April 6, 2026

"Help Us Brucie!": The 1989 Hillsborough Disaster Part One

"Help Us Brucie!": The 1989 Hillsborough Disaster Part One
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Ninety-six people die at a football match, and the first story many hear is that the fans caused it. That tension between what happened and what powerful people claimed happened is why we finally sat down to tell Part 1 of the Hillsborough disaster with the care it deserves.

We start with the Hicks family, lifelong Liverpool FC supporters traveling to Hillsborough Stadium in Sheffield for the 1989 FA Cup semifinal. Through Jenny Hicks’s account, we track the day’s key failures in crowd management and stadium safety: congestion at the Leppings Lane turnstiles, the decision to open Gate C, and a narrow tunnel that funnels thousands into already-packed pens behind the goal. We break down how a crowd crush works, why “stop pushing” doesn’t help when movement becomes involuntary, and how metal fencing and crush barriers turn pressure into tragedy.

From there, we follow the aftermath that families had to survive: delayed and disorganized emergency response, loved ones searching without information, and the dehumanizing treatment that compounds grief. Then we confront the media and institutional backlash, including The Sun’s infamous “THE TRUTH” headline and the attempt to frame Liverpool supporters as drunk and violent. Finally, we walk through the Taylor Report, what it proves about South Yorkshire Police and stadium design failures, and why legal accountability still doesn’t arrive, setting up the long fight ahead as inquests narrow the story and return an “accidental death” verdict.

If you care about public inquiry, justice for Hillsborough, and how crowd control failures become national trauma, press play, then subscribe, share the episode, and leave us a review so more listeners can find the story.

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00:00 - Welcome And Baseball Banter

03:20 - Beer Picks And Palate Opinions

05:55 - Setting The Scene At Hillsborough

10:20 - Tickets Turnstiles And Leppings Lane

16:20 - Gate C Opens And The Tunnel Fills

20:50 - The Crush And The Six-Minute Match

27:45 - Chaos On The Pitch And Delayed Help

33:05 - Jenny Searches And Gets Moved Around

37:45 - Hospital Trauma And Dehumanizing Treatment

45:45 - Photos Identification And Police Interrogation

47:20 - The Sun Prints A Lie

54:05 - Taylor Report And Stadium Safety Reform

56:35 - No Criminal Charges And A Support Group

01:00:20 - Inquests Cutoff Time And Verdict

01:05:10 - Part One Ends And Where To Reach Us

WEBVTT

00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:16.480
Oh, hey there.

00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:17.519
Oh, hey there.

00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:18.800
How's it going today?

00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:19.600
I'm good.

00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:20.719
How are you, Mr.

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Wisconsin Knight?

00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:22.960
Uh, that's me.

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I'm born and bred.

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I know you are.

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What's up, Cornhusker?

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This is the History Buffons.

00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:29.519
I'm Kate.

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I'm Bradley.

00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.719
And I am a transplant.

00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:35.280
That's how I that's how I tell people.

00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:36.719
They're like, oh, where are you from?

00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:38.560
And I'm like, ah, I'm a transplant.

00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:39.679
I say it just like that.

00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:41.520
It's a little like an old Timey 30s movie.

00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:42.079
Yeah, and you.

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I'm a transplant.

00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:44.479
You she.

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Yeah, they they uprooted the corn and planted it somewhere else.

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We sure did.

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No.

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I mean, come on.

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Come on.

00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:56.719
How are you?

00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:57.439
I am well.

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How are you today?

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I'm good.

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I still got a lingering cough.

00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:02.479
So you'll hear that like just now.

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Excuse me.

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On point.

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Yep.

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I am excited for Brewers Baseball.

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Brewers baseball today.

00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:12.560
Yes.

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Uh, so the this is game two of the season.

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Um, we both like baseball, watch it.

00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.359
So we're gonna record and then we're gonna watch watch a game.

00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:24.400
Um and root for the brewers.

00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.200
Yeah, we are.

00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.879
They kick some AS on Thursday, so that was nice.

00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:32.480
Um, I think I need to like strap Nathan to a chair.

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He's not gonna like it.

00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.519
Sarah likes baseball, she just doesn't follow it at all.

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Yeah, she'll watch it when I have it on, yeah, but she doesn't really care, more or less.

00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.719
Um, I really don't think Nathan's gonna care at all.

00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:54.640
So I told Nathan yesterday that I was gonna be wearing, or that I was uh that watching a watch a oh my god, stroke.

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We're gonna watch it tonight.

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And he goes, Ah, sports ball.

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I was like, Yep, that tracks.

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See, so again, you don't need to strap him down.

00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:05.599
That would be a waste of your energy.

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Just saying.

00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:11.919
Anyway, so we're very excited for baseball season.

00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:13.039
I love baseball.

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I love watching it.

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I watch literally almost every game unless I have to go to bed and they play the West Coast and I can't watch it.

00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:20.080
But no, I I love baseball.

00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:21.840
It's half since I was a kid.

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My son wants to go to a couple games, so I'm hoping he's getting a little more into it.

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Vesper obviously doesn't care.

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Yeah.

00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.719
But maybe if they had K-pop Demon Hunter night, they should care.

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But I don't believe they do.

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Yeah.

00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:36.080
Um, yeah, so no, I'm I'm excited for baseball.

00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:42.080
So well, we are gonna talk a little bit about sports today, like just a very small amount.

00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:42.560
Okay.

00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:45.759
Um, it's actually kind of a Debbie Downer episode.

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So it tracks.

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I know.

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I know.

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Like, am I gonna get mad Debbie Downer or is it just sad?

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Yeah, you might.

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Yeah.

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Mad, sad, all the things.

00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:01.199
Um, this is going to be about the 1989 Hillsboro disaster.

00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:05.680
It is a soccer game or in England where this takes place.

00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:06.159
Football.

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With a U.

00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:09.039
Yes.

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No, not with a U.

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F-U-T-O-B-O-L.

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Are you sure?

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Look it up.

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Are you sure it's a football?

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.000
Look up the it doesn't matter.

00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:21.280
What are we drinking today?

00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:22.960
Because I'm so excited for this one.

00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.759
So we got a variety pack to accommodate many different flavors.

00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.479
Um, it's from Oscar Blues, so I'm not having this one first, I'm just showing you.

00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.400
I have had this one, Dale's Pale Ale, delicious.

00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:41.039
Um, but we're gonna start off with their maslima.

00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.520
So it's uh salt and lime sort of lisa.

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It's from Longmont, Colorado.

00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.479
Yeah, I was gonna say Colorado is where they reside.

00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:51.199
Um I have another Dale's.

00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:51.759
Oh, yeah.

00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:54.159
So what's the difference between that Dale's and this Dale?

00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.000
Well, that's a light lager.

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A light dale?

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Dale light?

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Dale light, or that this is a pale ale, that's a light lager.

00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:02.240
Okay.

00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:06.960
So and then I also have a a hazy blues juicy IPA.

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And I have Mama's Little Yellow Pills.

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And he's he's going in my uh surprise I'm drunk koozie.

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To keep it cold?

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To keep it cold, if I think that's not a bad idea.

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I should probably take my last one in there.

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Yeah.

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So okay, I'm gonna open up Maslima because I'm excited for well.

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This is your style, and you like the ones with the salt and lime and stuff typically, so that's good.

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I like very subtle on the lime.

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Yeah, the salt is more prevalent.

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Yeah.

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So yesterday I was going through Walmart and I saw a huge case of Alani lime drink of some sort.

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And that's an energy drink, right?

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Yeah, so I'm not a huge Alani fan, but like if they're on sale and Monster isn't, I'll actually get Milani.

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Sure.

00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.800
And I was like, I love lime.

00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:11.279
So I picked it up and it tastes just it's called lime slushy, and it is on point.

00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.279
Yeah, it is a lime slushie.

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You were told me about that.

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It was amazing.

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Delish.

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Oh my god.

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I felt like I was a little girl growing up.

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You still do.

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What?

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Yeah.

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Okay, so because I don't think you've ever grown up.

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Jesus.

00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:27.759
Okay, how did you like it?

00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:28.480
You like it?

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It's a little more too salt forward.

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It is a little salt forward.

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Um not enough lime.

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Could use a little more because like on that back end where it hits your tongue, it's like salt.

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Too bad.

00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:45.439
I mean, give Nathan one.

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Oh, he won't like it with the lime.

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Just he's not he's not a citrus person.

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Yeah.

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But just tell him to wait till the back end of the he likes salt.

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Okay.

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He does like salt.

00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:57.439
So let's get into this.

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Ah, Debbie Downer time.

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Yeah.

00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.040
Um, so we're gonna start with um a family of four.

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It's the Hicks family.

00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:05.600
Hicks family, okay.

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.199
Where's Hillsborough?

00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.079
Hillsboro is about four hours north of London.

00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:16.000
Okay, and it's actually Hillsborough is the stadium.

00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.639
Oh, we are going to Sheffield, England.

00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:19.040
Sure.

00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:19.920
Sheffield, yep.

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I've heard of that.

00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:27.759
And then if you know where Liverpool is, which is on the coast, on the west coast, it's about two hours from there.

00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:29.439
Do you know who's from Liverpool?

00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:30.319
The Beatles.

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The Beatles.

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Mm-hmm.

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They didn't know that.

00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:34.000
Okay, just checking.

00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:34.399
Yeah.

00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:34.959
Okay.

00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.279
So family of four living in London.

00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:46.959
It is Trevor Hicks, um, his wife, Jenny Hicks, and their two daughters, Sarah, who is 19, okay, and Vicky, who is 15.

00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:47.839
All right.

00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:50.560
Get a purple ready.

00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:51.839
That's fine.

00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:57.680
So they were die hard Liverpool football club fans.

00:06:57.839 --> 00:06:58.160
Okay.

00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:04.560
England's football is like our football plus baseball combined.

00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:04.800
Yeah.

00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:06.879
And y'all just heard how we feel about baseball.

00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.360
So it's it's Europe's.

00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.959
It's yeah, it's Europe's UK or anything.

00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.240
It's Europe is so crazy about their football.

00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:18.399
Um I get it.

00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:19.439
That's their thing.

00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.959
I am not what you would call a fan of soccer, Sash Flip.

00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:24.240
I just don't know enough about it.

00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:25.199
I don't either.

00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:29.519
You know, it's like a lot of people just running around for a long time.

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Lots of running.

00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:32.560
And uh, it just makes me tired watching it.

00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.319
I I I don't know.

00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:37.680
I just it doesn't engage me like it does for them, but and that's fine.

00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:38.560
Yeah.

00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:48.000
But um Liverpool was in the Football Association Cups semifinal against Nottingham Forest.

00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:48.639
Ooh.

00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.120
Okay.

00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:51.759
Was uh Robin Hood on the team?

00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:52.639
I'm pretty sure.

00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:53.040
Okay.

00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:55.439
Um, and uh what's the bear?

00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:56.639
Little John.

00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:57.279
Little John, yeah.

00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:58.160
Little John was there too.

00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.160
Walking through the forest, I can't.

00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:00.800
Yeah.

00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:07.600
Um yeah, and Nottingham was a little bit closer to Sheffield, England than Liverpool is.

00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:08.000
Okay.

00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:08.399
Okay.

00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.920
Just to kind of like visualize distance.

00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:12.720
Sure.

00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.040
So this is a huge game.

00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:21.839
It's a semifinal, and it takes place at the at the Hillsborough Football Stadium in Sheffield, England, England, which is mid-country.

00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:22.399
Okay.

00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:22.800
Okay.

00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.920
So this was neither town's stadium.

00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:26.319
Yeah.

00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:26.879
Okay.

00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:29.600
Um, and they planned for that.

00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:30.319
Right.

00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:30.720
Yes.

00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:31.439
I get that.

00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.039
So Sarah, who's 19, was home on Easter break in London.

00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:35.279
Oh.

00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.159
But she goes to university in Liverpool.

00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:38.480
Oh.

00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:46.080
So at the very end of Easter break, they decided let's go to the semifinal and then we'll just drive you to Liverpool, drop you off, and we'll just go home from there.

00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:46.639
Sure.

00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:48.159
So nice big plan.

00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:48.639
Right.

00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.679
Um, it's about two and a half hours away from Sheffield.

00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:58.559
So on April 15th, 1989, it was a bright and it was sunny day.

00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:00.159
Everybody was super happy.

00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:05.519
The Hicks family packed a picnic and set off from London, which is about a four-hour drive.

00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:06.000
Yeah.

00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:14.799
And they made their way to Leppings Lane, which was the street outside of their entry point into the stadium.

00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:15.360
Oh, okay.

00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:20.480
So you'll hear hear Leppings Lane a lot as like the focal point of this.

00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:26.000
Um, in prior years, police were accustomed to hooliganism.

00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.000
And to keep that to a minimum, they actually separated the fans.

00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:30.639
Oh, wow.

00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.799
So Liverpool fans went to enter at Leppings Lane.

00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:35.919
Oh, I see.

00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:39.360
And Nottingham Forest entered on the opposite side of the stadium.

00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:39.919
Sure.

00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:44.799
So unlike the previous year, which the Hicks also went to the semifinal, okay.

00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:50.320
Um, the streets around the stadium weren't cordoned off, nor were their tickets checked.

00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:51.440
That seems odd.

00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:52.320
Seems odd.

00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:53.120
Yeah.

00:09:53.679 --> 00:10:01.279
So through the Liverpool Football Club, Trevor, the dad, applied for their tickets through some kind of a ballot.

00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.440
Have you heard of that before?

00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:04.080
Not really.

00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:04.879
Same.

00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:13.360
Um, but for some reason, they were given three tickets for standing room only, which were very, very popular um area in the stadium.

00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:14.000
Sure.

00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.720
Um, because it was right behind the Liverpool goal.

00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:17.759
Oh, gotcha.

00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:23.519
And they had um one seated ticket in the north stand.

00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:24.080
Okay.

00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:24.480
Okay.

00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:30.480
So the Hicks got to Leppings Lane about an hour before start time.

00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:46.240
Jenny, the mother, thought it was odd that last year, and again this year, the Liverpool fans, which outnumbered the Nottingham Forest fans, were told to go to Leppings Lane to enter where there were fewer turnstiles.

00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:52.879
Now, these turnstiles are the really tall ones that you have to walk through, not the little No, no, no, right.

00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:54.879
Yeah, not the uh waist level ones.

00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:55.679
Yeah.

00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:02.399
There were 23 turnstiles at Leppings Lane and 60 at Nottingham Forest side.

00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:04.159
Yeah, that seems weird.

00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.240
But I did so Jenny Hicks wrote a book.

00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:08.799
Oh, okay.

00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:11.600
And that's where I'm getting most of my information.

00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:12.000
Okay.

00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:13.200
And that is what she said.

00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:15.360
She was surprised at this situation.

00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:16.000
Sure.

00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:25.519
But in according to a later inquiry, Liverpool was allowed, nope, allocated just over 24,000 tickets.

00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:25.840
Yeah.

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.360
And Nottingham Forest had um 30,000.

00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:33.120
So there were actually more Nottingham Forests.

00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:33.519
Gotcha.

00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.639
So they got the side with the with more turnstiles.

00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:37.120
Sure.

00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:37.840
Like sure.

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:38.080
Yeah.

00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:38.559
Make sense.

00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:39.039
Yeah.

00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:39.519
Yeah.

00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.240
Um, so it just made sense, right?

00:11:42.480 --> 00:12:00.960
Now the kicker is although there are 23 turnstiles on the lepping ling side, congestion built heavily in this area, and a small number of them were all the only ones being consistently used.

00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:01.679
Okay.

00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:02.879
Seven.

00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:04.240
Oh my god.

00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.759
Why?

00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:08.480
Okay.

00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:10.960
Jesus Christ.

00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.879
So three standing tickets for the Hicks.

00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:16.399
One seated.

00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:22.480
So Jenny was gonna give her husband Trevor the seated ticket, thinking he'd have a better time up there.

00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:22.799
Okay.

00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:26.000
Um, in the stands, and then Jenny would just be with her girls.

00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:33.679
The standing room terrace had shallow steps um so that the people behind her were just slightly taller so they could view over, right?

00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.039
Like a like an auditorium seating arrangement kind of thing.

00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:37.759
Makes sense.

00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:38.399
Yeah.

00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:49.200
But Sarah and Vicky demanded that Jenny take the seat in the Northstand because she would have a better view as she was so short.

00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:49.840
Oh.

00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:50.480
Yeah.

00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:50.799
Okay.

00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:52.879
They're like, Mom, you're not gonna see very well.

00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:54.559
Go up and sit in the stands.

00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:55.840
And that won't be with that.

00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:56.399
Yeah.

00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:57.039
Gotcha.

00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:57.759
Yeah.

00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:02.320
So, um, sweet girls, like, yeah, yeah.

00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.320
Jenny agreed, and she said her goodbyes to the girls and her husband.

00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:11.440
And as she's walking away, Jenny hears her youngest Vicky call after her.

00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:18.240
So Jenny turns around and Vicky comes running after her, gave her one more big hug and one big kiss.

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.039
And that was the last time Jenny saw her girls alive.

00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:23.919
That was really sad.

00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:24.879
Yeah.

00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:25.759
Yeah.

00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:26.720
Wow.

00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:27.840
Yeah.

00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.960
So have you heard this story at all?

00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.000
Not at all.

00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:37.519
Um, Jenny took her seat in the North Stand by 1.50 p.m.

00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:38.240
Okay.

00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.080
The game would start at 3.

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:40.799
Oh.

00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:44.080
So she had to sit there for an hour and 10 minutes before the game?

00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:47.519
Well, if the game went on like it's supposed to be.

00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:48.799
Yeah, but I don't know.

00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:54.480
We football, I feel like you go early on too, and our football, American football.

00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:55.360
Yeah.

00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:02.720
Um there's been plenty of times where I get there right at the you know, we have signed seats.

00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:03.600
Fair.

00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:05.120
I don't need to like get there.

00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:06.480
Gotta get a good seat here.

00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:06.960
Right, right.

00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:07.360
That's it.

00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.360
So it's like, even if we get there, we're down in the concourse.

00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:11.919
Yeah.

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.120
Getting a beer or a sandwich or whatever the fuck we do.

00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.519
Yeah.

00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:16.639
I mean, okay.

00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:17.120
Anyways.

00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:17.679
Yeah.

00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.919
So by even by this time, 150, when she has her seat.

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:23.679
I have to burp again.

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:25.600
Burping all the time, I tell you.

00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:40.559
Um, Jenny looked over from her seat at Leppings Lane entry point and noticed that the pens that fans were pouring into, there were six altogether behind the goalie.

00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.360
Okay.

00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.240
And pens three and four were directly behind the goal.

00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:59.919
So Jenny noticed that the ends, um, pens one and two and five and six were pretty sparse with people, but three and four were getting really filled up.

00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:04.320
So these pens were basically metal cages.

00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:04.879
Right.

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:14.879
So you've got um metal fencing on the sides of the pens, on the front, and then there was basically only one entry and exit, and that was behind you.

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:15.279
Sure.

00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:15.919
Okay.

00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:23.759
So um these fences were also separating the other pens.

00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:24.320
Right.

00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:25.279
Oh, sure.

00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:25.919
Okay.

00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.240
So players were warming up on the field at about 2:30.

00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:38.159
The goalie actually started noticing the pens were looking crowded, and he wondered why they weren't scattering to like the other pens.

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:43.919
And Jenny said that the Nottingham Forest side pens looked completely normal.

00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:52.159
Everyone was spread around as she would normally have seen as she was there the the year before, and she's been to lots of football games, you know.

00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.320
Did they print the tickets wrong?

00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.320
Oh, I will tell you.

00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.759
So the middle was just filling up and up and up with people.

00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:12.639
And what Jenny didn't know at the time was that the newly appointed match commander chief superintendent, that's quite the title.

00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:13.360
No kidding.

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.039
David Duckinfield.

00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:16.639
David Duckenfield.

00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:20.159
And when I mean newly appointed, I mean like weeks.

00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.120
Wow.

00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:21.840
Okay.

00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:28.720
Like up to maybe two or three months, just so he was pretty uh green and green.

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:29.519
Okay.

00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:37.440
Um, Duckinfield ordered exit gate C open at Leppings Lane.

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:42.799
It is technically an exit for people to, you know, filter out rather quickly.

00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:54.559
Um, but there are about two to five thousand fans um still outside the gate and the turnstiles that still had to make it into this state the stadium.

00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.720
And the game was about to start.

00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:08.240
So it was briefly discussed that the game be pushed back about 15 minutes to allow these fans to get in in an organized, timely manner, but it was denied.

00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:09.200
Oh fuck.

00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.200
So instead, Duckinfield ordered Gate C open.

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:13.759
Okay.

00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:25.359
When you enter the landing or the concourse as you have called it, straight ahead is a narrow tunnel, and that leads directly to pens three and four.

00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:25.920
Oh.

00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:37.039
So once you get into this tunnel, yeah, it narrows and it slopes downward and directs everything into like a single uninterrupted line.

00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:37.680
Okay.

00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:38.240
Okay.

00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:49.359
Now there were no clear signs, no voices redirecting people elsewhere, nothing to suggest that the path ahead leads to a space that has already been filled.

00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:49.680
Right.

00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:51.839
So the crowd continues forward.

00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:52.559
Oh boy.

00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.319
The pat and the crowds do what they do, they follow that path in front of them.

00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:56.799
Yep.

00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:10.000
Especially when that path is the easiest and the most visible, and the one that requires the least thought in a moment of thinking, they have other entrances to the other pens.

00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.319
The signage is horrific.

00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.279
It sounds that way if they can't even figure out any way to direct these people elsewhere.

00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:17.920
Jesus.

00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:18.720
Yeah.

00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:23.119
So the people in the pens behind them, more people are entering.

00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:23.759
Yeah.

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.319
And space is already gone.

00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:37.680
Between those two things, the pressure from behind and nowhere left to go up front, and the situation begins to shift from something super uncomfortable to something that cannot correct itself anymore.

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.559
Right.

00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:43.200
Jesus.

00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:54.000
So an additional 20, 2,000, excuse me, an additional 2,000, some odd fans pushed through to pens three and four.

00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:54.960
Oh my god.

00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.359
Those pens can hold about 2,200 to 2,500 people.

00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.480
Per pen.

00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:01.440
And yes.

00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:02.960
Yes, per pen.

00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.400
And they were already maxed out.

00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:05.200
Oh boy.

00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.319
They were maxed.

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:06.880
Yep.

00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:08.480
It's now three o'clock.

00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:09.839
Game's gonna start.

00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.519
The game officially started.

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:17.359
One of the first attempts at scoring, the player kicked the ball and it hit the goalpost post.

00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:17.920
Okay.

00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:19.920
Bounced up into one of the empty.

00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:20.640
No.

00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.480
No, no, it just hit the goal post, so super close to the goal.

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:25.200
Yep, yep, yep.

00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.920
And that made the crowd go wild.

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.400
And because people in pens three and four in the back couldn't see.

00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.680
They pushed forward.

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:35.599
They pushed into the pens even further.

00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.880
Oh fucking hell.

00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.279
Zero room.

00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:43.680
People were getting crushed against the front of these metal pens.

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:44.720
Well, right.

00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.960
There was no way out for these people except for that tunnel behind them.

00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.759
So you couldn't even like climb over it?

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:52.880
You could.

00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:53.680
Okay.

00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.519
But there was no room to even breathe.

00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:58.240
I get that.

00:19:58.559 --> 00:19:58.880
Yeah.

00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.799
Like, does it did you ever come across how high the front of the gate was?

00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.440
No, but people did climb.

00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.599
Well, I'd hope after a while.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.400
Yes.

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:15.279
So for the people at the front of the cages, their breathing starts to change.

00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:16.079
Yeah.

00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:25.440
Each inhale feels restricted, smaller than the last, and as though the space needed for it was being taken away.

00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:33.200
Their attempt to lift their arms to embrace or to open their chests was very limited.

00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.759
Every direction is filled.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.079
Every attempt to adjust was just absorbed by the bodies around them.

00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:42.720
Right.

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.200
So you raise up your arm and all of a sudden there's somebody right there.

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.119
And now you're now your arm's stuck up in the air.

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:47.519
Yeah.

00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.000
Yeah.

00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.960
So behind them, the pressure continues to grow and it's constant.

00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:53.359
Okay.

00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.119
And of course, the fence of the of the pens do not move.

00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.799
Well, no, they're designed to well be stationary.

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:07.599
So I mean, there's literally nowhere to go because you're at a fucking wall.

00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:08.720
You're at a wall.

00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:09.200
Yeah.

00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:17.599
So it fixes them in place and turning the pressure from behind into something more concentrated, something that presses forward.

00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:25.200
They are being moved unwillingly by the pressure of this crowd.

00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:28.319
And when you have nowhere else to go, your body starts compressing.

00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:38.319
So at first, the crowd around them is only a little bit louder, then it becomes a little sharper.

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.200
Voices start to become a little bit more panicked.

00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.799
And people are starting to ask others, you need to move back.

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.160
Stop pushing.

00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.200
Then it becomes strained and urgent.

00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.039
And then the realization spreads that no one is choosing to push.

00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.799
No one has control over this movement.

00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:00.960
They are being Moved.

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:01.680
Right.

00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.279
That's fucking wild.

00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.200
There is no free will.

00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.680
Jesus.

00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:14.480
Hands start appearing around the fencing, like just grasping.

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:20.480
Fingers are gripping the metal, searching for something to help give way.

00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:29.279
Um, soon there were attempts to climb, lifting themselves just enough to ease the pressure on their chest.

00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:30.319
To be able to breathe.

00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.960
Their feet trying to find a barrier to like for their footing.

00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:36.880
Others can't move at all.

00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.519
And they are held in place, pinned between the fence and the weight behind them.

00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.279
Their bodies are absorbing this force that can't be redirected or escaped.

00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:47.599
Right.

00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.720
And breathing is no longer automatic now.

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:51.119
Right.

00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:52.799
It's a constant thought.

00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah.

00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:01.759
It requires focus and they try to push back, but nothing shifts.

00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:03.599
Well, not against that many people.

00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:04.559
There's just no way.

00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:11.920
Even if you have a good section of that front portion of the people pushing, the pressure, because I'm assuming it's downhill.

00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.039
Yes, it's downhill.

00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:15.359
So how are they gonna push all that back up?

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:16.640
There's no fucking way.

00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.319
They're screwed.

00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:23.839
The bodies behind continue to move forward, filling every gap, pressing inward.

00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:30.160
There is no way forward, and there is no way back anymore.

00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.599
Fans are starting to climb the front fence to get over.

00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.440
If they made it, granted, the game is on, right?

00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.000
Right.

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.720
If they made it over, they were still incredibly respectful of the game.

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:43.200
Sure.

00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:44.960
They did not go on to the pitch.

00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:45.599
Well, right.

00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:46.720
They were very respectful.

00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.319
It wasn't a pitch takeover.

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:48.640
Okay.

00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:50.559
No, it was like, I need to live.

00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.200
Yeah.

00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.160
Fucking hell.

00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:52.480
Yeah.

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:53.680
I mean, and that's the thing.

00:23:53.759 --> 00:24:01.279
Like, if and I don't know if this comes up, but you start seeing these people climb over so early in the fucking game.

00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:03.440
Someone should look into this.

00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.000
The problem is the police think that it's unruly behavior.

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:09.599
So they start shooting?

00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:10.720
No, thankfully.

00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.799
God, that would that would be fucking depressing.

00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:13.839
No, they don't, thankfully.

00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:14.799
Oh, wait, it's England.

00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:15.839
They don't have guns.

00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:28.319
So supporters in the upper terrace were starting to lean over and grab the people from pens three and four and pulling them up into the stands.

00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:29.279
That's wild.

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:29.839
Yeah.

00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.599
It was that close they could do that?

00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:31.920
Yeah.

00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:32.640
That's crazy.

00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.119
Or like if one stood on someone else, sure.

00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:35.759
They could reach.

00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:37.119
They could reach.

00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.759
Wow.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.799
That's fucked up.

00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:45.039
I saw one interview and I didn't write down any information, so this is all from Kate's poor memory.

00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.720
Oh boy, we should move on.

00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:55.279
Um, this guy said he's he's middle-aged by now, and he said that he was next to a man.

00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:59.519
They didn't exchange any words, they just looked at each other in horror.

00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:06.720
And the other man, this guy was a teenager, the other man lifted him up into the upper terrace.

00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:12.480
And the guy says, I have so much guilt over that because I don't know who he was.

00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.799
He saved my life, he if he lived, if he died, he saved my life.

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.119
Wow.

00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.759
And he has been with me every single day ever since.

00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:20.880
I have no doubt.

00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:21.839
That's crazy.

00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:22.480
Yeah.

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:23.119
Wow.

00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:23.680
Yeah.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:26.559
That's that would be fuck to live with the rest of your life.

00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:28.640
And and no words were exchanged.

00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.759
He just like get up on me.

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.119
So you just yeah.

00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:33.279
You can't even thank him.

00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:33.519
No.

00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.640
You know, it's and that would be a huge thing for him, too.

00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:44.640
But the fact you can't even thank him, and the other fact you don't even know if he fucking survived this stupid ass fucked up thing.

00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:45.359
Yeah.

00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:46.880
Whoa.

00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:47.920
Miss Coze.

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:49.839
Continue, please.

00:25:50.880 --> 00:26:05.680
So meanwhile, police, what few they had, it seemed, yeah, kept pushing people back who were attempting to jump the fence because they thought they were unruly, they were hooligans, they've had hooligans before, so these gotta be hooligans now.

00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:08.960
Every time you say hooligans, I just think of uh Eurotrip.

00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:21.839
Jenny, back in the stands, overheard a man running up near her to someone who was sitting nearby, and he tells his friend, quote, there are dead people down there.

00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.279
End quote.

00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:25.119
Wow.

00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:27.200
That's fucked up.

00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:35.119
So she is watching this, these pens just it's all it's almost like a solid blob of color at this point.

00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.039
There's no individual people at this point.

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:38.559
Yeah, it's hard to discern different.

00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.079
And then all of a sudden she hears there are people dying that down there.

00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:44.079
Okay.

00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:49.680
Apparently, as early as 240, game started at 3.

00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:51.039
People are already dead.

00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.160
People were saying, quote, no more room, no more room.

00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.240
They were yelling that at 2.40.

00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.000
The authority heard it, didn't do anything about it.

00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:03.920
What a pile of shit.

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:11.599
Fans were yelling at the goalkeeper once the game started, and they said, quote, help us, Brucie, help us.

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.599
There are people dying in here.

00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.279
Wow.

00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:25.039
The goalie yelled to a policeman who finally ran out onto the pitch, and the game was officially stopped at 3.06.

00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.680
So for almost a half an hour, people were getting crushed.

00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.160
Yes, and the game was only on for six minutes.

00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:32.960
Yeah.

00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.160
Wow.

00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:35.920
That's fucked up.

00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:36.720
Yeah.

00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:38.559
Okay.

00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:45.440
More people started jumping the fence, and now they were trailing onto the field.

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.279
Some would collapse.

00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.279
Others started calling out for help.

00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.599
Others joined in to help with people doing CPR.

00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.759
Um, from the north stand, Jenny could not see her family.

00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:58.640
Right.

00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.279
And remember that call to open Gate C that came from Duckenfield?

00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:03.680
Yeah.

00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:08.880
It was because there was a crush that was happening at the turnstiles as well.

00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:09.759
Oh, really?

00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:16.480
Because there were so many people out there, and everybody was bottlenecking somehow to these seven turnstiles.

00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.000
The others were operational.

00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:24.160
But for some reason for some reason, these seven turnstiles were the bottleneck, and people were getting crushed there.

00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.839
So just open the gate.

00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:35.519
But refused to close off or didn't think about closing off Closing off the tunnel to pens three and four.

00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.599
So now that people are getting out, more are just coming in?

00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:37.920
Yes.

00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.000
Fucking stupid ass fucks.

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.039
Really?

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:42.640
Wow.

00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.640
Finally, the gates at the front of the pens were opened.

00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:50.880
Oh, so there are gates at the front?

00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:51.599
Yes.

00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:52.240
Okay.

00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.640
And they couldn't be opened.

00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.880
But finally, they opened them.

00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:58.480
Well, fucking.

00:28:59.279 --> 00:28:59.599
Okay.

00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:01.920
Of course, too little, too late.

00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:03.039
Of course.

00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.960
They had been in a fatal crush since 240, 245.

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:07.680
Yeah.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:13.440
Inside the gates, there are metal crush barriers that they put in place.

00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:20.960
They looked like waist-high barriers that you couldn't like go forward, you know, okay.

00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.880
To kind of help separate.

00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:25.440
Those were broken.

00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:26.400
Weird.

00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:31.119
Metal, the pressure of all the people broke this metal barrier.

00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:32.079
That's wild.

00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:37.519
People standing behind it and people standing in front of it were either hurt or killed.

00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:38.160
Right.

00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.759
Sarah and Vicky Hicks were in front of one of those barriers.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:42.319
Oh.

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:51.359
People were stumbling out of the pens, laying down on the pitch, performing CPR, people everywhere.

00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:57.359
96 men, women, and children lost their lives that day.

00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:01.519
That is a lot of fucking people to lose at a goddamn football match.

00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:05.200
The youngest was 10 and the oldest was 67.

00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:06.799
Jesus Christ.

00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.039
So did wait.

00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.839
Just the two daughters died, not the father?

00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:13.519
Oh, okay.

00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:14.319
Yes.

00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:25.680
So what's so horrifically and tragically crazy during this part when people are coming out onto the field and collapsing?

00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:32.319
The Nottingham Forest fans were chanting and singing for their team.

00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:40.240
I saw a video where all these people are on the pitch and they're just singing because they have no idea what is actually happening.

00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.079
They don't know there's a tragedy happening.

00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:42.559
Of course.

00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.079
And it's so eerie because you know it's happening, but they're singing.

00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:47.039
It's so bizarre.

00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:47.839
That's strange.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:48.160
Yeah.

00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:49.359
Yeah, you can know.

00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:50.480
How would they have known?

00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:50.720
No.

00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.599
So I mean, you can't fault them without getting any any fucking information.

00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:04.000
So no, you can't fault them at all, but just the behindsight is just, oh my God, that's so creepy and crazy.

00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:05.119
That is wild.

00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:05.920
Yeah.

00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.400
44 ambulances were waiting outside the match.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.400
Um, they were all from different districts.

00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:16.799
You know, a lot of we we do that in regular baseball games and football games.

00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:17.039
Yeah.

00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:17.599
Yep.

00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.680
Um, there were 80 trained medical personnel there as well.

00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:30.720
Despite dozens being nearby, the emergency response was delayed and poorly coordinated.

00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:35.920
And only one ambulance reached the pitch, quote, in time.

00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:37.119
Wow.

00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:42.720
So they have to wait for orders to move in.

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:46.240
Which I get, but what the fuck, people?

00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.000
Jesus Christ.

00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:58.720
I hope see, and it's sad that like people like the the daughters die, but yet the fucktards who don't who are making the decisions for all these people.

00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:00.720
Yeah, they're fine.

00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:02.960
Oh, they're up in the control box.

00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:09.119
Well, of course, or some fucking whatever, but that's horse shit.

00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:09.680
Yeah.

00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:10.559
Anyways.

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.440
Yeah.

00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:15.119
So several failures were happening at once.

00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.759
Police did not immediately declare a major incident was happening.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:29.519
Um, the early assumption was crowd disorder, not medical emergency, and there were no clear instruction or route for the ambulances to enter.

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:30.319
Sure.

00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:42.319
So with only one ambulance making it onto the pitch, we find out later that when it left the grounds, Trevor and Vicky were the ones that were inside.

00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.119
Oh, really?

00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:43.599
Mm-hmm.

00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:44.319
Oh, wow.

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.880
Mm-hmm.

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.960
And I'll speak more about that a little later.

00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:47.519
Okay.

00:32:48.319 --> 00:33:02.000
Over the loudspeaker, the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dagglish, who was very respected, told everyone to stay in this, uh, everybody in the stands to stay in their seat to avoid anyone else getting hurt or getting in the way.

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.079
And Jenny, listen, she stayed put.

00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:09.039
Even though she's seeing this chaos and wondering where her family is, she stayed put.

00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:14.160
And eventually the game was abandoned, thankfully.

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.599
Um, and people were allowed to leave their seats.

00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:24.559
The Hicks family had already negotiated a rendezvous point after the game.

00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.480
Um, so that's where Jenny went first, was that that rendezvous point?

00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:29.359
Which makes sense.

00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.079
Yeah.

00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:36.319
She waited there as the crowds began to thin, and she never saw Trevor, Sarah, or Vicky.

00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:44.319
Jenny saw some police nearby, and this whole rigmarole with Jenny, it's asinine.

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:45.039
Okay.

00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.440
It's asinine, what they have put her through.

00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:48.640
Oh dear.

00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:55.839
They directed her back up to the Northstand where she came from because they were setting up some kind of help station up there.

00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:56.559
Okay.

00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.720
So she goes back up there.

00:33:58.880 --> 00:33:59.279
What?

00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:07.440
She goes back up there, and there was a huge line of people waiting to hear about their loved ones at this new help station.

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:17.840
Once Jenny is able to talk to someone, they said, quote, this is her quote, quote, oh, go back to the car, love.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.960
They'll have gone back to the car, end quote.

00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:25.440
Now.

00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:27.280
What the fuck is wrong with people?

00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.400
This will be the first of many times that Jenny Hicks was called love.

00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:33.360
Okay.

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:39.280
And it's like, it's like on our on the American side being called oh hun.

00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:40.239
Or dear, yeah.

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:40.880
Deer.

00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:41.199
Yeah.

00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:41.679
Yeah.

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:43.920
It's just icky.

00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.719
Well, I know, it's like, good day, love, you know, all that.

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.880
But it's like, oh, honey.

00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:50.960
Like, bless your heart.

00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:54.719
Like, it's there, it's like there's like a negative connotation to it.

00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:55.920
No, I get that.

00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:00.000
Or I hate it when like young people tell old people, oh hun.

00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:02.880
It's like, no, no, it's respect your elders.

00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.880
Yeah, but nobody does.

00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:11.440
So she was, she hated being called loved, and she got that many, many times.

00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:12.000
Okay.

00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:14.559
So she did as she was told.

00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:15.840
She went to her car.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:17.199
Trevor had the money.

00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.960
Trevor had the car keys.

00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:20.719
Trevor had, you know, whatever.

00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.239
She didn't have anything.

00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:30.159
So she's waiting outside by her car, one of the only cars left in the park in the parking lot.

00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:32.800
She also wasn't from Sheffield.

00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.159
She was in a place she didn't know.

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:35.039
Right.

00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:44.880
So she waited there for about 10 minutes when a police car drove up to her, and without saying hello, anything, they rolled down the window and said, get in the car.

00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:46.239
Okay.

00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.559
So she got in the car.

00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.440
They're police.

00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:49.920
Okay.

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.079
They drove her to a police station.

00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:55.119
Oh, fuck.

00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:59.519
Which they had set up as a headquarters for the disaster.

00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.159
Okay.

00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:00.639
Okay.

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:01.760
So not shady.

00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.280
It was just weird.

00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:03.760
Weird.

00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:04.000
Yeah.

00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:04.559
Yeah.

00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.159
What happened next is just irritating to hear.

00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:10.239
It's exhausting to hear.

00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:22.719
But they moved her from the police station to across the street to a boys club, which they overtook for their relatives, then back to the police station to give detailed descriptions of her family.

00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.639
And then they take her back over to the boys' club.

00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.199
It seems like unnecessary movement.

00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.360
It seems like they don't know what the hell they're doing.

00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:32.400
Clearly.

00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:38.000
So when she is at the police station, she does give detailed descriptions of her family.

00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:38.480
Right.

00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:40.639
She keeps getting moved around.

00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.679
Um, but she ends at the boys club.

00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:44.320
Sure.

00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.719
So they're at the boys club.

00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:52.000
Finally, a social worker named Alan Dunkley came to help her.

00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:52.719
Okay.

00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.360
This is the first person who talked to her like a human?

00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.239
A human and helped her.

00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:00.880
Sure.

00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:06.000
And ever since then, I think they've remained some kind in contact like throughout the years.

00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.760
Yeah, that but tends to happen.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.679
Yeah, he was so helpful to her.

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.599
He took her to the Northern General General Hospital in Sheffield to see her if her family was there.

00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.159
Okay.

00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.280
He was the first person to listen to her.

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.119
She was so grateful.

00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:26.239
So he followed her into the hot into the hospital and basically stayed with her all night.

00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.400
Well, especially because, again, she's not from there.

00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.559
She doesn't know where the fuck she is or what to do.

00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.079
She doesn't have her keys, nothing.

00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:32.880
She's got nothing.

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:33.199
Yeah.

00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:38.960
So it's nice that this person obviously stuck with her to see this through, kind of thing.

00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:46.559
So they reached the nurse's desk and she asked if Trevor, Sarah, or Vicky was there.

00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:49.199
And the nurse said, We've had a Victoria.

00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:50.400
Okay.

00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.840
Had had a Victoria.

00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:00.320
Jenny and Alan were escorted to an empty treatment room.

00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.280
At first it was just Jenny, but she's like, No, I want somebody with me.

00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:04.719
So Alan came with.

00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:19.760
There was a nurse and a doctor in there, and the doctor was looking at a clipboard as if reading a script, didn't look at Jenny, and basically said, Vicki was dead.

00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:21.119
Okay.

00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.199
This next part chaps my ass.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:27.360
I love that saying.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.239
Jenny asked to see Vicky, and the nurse replied, quote, No, I'm sorry.

00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.000
I'm afraid you can't do that.

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.239
She has nothing to do with you now.

00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.840
She is the property of the coroner of South Yorkshire.

00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.559
Yeah, go fuck yourself, nurse.

00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:46.719
She has nothing to do with you.

00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.760
Yeah, who the fuck?

00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.159
What the fuck are you, you piece of shit?

00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:51.760
That's my fucking daughter.

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:54.320
Isn't that horrific to hear?

00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:54.960
Yeah.

00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.199
What if see you next Tuesday?

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.079
Trying not to say that word on video anymore.

00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:01.280
Oh my god.

00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:02.639
What is wrong with her?

00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.920
And that's not the first time, or that's not the last time that it happens.

00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:10.000
Oh my god.

00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:10.800
Yeah.

00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:13.599
She has nothing to do with you, love.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:14.800
Pretty much.

00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:16.079
Fucking hell.

00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:17.199
Oh my god.

00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:18.559
What the hell?

00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.400
Jenny was then informed that Trevor was here with Vicky.

00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.800
Remember, they were in the ambulance that she didn't know at the time.

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:25.599
Yes.

00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.880
He is alive.

00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:27.440
Okay.

00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.800
And had gone to another hospital to see if Sarah was there.

00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:31.360
Okay.

00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:32.800
No cell phones at the time.

00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:34.239
Obviously, 1989.

00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:34.559
Yeah.

00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:36.719
So of course him and Jenny can't talk, right?

00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:37.119
No.

00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.800
So the nurse actually called over to the hospital, frowned Trevor, and told him to come back because his wife's here.

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:43.199
Okay.

00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:43.679
Okay.

00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:45.119
And he was with a woman.

00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.440
And Jenny thought at first, this is Sarah.

00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:48.639
Oh my God, this is Sarah.

00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:50.079
No, it was another sh social room.

00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.039
I was gonna say it's like the female equivalent of Alan.

00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:53.599
It was.

00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.960
So Trevor had a good little support person as well, which is which is super great.

00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:00.079
Yeah, but fuck it.

00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:01.360
But it wasn't Sarah.

00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:02.239
That's sad.

00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:06.800
Trevor said that he searched for the girls with all his might on the pitch.

00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:19.920
I don't remember Jenny mentioning this in the book, but I heard in other articles that Trevor actually left the pens at one point to buy a program, and that's what saved his life.

00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.119
Oh fuck.

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:21.920
Really?

00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:22.800
Yeah.

00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:25.519
I mean, okay.

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:27.360
You look at it two ways.

00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:32.159
Good for him, lucky on him, but now he has to live with the death of his daughters.

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.280
That he left there.

00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:38.639
And he's gonna have that guilt that he's like, well, I left my daughters and they're dead because I left them.

00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:40.639
Would he have died too?

00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:41.440
Probably.

00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:42.159
Maybe.

00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:42.960
Good chance.

00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:43.360
Yeah.

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:44.320
You don't know.

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.639
You can't say definitively that he would have.

00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:48.960
But could you imagine living with that?

00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.119
Like I went to if that's what it was.

00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:51.440
Yeah.

00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:56.159
I went, you know, allegedly go get a program and came back, and my daughters are crushed.

00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:57.360
Fucking hell, man.

00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:58.800
Oh, but it gets worse for him.

00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.400
I'm sure it does.

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:07.440
Um, Travers did find his girls on the pitch lying side by side.

00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:08.000
Oh.

00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.679
And he tried to revive them both somehow.

00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:19.519
Um, a fan who came up to him was actually a doctor, he came up and started CPR on Sarah while Trevor worked on Vicky.

00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:24.400
When that ambulance came onto the pitch, Vicky was carried to it.

00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:29.760
In the seconds that it took to go back to Sarah, the ambulance was full.

00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:38.719
And he was then faced with the impossible choice of going to the hospital with Vicky or staying with Sarah.

00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:40.000
Fuck.

00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:47.920
Thinking Sarah was gonna be in the next ambulance that didn't come, he went with Vicky.

00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:49.039
That's sad.

00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:50.000
Yeah.

00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.519
Out of the seven females who died that day, two of them were the Hicks daughters.

00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.400
But only Vicky made it to the hospital.

00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.280
Out of the seven women, only Vicky made it to the hospital.

00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.320
Wow.

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:08.719
Trevor said the doctors tried for 20 minutes to resuscitate Vicky before calling time of death.

00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:12.559
And still the nurses refused to let them see Vicky.

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:21.280
The nurse said again, this time to both of them, as they're together now, quote, she is absolutely nothing to do with you two anymore.

00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:34.800
I don't understand that thought process from this nurse because even okay, yeah, she died in their hospital, but we get to have a fucking funeral, you dumb piece of shit.

00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:36.800
What the fuck do you mean?

00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:38.880
We she has nothing to do with us anymore.

00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:40.880
You don't get to claim property.

00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:47.760
What are you just gonna go sell her body for like fucking cadaver experiments and shit?

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:49.519
What the fuck are you saying?

00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.199
Well, the truth was Vicky wasn't in the hospital anymore.

00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:54.400
Where was she?

00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.159
They sent her back to the stadium.

00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:57.199
Why?

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:02.639
Quote, the coroner ordered it so that all the dead could be together.

00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:03.679
End quote.

00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.440
So the stadium has some type of gymnasi gymnasium.

00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:09.920
Sure.

00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:16.079
And they set that up at the time of a like makeshift mortuary.

00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:16.719
Okay.

00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:18.639
And that's where Sarah had been.

00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:19.440
Okay.

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:24.719
While Vicki was in the hospital, Sarah was in this gymnasium with she was already past as well.

00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.599
So they sent Vicky back to the stadium.

00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:34.639
So the nurses could have just said she's not here anymore.

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:36.480
We sent her to the stadium.

00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.199
Not she has nothing to do with you.

00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:47.440
I'm so I really hope that person had some pain in her life.

00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:49.280
Because fuck her.

00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:50.000
Yeah.

00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:53.679
I mean, why would you word it that way, even if it's I know I I don't know.

00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:54.239
I don't know.

00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.239
Why would you word it that way?

00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:58.239
That is horrific sounding.

00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.840
It's terrible sounding.

00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:04.320
I'm gonna chug a little.

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:06.000
I'm just gonna chug a little.

00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:06.880
So okay.

00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:07.679
Salt.

00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:10.159
Since we're taking a mini chug break, apparently.

00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:12.800
I had the hazy afterwards.

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.480
Oh, are you done already with it?

00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:16.559
That salt fucked it up.

00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:20.239
Oh no! I should not have drank that one first.

00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.519
All I can taste is salt in my mouth.

00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:30.639
Okay, so we need some like so I'm even trying to like balance it out with a coors banquet, but I'm already halfway through my Dales.

00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:32.559
Oh no.

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:34.880
I will never have a Maslima again.

00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:36.559
So salty.

00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:38.000
Or at all.

00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:39.119
I mean, I really like it.

00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:40.239
I'm glad you do.

00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.440
You can have the third one because I didn't think about that.

00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.920
Yeah, it's just it's completely taking over.

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.960
Like all I can taste on my my tongue is salt.

00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.239
How can we like refresh your palate?

00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:53.360
Brush my teeth.

00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:54.239
I don't know.

00:44:55.360 --> 00:45:00.159
What's the um the sorbet that they serve in between courses like on pretty women?

00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:01.519
Oh shit, what is that?

00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.360
Is that uh it looks minty, but I doubt it's mint.

00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.039
Yeah, I I um I don't know.

00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.119
I know what you're talking about, but anyways.

00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:16.079
Okay, so yeah, once back at this stadium, they were still denied in seeing Vicky.

00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:18.320
They didn't know Sarah was there at the time.

00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:19.760
Of course, why would they have?

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:34.800
The victims were in the gymnasium, as I said, and with Trevor, Trevor getting more and more angry because he can't see his daughter, two additional policemen show up, but they escort Trevor and Jenny into the gym.

00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:35.840
Thank God.

00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:44.800
So the original two that said no, you can't see them, and then Trevor started getting mad, were your typical police officers.

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.920
These next two were like Shaq's big brother.

00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:49.519
They were huge.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:50.320
Okay.

00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:57.599
So thinking that because this man is getting angry, we need some, yeah, we need some bigger more force.

00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:02.639
But these two giant men ended up being compassionate and be like, yes, let's take you to your daughters.

00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:03.119
Yes.

00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:04.719
Or at the time, daughter, babies.

00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.280
Yes.

00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:05.760
Yeah.

00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.679
So they were taken to a board full of photos.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:10.880
Oh shit.

00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:11.599
Yes.

00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:14.960
They recognized Vicky right away being at the hospital.

00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:16.159
She was all cleaned up.

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:21.119
Um, so it took a little while, but they did finally see Sarah's photo.

00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.679
Sure.

00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.800
Um, so both girls were lost in this tragedy.

00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:25.760
That's so sad.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:31.760
So after confirming their pictures and their bodies, um, they were questioned.

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.159
And Jenny actually said in her book, no, we were interrogated.

00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:38.079
Why?

00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.719
Many of the police's questions were about alcohol.

00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:44.320
Are you fucking serious?

00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:46.079
Did you have any at the game?

00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:48.480
Did you stop to buy some on the way to the game?

00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:50.480
Did you have any with your picnic?

00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.519
Why why would their thought process go that route?

00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:56.719
Oh, I'll tell you.

00:46:57.039 --> 00:46:57.679
Oh god.

00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.320
That that reason will come to light very soon.

00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:00.880
Okay.

00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:02.400
Eventually.

00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:02.960
Yeah.

00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:06.000
Exhausted, mourning.

00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:08.559
Trevor and Jenny went home alone.

00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:11.280
Four hours to London.

00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.000
How could you Jesus?

00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.079
Could you imagine that fucking drive?

00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:16.880
Yeah.

00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:20.639
I mean, holy shit, that would just be.

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.519
I don't know what I'd do with myself at that point.

00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:23.760
Yeah.

00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:25.599
You know, me having two kids as well.

00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:28.159
Jenny says she kept wanting to look in the backseat.

00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:29.199
Of course she did.

00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.119
If I was driving, I'd keep checking the fucking rearview mirror to see if they're there.

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:33.440
Yeah.

00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:34.400
Fucking hell.

00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:35.920
I could couldn't even fathom.

00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:36.480
Yeah.

00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:38.719
Could not even fathom doing that.

00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:48.079
So four days after after the disaster, there was a headline that came out on the front of a newspaper called The Sun.

00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:49.519
Have you heard of The Sun?

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:50.079
Okay.

00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:52.639
It said, quote, the truth.

00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:54.000
Fucking hell.

00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:58.239
The article claimed, and this is where the interrogation comes in, comes back.

00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:11.760
The article claimed that Liverpool fans were drunk, they'd urinated on the dead, picked their pockets, and robbed them, among other atrocities, which I'm not going to say.

00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:21.599
They were obviously trying to shift the blame from the stadium or the police, the higher-ups, to the people.

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:23.119
To the fans.

00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:24.480
Wow.

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:30.239
The idea that the fans were to blame came from David Duckenfield.

00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.000
And that was the dumb shit who had just been in place.

00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.519
I literally wrote the Chief Commander Bullshit Whatever.

00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:39.280
That's what I wrote.

00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:42.239
Chief Commander Bullshit Whatever.

00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:43.920
I think that's our title.

00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:49.119
And he was the one that told key people to open Gate C.

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:49.679
Yeah.

00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:52.400
But sorry, sorry, let me retract that.

00:48:52.880 --> 00:49:00.639
He told key people that would go to the papers that Gate C was forced open by the fans.

00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:03.119
What a piece of shit.

00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:06.960
So he's just trying to save his own ass.

00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:08.800
100% what he's doing.

00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:13.599
I I I know this was, you know, 37 years ago.

00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:17.440
I hope he never mind, I won't say that out loud.

00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:19.679
I hope bad things for him.

00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:30.800
So on Monday, April 24th, 1989, it was Sarah and Vicky's funeral, and then they were b buried on the 25th.

00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:32.559
It's my dad's birthday.

00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.519
Yeah.

00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:44.559
And then on the 29th of April, the Liverpool families had like a mass funeral up in Sheffield or if it was actually Liverpool.

00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:45.679
It might have been Liverpool.

00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:46.159
Okay.

00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:51.119
But some 3,000 people were in attendance along with Trevor and Jenny.

00:49:51.360 --> 00:50:00.480
The Liverpool football team, Margaret Thatcher, other politicians, and the Duke and Duchess of Kent on behalf of the royal family were all there.

00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:01.360
Wow.

00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:05.760
The goalie who helped stop the game, his name was Bruce Grubbelar.

00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:07.039
Help us, Brucey.

00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:09.760
Sorry if I didn't pronounce his name correctly.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:10.320
It's okay.

00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:11.920
He ended up giving a reading.

00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:13.119
Oh, nice.

00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:20.400
And after the service, four members of each family were invited to meet with the dignitaries.

00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:31.199
And around this time, it was announced that there was going to be an inquiry into the disaster starting in May, led by Lord Justice Taylor.

00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:39.039
Naturally, after reading what happened in the sun, Trevor and Jenny were very skeptical.

00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:39.679
Right.

00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:42.880
When Thatcher, this one also chops my ass.

00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:49.280
When Thatcher made her way to Trevor and Jenny, Jenny asked her, quote, Mrs.

00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:55.360
Thatcher, can you please ensure that the Taylor inquiry won't be a whitewash?

00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:07.119
Thatcher paused, put her arm around Jenny's shoulder, and said, quote, again, this is Jenny's quote.

00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:07.760
Yes.

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.320
My dear, a mother's place is in the kitchen filling the fridge with food for Christmas.

00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:18.800
Okay.

00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:24.239
Fuck you, Margaret Thatcher, if that is a true quote.

00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.800
What the fuck does that mean?

00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.760
And what the fuck does it mean at this fucking time?

00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:36.400
Jenny was like, thanks for bringing up Christmas that I'm not gonna be able to spend with my daughters this year.

00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:38.000
Not only that, is fuck you.

00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:39.599
Fuck you, Prime Minister.

00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:42.159
Get the fuck in the kitchen, you piece of shit.

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.639
You don't belong in a fucking man's job, you dumb bitch.

00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:50.239
Is basically what she's saying.

00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:51.199
How awful.

00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:54.239
Like all these people are just not, they're clueless.

00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:55.679
Uh what is it?

00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:57.440
Is it from Austin Powers?

00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:58.719
I believe.

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:00.639
Yeah, I think so.

00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.760
It's like where he's trying to not get like aroused.

00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.400
He's like, Mark, Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day.

00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:08.960
Or what I think it's Austin Powers, right?

00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:12.559
But fuck her.

00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:13.280
Yeah, not all.

00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:15.360
Like, why would she say that?

00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:20.559
That makes no fucking sense in this capacity of what you're dealing with.

00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:24.800
She's literally talking about an inquiry.

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:28.320
Can we can we be assured that this inquiry is is real?

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.559
Yeah, and not a bullshit farce.

00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:32.880
Oh, honey, you belong in the kitchen.

00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:38.079
But what I don't understand about that, this is coming from a fucking woman prime minister.

00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:38.800
Yes.

00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:41.840
Where do you belong then, you dumb piece of shit?

00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:42.639
Yeah.

00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:46.239
Clearly not where you are because you're given that fucking advice?

00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:50.559
Go fuck yourself, you fucking piece of shit.

00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:52.159
Jesus Christ.

00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:55.280
I knew he was gonna get a ride out of the story.

00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:56.639
Well, what the fuck?

00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:00.880
I'm gonna try opening the light logger and see if the salt taints it.

00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:02.159
It will.

00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:07.840
But no, I mean, how how can somebody uh in that position?

00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:09.199
Oh, that's okay for me.

00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:10.800
Well, yeah, you know, salt.

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:11.599
You like salt too.

00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:12.400
That's good though.

00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:12.880
I like it.

00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:16.159
I think for Christmas, I'm gonna get you and Nathan a salt lick.

00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:21.280
But it's like, well, how how could somebody in that position being a female?

00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:22.960
Well, maybe she wasn't really a female.

00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:24.000
I don't fucking know.

00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:26.559
Because she apparently says the dumbest shit.

00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.599
That is so dumb.

00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:29.679
And it's just what are you fucking saying here?

00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:31.199
You belong in the kitchen?

00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.599
My fucking daughters just died.

00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:37.280
We were fucking what's the word I'm looking for?

00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:41.199
Uh shit on in the press.

00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:46.239
Yes, that it was all of our faults, everybody who was involved in that from Liverpool.

00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:47.039
Yes.

00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.440
And they literally said they did unspeakable things to the dead bodies.

00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:54.079
What the fuck is that nonsense?

00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.400
And fun fact on the sun.

00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:57.119
Yeah.

00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.559
To this day in Liverpool, the sun is boycotted.

00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:00.960
Good.

00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:01.599
Because of that.

00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:02.159
Good.

00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:02.880
Fuck them.

00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:03.679
Yeah.

00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.480
Uh media, am I right?

00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:06.800
Yeah.

00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:09.360
Fucking biased bullshit piece of crap.

00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:16.159
So the Taylor report comes out by January of 1990.

00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:19.679
So eight months later, roughly.

00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.440
The report didn't just look at what happened that day.

00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:26.159
Uh, the report is also going to be in our show notes.

00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:26.719
Cool.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:31.519
Um, it pulled the whole system apart piece by piece.

00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:32.480
As it should.

00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:39.199
It laid out how the disaster wasn't caused by rowdy fans, but by a chain of failures.

00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:47.280
Poor crowd control, too few turnstiles, the decision to open gate C without redirecting people.

00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:51.920
So it wasn't just about opening the gate, it was about closing off the tunnel.

00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:52.400
Yeah.

00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:53.119
Yeah.

00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:57.519
Um, and the stadium design that trapped people in these pens.

00:54:57.920 --> 00:54:58.559
Yeah.

00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:06.719
So it also called out how long it took to recognize it as a medical emergency, not just a crowd issue.

00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:08.960
An unruly fan crowd issue, yeah.

00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:21.519
And then it went further, recommending major changes like removing fences and converting stadiums to all cedars that would permanently reshape football in England.

00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.199
And how how it's yeah, yeah, viewed, if you will.

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:34.000
So basically, it placed blame with evidence and for the first time put responsibility where it actually belonged onto the authorities.

00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:36.719
Was it Duckenfeld?

00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:37.920
Do you get fucked?

00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:38.639
Duckenfield.

00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:39.679
Duckenfield.

00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:40.960
No.

00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:42.800
Fuck that guy.

00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:49.840
Trevor and Jenny, who were at the inquiry and were um witnesses, like they had to actually like speak.

00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:50.480
Good.

00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:52.000
Became optimistic.

00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:54.000
This is exactly what needed to happen.

00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:54.480
Yeah.

00:55:54.639 --> 00:56:00.880
Um, they were optimistic that prosecution of the police and the other higher-ups were surely imminent.

00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:14.480
Instead, because while the report established what had gone wrong, it did not assign criminal responsibility and it did not bring accountability in the way that they needed.

00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:19.280
It explained the disaster, but not how to resolve it.

00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:24.639
There were suggestions made, but they have to agree and do these suggestions, right?

00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:25.599
Oh dear.

00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:27.920
So fabulous report.

00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:30.079
It just didn't do enough.

00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:30.639
Okay.

00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:35.840
Then in the August of 1990 came another blow.

00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:38.480
Cat feet.

00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:40.239
There's like a little cat pall underneath it.

00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:41.119
Hey, Oliver.

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.360
I see part of his either face or tail, but either way.

00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:46.400
He's so cute.

00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:47.519
He's so cute.

00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:56.960
The Crown Prosecution Service announced that there would be no criminal charges brought in connection with the disaster.

00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:09.199
Despite the findings of the Taylor report, despite the scale of what had happened, the conclusion was that there was insufficient evidence to meet the threshold required for prosecution.

00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:12.639
That's just saving people's asses, is all that's saying.

00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.519
And that's that's what's wrong with this fucking world.

00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:17.760
1989, 90, whatever.

00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:19.840
Today doesn't fucking matter.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:26.960
They will find a fucking loophole, a way around just to be like, nah, no, no blame can be put on these people.

00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:29.039
That's what's fucking wrong with this world.

00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:32.880
And the other side on the flip side of it, this world is sue happy.

00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:36.320
Like the person who sued because my my McDonald's coffee was too hot.

00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:37.679
You got a fucking coffee.

00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:39.760
Yeah, it's hot beverage.

00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:41.280
So I get it.

00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:42.559
They're trying to like balance that.

00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:43.599
There's no balance.

00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.719
It's gonna be fucked either way, and that's horseshit.

00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:47.199
Yeah.

00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.039
So can they sue them?

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:51.199
Do a civil suit or something like that?

00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:53.280
So they do end up doing stuff like that.

00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:53.760
Good.

00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:54.719
I will continue.

00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:55.599
That's fine.

00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:05.519
So all the families are in agreement that this at this time they needed a support group for each other, and they needed justice after this damning son article.

00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:06.159
Yeah.

00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:10.960
Trevor was voted chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group.

00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:11.760
Nice.

00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:13.119
Excuse me.

00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:14.559
This group.

00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:17.440
I don't remember if you mentioned this, and I apologize to interrupt.

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:19.679
How old were Trevor at Jenny?

00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:22.239
I don't think I have that information.

00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:22.719
Okay.

00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:26.559
I was I'm curious because daughters were 15 and 19.

00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:27.360
So there's a group of things.

00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.039
I'm guessing they're in their 30s.

00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:30.400
Late 30s, maybe.

00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:32.400
Maybe early 40s at this time.

00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:32.880
Yeah.

00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:33.280
Okay.

00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:34.800
Just we're not sure.

00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:35.360
No.

00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:37.679
But I was just I did not, I did not research that.

00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:38.880
I was I was just curious.

00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:39.280
Yeah.

00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:40.079
Yeah.

00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:47.440
Um, the group became the central voice for the families, loved ones who refused to accept the current narrative.

00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:48.000
Right.

00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:57.280
They pushed to access documents, challenged legal decisions, and kept the issue in the public eye at a time that it might otherwise fade.

00:58:57.519 --> 00:58:57.760
Sure.

00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:01.119
Okay, so this group lasted a long time.

00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:02.000
I bet.

00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:08.719
By the autumn of 1990, something started to happen that at first looked like progress.

00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:09.760
And then not.

00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:18.480
In October, South Yorkshire police m set moved to settle civil claims brought by families of those who had been injured.

00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:18.960
Oh.

00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:22.639
And in doing that, they admitted negligence.

00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:23.519
Yeah, they did.

00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:28.079
They acknowledged that they failed in their duty to care for the people who came to that match.

00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:28.559
Yep.

00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:30.800
On paper, super big deal.

00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:32.800
It's an admission that something went wrong.

00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:33.199
Right.

00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.599
And responsibility existed.

00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:36.159
Yep.

00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:40.960
But the for the families wasn't quite the moment they needed.

00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:43.039
No, it's kind of like a shitty way out.

00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:45.039
So like, yeah, we'll just settle this up.

00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:46.960
Yeah, we're we're we're wrong.

00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:47.920
Uh, here's the money.

00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:50.239
However, how it like is perceived.

00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:50.559
Yeah.

00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:52.000
But it's like, no, no, no, no.

00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:53.920
We need fucking change on this.

00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:54.159
Yeah.

00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:58.480
And like actual fucking admittance to you fucked up.

01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:12.480
But it's happening in a legal setting where liability can be accepted without fully explaining how or why things failed.

01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:13.119
Correct.

01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:16.239
There's no full public reckoning attached to it.

01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:16.719
Nope.

01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:19.679
There's no clear breakdown of responsibility.

01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:20.159
Nope.

01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:27.280
So what you end up with is an acknowledgement in one place and uncertainty in the public.

01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:28.239
Correct.

01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:36.559
So then on November 19th, 1990, the first inquests open in Sheffield, led by the coroner, Dr.

01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:37.760
Stefan Popper.

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:48.000
This is supposed to be the process that establishes how people died, the official record, the part where the story gets written down in a way that's that's meant to last.

01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:48.559
Right.

01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:49.119
Okay.

01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:57.840
Now, all or most of the people who passed died of compressional asphyxiation.

01:00:58.159 --> 01:00:58.480
Sure.

01:00:58.639 --> 01:00:58.960
Okay.

01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:00.239
Which makes total sense.

01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:00.800
Yes.

01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:03.440
But almost immediately the narrative shifts.

01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:04.480
Oh fuck.

01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:16.239
South Yorkshire police return to the idea that the supporters themselves played a role, pointing to late arrivals, alcohol consumption.

01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:23.360
See, that's just that's just fucking grasping at straws and trying to place blame off of yourself.

01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:27.039
Okay, so what if they arrive late?

01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:34.079
You still you should still have a fucking goddamn pro uh process.

01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:35.039
Process, thank you.

01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:36.000
Jesus Christ.

01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:40.559
And getting these fans in their proper fucking areas.

01:01:41.360 --> 01:01:44.480
You could come three hours early, five minutes late.

01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:45.760
It doesn't fucking matter.

01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:46.320
Nope.

01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.760
So fuck off.

01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:48.400
Yep.

01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:50.800
Jesus Christ.

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:58.000
So it's a version of events that doesn't line up with what has already been laid out in that Taylor uh report.

01:01:58.159 --> 01:01:58.800
Yeah.

01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:05.199
It becomes part of what's can uh of what's being considered because it's a public declaration.

01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:05.679
Sure.

01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:11.039
So within the space of a few weeks, the family, the families heard two completely different things.

01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:17.840
First, there is an admission that there were failures, and now they are returned to the the blame game.

01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:25.119
Yeah, which again, Duckinfield and all those other dumb fucks are just trying to push it off of themselves, is what it is.

01:02:26.239 --> 01:02:28.960
So additional inquests move forward.

01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:37.840
In those proceedings, a decision was made that would come to define the next two decades for the fight for justice.

01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:38.800
Good lord.

01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:42.559
There was a cutoff time of 3.15 p.m.

01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:54.559
The reasoning behind that was roughly 15 minutes after the match began, those who had died had already suffered injuries that were beyond saving.

01:02:56.079 --> 01:03:08.159
So on that basis, the inquest would not consider evidence from after 315, effectively removing any examination that had happened during the rescue effort.

01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.159
But see, that's and that's horseshit.

01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:12.000
How could you save how can you do that?

01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.440
Because you're obviously they couldn't even get to these people yet.

01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:18.880
So that's just again, hey, how do we fuck everybody?

01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:22.000
We cut it off at this time, nothing after that fucking matters.

01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:22.239
Yeah.

01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:24.000
Go fuck yourself.

01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:25.760
Ooh, that was from the depths.

01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:26.880
That was from the depths.

01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:27.760
Excuse me.

01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:42.000
So what that meant in practice was that questions about the emergency response, about how quickly they arrived, about whether they could have done more, about whether lives might have been saved were no longer part of the official story.

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:43.760
That's fucking horseshit.

01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:47.760
And everything behind it was treated as if it did not matter.

01:03:48.000 --> 01:04:01.199
So it took a complex, unfolding disaster and reduced it to a fixed moment in time, closing off the possibility that failures after the crush itself had contributed to the outcome.

01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:09.840
So it meant that they so it meant that even as they pushed for answers, there were entire parts of the story that they were not allowed to talk about.

01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:15.519
By early 1991, the inquest had been running for months.

01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:24.800
And on March 28th, two years after the disaster, that process reached its conclusion.

01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:30.639
Their jury returns a majority verdict of accidental death.

01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.199
Do you realize that was 35 years ago today?

01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:37.199
35 years ago today.

01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:41.679
That's gonna be the end of part one of the Hillsborough Disaster.

01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.679
Accidental death.

01:04:58.480 --> 01:04:58.800
Yeah.

01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:01.199
Because that's what I wanted.

01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:08.719
And it's because of your negligence and fucking running this fucking place properly, you're gonna tell me it was just accidental?

01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:09.840
Again.

01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:15.119
Uppers placing blame on lowers is what it is.

01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:22.079
Yeah, people in authority blaming people who are not authority.

01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:28.960
That was the first part of the Debbie Downer episode.

01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:30.159
Welp?

01:05:30.559 --> 01:05:31.519
I suppose.

01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:33.280
Alright, buffoons.

01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:34.639
That's it for today's episode.

01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:39.039
Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time.

01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:41.440
Feeling hungry for more buffoonery?

01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:46.400
Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:48.079
Hit us up on social media.

01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:52.880
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01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.360
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01:05:57.519 --> 01:05:59.679
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01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:05.360
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01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:08.880
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01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:11.760
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.