam.

00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:35.947
I didn't know that South Vietnam had so many guerrillas.

00:07:36.228 --> 00:07:40.709
Yes, and they were the ones who supported North Vietnam Sure.

00:07:40.990 --> 00:07:44.567
So Obviously you're going to get people that cross the line.

00:07:44.608 --> 00:08:02.327
Yeah, south, some support the north, north support south, whatever blah blah but the vc is local peasants and farmers who turn to fighting um and they trained and were supplied by the north right, okay so in j.

00:08:02.327 --> 00:08:11.476
On jan January 30th 1968, the Lunar New Year truce in Vietnam shattered.

00:08:11.476 --> 00:08:24.255
Instead of peace, 80,000 North Vietnamese and VC fighters stormed more than 100 towns, cities and bases across southern Vietnam.

00:08:24.255 --> 00:08:32.062
Wow, towns, cities and bases across southern vietnam.

00:08:32.081 --> 00:08:33.585
Wow, in saigon, a vc squad breached the us embassy compound.

00:08:33.585 --> 00:08:49.024
Oh geez, stunning everyone in america at home, sure, in hua, which is a town, communist forces held the city for nearly a month, sparking brutal street fighting and mass executions of civilians.

00:08:49.024 --> 00:09:01.092
Jesus christ attacks hit everywhere, from provincial capitals to remote outposts yeah, I mean, they didn't really they didn't hold back no, they just went all out.

00:09:01.192 --> 00:09:10.153
Just let's, let's cause some fucking shit so uS and South Vietnamese troops eventually did crush the offensive.

00:09:10.153 --> 00:09:18.293
Okay, but victory on the battlefield was overshadowed by what Americans saw on TV.

00:09:18.293 --> 00:09:46.581
Sure, americans had been told the enemy was nearly finished, the war was close to an end, oh, but now they're seeing all this chaos in saigon right and now the public support support has collapsed, and at this time, then, president johnson announced I'm not going to run for president again he didn't want to have to deal with this shit, no more so this offensive became like the war's turning point.

00:09:46.761 --> 00:09:56.970
Okay, the vc never fully recovered, but neither did america's will to fight right, okay, they were just sick of it yeah, us troops on the ground were paranoid.

00:09:56.970 --> 00:10:00.403
Um, civilians by day could be enemies by night.

00:10:00.403 --> 00:10:24.188
Right, and this set the stage for this next tragedy oh cool on the morning of march 16th 1968, soldiers of charlie company, first battalion, 20th infantry, 23rd americal division, entered san me, san me.

00:10:24.188 --> 00:10:28.096
It's like a group of little communities, okay.

00:10:28.096 --> 00:10:33.644
One of those little communities is me lie, okay, okay.

00:10:34.986 --> 00:10:42.822
And the charlie company was expecting enemy fighters in me lie do you do you find it funny that they're called the charlie company?

00:10:44.567 --> 00:10:51.448
I mean, I didn't look up why it was called the Charlie Company, but Well, isn't that one of the nicknames for the?

00:10:51.448 --> 00:10:54.971
Yeah, VC, the Viet Cong is Charlie.

00:10:55.460 --> 00:11:00.919
Yeah, and they're the Charlie Company, so it's just kind of I don't know, maybe that's why they were called the Charlie Company.

00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:02.726
I mean as far as we know it could be.

00:11:02.726 --> 00:11:04.565
Yeah, I didn't look into that.

00:11:04.565 --> 00:11:05.548
I'm going to run with it now.

00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:08.081
I didn't even make that connection, so, bro, though.

00:11:08.081 --> 00:11:12.475
I mean don't say anything, continue.

00:11:12.475 --> 00:11:21.313
So they, and they encountered almost entirely unarmed civilians, mostly farmers, in my Lai.

00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.267
So they didn't even have a rake in their hands that could be a weapon it could be.

00:11:27.581 --> 00:11:28.423
Nevertheless.

00:11:28.423 --> 00:11:50.451
Yes, under command of captain ernest medina and lieutenant william cali, the troops began massacring the villagers but why Because they were ordered to why did these two people order their troops to do this?

00:11:50.451 --> 00:11:52.145
Because it came from above them.

00:11:52.780 --> 00:11:53.706
Who did it come from?

00:11:54.841 --> 00:11:55.364
Let's read on.

00:11:55.364 --> 00:12:13.304
Okay, over the next few hours, american soldiers brutally killed hundreds of Vietnamese civilians men, women, children, women, children, infants and they participated in other atrocities I did not want to discuss.

00:12:13.586 --> 00:12:13.826
Yeah.

00:12:15.229 --> 00:12:27.187
Hugh Thompson Jr, a 24 year old warrant officer piloting a U S army oh H 23 reconnaissance helicopter.

00:12:27.187 --> 00:12:41.384
On that day he was like scouting with his helicopter with his other crew members crew chief glenn andriotta okay and lawrence colburn who was the door gunner.

00:12:41.384 --> 00:12:59.083
They arrived on station over the sonmi village which included milai, and artillery bombardment had just finished, like softening the area for a planned us ground assault.

00:12:59.384 --> 00:13:06.147
Okay they were essentially like flattened everything for this assault to happen yeah, so they could have an easy way to get through yeah, so more or less.

00:13:06.326 --> 00:13:26.033
Thompson's mission was, uh, as part of an aero scout team, is to fly low at treetop level and draw enemy fire or spot vc forces, relaying intelligence to the incoming ground troops okay, that sounds like a terrible job it kind of, does I?

00:13:26.052 --> 00:13:28.504
mean hey, man fly just above the trees.

00:13:28.504 --> 00:13:32.517
Any bullets, send them your way right, exactly that.

00:13:32.697 --> 00:13:39.490
Exactly like paint, a target on my underbelly yeah, I mean just put site shoot here.

00:13:40.010 --> 00:13:44.202
Yeah, fuck that so initially no hostile fire was encountered.

00:13:44.202 --> 00:13:46.186
Right, the village seemed quiet.

00:13:46.186 --> 00:13:53.596
Quiet and Thompson's crew spots a single lone VC suspect in a rice paddy nearby.

00:13:53.596 --> 00:14:01.907
They fire on him, he runs away, they call it a day, they call in like a gunship strike.

00:14:01.907 --> 00:14:04.011
When he like flees into the trees.

00:14:04.011 --> 00:14:09.471
Okay, but aside from this, like little brief chase, everything seemed peaceful.

00:14:09.471 --> 00:14:10.113
Okay.

00:14:10.113 --> 00:14:17.913
At 7.40 am, circling lower, thompson observes some civilians emerging from their homes.

00:14:17.913 --> 00:14:23.711
Groups of unarmed villagers are seen leaving my Lai along a dirt road.

00:14:23.711 --> 00:14:30.089
That was quick, wow, carrying baskets and leading water buffalo.

00:14:30.089 --> 00:14:32.644
This is normal.

00:14:32.644 --> 00:14:44.201
It's a Saturday, it's a market day and civilians often flee in the area when combat is implemented.

00:14:44.201 --> 00:14:47.644
Impending the area when combat is implemented.

00:14:47.644 --> 00:14:50.047
Impended, that's the word.

00:14:50.407 --> 00:14:53.730
Wow, that was a struggle, bus there, I mean.

00:14:54.090 --> 00:14:55.831
When combat is impending.

00:14:56.711 --> 00:15:03.037
Jesus, I'm really excited that you got through that, because that was painful to watch.

00:15:03.379 --> 00:15:05.065
Sorry, through that because that was painful to watch, sorry.

00:15:05.065 --> 00:15:13.682
So the villagers are moving out of harm's way, which would mean fewer civilian casualties once the us infantry carly charlie company were coming through.

00:15:13.682 --> 00:15:27.734
So thompson's helicopter departs the immediate area for a few minutes to continue reconnaissance in the vicinity right, maintaining a perimeter search for any enemy forces.

00:15:27.734 --> 00:15:45.049
Okay, at 8 o'clock Thompson's scout team returns to the road where they last saw the civilians, when they saw the same group of villagers now strewn along the road, dead or dying.

00:15:45.692 --> 00:15:46.092
Oh boy.

00:15:47.342 --> 00:15:51.244
It is immediately clear that these people were shot at close range.

00:15:51.244 --> 00:15:52.147
Oh sure.

00:15:52.147 --> 00:15:58.481
So Thomas Thompson did not comprehend exactly what was going on.

00:15:58.481 --> 00:16:01.091
Sure, there had been no enemy resistance.

00:16:01.091 --> 00:16:10.386
Scanning the village below, he sees bodies in other spots as well, and again, no enemy fire did they shoot the water buffalo too?

00:16:10.386 --> 00:16:15.042
I don't know that'd be weird everybody loves a water buffalo.

00:16:15.623 --> 00:16:17.466
Yours is pink, but mine is slow.

00:16:17.466 --> 00:16:19.129
Where do you get them?

00:16:19.129 --> 00:16:20.091
I don't know.

00:16:20.091 --> 00:16:22.504
Everybody loves a water buffalo.

00:16:22.504 --> 00:16:30.768
I took my buffalo to the store, got his head stuck in a door, spilled some lima beans on the floor.

00:16:30.768 --> 00:16:32.865
Everybody's got a water buffalo.

00:16:33.046 --> 00:16:33.707
That didn't work.

00:16:34.910 --> 00:16:35.432
Yeah, it did.

00:16:35.653 --> 00:16:36.094
Did it though.

00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:37.524
Yeah, it's from VeggieTales.

00:16:38.206 --> 00:16:38.868
What the fuck?

00:16:38.868 --> 00:16:41.947
I know You've sung it on this podcast before.

00:16:41.947 --> 00:16:45.765
No, I am dead serious.

00:16:45.765 --> 00:16:46.226
You have.

00:16:46.226 --> 00:16:53.910
I will search it out or maybe it's in an outtake, but I'm almost 100 positive.

00:16:53.910 --> 00:16:57.883
You've sung this on there before because you responded.

00:16:57.883 --> 00:16:59.806
I'm like where is that from veggie tales?

00:17:01.528 --> 00:17:26.597
what the fuck so thompson radios to to report finding casualties and begins marking the wounded survivors with smoke grenades okay so they drop these green smoke markers right next to at least half a dozen wounded civilians in different locations to signal medics or evacuation helicopter that help is needed.

00:17:26.919 --> 00:17:27.460
Right, right right.

00:17:27.961 --> 00:17:36.628
So his radio calls, alerts other army choppers in support um that there are civilians on the ground needing care.

00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:37.190
Okay.

00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:46.047
Thompson still believes these injuries might be accidental, perhaps crossfire or artillery mistakes.

00:17:47.349 --> 00:18:09.373
His instinct is to protect the vietnamese civilians, now treating them as non-combatants who must be aided under the rules of war right so, after marking the wounded, thompson, again leaves the immediate area to expand the search perimeter do you find it funny that there's rules of war but then there's also saying all is fair in love and war?

00:18:09.373 --> 00:18:14.787
Because that kind of defies having rules?

00:18:15.628 --> 00:18:16.250
It kind of does.

00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:18.307
Who said all is fair in love and war?

00:18:18.307 --> 00:18:18.628
Do you know?

00:18:18.840 --> 00:18:27.810
I'm not sure where that originated from, but it is a saying I couldn't tell you from who oh yeah, I've heard it plenty of times but isn't it kind of funny that there's rules of war though?

00:18:27.810 --> 00:18:31.843
Yeah, so maybe it's not all fair and loving war.

00:18:32.585 --> 00:18:48.222
So at 8 30, when thompson circles back, he makes a gut-wrenching discovery every wounded person that he had a mark with smoke is now dead so do you think, because he marked them, they're like oh shit, we gotta finish him off.

00:18:48.864 --> 00:18:52.430
It's very possible, oh boy in disbelief.

00:18:52.549 --> 00:19:01.205
Thompson hovers low over one of the formerly wounded villagers, so he's the one piloting yeah, he's flying.

00:19:01.306 --> 00:19:01.546
Okay.

00:19:02.666 --> 00:19:12.296
A young Vietnamese woman who had just been alive minutes earlier, and he sees a US Army captain standing over her body.

00:19:12.296 --> 00:19:24.432
Oh, dear Thompson holds a hover to observe Captain Ernest Medina, Charlie Company's commander, is on the ground nearby with some of his men.

00:19:24.432 --> 00:19:32.932
Medina walks up to the wounded woman, nudges her with his foot.

00:19:33.614 --> 00:19:34.434
See, she's alive.

00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:37.567
Then raises his rifle and shoots her in the head.

00:19:38.028 --> 00:19:40.133
Wow, that's fucked.

00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.589
This execution is right in front of Thompson's eyes.

00:19:43.589 --> 00:19:49.232
American soldiers are killing unarmed Vietnamese civilians.

00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:50.724
That's just fucked up.

00:19:51.461 --> 00:19:54.390
All three men in the helicopter witness it.

00:19:54.390 --> 00:20:05.115
And in that moment, Thompson realizes that the people on the ground he's been seeing aren't combat casualties at all, but victims of a massacre being carried out by US troops.

00:20:05.315 --> 00:20:05.516
Right.

00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:13.992
So Thompson later recalls that the scene reminded him of old black and white footage of Nazis executing people.

00:20:14.354 --> 00:20:14.634
Sure.

00:20:16.021 --> 00:20:21.951
He is furious and heartbroken, and this is not what American soldiers are supposed to do.

00:20:21.951 --> 00:20:37.883
No, not even close so thompson immediately grabs his radio and reports what he's seen to any us command listening do these people on the ground like, do they know there's a helicopter hovering over them?

00:20:38.584 --> 00:20:42.087
they just don't care because they're carrying out orders.

00:20:42.087 --> 00:20:59.960
Yep, like I'm sorry, I get, you're supposed to follow orders, but wouldn't do you hope, hope they gave some pushback when they got that order that's what thompson's here for yeah because his scout helicopter is on a different, different channel than the infantry.

00:21:00.641 --> 00:21:09.928
He released through the gunship network and command net and he says, quote it looks to me like there's a awful lot of unnecessary killing going on down here.

00:21:09.928 --> 00:21:11.371
This isn't right.

00:21:11.371 --> 00:21:14.164
These are civilians there are there.

00:21:14.164 --> 00:21:28.874
There are people killing civilians down here and quote okay his urgent transmission warns that american ground troops are shooting unarmed villagers, imploring the chain of command to intervene.

00:21:28.874 --> 00:21:34.529
Right so unbeknownst to Thompson, these records were heard.

00:21:35.251 --> 00:21:35.553
Okay.

00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.270
But initially they prompted no immediate orders to stop the carnage.

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.005
Do you think that they're like fuck?

00:21:42.005 --> 00:21:43.009
Someone saw it.

00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:44.986
How do we fix this?

00:21:46.923 --> 00:21:48.227
I don't know what to think.

00:21:48.287 --> 00:21:51.727
to be honest, I don't know how you can be on that mindset.

00:21:51.727 --> 00:22:01.980
The fact that we as a country ever would have approved this through our military is just fucking insane.

00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.286
Yeah, seriously.

00:22:03.796 --> 00:22:07.251
So he received no guidance on the radios.

00:22:07.251 --> 00:22:10.683
Okay, so Thompson decided he's going to take action himself.

00:22:10.683 --> 00:22:11.244
All right.

00:22:11.244 --> 00:22:18.864
He turns to Colburn and Andriotta in the cockpit and asks we've got to do something about this, are you with me?

00:22:19.656 --> 00:22:25.632
And both say yes without hesitation oh, look at them, go a little crew up there they understand the risk.

00:22:25.833 --> 00:22:35.017
Intervening means confronting fellow americans in the heat of combat, but the sight of butchered civilians and children leaves them no choice.

00:22:35.017 --> 00:22:38.941
Nine o'clockclock, thompson flies overhead.

00:22:38.941 --> 00:22:44.125
He sees plumes of smoke and numerous fires burning.

00:22:44.506 --> 00:22:46.188
Is it burning the little village or whatever?

00:22:46.948 --> 00:22:50.171
Many huts had been set ablaze by the troops on the ground.

00:22:50.171 --> 00:23:04.439
The devastation is now widespread.

00:23:04.439 --> 00:23:06.483
Thompson's uh oh, 23 circles, yeah, crew member.

00:23:06.483 --> 00:23:07.847
Crew member glenn andreatta spots movement near a drainage.

00:23:07.847 --> 00:23:11.655
Ditch east of the village, okay, where dozens of bodies lie tangled tangled.

00:23:11.675 --> 00:23:12.477
What do you mean by that?

00:23:12.477 --> 00:23:14.058
Is there more an explanation?

00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:15.280
from the air.

00:23:15.280 --> 00:23:24.510
They count approximately 100 corpses piled in the irrigation ditch.

00:23:24.734 --> 00:23:26.059
So they just kind of were tossed there.

00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:26.361
Yeah.

00:23:26.541 --> 00:23:26.903
Gotcha.

00:23:27.615 --> 00:23:29.383
Like Nazi Germany.

00:23:31.096 --> 00:23:32.962
Were they trying to do like a mass grave?

00:23:33.104 --> 00:23:35.854
Yes, Some of the bodies were still moving.

00:23:36.458 --> 00:23:36.900
Oh fuck.

00:23:38.674 --> 00:23:42.767
Survivors are feebly crawling under heaps of dead people.

00:23:42.767 --> 00:23:49.308
Thompson cannot land right in the rice paddy, so he finds solid ground nearby and touches down.

00:23:49.308 --> 00:23:53.768
He dismounts from the helicopter, leaving the engine running.

00:23:53.768 --> 00:24:00.084
Immediately he is approached by a soldier from charlie Company holding an M16 rifle.

00:24:00.605 --> 00:24:01.407
Like pointed at him.

00:24:02.935 --> 00:24:08.086
Young Sergeant David Mitchell had been one of the men herding villagers to the ditch.

00:24:08.407 --> 00:24:08.807
Oh boy.

00:24:09.694 --> 00:24:23.724
Around them lie clusters of unarmed Vietnamese old men, women and children, many dead, some moaning in agony, and Thompson demands to know what the fuck is happening here.

00:24:23.744 --> 00:24:24.267
No kidding.

00:24:25.717 --> 00:24:46.275
He says what is going on here, lieutenant and Second Lieutenant William Kelly, the first platoon officer responsible for this sector, replies.

00:24:46.275 --> 00:24:47.438
He replies replies just following orders.

00:24:47.438 --> 00:24:50.143
This is my business, I'm in charge here, it ain't your concern.

00:24:50.143 --> 00:24:51.645
And thompson's like orders.

00:24:51.645 --> 00:24:52.528
Whose orders?

00:24:52.528 --> 00:24:54.659
These are human beings, right?

00:24:54.659 --> 00:25:00.037
And callie says look, thompson, this is my show.

00:25:00.037 --> 00:25:03.342
You better get back in that chopper and mind your own business.

00:25:03.342 --> 00:25:24.801
And Thompson says yeah, real great job, real great, that's a good comeback so nearby Sergeant Mitchell adds an additional comment okay when Thompson asks if the wounded in the ditch can be helped, mitchell replies that quote.

00:25:25.323 --> 00:25:27.955
The only way to help them is to put them out of their misery.

00:25:28.115 --> 00:25:37.417
End quote good lord, how could you just be so cold and, yeah, worthless in your nonchalant and yeah, I'd be like, yeah, just following orders.

00:25:37.417 --> 00:25:41.563
Man, just yeah, if you want to help him, just finish him off, right, what the fuck?

00:25:43.005 --> 00:25:45.327
so he orders the soldier.

00:25:45.327 --> 00:25:50.240
Thompson orders the soldier to stop and insists that medical aid be brought in for the vietnamese.

00:25:50.240 --> 00:26:01.307
The enlisted man offers a non-committal reply saying, quote okay, we'll help them out not did he actually laugh like that?

00:26:02.189 --> 00:26:08.246
no, that was me but you said quote so confused oh, he said quote, we'll help them out, end quote.

00:26:08.527 --> 00:26:20.069
Oh, and I said not, okay, I need to readjust because my back is it's a hurting it's a yeah, it's a hoitin, it's a hoitin hoitin okay.

00:26:20.069 --> 00:26:30.795
So Thompson realizes he can do nothing more at this moment and he storms back to the helicopter, enraged, helpless but determined.

00:26:30.795 --> 00:26:57.920
So as the little OH-23 lifts off, gunfire suddenly crackles below and Andriotta's voice shouts over the intercom, he's shooting into the ditch that's one of the guys on the helicopter yes okay and he's commenting about somebody on the floor on the ground just shooting into the shooting into the ditch like killing, trying to kill, the kill, or finished a job.

00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:07.167
I guess we'll call it that so thompson like glances down from his helicopter and the gi has opened up fire on the survivors, good lord.

00:27:07.167 --> 00:27:17.196
So from above, thompson can see bursting um automatic fire ripping through the mass of bodies silencing any last movements.

00:27:17.196 --> 00:27:49.631
Villages, villagers who had been merely wounded are now, quote helped out of their misery in his eyes apparently 9 20 am yeah andriotta urgently points out another impending tragedy oh boy at the northeast sorry edge of the village, about a dozen terrified civilians roughly 10 to 12 people, including women and small children are fleeing toward a bunker in a tree line.

00:27:50.352 --> 00:27:52.801
Okay, whose bunker is this, does it say.

00:27:52.914 --> 00:27:55.561
It's like a bomb shelter in the earth.

00:27:55.561 --> 00:27:57.166
Oh, okay, gotcha.

00:27:57.166 --> 00:28:01.645
So they scramble to hide inside the bunker's low entrance.

00:28:01.645 --> 00:28:10.298
Yeah, thompson's aerial view also spots american soldiers from charlie company closing in on this group, weapons drawn.

00:28:10.298 --> 00:28:18.105
Thompson instantly recognizes that those civilians have less than 30 seconds to live if he doesn't intervene.

00:28:18.326 --> 00:28:20.295
Okay, so how does he intervene?

00:28:20.295 --> 00:28:20.516
So?

00:28:20.536 --> 00:28:26.788
without hesitation, he dives his helicopter between the U S troops and the bunker.

00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:27.510
Okay.

00:28:28.413 --> 00:28:39.800
The oh H 23 swoops down and lands directly in the line of fire, hovering just above the ground between the advanced infantry and the Vietnamese who are cowering.

00:28:40.095 --> 00:28:41.260
So do they land or do they?

00:28:41.260 --> 00:28:41.541
Hover.

00:28:42.694 --> 00:28:46.727
They eventually end up grounding, landing, landing.

00:28:46.727 --> 00:28:54.547
So the aggressive maneuver forces the bewildered American soldiers to halt.

00:28:54.547 --> 00:29:02.676
You would hope Thompson intentionally keeps his rotor spinning, so he's probably just hovering then at this point.

00:29:02.696 --> 00:29:16.801
Okay, but but it is to facilitate a quick escape, if needed, and to deter anyone from approaching the blades well, right, because if they're like, well, this dude's fucking up our orders, take them out so we can do what we're supposed to do.

00:29:16.801 --> 00:29:18.865
You can fucking take off.

00:29:18.865 --> 00:29:23.307
But yeah, I mean, you've seen people get out of helicopters and whatever.

00:29:23.307 --> 00:29:26.178
They always duck, yeah, even though they're never tall enough.

00:29:26.337 --> 00:29:45.527
Yeah, I mean, they're way taller than you, people, you don't have to duck so but I get the sound and the the, probably the wind pressure, yeah, whatever, the downward yeah, pressure sure so thompson turns in his seat and he issues a command to colburn and andriotta.

00:29:45.527 --> 00:29:46.308
So is he?

00:29:46.308 --> 00:29:49.036
Is he higher ranked than the people on the ground?

00:29:49.296 --> 00:30:01.459
no, he's not okay he says to colburn and andriotta Cover me If these bastards open up on me or these people you open up on them.

00:30:01.459 --> 00:30:02.884
Oh shit, promise me.

00:30:02.884 --> 00:30:14.121
He is effectively ordering his own crew to prepare to fire on fellow Americans, if necessary, to protect these civilians.

00:30:14.121 --> 00:30:15.358
That's fucking wild.

00:30:15.358 --> 00:30:25.608
So both door gunners on their M60 machine guns say promise, absolutely, we promise.

00:30:25.934 --> 00:30:27.722
Did they pinky swear before they left?

00:30:29.496 --> 00:30:36.167
So Thompson then leaps out of the aircraft and strides towards the second platoon leaders.

00:30:36.167 --> 00:30:41.285
Okay, the leader's second lieutenanthen brooks approaches.

00:30:41.285 --> 00:30:49.628
Thompson brooks is startled in the least to find an american helicopter pilot blocking his mission.

00:30:49.628 --> 00:30:56.775
Thompson seething demands that brooks brooks hold his fire and not harm the people in the bunker.

00:30:56.775 --> 00:31:00.692
Right, he says listen, just hold your men here.

00:31:01.034 --> 00:31:21.470
I'm gonna try to get these people out of the bunker and get them help and lieutenant books brooks says yeah, we'll help you get them out of the bunker with a hand grenade so, like I understand, they kept saying they were following orders, but that seems like more than just following orders, doesn't it to you?

00:31:22.555 --> 00:31:30.326
Brooks, though technically outranking, Thompson does back down to Thompson.

00:31:30.627 --> 00:31:32.250
Hmm, that's impressive.

00:31:32.494 --> 00:31:42.019
Maybe Brooks senses that Thompson says what he means and the helicopter's M60s are now trained in his direction, thompson says what he means and the helicopters, m60s, are now trained in his direction.

00:31:42.019 --> 00:31:48.909
Colburn and Andriotta have disembarked the helicopter and taken cover by the aircraft ready to fire if needed.

00:31:49.890 --> 00:31:50.431
Good Lord.

00:32:01.734 --> 00:32:04.301
Could you imagine being prepared to shoot on your own countrymen because of what they're doing to another person?

00:32:04.301 --> 00:32:17.138
Okay, so the two crewmen actually don't point their guns directly at the americans to avoid provoking an incident, um, but they do set up a like a defensive uh perimeter and stare down the us troops so are they just have their guns, like pointing down?

00:32:17.138 --> 00:32:18.321
Yeah, I would assume so.

00:32:18.321 --> 00:32:19.384
Okay, yeah.

00:32:19.384 --> 00:32:31.615
So colburn at one point waves to one soldier saying we're on the same side right and the gi like half-heartedly, like, waves back.

00:32:31.635 --> 00:32:39.748
He's like hey so, with the american soldiers held at bay, um in the standoff.

00:32:39.748 --> 00:32:43.298
Thompson now turns his attention to the bunker, bunker, bunker.

00:32:43.298 --> 00:32:43.759
Yeah.

00:32:43.759 --> 00:33:10.083
He walks towards the small um opening and he leaves his rifle behind and at 9 25 he positions himself in front of the bunker, calling out to the vietnamese inside okay so he coaxes them to come out, using gestures and a tone of voice to, like convey, say like hey, it's okay, yeah not like get the fuck out here right, yeah, exactly.

00:33:10.083 --> 00:33:13.654
So at first there is hesitation um the people inside.

00:33:13.815 --> 00:33:15.337
Just blame them heavens.

00:33:15.337 --> 00:33:20.509
No, I mean, they were just getting basically as they should be, because they're.

00:33:20.509 --> 00:33:24.654
They're literally getting chased, yeah, with guns, and people are getting gunned down and shit.

00:33:24.654 --> 00:33:28.021
I would be fucking terrified to trust this guy.

00:33:28.021 --> 00:33:29.305
They don't know.

00:33:29.305 --> 00:33:30.106
He just showed up.

00:33:30.106 --> 00:33:36.295
Nope, I mean, I would assume they saw the helicopter land in between them I would hope so, but I don't know.

00:33:36.295 --> 00:33:38.380
But they also don't know what the fuck that means.

00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:38.740
No.

00:33:39.301 --> 00:33:41.728
Because people are attacking him.

00:33:41.728 --> 00:33:46.446
So it's like, are you friendly or foe.

00:33:47.435 --> 00:33:53.763
So he still like, persistently urges and finally, one by one, the civilians come out.

00:33:53.763 --> 00:33:57.063
Okay, 11 civilians in total.

00:33:57.714 --> 00:34:00.538
That's how many were in there, okay, 11 civilians in total.

00:34:00.557 --> 00:34:01.838
That's how many were in there.

00:34:01.838 --> 00:34:06.201
Okay, so he had expected just a couple of survivors, not this many like four or five.

00:34:07.083 --> 00:34:08.744
Oh, he had no idea there was 11.

00:34:08.744 --> 00:34:09.085
Okay.

00:34:09.105 --> 00:34:12.947
Yeah, so he has a little three seater helicopter.

00:34:12.947 --> 00:34:15.070
He can't carry people.

00:34:16.030 --> 00:34:19.657
Right, sorry, that was terrible.

00:34:19.757 --> 00:34:32.777
So Thompson gathers the 11 civilians quickly, including five children I feel like you could do two children per seat and he moves them towards the helicopter to get them out of the line of fire.

00:34:32.777 --> 00:34:43.740
At 9 30, seeing that his little helicopter cannot fit the villagers, thompson gets on the radio and calls for help from larger helicopters.

00:34:43.740 --> 00:34:51.864
He hails two UH-1 Huey gunships that have been circling as support.

00:34:51.864 --> 00:35:04.920
Thompson asks them to abandon their gunship role and land to execute these unarmed no Land to evacuate.

00:35:08.166 --> 00:35:10.282
Execute or evacuate, you decide.

00:35:10.282 --> 00:35:14.302
Wow, kate, that was impressive.

00:35:15.985 --> 00:35:23.505
It was an unusual request, but they immediately agree Okay, we're going to come by and we're going to evacuate.

00:35:24.036 --> 00:35:26.204
We're going to execute an evacuation.

00:35:26.474 --> 00:35:29.925
Take these people a few miles down the road to safety and then come back.

00:35:30.206 --> 00:35:30.567
Okay.

00:35:31.074 --> 00:35:37.048
So, without hesitation, the first Huey sits down near Thompson's position.

00:35:37.048 --> 00:35:42.266
They ferry the Vietnamese to the Huey in small groups.

00:35:42.266 --> 00:35:48.905
The gunship crews make two trips shuttling the 11 civilians to safety.

00:35:49.114 --> 00:35:51.583
How many seats does these Hueys have on there?

00:35:51.856 --> 00:35:52.855
They're bigger helicopters.

00:35:53.221 --> 00:35:53.932
I get that, but.

00:35:54.135 --> 00:35:59.137
I would think maybe five, four or five, don't you think, if they take two trips?

00:35:59.516 --> 00:36:00.719
Don't you think they take two trips?

00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.407
Don't you think the military missed out on naming one line a Huey, one line a Dewey and one line a Louie?

00:36:06.347 --> 00:36:10.237
Potentially I'm going to move on.

00:36:10.237 --> 00:36:17.684
So they drop them off near Quang Nai City and quickly return to support the Charlie company.

00:36:17.684 --> 00:36:22.068
So during the evacuation the standoff does continue.

00:36:22.248 --> 00:36:31.297
Thompson's crewmen maintain their guard and they're warning the American platoon to stay put.

00:36:31.317 --> 00:36:43.958
So a group of US infantry weapons ready, staring at each other in confusion, resentment, a helicopter crew escorting Vietnamese villager to safety at gunpoint.

00:36:43.958 --> 00:37:02.264
The impromptu, like ceasefire, lasts about 15 minutes for the rescue okay so at one point colburn recalls that there was a stare down that lasted a minute or two between him and a single american soldier, until it became clear the civilians would be evacuated quickly.

00:37:02.494 --> 00:37:03.780

"Execute or Evacuate, You Decide": Hugh Thompson Jr.

Recent Episodes