March 9, 2026

Life After Death: Henrietta Lacks

Life After Death: Henrietta Lacks
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A routine biopsy. An unstoppable cell line. A legacy that reshaped medicine while raising questions we still struggle to answer. We tell the story of Henrietta Lacks—her life in Virginia and Maryland, her fight against an aggressive cervical cancer, and the fateful moment when doctors at Johns Hopkins sent a tiny sample to George Gey’s lab. Those cells refused to die. Labeled HeLa, they divided at extraordinary speed, unlocking reproducible experiments that accelerated virology, genetics, oncology, and more.

We dig into why HeLa is “immortal”—from cancer biology and HPV-18 to high telomerase activity—and trace how this line powered the polio vaccine, rode early rockets to space, and helped standardize testing for chemotherapy, radiation effects, and viral infection. Alongside the breakthroughs, we unpack the contamination crisis that revealed HeLa overtaking other cultures, and the call to Henrietta’s family decades later that exposed a painful truth: none of them had been asked, informed, or included.

The heart of this story is ethical as much as scientific. We talk about consent, ownership, and profit—how mid-century norms treated tissues as byproducts, how industry monetized HeLa, and why recognition and fair practices matter for trust in research. From Rebecca Skloot’s The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks to a recent settlement with a biotech company, Henrietta’s name has finally moved from the margins to the center, where it belongs.

Join us for a candid, curious journey through the science and the stakes. If this episode moved you or made you think differently about medical research, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help others find the show.

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00:00 - Meet The History Buffoons

00:55 - Beers Poured, Topic Teased

03:05 - Henrietta’s Early Life In Virginia

06:05 - Family, Marriage, And Moving North

09:34 - Symptoms And Johns Hopkins Visit

11:05 - The Tumor Sample And Gey’s Lab

14:05 - Why HeLa Cells Wouldn’t Die

17:05 - Treatment, Decline, And Death

19:45 - HeLa Scales Up And Ships Worldwide

22:20 - Polio Vaccine And Space Research

25:10 - Contamination Crisis And Discovery

27:10 - The Family Learns, Ethics Emerge

30:10 - Consent, Ownership, And Profit

33:10 - Recognition, The Book, And Legacy

36:00 - Modern Lawsuits And Settlements

38:05 - Closing Thoughts And Resources

51:39 - Sign-Off And Listener Requests

WEBVTT

00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:16.640
Oh, hey there.

00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:17.839
Oh, hey there.

00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:19.600
Wow, that's some energy.

00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:20.239
Yeah.

00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:22.239
I was not expecting it.

00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:22.879
Bam.

00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:24.960
We are the History Buffoons.

00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:25.760
I'm Kate.

00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.960
I'm Bradley.

00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:28.960
And this is the History Buffoons.

00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.199
Like I just fucking said.

00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:32.640
How are you?

00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:33.359
I am well.

00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:33.920
How are you?

00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:34.799
I'm doing well.

00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:35.359
Excellent.

00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:36.640
What do you got for us today?

00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:40.880
Um, we are gonna talk about Henrietta Lax.

00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:42.640
Lax, like L-A-X.

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L-A-C-K-S.

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And her cells.

00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:50.159
Like prison cells?

00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:50.640
Nope.

00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:51.840
Like body cells.

00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:52.399
Oh.

00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.200
I know.

00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.079
Interesting.

00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:54.640
All right.

00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:55.280
I know.

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Um before we get to our drinks, if you guys like what you hear, please like, follow, subscribe, all that good stuff.

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Also, if you go to our website, History Buffoons Podcast, and uh feel so inclined to help support the show.

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We have a link up top.

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You can help uh donate just minimal amounts just to help us to keep doing research and equipment and all that stuff.

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We greatly appreciate each and every one of our followers and anyone new to uh our uh our show.

00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:27.760
So what he said.

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I reiterate what he said, ditto.

00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:40.159
Anyways, okay, so we picked up some three sheeps, which we have had on the podcast before.

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I don't remember um I don't remember if I've had this on the podcast.

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I oh dear, I might have, but I know you've had fresh coast before.

00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:48.959
Yes, and I like fresh coast.

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You do.

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But this is a Sheboygan, Wisconsin um beer, and it was probably one of the first beers.

00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:02.079
Nope, probably one of the first um breweries that Nathan and I have gone to when we first moved here.

00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:06.719
Yep, and so I have Chaos Pattern, it's uh hazy IPA.

00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:10.719
I also have because we bought a variety pack just to kind of accommodate both.

00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:12.719
So it comes with a rotating one.

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I've got bad boy.

00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:16.960
That was the rotating one, yeah.

00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.039
Black wheat ale, which I'm not oh interesting, yeah.

00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.319
So I'm kind of curious.

00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:24.960
Um is there was there three each?

00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:25.520
Yes.

00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:27.280
Okay, so maybe I'll try one.

00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:27.840
Yeah.

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Um black wheat, though.

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I'm just I'm curious because I've had like a black IPA.

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I've never had anything other than that, though.

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Do you think they burned the wheat?

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Oh my god.

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Open your fucking beard.

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Jesus.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:47.599
Oh, that's still good.

00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:49.439
So same.

00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:50.719
Same.

00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:52.159
It's so good.

00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.680
Well, and it's funny because you're not usually uh pale ale, and this is two weeks back at the back.

00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.080
You've had pale ale's as your uh podcast beer, so we're getting you there.

00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:03.039
This is the way.

00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.280
Don't worry about okay.

00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.240
All right, so let's talk about who what's her name again?

00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:09.680
It's Miss Henrietta Lax.

00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:10.719
Henrietta Lax.

00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.199
Yeah.

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L A C K S.

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Yeah, she was born in 1920.

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Oh dear.

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In Roanoke, Virginia.

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Hey.

00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:23.360
But she spent most of her childhood in a small farming community in Clover, Virginia.

00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.360
Okay, and life there revolved around tobacco farming.

00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:27.919
Sure.

00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:35.439
And uh families who worked long days planting and tending and harvesting just to keep that economy alive, right?

00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:36.240
Right, right, right, right.

00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.560
So Henry Henrietta grew up in where in a world where everybody worked all the time.

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Okay.

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Children helped in fields, neighbors de Yes.

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I work all the time.

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I know.

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You work all the time.

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I do.

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I think we still live in that world.

00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:50.240
I know.

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Anyways.

00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:52.639
How did that happen?

00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:56.319
Well, you know, we can get into it, but that's for another show.

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Economy.

00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:57.599
Sorry.

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I didn't mean to interrupt.

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That's okay.

00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:08.639
Um, so sh children helped in the fields, neighbors depending on each other, and most families lived s uh simple lives, which was tied closely to their land.

00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:10.719
Well, yeah, especially back in the twenties.

00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:16.399
I mean, it's not like they could hey Ma, I'm gonna hop on the interwebs and look up some porn.

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I mean, or whatever they would look up, I guess.

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So they had a lot less.

00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.199
I looked up the spice girls when I was younger.

00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:25.600
Yeah, that was me.

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Why?

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Because I wasn't supposed to, so I did.

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Oh, scandalous.

00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:31.680
Yeah.

00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:38.480
I remember on our senior trip to Canada, we went to Toronto for a jazz band thing.

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And um, or no, it wasn't just jazz band, it was the whole band.

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Whole band.

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And um my old buddy Garrett bought a poster of what's her name?

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Jerry Hollowell.

00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:52.560
Oh ginger spice.

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Ginger in a scantily clad outfit on poster.

00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:57.360
But yeah, I remember he bought that up in Canada.

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She's so pretty.

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Oh, she still is.

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Oh my gosh.

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Like she's got like minimal makeup and stuff, and her hair's more natural and everything.

00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:05.439
Oh, she's so pretty.

00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:06.879
No, she is a very pretty person.

00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:12.079
And she was very to a well, I think he was he's a year younger than me.

00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:12.800
17.

00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:17.199
I was 18 at the time, even to a 17 and 8-year-old, she was quite fetching.

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Which is why she was called sexy spice.

00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:23.040
Or ginger.

00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:25.120
No, she was sexy spice.

00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.720
No, she was ginger spice.

00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:28.399
Are you sure?

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Look it the fuck up.

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Come on now.

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I grew up with the spice girl.

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You literally looked the spice girls up online.

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There isn't a sexy spice.

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Are you sure?

00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:46.879
There's sporty spice, baby spice, ginger spice, um, scary spice, and then one other spice.

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Posh.

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Posh Jerry, babe, shit.

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It's ginger spice.

00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:53.199
I told you.

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Where did I come up with sexy spice?

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Because she's sexy.

00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:57.759
She is, I guess.

00:05:58.720 --> 00:05:59.759
My apologies.

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:00.560
Yeah, you should.

00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:01.680
You should be apologizing for her.

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.439
Apologies, Miss Jerry Hallowell.

00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:04.560
That that's her name, right?

00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:05.279
Jerry Hallowell.

00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:05.519
Yeah.

00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:05.920
Right.

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.160
Okay.

00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:06.879
Anyway.

00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.040
We got sidetracked by the Spice Girls.

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Look at us go.

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Anyways.

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We're gonna flip the switch here.

00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:14.000
Yeah.

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Um, Henrietta's mother died when Henrietta was still a young child, and um her family ended up moving.

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Um, there was like, I don't know, five, ten of them.

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I don't know.

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There was a bunch of kids.

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Quite a range.

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Let's just say seven, call it call it uneven.

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But the family was then separated in between other family members because the father was like, This is a lot.

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You can't do it.

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So hey, Uncle uh, whatever.

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And I don't and it wasn't anything bad, it's just what had to be at the time.

00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:48.480
No, it's just that's how they made it work.

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Yeah, and that's understandable.

00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:50.879
Exactly.

00:06:50.959 --> 00:07:01.439
So Henrietta ended up living with her grandfather in a small cabin that had once been used as slave quarters on the very same land where generations before had been forced to work.

00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:02.160
Sure.

00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:12.800
So it was here that Henrietta grew up alongside her cousin, uh David, or Day, they called him Day as in D A Y, um, Lax.

00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:13.759
Okay.

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Over their time, the two cousins became close.

00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:19.600
More than cousins.

00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.160
Oh, but they were were they first cousins?

00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.120
Uh, you know, I don't know.

00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:27.759
Or were they second cousins twice removed?

00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:29.920
Or what we're gonna say they're first cousins.

00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:36.959
I grew up going up north to my aunt and uncles a lot.

00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:46.000
There is a certain man and woman that I know in my life who's related somehow to the family.

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They're first cousins.

00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:48.240
Yeah.

00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:48.720
Yeah.

00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:49.120
Yeah.

00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:49.839
It's a thing.

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They married.

00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:51.199
Yep.

00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:51.600
Yep.

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Married.

00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.120
Um, you should hear my cousin do his laugh.

00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:56.079
It's fucking hilarious.

00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.360
He's got such a weird laugh, and she she does it perfectly.

00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:00.800
At least used to.

00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.279
I don't I'm sure she still does, but anyways.

00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.000
So Henrietta and Day fell in love and they started a family together.

00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.319
They had two kids, and then they got married.

00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.160
Oh, scandalous for that time for me.

00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:13.199
Yeah, yeah.

00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.879
Um, but by the time that Henrietta reached adulthood, she and Day had a couple more children.

00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:20.319
I think she had five in total.

00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:21.199
Oh, wow.

00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:23.439
Life wasn't easy, but it was stable.

00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:24.079
Okay.

00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:26.240
I'm so sorry, keep her, but it's all the mirror.

00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:27.120
It's all right.

00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:36.159
The fields provided work, the community was close-knit, and rural Virginia had a steady predictability to them, which a lot of people really liked.

00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:36.720
Sure.

00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:42.399
And during the 1940s, opportunity opportunities pulled many families north.

00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:46.559
There were steel mills around Baltimore that were hiring.

00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:52.240
And the jobs were promised as more of a reliable income over farming.

00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:52.799
Yeah.

00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:59.679
And like many others looking for better prospects, Henrietta and Day packed up their family and moved to Maryland.

00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:00.240
Oh, okay.

00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:06.720
And they settled in a town called uh Turner's Station, just outside of Baltimore.

00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.440
All right.

00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:13.759
Now, Turner Station was a place where many black families found work connected to the steel industry.

00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:20.720
The houses were modest, but the streets were busy with ch children playing outside and neighbors looking out for one another.

00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.440
And Henrietta quickly became known for her warmth and her lively personality.

00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:25.919
All right.

00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:33.200
Friends remembered her as someone who loved to laugh, someone who enjoyed dancing, dressing well, and spending time with her family.

00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:33.679
Okay.

00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.919
By early 1951, something began to feel wrong.

00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:38.399
Uh-oh.

00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:43.840
Henrietta started experiencing unusual bleeding and pain in her abdomen.

00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:44.559
Oh boy.

00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:46.639
At first, she tried to ignore it.

00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.039
Um, doctor visits were expensive.

00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:49.519
Sure.

00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:55.279
Life had a way of put pushing prof uh personal health concerns to the bottom of the priority list.

00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:56.080
I need to say it.

00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:57.039
I still do that today.

00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:06.159
I was just gonna say there's nothing, nothing different in today's world because freaking anything is so expensive.

00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:11.200
And it's insurance, co-pays, out of pocket, well on this thing, network, out of network.

00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:19.200
Like you have you pay insurance every fucking paycheck, but yet you still gotta pay it out of your ass for these companies.

00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:25.120
And like I'm ever since my dad passed away, I am not a fan of health insurance.

00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:25.600
Yeah.

00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:33.200
Um and then you have to give buy prescriptions and yeah, just one if you're in a hospital state, don't ask for ibuprofen, it's gonna cost you 300 fucking dollars.

00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:33.519
Yeah.

00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.600
And you could go to the store and buy a whole bottle for nine bucks or whatever the fuck it is.

00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:38.000
Yeah.

00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:39.759
Anyways, let's give us that.

00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.360
She pushed her pain aside, but that it never went away.

00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.639
So eventually Henrietta decided she did need medical help.

00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:47.039
Sure.

00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:53.039
She made the trip to Baltimore and walked into the gynecology clinic at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:53.440
Yeah.

00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:58.480
At the time, Hopkins was one of the few hospitals in the region that would treat black people.

00:10:58.799 --> 00:10:59.279
Oh, okay.

00:10:59.519 --> 00:10:59.919
Yeah.

00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.440
So that's wild.

00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.480
This was a very important place for many families.

00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.080
So during the examination, the doctor found something.

00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:08.559
Uh oh.

00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:15.279
Inside Henrietta's uh cervix was a tumor unlike anything he'd seen before.

00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:26.159
It was hard, it was purple, it bled easily when touched, and a small sample of the tumor was taken for testing, like marble size, I believe.

00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:26.720
Okay.

00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:38.879
So this small piece of tissue taken from Henry Henrietta's tumor did not go directly into a microscope slide or a pathology report or the bin, whatever.

00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:39.679
It's a bin.

00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:49.679
Instead, part of it was sent down the hall to a research laboratory run by a cell biologist named George Otto Gay, G-E-Y.

00:11:50.639 --> 00:12:00.240
Gay has spent years chasing a this one scientific goal, and that was to grow human cells outside the body.

00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:00.799
Okay.

00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:06.879
Scientists could grow some animal cells in culture dishes, but human cells were rather stubborn.

00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.519
They divided a few times and then they died.

00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.320
And every experiment hit the same wall.

00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:12.799
Okay.

00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:20.000
So cells simply refused to survive long in an artificial environment in a laboratory.

00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:20.399
Yeah.

00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:31.919
But if research could research just if researchers could grow living human cells reliably, it could change everything.

00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:37.840
They could test medicine, study diseases, experiments without having to rely on human subjects.

00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.399
So Gay and his team tried again and again.

00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:51.600
And whenever a patient came through the hospital with surgery or a biopsy, small samples of tissues might would be sent to this research lab.

00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:52.159
Okay.

00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:58.879
And most of those samples died fairly quickly, but Henrietta's did not survive.

00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:00.320
They survived.

00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:11.600
So when the sample of her tumor arrived at the lab, technicians placed the cells in a glass culture with a nutrient mixture designed to help them grow.

00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:12.080
Okay.

00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:13.200
And they waited.

00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.919
And at first everything seemed usual.

00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:23.279
Um both but soon it's like it would multiply a couple times, which is generally the same as regular human cells.

00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:23.679
Yeah.

00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:28.799
But soon they noticed that the cells just kept dividing and kept dividing and kept dividing.

00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:36.240
And day after day, instead of slowing down like the other human cells that they're used to, these ones multiplied rapidly.

00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:37.200
They grew.

00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:38.080
Yeah, go ahead.

00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:42.799
Is this attributed to Henrietta herself or what the tumor was?

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:44.159
I think it was both.

00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:44.639
Okay.

00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:45.279
Yes.

00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:51.440
Um, so one, it is cancer cells, and cancer cells um they like to spread fast.

00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:55.039
They spread fast and unevenly.

00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:55.759
Yeah.

00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:12.639
Um, but there was also it could have been a number of factors, and I actually um looked this up because um it was really confusing to me as to why hers were so different than everybody else's, but it was potentially in regards to a bunch of other things.

00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.919
Wow, okay.

00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:23.360
Um, so her cells were cancerous, so they divided rapidly, um, and they would ignore like the normal, normal growth limits.

00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:28.960
Um, they wouldn't stop dividing if there was crowding of the cell.

00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.200
Um, her tumor was extremely aggressive.

00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:38.159
Um, and she also had HPV.

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:39.519
Yeah, what is that again?

00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:40.480
I've definitely heard of it.

00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:40.799
I know.

00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.840
HPV is human papillomavirus.

00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.480
Um, she specifically it's warts.

00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:46.799
Oh.

00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.279
You can get genital warts, you can get foot warts.

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:49.840
Yeah.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:57.519
Um, I think hers were more genital warts, but they could not figure out where they came from, and they actually didn't know it was HPV at this time.

00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:58.559
At that time, sure.

00:14:58.799 --> 00:14:58.960
Okay.

00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:05.200
Um, but she had HPV 18, which is one of the most aggressive causing um cancer-causing strains.

00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:06.480
Oh, Jesus.

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:20.159
And then um her cells also produced something called uh telomerase, telomerase, um I'm reading this.

00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:29.759
So Henrietta cells produced high amounts of this telemerase, which is an enzyme that rebuilds chromosomal ends.

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.320
Oh.

00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:48.240
So because this telomerase develops quicker and more, yeah, this allowed the cells to avoid the normal biological aging process when the ends of their chromosomes would eventually wear down.

00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:49.840
Hers never worn down.

00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:50.799
That's crazy.

00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:51.360
Okay.

00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:56.480
And then there also has to be like perfect lab conditions.

00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:57.360
Oh, I'm sure.

00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:57.600
Yeah.

00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:58.000
Yes.

00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:02.480
So like all of these things boosted that reproduction.

00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:03.279
All right.

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.960
I feel so smart.

00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:07.440
I read it all.

00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:08.000
I know.

00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.639
I was I was I was gonna say something, but I was just gonna try and let it go, but no, no.

00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:18.399
So day after day, instead of slowing down like other human cells, these multiplied rapidly.

00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:18.879
Okay.

00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:24.000
They grew thick in the culture dish, forming layers upon layers of living cells.

00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:31.039
It was something the lap had never seen before, um, as most human cells would die after about 50 divisions.

00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:31.679
Right.

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:36.559
So it's like biologically built into our DNA to die.

00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.919
So scientists didn't fully understand it yet, but every experiment seemed to confirm it.

00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.799
Henrietta's cells ignored these rules completely.

00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.639
They continued um dividing without stopping.

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.519
That's wild.

00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.720
And Gay realized almost immediately what this meant.

00:16:52.879 --> 00:17:00.960
For the first time, scientists might have access to a stable, self-replicating human cell line.

00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.000
Cells that could grow indefinitely in the lab.

00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:04.559
Right.

00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:14.400
So to label the culture, the lab followed a simple naming system using the first letters letters of the patient's first name and last name.

00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.920
So short for Henrietta Lax, it's Gila.

00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:19.279
Okay.

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:25.279
So Gila cells would soon become soon become very, very famous.

00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:25.839
Oh.

00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.000
So at the time, Henrietta herself has no idea that this is happening.

00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:30.720
Of course.

00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.960
She was focused on something much more immediate like fighting her own cancer.

00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:35.519
Yeah.

00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.559
Doctors began treating her with radium therapy.

00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:39.200
Oh no.

00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.480
One of the primary cancer treatments available at the time.

00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.079
Did her draw fall off?

00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:44.720
No.

00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:45.599
Thank God.

00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:46.160
I know.

00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:47.279
If you know, you know.

00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:56.079
Small glass tubes containing radioactive material were inserted near the tumor in an attempt to destroy the cancerous cells.

00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:56.559
Wow.

00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.680
The treatments were really painful and really exhausting.

00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:00.319
Yep.

00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:08.000
Meanwhile, back in Gay's laboratory, Henrietta cells continued doing something no other cells have done before.

00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:09.440
They thrived.

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.359
Don't tell me like another Henrietta just started walking out of the lab.

00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.119
Wouldn't that be so spectacular?

00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:16.640
And fucking creepy.

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:17.920
It's true.

00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:19.759
Just saying.

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:28.079
The cells multiplied so quickly that soon there were more than there were more than the small lab could reasonably use.

00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:28.720
Okay.

00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:39.759
So tubes filled with Gila cells began accumulating in incubators and refrigerators, and Gay realized the discovery was too important to keep to himself.

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:40.880
That is different.

00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:41.680
What is it?

00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.839
It's that black wheat ale.

00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:44.480
Mm-hmm.

00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.440
Ooh, it's a it's a dark, dark beer.

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:48.160
Is it?

00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:48.559
Yeah.

00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.000
We should give one to Nathan.

00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:51.279
Oh, you like it up?

00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:52.160
Maybe.

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:52.559
I don't know.

00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:59.599
Could I know he's more into stouts and porters, but not ales as much, but interesting.

00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:00.319
Yeah.

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.720
So uh Gay realized that it it was too important to keep to himself.

00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:12.240
So if these cells could survive shipments, scientists around the world could use them for research.

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:12.720
Right.

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:19.200
So the lab began packing small vials of Gila cells and mailing them to researchers across the country.

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:20.799
And did they survive?

00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:21.599
They did.

00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:22.240
Crazy.

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:27.440
Um, Henrietta Lax, though, um, was still lying in the hospital fighting for her life.

00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:30.160
The cancer was extremely um aggressive.

00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah.

00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.880
Despite treatment, the disease spread rapidly through her body.

00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:39.920
Tumors appeared in multiple organs, and the pain became incredibly severe.

00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:40.559
Sad.

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:46.799
And by August of 1951, Henrietta was hospitalized as doctors struggled to manage her symptoms.

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.759
That's sad.

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:54.960
And of course, within the walls of the hospital, her family like watched as this illness took its toll on her.

00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:55.599
Of course.

00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:04.160
Her children were still young, and her husband Day stayed uh Day stayed close by as doctors tried everything they could to help her.

00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.559
Yeah, so she would have been 31 at this time.

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:08.799
October 4th, 1951.

00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:10.319
She died at 31 years old.

00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:11.200
God damn.

00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:12.079
That's sad.

00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:12.880
Yeah.

00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:14.720
That's that's too young.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:19.680
But of course, her tumor cells that were taken did not die.

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:21.759
They were still alive.

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.759
Isn't that almost kind of like a slap in Henrietta's face?

00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.079
It's like, you motherfuckers.

00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:28.640
Yeah.

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.319
You die, I stay alive.

00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:31.680
It's like, what the fuck?

00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:32.720
I got kids, man.

00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:33.599
I'm 31.

00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.200
You're just a cell.

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.240
You're just a cell.

00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:39.920
No, I I felt bad.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.880
Um you just have a powerhouse called the nucleus.

00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.759
Anywho's, I I felt bad.

00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:52.799
There's there's this one guy that I talked to at one of my accounts, my last account today.

00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:58.720
And I always say hi to him, and sometimes I'll give him something extra or whatever I have or whatever might be.

00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:09.440
And and uh uh I was chatting with him today, and his uncle is on his way out through because of cancer, unfortunately.

00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:20.559
Um he had cancer behind his eye, and then apparently, and I'm gonna get everything most of this wrong, but it like spread, something happened in his brain and went down his spinal.

00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:21.599
Oh my gosh.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.039
Spinal cord or whatever.

00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.319
It went down through his his yeah, spinal cord.

00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:39.119
So um he was telling me how like and the the reason why I bring it up, I'm not I don't want to like share other people's personal stories like this, but the reason why I bring it up though is because he was like Monday he was walking around.

00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:42.000
Yesterday they're telling us I'm telling him goodbye.

00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:43.759
It's like Jesus Christ, man.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:50.880
It's so fucking aggressive most times, and like Henrietta's, you know, that just took her pretty quickly, really.

00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:51.279
Yeah.

00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:58.079
A little bit, but it's just we have we have what is it?

00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:08.640
The cancer Society or blah blah blah, whatever thing, which how how have we not come across like any way to fix a lot of these?

00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:09.440
I don't know.

00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.119
Billions of dollars.

00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:11.920
No.

00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:13.599
Just keep keep giving us money.

00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:16.799
Because you know they are like searching around the clock.

00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.400
Hey.

00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.480
Alright, let's move on.

00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.920
So doctors recorded the cause of death as cervical cancer.

00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.400
Okay.

00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.720
Um, an unusually aggressive form that had spread rapidly throughout her body.

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:31.440
Sad.

00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:39.119
Her family buried her in an unmarked grave in the rural tobacco fields of Clover, Virginia, which is where she grew up.

00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.039
But it there is her, I think it was.

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:44.960
Hmm.

00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.799
I think she was buried next to her mother.

00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:49.920
How would they know?

00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.519
Was she unmarked too?

00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:52.079
No.

00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.160
Her her mother has a headstone.

00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.000
Why would she be in an unmarked grave?

00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:56.799
I'm not sure.

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.400
Maybe it was a money thing.

00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:04.000
I mean, sure, I get that, but but she is like super close to where her mother died.

00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.559
And I I believe that's true, and I can look it up here in a bit.

00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.079
That's with something else in the reference, but I mean, still, 31.

00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:10.960
Jesus Christ.

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:11.440
Yeah.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:12.160
Yeah.

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.000
That's terrible.

00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.480
So for the Lax family, life moved forward the way it has to.

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.039
Nope.

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:19.680
Unfortunately.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.160
There were children to raise, bills to pay, and long days of work ahead.

00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.640
Yep.

00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.279
Um, in laboratories across the United States, Henrietta cells were still alive.

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.519
So she's still alive to a degree.

00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:37.039
Inside incubators and glass culture tubes, the Gila cell line continued dividing.

00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:43.039
Scientists quickly realized that these cells were not just youth uh useful, they were revolutionary.

00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.920
How so?

00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:49.119
Requests for Gila cells began arriving faster than the original lab could handle.

00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:49.680
Right.

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:58.000
Um, researchers studying viruses wanted them, cancer specialists wanted them, geneticists wanted them.

00:23:58.160 --> 00:23:58.720
Oh, yeah.

00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.000
And so her cells became traveling cells.

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:08.079
They were packed in small glass vials surrounded by dry ice and shipped across the country.

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:21.519
They were arriving in laboratories in Europe and Asia and South America, and within just a few years, HELA cells had become one of the most widely used tools in biomedical research ever.

00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:23.039
That's fucking wild.

00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:29.440
Entire laboratories were now growing cultures descended from a woman most of them had never heard of.

00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:30.079
Of course.

00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:39.839
By the mid-1950s, demand for HELA cells had grown so large that specialized production facilities began growing them by the billions.

00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.880
That's so I'm sure you'll probably get to this.

00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:44.480
Are they still around today?

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:44.960
Yes.

00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:46.319
That's fucking wild.

00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:51.200
So for the first time in history, living human cells were being manufactured like a product.

00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:51.759
Yeah.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:58.160
Researchers used them to study cancer cells under radiation exposure during the early years of the Cold War.

00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:03.599
They used them to investigate how viruses infected human tissue.

00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:09.920
They helped scientists understand how cells divide, how they mutate, and how diseases spread through the body.

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:10.640
Crazy.

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:21.359
Some of Henrietta's cells were even placed aboard early research rockets and satellites to observe how human cells behaved in space.

00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.400
That's fucking Henrietta made it to space.

00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:25.119
She did.

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.400
Look at her go.

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.200
But the breakthrough that first captured global attention involved polio.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:34.319
Okay.

00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:41.200
Throughout the first half of the 20th century, polio outbreaks struck communities and with frightening speed.

00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:47.119
Children who had been healthy one week were suddenly would suddenly lose the ability to walk the next.

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.039
Is this how we cured polio?

00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.119
Hospitals filled with rows of iron lungs helping patients breathe.

00:25:55.359 --> 00:26:08.319
Scientists were racing to develop a vaccine, but test but testing one safely required enormous quantities of human cells until they reached GELA cells.

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:08.720
Yeah.

00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:18.000
Because the cells grew so rapidly, research could grow the poliovirus inside them and test whether experimental vaccines stopped the infection.

00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.240
If it didn't work, they'd get more cells.

00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:20.880
Right.

00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:32.559
So when the vaccine developed by Jonas Salk was ready for large-scale testing in 1954, laboratories relied heavily on HELA cells to evaluate the results.

00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:33.519
That's crazy.

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:39.200
Within a few years, the polio vaccine helped bring one of the most feared diseases of the century under control.

00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:41.119
What did what did polio do again?

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.400
What was its symptoms and like what did it make you do?

00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:53.519
So it was basically people would end up in wheelchairs like they can't walk with polio.

00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.000
And I'm sorry, I'm I don't know much more than that.

00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:56.720
That's okay.

00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:01.359
I was I wasn't sure if you did know, but because wasn't it was it FDR who had polio?

00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:07.519
He was in a wheelchair, and nobody knew it because they didn't have TV at the time or something, like it was only radio.

00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:12.319
Isn't that the reason they put the front on the desk of the president of stuff or whatever?

00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:13.359
Something like that.

00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:13.920
Yeah.

00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.640
Um, if that sounds right, I I'm um don't quote me, but that sounds right.

00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.079
Um, it's I was just curious because I I guess I never really knew.

00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:30.240
So few people realize that behind the scientific milestone to stood millions of cells taken from a woman named Henrietta Lax.

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:30.559
Yeah.

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.880
And the discoveries were only just beginning.

00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:39.359
Gela cells so uh soon helped researchers develop early chemotherapy drugs.

00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:40.000
Crazy.

00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.880
They were used to study the effects of radiation and toxic chemicals on human tissue.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:54.960
Excuse me, scientists use them to map chromosomes, investigate viral infections, and understand the basics of cell division.

00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:05.279
And over time, Henrietta cell cells would contribute to researching diseases such as leukemia, influenza, and HIV and AIDS.

00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.079
Jesus.

00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:10.160
So decade after dec decade, her cells kept dividing.

00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:24.799
By some estimates, if every Gila cell ever grown were placed together, their total mass would weigh tens of millions of kilograms.

00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:26.480
How many pounds is that?

00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.240
22 million.

00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:29.519
Oh my god.

00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.200
22 million pounds.

00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:40.640
That is the equivalent of 25 Boeing 747s.

00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.000
For some reason, and I'm drawing a blank on the movie.

00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:48.960
That's a huge bitch.

00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:50.799
Just comes through my brain.

00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:55.119
And I don't mean to call Henrietta that, but that's a lot of cells.

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:56.400
That's a lot of cells.

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.319
That's a lot of Henrietta.

00:28:58.799 --> 00:28:59.440
That's a lot.

00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:00.480
Look at her go.

00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:01.039
I know.

00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.839
And go and grow.

00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.799
And all of this was taken from a marble-sized biopsy.

00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.240
The fact that, you know, yay big.

00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:16.640
And it's still around today.

00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.759
That's fucking insane.

00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:20.559
Yeah.

00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:21.920
I mean.

00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.359
Wow.

00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:26.559
I mean, Henrietta's been to fucking space.

00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:27.920
Yeah, she has.

00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:29.359
That's crazy.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:35.039
So through all of this scientific progress, there was still something unusual happening.

00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:41.920
The woman whose cells made these breakthroughs possible had disappeared from the narrative.

00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.119
No one knew where these heedless cells came from.

00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:46.640
Well, I mean, over time.

00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.279
Yes.

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.960
They just they call them healless cells.

00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:49.200
They don't.

00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:50.799
Henrietta lacks cells.

00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.839
Yeah, they don't they don't make the connection.

00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:59.039
You know, people are forgotten, even on something this revolutionary.

00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:05.039
Well, her family also had no idea that her cells were being used.

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.240
Oh shit.

00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:12.880
So by the early 1970s, more than 20 years had passed since Henrietta Lex died in the hospital.

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:13.279
Yeah.

00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:19.279
During those two decades, Tila cells had become one of the most widely used tools in biomedical research.

00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.559
Laboratories around the world depended on them.

00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.920
Scientists had published thousands of studies using them.

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:33.119
And um they found something a little bit troubling by the late 1960s.

00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:41.519
Experiments that were supposed to involve different types of human cells were producing identical results.

00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:46.079
At first, scientists assumed that it was coincidence.

00:30:46.319 --> 00:31:01.039
Then a geneticist named Stanley Gartler took a closer look and analyzed several widely used human cell lines and discovered many of them were genetically identical.

00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:01.680
Okay.

00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:09.680
Even though that they were labeled as completely different cell cultures, they all carried the same distinct markers.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:10.559
Interesting.

00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:13.039
They were all Gila cells.

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:13.680
Okay.

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:22.319
GELA cells grew so rapidly that even if a tiny number entered another culture dish, it would take over.

00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:24.319
It would take over the other cells.

00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:25.119
Wow.

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:32.079
Without realizing it, scientists around the world accidentally contaminated their experiments.

00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.960
Yeah.

00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:39.680
So some studies that were supposed to be using normal human tissue were actually studying Gila cells instead.

00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:40.240
Okay.

00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.240
So this was a major problem problem for the scientific community.

00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:45.119
For sure.

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:53.200
Researchers then needed a way to reliably identify which ones were Gila cells and which ones were other cells.

00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.359
Did they dime a different color?

00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:56.720
But yes.

00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160
However, they needed to know which ones were which first.

00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:01.200
Well, of course.

00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:05.359
So they needed genetic information from Henrietta Lax.

00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:09.359
So they needed uh don't tell me they exhumed her.

00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:09.920
No.

00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.400
They got from her first cousin?

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.400
They went to her family.

00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:15.599
Oh dear.

00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.279
They needed to find her family.

00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:27.119
So in 1973, more than 20 years after Henrietta's death, researchers contacted members of the Lax family and asked if they would be willing to provide blood samples.

00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:32.240
To the scientists making the request, it was a routine research question.

00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:32.640
Yeah.

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.799
But to the family receiving the call.

00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.079
They're like, wait, what?

00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:48.799
For decades they had believed that Henrietta's story ended at the hospital, and now they were hearing like, wait, her cells are alive, living in laboratories, growing by the millions, being using experiments.

00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:50.240
What?

00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:54.400
Some family members even struggled to understand what the researchers meant.

00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:01.680
That the idea that part of their mother could still exist decades after her death sounded impossible to them.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.799
Right, of course.

00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:03.599
Yes.

00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:08.480
Others worried actually that doctors were somehow still experimenting on her.

00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.640
So like they kept her in like a secret lab.

00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.680
Yeah, like they were starting to jump to conclusions.

00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.519
Like, what is actually happening here?

00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.519
Because it was just not understood by the lay person.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:22.640
Well, sure.

00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:28.720
So adding to the confusion was the fact that many researchers still refer to the cells as Gila.

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.119
Like they're talking to the family as we need Gila cells.

00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:36.400
Okay, no, we need your mother's cells, whatever.

00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.920
So the information to the family arrived in fragments.

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.519
They were using scientific terms that they've never heard of before.

00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:51.680
Um, phone calls from researchers asking questions and re requests for blood samples without any like explanation.

00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:52.480
Yeah.

00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.759
Slowly, it just didn't match quickly, right?

00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:58.559
Yeah.

00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.440
And another realization started to emerge.

00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:10.719
Henrietta cells had become so extremely valuable to science, yeah, but no one had ever asked permission to take them.

00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:11.360
Right.

00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.639
And no one ever told the family they existed.

00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.519
I feel like a lawsuit's coming on.

00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:25.280
So as the Lex family slowly beginning learning about Gila cells in the 1970s, yeah, another question emerged.

00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:39.280
One that scientists, lawyers, and ethics ethicists, ethicists, people who study ethics, yes, would eventually debate for decades who owned these cells.

00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:42.719
Well, it's funny because a lot of scientists would be like, well, we do.

00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:44.400
It was given to us through the labs.

00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:45.679
Like, no, no, no.

00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:46.239
Yeah.

00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:47.519
They were just given to you.

00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:52.000
You never properly received them, we'll say.

00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:52.320
I don't know.

00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.280
So many people assume the answer would be simple.

00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.159
If the cell cells came from Henrietta Lex, then surely they belonged to her or to her family.

00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:00.639
Right.

00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.400
But medicine had long operated under a different assumption.

00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:05.599
Of course they did.

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:12.159
When doctors remove tissue during treatment, patients don't retain possession of it afterward.

00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:12.719
No.

00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:16.719
But think of like an ordinary tooth extraction.

00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.840
When a dentist removes a molar, the patient typically doesn't take it home as personal property.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.719
Instead, it's treated as personal waste.

00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.440
How do you get it from the tooth fairy then?

00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.280
I know my friend Sam, she has recently had a tooth pulled and she got to take it home.

00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.599
But and did she put it under her pillow?

00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:36.320
I don't think so.

00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.639
In any case, I wouldn't, you know, whatever.

00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:39.679
I wouldn't suggest it.

00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:40.159
No.

00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:44.159
But most of the time it's treated as medical waste.

00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:49.599
And so the same principle applies to tissues removed during surgery or a biopsy.

00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:50.880
But it wasn't waste.

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:57.519
Once the sample leaves the body, it's normally sent to a laboratory or a pathology department for examination.

00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:57.920
Yeah.

00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:02.480
After that, it may be stored, discarded, or used for research.

00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:08.320
And for most of the 20th century, this process happened routinely without much discussion.

00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:16.960
But one issue that had not been addressed when the sample was first taken in 1951 was informed consent.

00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:18.079
Correct.

00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:27.599
So today, patients are asked to sign forms explaining how their medical information and biological samples might be used.

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.000
Right.

00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:38.559
Hospitals and researchers are expected to explain the purpose of procedures and obtain permission before tissue, or excuse me, before using the tissue for research.

00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:39.360
Hi, MS.

00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:41.599
But this, there's another cat in here?

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:45.039
Yeah, he's like, oh, you guys are recording a podcast episode?

00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.079
He's so quiet.

00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:46.960
Oh my goodness.

00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.320
I don't mind him.

00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:48.960
He'll be fine.

00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:49.519
Yeah.

00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.119
So, but the standards in early 1950 were different.

00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:05.599
So when Henrietta was treated at Johns Hopkins Hospital, doctors commonly collected tissue samples during procedures without explicitly asking patients if those samples could be used for research.

00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:06.000
Right.

00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:10.159
It's just how medical science operated at the time.

00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:10.719
Sure.

00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:12.000
Which I which I get.

00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:19.360
You know, I totally understand that, but so to many researchers, the practice seems reasonable.

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:25.039
And studying human tissue helped doctors understand disease and develop treatments that could save lives.

00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:25.840
Excuse me.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:30.320
But from the perspective of the Lax family, the situation looked different.

00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.559
I just want to interject something real quick.

00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:32.800
Yeah.

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:43.599
So like for me with the Lax family, they are clearly being bombarded with these requests, questions, and such and so on.

00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:45.679
It's like, wait a minute.

00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:47.840
Not cool, dude.

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:48.400
Yeah.

00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:52.400
And like, if I were them personally, I'd be like, no.

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.400
Give me some money for it, then I will give you my blood sample.

00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:58.000
Because fuck you.

00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.000
I didn't even know you had my mom's cells.

00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:01.599
Now they're around the fucking world.

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:02.079
Yeah.

00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:02.800
You know?

00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.800
It's it's definitely a tricky gray situation.

00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.639
It is very discolored, yes.

00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.119
Oh.

00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:12.000
Oh, wow.

00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.079
He speaks.

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:15.920
Do you need to get out, buddy?

00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:17.119
If you want out.

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:20.719
He's like, um.

00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.199
Can I pick you up and show the people?

00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.480
You are cute.

00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:25.119
He's like, nope.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:26.880
I said no.

00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.719
Well, oh, okay.

00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.079
He's getting ready.

00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:31.679
It's four o'clock.

00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:33.679
Dinner time is soon.

00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:34.079
Yeah.

00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.159
So my dinner's in two hours.

00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:41.519
So studying human tissue helped doctors understand disease and develop treatments that could save lives.

00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:45.199
But from the perspective of the Lax family, the situation looked different.

00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.000
So for more than 20 years, they had no idea that her cells were still alive.

00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:50.400
Right.

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:53.840
They didn't know laboratories around the world were growing them.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.159
Right.

00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:58.960
And they didn't know scientists had built entire research programs around them.

00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.280
And facilities just to fucking grow them.

00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:01.840
Yes.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:07.679
And they certainly didn't know that companies were selling vials of those cells to other laboratories.

00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:09.280
See, and that's the thing too.

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:10.800
There's a money aspect to it.

00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.119
It'd be one thing if it's like, hey, I mean, I need some more Gila cells.

00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:18.079
Here you go, they'll reproduce on their own.

00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.159
No, like, yeah, we'll sell you some.

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:20.480
Yeah.

00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:21.760
So there's money involved.

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.079
Yeah.

00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:31.920
Which that makes this very tricky because the family, her family, isn't getting anything from that, but yet other companies are getting money from her cells.

00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:32.320
Yeah.

00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:33.920
That's the fucked up part.

00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:34.719
Yeah.

00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:43.360
So slowly the story of HELA cells became became nope, began spreading beyond the scientific community.

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:43.840
Yeah.

00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.159
Journalists started asking questions.

00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:54.880
Medical people who study eth ethics began debating whether patients should have more control over how their tissues were used in research.

00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:56.079
I mean, I think so.

00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:06.239
And the name Henrietta Lax, once hidden behind a scientific abbreviation, Gila, started appearing in public discussions about medical ethics.

00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:06.719
Okay.

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:17.760
The story was no longer just about remarkable scientific discovery, but a conversation about consent, ownership, and the relationship between patients and medical research.

00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:18.559
Oh, sure.

00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:19.440
I get that.

00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:28.960
So here was a woman whose cells had helped scientists develop vaccines, study cancer, understand viruses, and explore the very mechanics of life itself.

00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.519
And yet for most of those those years, her name was rarely mentioned.

00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:34.719
Or at all.

00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:46.639
That changed in 2010 when the publication of the book The Immortal Light, The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lax by Rebecca Sklut.

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:47.840
Sklut.

00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:48.559
Mm-hmm.

00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.440
It is two stories in one.

00:40:51.840 --> 00:41:01.519
One of the scientific story of Gila cells, their incredible ability to survive, multiply, and contribute to decades of discoveries.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:12.000
The other was the story of Henrietta's family who spent years trying to understand how their mother's cells had become such an important part of scientific research.

00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:25.760
The book introduced millions of readers to Henrietta Lax and sparked widespread discussion about medical ethics, informed consent, and the history of biomedical research.

00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:27.360
When did this book come out?

00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:28.159
2010.

00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:29.360
2010, okay.

00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:33.599
So over time, recognition of Henrietta's contribution began to grow.

00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:36.639
Her story was now taught in classrooms.

00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:38.880
And that's how I got this book.

00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:39.920
In a classroom?

00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.599
My friend Sam took a class and this was required reading.

00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.239
And she said, You need to read this book.

00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:48.400
Is is this Sam's book?

00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:49.519
This is Sam's book.

00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.199
Did you dog ear some of the pages?

00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.199
I did not dog ear some of the pages.

00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:54.320
Why not?

00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:56.800
Apparently you do that to Bradley's books.

00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:57.920
So actually.

00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.480
Let me show you in here.

00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:07.599
Um if I find it, I'll if I find it online as well, I'll put it in there.

00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:09.280
But there's some pictures in there.

00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:10.880
There's a picture of okay.

00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:16.639
So it's Henrietta's mother mother, Eliza Pleasant, died when Henrietta was four.

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:23.599
Henrietta is buried somewhere in the clearing beside her mother's tombstone in an unmarked grave.

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:24.239
All right.

00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:25.840
So it's like right next to.

00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.840
Hopefully you can find a picture of that.

00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.880
Otherwise, I'll try and zoom in on that when I do editing.

00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.000
But that's so have they still not put a headstone on her fucking thing?

00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:37.440
I mean, I don't know if they have now.

00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.280
She's I feel I feel like they should.

00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:44.400
I mean, she's like she's got life after death for love of God.

00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:52.320
I mean, and look at how many things have been created because of her cells, and she just keeps on living.

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:52.800
Yeah.

00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:54.400
The immortal Henrietta.

00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:01.280
So museums and scientific institutions began acknowledging her role in medical history.

00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:07.440
Researchers who worked with Gila cells increasingly spoke about the woman behind them.

00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:14.559
And meanwhile, her cells continued to do what they had always done divide.

00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.960
Which is crazy.

00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:22.559
Decade after decade, Gila cells remained one of the most widely used cells in the world.

00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.639
I I feel like they don't really divide.

00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:26.159
I feel like they unite.

00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:32.880
So questions about consent and ownership now never fully disappeared.

00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:42.559
In the 21st century, as biotechnology companies continued to sell products derived from Gila cells, members of the Lex family began pursuing legal action.

00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:43.119
Sure.

00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:49.119
Their argument was not simply about money, it was about recognition and fairness, although they did receive money.

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:50.079
Of course they did.

00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:58.800
The family believed that Henrietta's cells had contributed to a massive global research industry, yet the woman herself had never been asked for permission.

00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.039
Right.

00:43:59.199 --> 00:43:59.679
And her family.

00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.800
Had long remained unaware of how widely her cells were being used.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:11.119
The legal debate surrounding the case reflected larger questions facing modern medicine.

00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.320
Who benefits from medical discoveries?

00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:19.119
Who should have a say in how biolog biological materials are used?

00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:19.440
Right.

00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:23.760
And how should the people behind those materials be acknowledged?

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:41.039
In 2023, more than 70 years after the original sample was taken, members of the Lax family reached a confidential settlement with a biotechnology company that had been selling products derived from GELA cells.

00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.079
The terms of the agreement have not been made public.

00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:44.960
Which is fine.

00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.719
But the moment carried a certain amount of like historical weight.

00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:59.119
More than seven decades after Henrietta Lax walked into a hospital setting, um, the conversation about her cells and her legacy was still unfolding.

00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:04.639
Today, GELA cells continue to grow in laboratories around the world.

00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:09.599
It remains one of the most important tools in modern biomedical research.

00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:19.360
And behind those four simple letters, he-la, this is the story of a woman whose cells helped shape the course of medical science.

00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:26.719
A woman whose name is now finally spoken alongside the discoveries her cells made possible, Henrietta Lex.

00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.559
And that's like one of the only photos of her?

00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:30.960
Yeah.

00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.000
That's crazy.

00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:33.360
One of a few.

00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:42.400
So apparently it's also an HBO film starring Oprah Winfrey, uh Winfrey, and Rose Bryan.

00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:43.679
Byrne.

00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:44.880
Sorry, Rose Byrne.

00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.599
Like Bryan is what you do to your Thanksgiving turn.

00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:48.159
Burn.

00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:49.679
I like Rose Byrne.

00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:50.239
Me too.

00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.639
She's also fetching.

00:45:52.800 --> 00:46:06.159
But, anyways, um the problem I have with it, I'm totally on the Lax family side with this, is the fact that, yes, her cells have created countless discoveries.

00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:11.920
And again, you know my feelings on the medical world because of what happened with my dad and everything.

00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.320
I'm not saying anything specific.

00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.320
That's another day.

00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.000
But they did this to fucking make money.

00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:25.360
And they're making billions of dollars off of what these things do.

00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:30.559
Because these are life-changing fucking things, but yet we're gonna charge you for it.

00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.719
Yeah, like it started off innocent with like we're just gonna research it, but now we're gonna make products out of it.

00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.840
And we're gonna make profits off of it because that's all they're about.

00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:40.320
Yeah.

00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:45.360
The medical community, there's the people who are on the boots on the ground, as people say.

00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:47.519
There are people who care.

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:52.639
The people that control those boots on the ground, they don't give a fuck about you.

00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:53.119
Yeah.

00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:55.519
And that is very prevalent.

00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:00.320
And I've been very I'm not one to go to doctors, anyways.

00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:01.840
I'm not a doctor person.

00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:03.360
I fucking hate going to the doctor.

00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:06.400
I had to take my son to urgent care the other day because he has strep throat.

00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.280
I didn't even want to take him because I didn't want to go.

00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:10.400
And it wasn't for me.

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:10.800
Yeah.

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:12.079
I just didn't want to go.

00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:14.800
But like ever since my dad, fuck that.

00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:15.280
Yeah.

00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:16.559
That's my personal opinion.

00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:18.960
To each their own on it, obviously.

00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:26.880
But it's all just a huge fucking business to make billions of dollars for people who run the fucking show.

00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:28.639
And it's bullshit.

00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:38.239
I'm not, you know, talking about universal worldwide healthcare or whatever the fuck like what Canada has or anything, because then hey, I broke my leg.

00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:39.519
We'll see you in six months.

00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:41.760
Because, you know, it can't get fucking in.

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.320
But um, I don't know.

00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:51.760
I just think it's good stuff used for the wrong reasons and charged way too much for it.

00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.840
So, anyways, that's all I have to say.

00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:56.000
How did you like your beer?

00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:03.280
So, this uh black bad boy, um black wheat ale, it was good.

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.000
I don't know if I could drink a lot of them for sure.

00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:09.039
Uh we should give one to Nathan and you try the other one.

00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:10.559
But um, it was good.

00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:11.599
I enjoyed it.

00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:12.880
Uh curious to see it.

00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:16.000
We should pour yours in a pint glass just to see because it is a dark beer.

00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.880
So I'm curious to see what the overall coloring is.

00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:22.320
But of course, uh my chaos pattern is delicious.

00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:23.519
I've had these.

00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.960
Um I yeah, good stuff.

00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:28.719
I love your fresh coast kid.

00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:31.199
You made it through uh one and a partial, right?

00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:31.840
I did, yeah.

00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:32.480
Good for you.

00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:33.440
I mean, that's great.

00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:34.079
Cheers.

00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.280
Cheers, chaz.

00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:39.039
Anyways.

00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:48.719
The uh the book by Rebecca Sklut, um The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lax, um, is going to be in um our show notes.

00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:57.920
So yeah, we'll we'll put a link to that and uh see if uh hopefully some get some people to listen to audiobook or read it, even for that matter.

00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:05.039
So that's cool that Sam, I mean, was forced to read it and created the story, I'm sure she did, yeah.

00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:06.480
Well, Sam likes to read though, right?

00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:08.719
I mean, so that's awesome.

00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:13.760
But yeah, no, it's kind of cool that it's like it's funny how we find some of our stories, you know.

00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:18.559
You do your searching and whatever, and then sometimes, hey, I had to read this book for school.

00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:20.559
You should fucking check it out, it's really cool.

00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:35.119
So, I mean, it's kind of cool how that happens, but so it was actually kind of funny because Nathan recently sent me a link to her story, not not the book, but just overall her yeah, like and I was like, Okay, I'll look into this.

00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:41.519
I've heard of her, and I've heard of her because Sam talked to that to me about this six months ago.

00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:44.960
Oh shit, and I told Sam, I was like, Yeah, Nathan told me to look up this person.

00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:46.320
She goes, I gave you that book.

00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:49.039
I'm like, Oh, I have that book.

00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:51.039
My bad.

00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:52.960
Yeah, that's funny.

00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:54.239
Well, no, that's cool though.

00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:56.719
You know, obviously she's known.

00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.360
You know, I mean, Nathan gave it to you, she gave it to you, whatever.

00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:03.199
I I never heard of her before, so that was quite interesting.

00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:07.840
And the fact that her cells are still fucking growing to this day.

00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:13.760
Has did you come across or in the book or anything online research, whatever?

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:18.079
Why are her cells so resilient and continue to do this?

00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:22.960
It's because of what I've told you about um them being cancer cells, right?

00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:26.400
And they're just because cancer reproduces, reproduces, reproduces.

00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:30.719
And because there's like a tail on the end of our chromosomes that die off.

00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:31.679
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.559
Yeah, no, yep.

00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:37.679
And hers she produces an enzyme that makes signals, yeah, yeah, something like that.

00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.079
That's crazy, you know, in layman's terms, in uneducated terms.

00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:44.559
And that's that's me, that's why we do this.

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:49.360
But it's funny because like there's a Metallica song with a line, We Were Born for Dying.

00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:54.320
Not Henrietta, not Henrietta, she's fucking living on, she will live on forever.

00:50:54.559 --> 00:51:00.000
She's been to fucking space, and they actually dyed her cells.

00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:09.039
I don't know if they're all like this, but um, and I'll post a picture throughout, but like they dyed her the nucleus yellow.

00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.000
Oh, okay.

00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:13.920
And then I think the mitochondria, which is the powerhouse on the cell.

00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:18.320
That's you say that with so much confidence, like you knew that prior to this.

00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:20.559
No, that was like whatever.

00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:27.360
Any who's anyway, but it looks like it almost looks like um fireworks in the sky.

00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:31.760
Like it's they're so pretty how they how they did that.

00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:32.400
Okay.

00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:34.719
I mean, I could just turn my container on.

00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:35.920
Uh we'll just put a picture in.

00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:36.159
Okay.

00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:37.840
That's gonna be too difficult.

00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:38.639
Fine.

00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:40.159
You're gonna knock shit over.

00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:41.039
I probably yeah.

00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:42.480
Yeah, I mean, who are we kidding?

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:43.039
I know.

00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:44.800
I we aren't kidding anybody.

00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:46.719
Well, I suppose.

00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:48.239
All right, buffoons.

00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:49.599
That's it for today's episode.

00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:53.920
Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time.

00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:56.320
Feeling hungry for more buffoonery?

00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:01.280
Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:02.960
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00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:07.760
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00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:12.320
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00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:15.440
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00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:20.320
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00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:23.840
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:26.639
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.