Oct. 6, 2025

For Profit For His Hairs: MLK Jr.

For Profit For His Hairs: MLK Jr.
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A single microphone, a sea of people, and a line that still echoes—and a copyright story few expect. We follow “I Have a Dream” from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial into the courts, where old statutes and modern rulings decided that a performance isn’t a publication and a civil rights landmark could remain private intellectual property. Along the way, we unpack how the King Estate licenses the speech, what fair use really covers, and why media outlets either pay for full footage or tiptoe with brief excerpts.

We talk frankly about the tension between stewardship and commercialization. From the CBS case to USA Today’s settlement, to ad deals and archive sales, we examine how legal protection intersects with public memory. The picture gets even more human inside the King family: siblings aligned and divided over licensing, the near‑sale of the Nobel medal and King’s Bible, and the uneasy truce between the for‑profit estate and The King Center nonprofit. It’s a story about law, legacy, and the optics of monetizing a moral milestone.

What should access look like for words that helped reshape America? We explore the life‑plus‑70 clock toward public domain, why “limited publication” mattered, and practical ways to widen access without inviting misuse. If you’ve ever quoted the line, taught the speech, or wondered why a cultural touchstone feels paywalled, this conversation brings clarity and nuance without losing the heartbeat of the message. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves history and media law, and leave a review to tell us: should a national memory be licensed—or liberated?

Branch, Taylor. Interview on MLK speech access, as cited in The Washington Postwashingtonpost.com.

Estate of Martin Luther King, Jr., Inc. v. CBS, Inc., 194 F.3d 1211 (11th Cir. 1999) – Key quote on performance vs. publicationen.wikipedia.org.

Moss, Aaron. “The Copyright Legacy of Martin Luther King.” Copyright Lately, 2023copyrightlately.comcopyrightlately.com.

Gryboski, Michael. “A Copyrighted Dream: Estate Maintains Strict Control…” Christian Post, Jan. 16, 2017christianpost.comchr

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00:00 - Cats, Drinks, And Warm-Up Banter

05:10 - Setting The Stage: March On Washington

09:30 - How The Speech Became Copyrighted

16:45 - Limited Vs General Publication Explained

23:05 - Life‑Plus‑70 And The Public Domain Clock

28:00 - Estate Enforcement And Commercial Licensing

34:00 - The CBS Case And Legal Precedent

41:00 - Media Settlements And Fair Use Boundaries

47:30 - Family Power Struggles Over King’s Legacy

55:30 - Nobel Medal, Bible, And Public Outcry

01:02:00 - Nonprofit Vs Estate: The King Center Rift

01:09:00 - Who Should Own A National Memory?

01:16:00 - Access, Education, And The Irony Of “Free”

01:20:00 - Reflections, Emotions, And Closing Notes

WEBVTT

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Oh, hey there.

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Oh, hey there.

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We got Stella and Sal in the podloft with us.

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We sure do.

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Say hi, guys.

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Chirp, chirp, Sal.

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No, all right.

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Is that calling?

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I gotta chew on my cock.

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They do not chirp on command.

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No, but they'll chirp yet.

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Yet.

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We're working on it.

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Sarah and I are especially working on it now that they're down at our house.

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Officially.

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Officially.

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And I'm pretty sure that they remembered me.

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I was really nervous that they weren't gonna remember.

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I told you they would remember you.

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Good lord.

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I know.

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They're so adorable.

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They really are.

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They're good kitties.

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They've uh they've acclimated really well to uh yeah to other cats and the house and my kids absolutely love them.

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So oh, oh, share their middle names because they're they're the greatest.

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Hi, I'm Kate, and I'm Bradley.

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This is the history buffoon.

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Oh my god.

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I mean, we are buffoons, and it doesn't have to be just about history, really.

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Let's be honest.

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I mean, there's a history aspect, and then there's a buffoon aspect, and we are the buffoon side of it.

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We are like life buffoons.

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Life buffoons.

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Yeah.

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So we'll just words I can't remember.

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I wanted to use.

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Middle names.

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Anyways, so um I came up with their first names because I didn't want like little Miss Fluffybutt as their name or something stupid like that.

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And we've mentioned this on previous a previous episode.

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So we got Sal and Stella.

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So I told my kids that they could pick out their middle names.

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And they did such a good job.

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They didn't disappoint.

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So I said, no need to rush into it.

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Take your time.

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It doesn't need to happen tonight because I don't remember what night that was I did that.

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And uh so I let, since I have a boy and a girl, and we got a boy and a girl cat, I let Xavier pick Sal's, and I let Vesper pick uh Stella's.

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So Xavier picked Theodore as Sal's middle name.

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Salvatore Theodore.

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Yeah, and then uh Vesper for Stella picked Clarabel, which I freak I think that is just the so freaking cute.

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She loves Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse.

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She does, yes.

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And she likes Clarabelle.

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She loves that character.

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It's so funny too because Sarah's friend, um I've I I know him too not very well.

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Um I've only met him a few times really, but her friend and uh uh her husband worked at Disney for Disney, whatever.

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Uh one of them works for the cruise line portion of it, and another one works, I believe, at Disney World, like some in some fashion.

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He's not like goofy walking around, he actually works like on the shit I don't know, honestly.

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Anyways, um, so I know she had reached out to her a while back saying, is there any like Clarabel stuff?

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Yeah, and apparently it's it only comes out very few and far between, if there is even anything.

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So, anyways, so Vesper picked Stella Clarabel.

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I love it, I love it so much.

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I'm gonna insert a couple pictures here just so you can see what kitties we're talking about when we keep talking about gazettes.

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All right, so what do we got to drink today?

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Okay, so we frequent, um, it's been a little bit, but we frequent Elkhart Lake and we go to Brown Bear.

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Our favorite place.

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Yeah, it's so good.

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It's such a great bar atmosphere.

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Good people though.

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They have yeah, the bartenders are all fabulous.

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Shout out to Jessica and Dano.

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We we interact with a lot of the random uh patrons there too.

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Yeah, just and just conversations, and their food is not traditional bar food.

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Like it's they don't have a fryer.

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Well, every time we go there, we drink pseudo-soo, and I found it in the cans.

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Um, I know it's it's it's available, I just don't look for it.

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And I just saw it and I was like, I need to have a pseudo-soo.

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So I bought myself a pseudo-soo pale ale, and it is from Toppling Goliath Company.

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And that is from Decora, Iowa.

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Yep.

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Sure it is.

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That is what I am having today.

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And I don't think I've ever had this on the podcast.

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We are trying to remember.

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I'm pretty sure I haven't yet, but even if I have, I'm super excited to have it again.

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Uh, but it's by Eagle Park out of Moskego, which is uh set list, it's a hazy India pale ale.

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Whenever I go to the Milwaukee County Zoo, they have a couple different uh places that have this, and this is usually my walking around the zoo beer.

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So oh, so you've had you've had this one.

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Oh, I've I've had it quite a bit.

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I just really like it.

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I just don't think I've ever had it on the podcast.

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I'll say cheers, but okay.

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Cheers.

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That's the level.

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Okay.

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We're gonna get right into this story.

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Right into this story.

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Yes.

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All right.

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So we are going to talk about the speech, the legacy, and the copyright battles of I Have a Dream.

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Oh dear.

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Yeah, I've heard a little bit about that.

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Have you?

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What have you heard?

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Do you recall?

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That basically his family owns the rights to it, and anytime you want to use it, they can either sue you or you have to pay them.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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So you don't have to pay them for saying, I have a dream, do you?

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No.

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Because you can't copyright words like that.

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No.

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Just the overall message and speech he did, right?

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Correct.

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Okay.

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You can use like tidbits here and there.

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Um, and obviously snippets, if you will.

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Snippets.

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Yeah, but there's not really a you can only use five percent of the speech.

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Like there's nothing concrete like that.

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What if you used every other letter and people I don't know.

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I think the idea is is copyrighted.

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I mean, I have a dream every night.

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I just don't remember him.

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Oh, poor Nathan had a dream last night that he went to an event to sell a bunch of his homemade things and nothing sold.

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That's more like a nightmare.

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I know.

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I don't think that's a dream.

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I know, poor guy.

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Poor guy on Nathan.

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Okay, so 1963.

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Kennedy was assassinated.

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August 28th.

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Oh, okay, a couple months prior.

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Dr.

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Martin Luther King Jr.

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stood before Lincoln Memorial and proclaimed to over 200,000 people that he had a dream.

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It was delivered at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.

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A massive civil rights rally that was the largest of its kind.

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Especially in the 60s, yeah.

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In the midst of the civil rights movements, um, civil rights leaders had called for like a grand march in the nation's capital as a finale to demand racial and economic justice.

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What's the difference between a grand march and just a march?

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Um, the scale.

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Okay.

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Just making sure.

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Just wanted to double check.

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So, despite fears from detractors um that such a gathering might lead to like violence or like even like a very tiny fizzled out turnout kind of a thing.

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An estimated 200,000 to 250,000 people of all races showed up.

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That's a lot of people.

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And where was this again?

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The Washington Monument Monument?

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Mm-hmm.

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It was right on the I think they call it the reflection pool, like all the way around there.

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That like, is that because so that the isn't the other side like the Lincoln Memorial?

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Yeah, Lincoln Memorial and the Reflection Pool, and they call it like the mall or something.

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That's the one where uh Jenna ran through to see Forrest, right?

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Jenna.

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Jenni, right?

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That's what you're talking about.

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That's right, Forrest Gump shadow.

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What up, Forest?

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So um Dr.

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King later wrote, quote, an army without guns but not without strength, end quote.

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United in a single cause.

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That's who these people were.

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Okay.

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So by early afternoon, a parade of speakers had addressed the crowd from the steps of Lincoln Memorial.

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And Dr.

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King, knowing the importance of the moment and under pressure to keep his remarks calm and unprovocative, he prepared a text.

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He wrote out his speech.

00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:17.200
I say prepared a text, like, how do I use this QWERTY keyboard on this?

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What's an emoji?

00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:19.200
Yeah.

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.799
No, shit emoji.

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What?

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He prepared a speech.

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And before I get too far, I have to take a photo of the babies in front of me.

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This is part of the problem with inviting kittens up because Kate's like, ooh, squirrel.

00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:34.960
Oh my god, they're so adorable.

00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.320
Well, I know they really are.

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His face.

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Um, so part way through, gospel singer Malia Jackson, seated nearby, yelled at him, quote, tell him about the dream, Martin, end quote.

00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:00.960
Hmm.

00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:03.759
So doesn't she get the rights to it?

00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:05.279
I mean, what the fuck?

00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.360
So at that queue, Dr.

00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.519
King was set aside his his his prepared speech.

00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.480
And he went into an improvised speech.

00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.600
Well, look at him go, because that was a hell of a improvised speech.

00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.960
I can I couldn't even do a prepared one, let alone an improvised one.

00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:23.200
Yeah.

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I am not what you would call a good public speaker.

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What followed were words that still inspire the world decades later.

00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:34.080
Yeah.

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In I Have a Dream, he envisioned a future where the United States finally lives up to its founding promise that everyone is created equal.

00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:49.200
Well, everyone is, but it's funny how there's more division today than I don't know.

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I'm not gonna say back then because there's quite a fucking lot of division, but so good lord, we're going in the wrong fucking direction again.

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We are.

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So Dr.

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King knew instantly that this was gonna be a classic speech, and he took steps himself to protect the copyright immediately after delivering it.

00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:10.879
Okay.

00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:12.480
In September.

00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.440
So this was August, what I say, August 28th.

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That sounds right.

00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:17.039
Something like that.

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So less than a month later, just weeks after the march on Washington, King's lawyers went to court to stop unauthorized copies of the speech from being sold.

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So several several record companies like Mr.

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Maestro Incorporated and 20th Century Fox Records.

00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:37.840
It's just called Mr.

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:38.559
Maestro.

00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:38.879
Yeah.

00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:40.080
Mr.

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.519
Maestro Incorporated.

00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:42.639
Is that still around?

00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:44.320
Doesn't sound like it.

00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:46.399
Why doesn't it not sound like it?

00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:48.960
Because you haven't heard it and you're a music person.

00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:50.720
Okay.

00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:52.480
That's my logic.

00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:54.879
I want to go on subpop records.

00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.679
Do you know whose first album subpop released?

00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:00.159
No.

00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:01.200
Nirvanas.

00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:04.159
Okay, so record companies like Mr.

00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:04.960
Mr.

00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.399
Maestro Incorporated and 20th Century Fox Records.

00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:09.440
How did it go from Mr.

00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.399
Maestro to Mr.

00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:11.200
Maestro?

00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:12.480
Can you say it again?

00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:20.559
They started selling records, sorry, recordings and transcripts of this speech without permission.

00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:27.039
So I would assume someone was there recording this overall because I mean obviously there's video.

00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:32.799
Yeah, so they probably took that audio and like, hey, let's uh make some make some money.

00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:36.000
I'll I'll I'll save what I was about to say until later, but okay.

00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:41.759
So King sought out a preliminary injunction to halt those sales.

00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:48.080
So companies fought back, arguing that King had effectively released the speech into the public domain.

00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:49.279
Well, I mean it kind of did.

00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:59.440
Yeah, their reasoning was that King distributed advanced copies of the speech, even though he it was impromptu, um, to the press the day of the march.

00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:01.759
That seems weird.

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.360
And did not explicitly restrict their further use.

00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:10.159
Do you think anyone's like, well, let's re- let's re-release the original?

00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:12.879
So at the time, U.S.

00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:19.919
copyright law, the 1909 Copyright Act, required a published work to carry a copyright notice.

00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:20.320
Okay.

00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.879
Otherwise, it could enter public domain.

00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:23.440
Sure.

00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:36.960
By giving copies to reporters without a notice or explicit conditions, the defendants claimed King had published his speech to the public at large and forfeited his copyright.

00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:50.080
I'm guessing, and this is just pure speculation, that because what he gave them isn't what he said, is he's gonna use that in his favor.

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.960
I did not come across that.

00:13:53.360 --> 00:14:06.080
Okay, because I c I'm curious if that's part of it because like yes, he gave these people his speech that he had prepared, but he clearly He essentially went off on a tangent.

00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.559
He went he he did some improv.

00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:09.840
I mean, really?

00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.919
Yes, and so Dr.

00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.519
King's side counter with an interesting nuance.

00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:18.159
Okay.

00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:26.720
They argued the speech was not intended for unlimited public distribution despite being delivered openly to hundreds of thousands of people.

00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:27.279
Okay.

00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:40.639
King testified that, quote, he did not intend his speech to be generally distributed or made available to the public at large, but only to give press coverage of the march a boost.

00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.159
I I'm having some not favorable thoughts about this.

00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.320
It is kind of interesting.

00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:56.159
It's very interesting because, like, you are giving this speech, and obviously I'm not trying to take away from that.

00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:57.840
I mean, it was very inspirational.

00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:07.039
It was, you know, for a very good cause with the equal rights and civil rights and all that good stuff, but like this seems all of a sudden like a money grab.

00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:08.639
Oh, it gets worse.

00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:14.879
I know it does, but like, how am I supposed to take it seriously if, like, well, wait a minute.

00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:17.440
No, if you're gonna use it, you gotta pay us, kind of thing.

00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.480
It's like, well then I'm not gonna fucking use it.

00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:21.120
Yeah.

00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.120
I have a nightmare.

00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:34.240
So essentially the advanced text was provided for news reporting purposes only and not as a general publication.

00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.279
But but he said it in public.

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.039
Okay, sorry.

00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.360
So this boils down to the distinction between general publication versus limited publication.

00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:45.919
Right.

00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:58.799
So under the old 1909 law, a general publication making a work available to the public at large without restriction, without a proper notice, would indeed nuke one's copyright.

00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:11.759
A limited publication, however, like sharing a work with a select group for a limited purpose and no right to redistribute would not count as full publication.

00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:17.039
So it sounds weird that speaking to 200 plus people.

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:18.799
200,000 plus people, yeah.

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:28.480
Yeah, and live TV audience did not count as publishing to the public at large, but bizarrely, that was the letter of the law in 1963.

00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.279
That's just that's wild.

00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.320
The federal judge agreed with King.

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:45.279
The court found that handing out the speech text in the press tent without any explicit permission to reprint it broadly was a limited publication just for covering the news.

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.840
But he also didn't expressly say the other side either.

00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:55.279
So why why is it one over the other at that point?

00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:03.120
So he did not um Oh dear.

00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:04.079
What'd you do?

00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.240
I apparently have a hole in my lip.

00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:09.920
Now my pants taste good.

00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.599
I don't know.

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.440
You know what I mean though, by that question?

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:21.440
And and I'm again, I'm not trying to like take away from like this the historic, like what's the word I'm looking for?

00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:26.960
You know, significance of what this was, but it's like I don't know, it just seems really weird.

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.279
That's like I gave a speech, let's copyright it.

00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.079
No one else can use it.

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.240
Now you have to pay us to do this now.

00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.559
It's like it just seems really fucking weird.

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:42.160
And almost to me, my feeling only, this is Bradley's feeling, is it all it kind of takes away from what you were going for.

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:42.960
Yeah.

00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.119
Is what I feel like.

00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:50.319
And I I I only recently heard about this not that long ago.

00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.480
I never knew of this, and it always was like inspiring and whatever.

00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:58.079
It's like I feel it just to me, it feels like it takes away from it a little bit.

00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:04.400
And I don't like that because it was so significant in what he did, what he said, what he was going for.

00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:11.599
So there was no evidence that King like offered copies to the general public with no strings attached.

00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:12.160
Right.

00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.119
Therefore, he hadn't waived his rights.

00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:15.680
Okay.

00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.039
So the result is the copyright preserved, the injunction is granted, and Dr.

00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.119
King won won this round.

00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:23.599
Sure.

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:33.680
So he subsequently registered the text of the speech for federal copyright protection in September of 1963, labeling it an unpublished work.

00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.319
So King had a dream and a copyright.

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.359
I have a copyright dream.

00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.920
So King showed that he valued essentially controlling the use of his words.

00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.559
Perhaps he feared misrepresentation.

00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.160
That doesn't seem like it to me.

00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:51.920
Commercialization.

00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:54.240
I don't know.

00:18:54.400 --> 00:19:00.480
I understand that that maybe argument, but it doesn't seem like that's the the motivation here.

00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:05.279
Regardless, it is considered private intellectual property.

00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:09.279
Okay.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.720
Now, 1968.

00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:14.799
Let's fast forward five years.

00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:15.359
Dr.

00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.720
King was assassinated.

00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:17.759
Wait, what?

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:24.240
He left his family to carry on both his legacy and the stewardship of his works.

00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.839
So does the copyright uh can you will that to your family?

00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.599
He did not have a will.

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:31.200
Or a way.

00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:32.160
Shit.

00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.799
Yes, he died without a will, which led to D Did you hear what I said though?

00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:37.519
That's an idiom.

00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.680
Where there's a will, there's where there's a will, there's a way.

00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:40.559
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.640
I'm sorry, I did not put that those two together.

00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:43.519
My my apologies.

00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.000
That's right.

00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:45.519
We'll have to do that on a future episode.

00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.200
Yeah, where there's a will, there's a way.

00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.200
Because that that would be an idiom, right?

00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:50.720
Yes, I believe so.

00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:51.440
I believe so.

00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:52.319
Anyway, sorry.

00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:57.599
So without a will, um, this would lead to complication in managing his estates.

00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:07.839
So in the years after his death, his widow, Coretta Scott King, and their four children sought to maintain control of King's intellectual property.

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.240
Well, yeah, because then they get the benefit from it.

00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.359
They established IPM, Intellectual Properties Management.

00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:16.160
Oh, geez.

00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:30.880
And the estate of Martin Luther King Jr., Incorporated, entities through which King King family licenses King's speech, writings, name, and likeness.

00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.200
So does Milwaukee have to pay for Martin Luther King Drive or whatever?

00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:36.480
I don't know how that works.

00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.319
I should have looked that up.

00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.839
Because yeah, everywhere has Martin Luther King Jr.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:42.319
Drive.

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:50.559
Milwaukee, I know, has one like tons of tons of big, I'm assuming especially big cities, have a Martin Luther King Jr.

00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:50.960
drive.

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.160
Yeah.

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.599
Junior Drive.

00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:58.720
So I I wonder if that is part of that kind of thing.

00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:04.160
Because I mean, if it is, that is absolute horseshit.

00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:05.440
I'm gonna ask.

00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:06.240
Chippy.

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:12.319
So be and the reason why I think it would be horseshit is because I always took it as they're honoring this person.

00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:12.960
Yes.

00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:17.680
And if if that is the case, that is horseshit to me.

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.039
But I don't, I mean, again, I'm just I'm just Bradley.

00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:21.680
What do I know?

00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.359
I'm I'm asking Chad GPT, which we call Chippy.

00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:25.920
Yeah.

00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:31.119
Cities don't pay the King Estate to name a street after Dark Dr.

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:32.880
Martin Luther King Jr.

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:33.920
Thank goodness.

00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:42.079
Cause that would because I feel like that just totally takes away from the person honoring the person and what it what it's about.

00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.759
But yet, uh, by the way, you gotta pay us for that street sign.

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:52.079
So street naming is a government action, not a commercial use, as it should be.

00:21:52.319 --> 00:22:00.480
So cities pass ordinances or resolutions to rename a street, usually after community petition or council vote.

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:01.039
Okay.

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:07.200
And because it's considered an honorary public recognition, not advertising or merch, correct?

00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:12.640
The king estate does not charge for it and legally cannot charge for it.

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.000
I I think you should just say that instead of the other one, but yes.

00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.480
Because fuck that.

00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.279
Yeah, that would just No, that was a great question, right?

00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:29.440
I mean, don't you feel like if they benefited from that, it would just completely take away from the honoring of the doctor?

00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.640
I mean, seriously.

00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:32.319
Yes, that would suck.

00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:42.160
So Kingsword becomes like a family-run business with the estate functioning as a for-profit corporation owned by his hair heirs, his hairs.

00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:48.720
Uh for profit for his hairs.

00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:50.000
For his hair.

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:52.880
Uh maybe that's the title.

00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:54.559
Let me run that now.

00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:56.640
For his hairs.

00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:58.160
That's fantastic.

00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.640
Okay, so oh man, I love that.

00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.119
Okay, so under modern U.S.

00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:12.559
copyright law, yeah, works like King's Speech are protected for a lengthy term.

00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.119
Do you think they had to go through hoops to make the movie The King's Speech?

00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:18.960
Anyways, continue?

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:22.720
No, because it's not about that king.

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.079
I know it's not.

00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:25.920
It was a stupid joke.

00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.960
God bless Colin Firth.

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.839
See?

00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:31.279
He won an Oscar for that.

00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:32.559
He did, because you know why?

00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:33.839
Because he was fucking brilliant.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.319
Because he's fucking Colin Firth and deserves he fucking deserves every Oscar ever given out.

00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.680
Oh my god, he's so fucking.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.680
Give me that Oscar, Wizard of Oz.

00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:42.799
It's going to Colin Firth.

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:44.480
He wasn't even born yet.

00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:51.279
Because he's a fucking national treasure, and he's not even from here.

00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.000
He's a UK national treasure.

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.440
He's a world treasure.

00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.640
I wonder if he needs to be knighted if he hasn't already.

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.440
Did you see uh Gary Oldman just got knighted?

00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:02.400
Good for him.

00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:03.119
Here, here.

00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:05.039
Fuck yeah, here, here, here, here.

00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:07.759
Gary Oldman is also a world treasure.

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:09.359
I fucking love Gary Oldman.

00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:11.759
Okay, let's get back to we're getting on a tangent.

00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:12.160
Sorry.

00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:13.920
So under modern U.S.

00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:24.240
copyright law, yeah, King's speech um is protect protected the author's life plus 70 years.

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.079
So it's gonna expire?

00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:26.799
Yes.

00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:27.519
Really?

00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:28.160
Yes.

00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.759
So since King died in 1968, that would put expiration around 2038.

00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:34.400
Right.

00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:41.599
And I say around because there has been an additional copyright law put in place.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:42.880
What law is that?

00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:53.920
It's an it's a reestablished copyright law that now says that his um speech will be uh up for public domain in 2058.

00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.039
An additional 20 years.

00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:57.039
So why'd they get 20 more years?

00:24:58.319 --> 00:24:59.200
Gray area.

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.960
That was fucking phenomenal.

00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:08.319
Yes.

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:14.640
Over the decades, the king estate has been vigilant, some say aggressive.

00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.359
See, and that okay, I'll let you continue.

00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.000
I'm sorry.

00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.200
In policing the I Have a Dream speech and other King materials.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:32.960
So they established IPM as the executive licensor licensor for King's works.

00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:44.799
Anyone who wants to reproduce the speech, include it in its in media, or use King's image, must go through this office and pay a fee.

00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.119
Do you have what this fee would be?

00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:47.920
I do not.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.759
They do not declare what it is.

00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:54.640
I get I'm guessing in terms of use, it's gonna vary.

00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:55.039
Yes.

00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.599
It's not like a flat fee, like it's not a flat fee.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:59.119
100 bucks, you can use it.

00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:05.200
Obviously, it's gonna be depending on the scope of the project or whatever, it's gonna vary.

00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.160
So, yeah, I I just was curious if there was a dollar amount somewhere else.

00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:09.359
You do not disclose that.

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:10.400
Okay, that makes sense.

00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.640
So it might feel wrong that a seminal piece of civil rights history is private property that you need to pay to use.

00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.319
But legally, since Dr.

00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:30.319
King was a private citizen, not a government official whose speeches would automatically be public domain, his words are protected by copyright just like any other artist's work.

00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.759
See, and that's where I have a problem with this is like artist work.

00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.000
He gave a speech.

00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.480
It's not like he wrote considered an artist.

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.880
He not he didn't write a song and then have it had it copyrighted, you know.

00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.119
Oh, Kate's gotta take a picture of the kittens again.

00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:48.720
Oh my god, they're just so adorable.

00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.400
I mean, I'm aware, but we're doing a podcast.

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:54.240
Oh my god.

00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.200
They're being so cute, they're like laying on top of each other.

00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.000
We should have had a uh kitty camera for the podcast.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:06.559
I could have inserted the little clips here and there throughout the episode.

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.319
What makes you think we're not gonna do it for that?

00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:11.119
Because we're not filming them.

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:12.720
No, but I'm taking pictures.

00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.759
Like I said, a kitty cam, not a kitty camera.

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.519
Good lord.

00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:20.079
Okay.

00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:31.920
Um, the king family has finally um has embraced that protection both for financial reasons, of course, and to ensure King's words are used in proper, respectful context.

00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:32.720
Okay.

00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:40.480
So the state defenders say careful licensing prevents misuse or distortion of King's message.

00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:51.759
King's children have often stated they're driven not by greed, horseshit, but by a sense of responsibility to preserve the integrity of their fatherless image.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:58.960
Okay, what have their what has the children done and besides just run this campaign for his speech?

00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.200
Um, that's pretty much what they do.

00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.200
So that's not not much.

00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.119
I I don't believe that then.

00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:14.960
Martin Luther King the Third insisted that they turn they they usually do turn down many requests that don't meet their standards.

00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:23.680
Maintaining control from this pers perspective is is part of maintaining King's brand and legacy.

00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:27.279
Do they sell Martin Luther King I have a dream hoodies?

00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.240
I mean, what the fuck?

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.079
They're his brand.

00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:35.599
Yeah, I just feel like it takes away from the cultural significance of what he did.

00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:40.319
It absolutely does, and I don't like that because there's been lots of debate over that.

00:28:40.640 --> 00:29:07.680
I don't blame him because it it it cheapens what he was doing because you have to pay to use this, and it's not like I just want to go out and use this all willy-nilly and fucking throw it like you have a dream and you have a dream, like Oprah or something, but I just it cheapens it to me, and I don't I just I don't like that because it was such an insignificant message, especially during that time frame with the civil rights going on and everything.

00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:14.400
It just really makes it like cool, you branded him way to go.

00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.000
Yep, and I'm supposed to now all of a sudden still be about it.

00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:29.039
Sorry, so the political left and the right have chided the family for privatizing a piece of American history.

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:37.680
Some feel the family's policing of permissions and fees borders on profiteering off the martyr of the civil rights movement.

00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:45.200
And over the years of the estate um has not shied away from commercial deals.

00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:50.079
They have they have licensed King's words for various advertisements.

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.079
Yeah, for a boatload of fucking money.

00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:59.599
Companies like Mercedes Benz and Singular Wireless have managed to pay the fee to.

00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:01.440
Use the speech in ads.

00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.680
That's a wireless company you haven't heard in a while.

00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:04.480
Singular.

00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.759
Yeah, I remember them.

00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:06.160
Yep.

00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:07.279
Do you remember Primeco?

00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.400
No.

00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.160
They had this weird, like square head with an antenna.

00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:15.759
It looked like a phone face, but it was like a little alien thing or something.

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.559
Anyways.

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.079
I think that was Primeco.

00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:25.039
So the estate also sold a large collection of King's personal papers in 2006 for$32 million.

00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.640
Okay, so isn't that pub whoever owns that then?

00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.640
Or do they still have rights to that?

00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:31.920
They sold it.

00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.920
God, I fucking hate sometimes this podcast.

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.200
I just get angry and I don't want to get angry.

00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:41.519
Like, I don't want to be angry about what he did.

00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:42.880
Don't hate the podcast.

00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:43.680
Hate the player.

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.400
I'm just I'm just the the I'm kidding.

00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:48.079
I don't the mediator.

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.279
What's it called?

00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.839
I'm just delivery person.

00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:53.200
Messenger.

00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:53.839
Thank you.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:55.279
I'm the messenger.

00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.599
No, you do you understand what I mean by that?

00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:58.160
Yeah.

00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:00.079
I obviously don't hate our podcast.

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:01.599
I actually love doing our podcast.

00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:02.480
Thank God.

00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:03.759
I love doing this with you.

00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:05.359
But I just it makes me angry.

00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:07.119
Like, I don't want to be mad about this.

00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:07.680
Yeah.

00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.559
But this makes me mad about something that was again so culturally significant.

00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:17.359
And now it's like it just fucking cheapens it in my brain.

00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.960
And I will literally look at this a different way from now on.

00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:21.440
Yeah.

00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.720
I'm not going to take away from him himself and when he actually did it.

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:27.359
And what he said, like, and what his words meant.

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:27.920
Correct.

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:28.240
Yeah.

00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:35.680
I'm it what I'm going to look differently as is from his death on, let's make a business out of daddy's words.

00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:36.079
Yeah.

00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:37.920
That fucking sucks to me.

00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:39.519
I don't like that at all.

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:43.440
And I understand it's his words, his family, whatever.

00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:47.920
But like, literally, that's all you do is make money off of your dad's words.

00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.000
That seems fucking stupid.

00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.960
And I hate that I'm angry about this.

00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:58.880
Okay, so the estate has incurred significant costs in legal enforcement.

00:31:59.039 --> 00:31:59.680
Yeah.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:14.559
In a moment during a court hearing, an attorney for the estate justified the need to raise funds by noting that, quote, paying lawyers to enforce their rights to kings, words, and image is expensive.

00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.599
Are you fucking kidding me?

00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.160
I'm sorry.

00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.519
If you can't afford it, then don't fucking do it.

00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:25.440
That's horse shit.

00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:27.119
We're gonna take a break, folks.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.319
I'm just kidding.

00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.079
We'll be right back.

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:32.160
He needs to cool down a little bit.

00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:32.799
I really do.

00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:38.640
It's hot up here, and I'm fucking flaming from this dumb shit fucking stuff and things.

00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:44.000
Maintaining King's dream and core can be an expensive dream of its own.

00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:49.599
The estate's pursuit of licensing revenue helps fund those enforcement efforts.

00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.599
Oh, thank God they can fucking crack down on people that say, I have a dream.

00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.880
Thank that makes the world a better fucking place.

00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:05.839
This dynamic between preserving legacy and profiting from it underlies much of the controversy about who owns the speech.

00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:11.440
It diminishes his legacy by them making profits off of it, in my opinion.

00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:12.640
After Dr.

00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:21.039
King's initial 1963 injunction, the next big legal fights over the dream speech came in the 1990s.

00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.160
Oh, good years.

00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:22.880
I grew up then.

00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.119
By then the law had changed.

00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:34.240
Now we're in the 1976 copyright law that made copyright automatic and did away with notice requirement.

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:36.400
So interesting.

00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:37.119
All right.

00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:41.200
So the estate of Martin Luther King Jr.

00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.559
versus CBS happened.

00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.119
Good old CBS.

00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:52.960
This was a clash between the King Estate and CBS News over a 1994 documentary.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:53.839
Oh shit.

00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:54.400
I don't know.

00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.160
Were they honoring their father?

00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:05.839
CBS had produced the an episode of the 20th century with Mike Wallace, which included about 60% of the I Have a Dream speech footage.

00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:10.880
Was that 1% too many to pay up, motherfucker?

00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:12.239
You 60, not 59.

00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.119
The estate demanded licensing fees.

00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:16.559
Oh, good lord.

00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.719
Okay, calm down.

00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:19.840
I'm trying.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.760
I'm not even halfway through.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.920
We're not even I need more beer.

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.679
And Angry Bradley's back.

00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:33.760
So the estate demanded licensing fees.

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.320
CBS refused to pay.

00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:37.440
Go CBS.

00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.559
Essentially arguing that the speech was in public domain.

00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:42.320
Since the earlier Mr.

00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.800
Maestro, Maestro, there it is.

00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:51.440
Yeah.

00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:56.320
CBS thought they could persuade a different court to rule differently.

00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:56.880
Okay.

00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:04.320
So in the initial trial at federal court in Atlanta, Georgia, CBS actually won.

00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:15.199
The judge ruled that King had made a general publication of the speech back in 63 by widely disseminating it, thus dedicating it to the public domain.

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:15.760
Right.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.559
However, the King Estate appealed.

00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:19.280
Oh, Jesus.

00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:25.039
And in 99, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed that decision.

00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.719
The appellate judges held that CBS had not proven a general publication.

00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:38.480
In a key line from the ruling, the court emphasized, quote, a performance, no matter how broad the audience is not a publication.

00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:43.760
To hold otherwise would be to upset a long line of precedent, end quote.

00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:51.679
So broadcasting the speech live to millions did not count as distributing copies to the public at large.

00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:58.400
So I know VCRs probably didn't exist in 63.

00:35:58.559 --> 00:35:59.599
Let's pretend they did, right?

00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.960
What does VCR stand for?

00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:02.559
Video cassette recorder?

00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:03.199
That's right.

00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.480
Did you not know that?

00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.840
I I couldn't remember, but now that you said that, I'm like, oh yeah, duh.

00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:08.480
Okay.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:12.400
Anyways, um, let's pretend they did.

00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:12.880
Okay.

00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.800
And I'm sure there was some type of recording, just maybe not a VCR.

00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.440
But let's just pretend a VCR was at home.

00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.559
I'm chilling at home, negative 16 years old.

00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.920
And oh, I'm gonna record this.

00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.559
Could I not watch that again?

00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:32.960
Could I not play that for a friend that comes over?

00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:46.880
I would have to I mean I know times are different, and I'm obviously taking a product from a f the future of 63 to the back there, but it's like I'm just I'm confused.

00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:53.199
Like, how a speech like that can just be so copyrighted.

00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:00.159
I think if the estate wanted to sue you for that, they could, but they're not gonna go after something like that.

00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.000
Can I ask a question then?

00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:05.199
I have been in bands most of my life.

00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:11.119
I have copywritten through the fucking government songs of ours.

00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.320
Written by such and such and such and such.

00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.119
Title, everything, band name, so on.

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:19.760
I didn't have to do that apparently then.

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.599
I could just say, well, no, that's mine.

00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.039
Because that's basically what he did in the initially.

00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.360
No, he did end up copywriting it.

00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:33.599
I get that, but initially, like, you can't use that because I'm copywriting it because I said it.

00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.800
But it's like I I don't I don't know.

00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:42.719
I guess I can't wrap my head around Yeah, the whole public domain versus limited publication.

00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.239
Speech given and so on.

00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:55.920
Like, I totally understand why a band would copyright a song and then put it out because it's their song, they wrote it, their words within a song is different to me than in a speech.

00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:59.679
And I might just not be understanding it, and that's perfectly on me.

00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:10.320
And you know, that's okay, but I just I can't get over like how is that a public domain, not a not a public domain, but a copyrightable thing, I guess.

00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:11.119
I I don't know.

00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.639
I don't know why I'm not grasping this, but it makes me angry.

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.199
I mean, words in a song take away the lit the the musical notes.

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:21.360
Yeah, it's still your words, correct?

00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:31.360
And you wrote those words and you still copyright that in a certain pattern, yeah, and every certain order, you still copyright that correct, and you give it to the public.

00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.760
He did the same thing, he wrote these words, gave it to the public, but it's still copyrighted.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:38.239
Right.

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:43.280
There's just no music to it, correct, and then that's why I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:55.840
It's just, I don't know, it just seems like to make a business off of this, but also not trying to conflate like music to a civil rights speech, yeah.

00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:56.480
Correct.

00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:10.159
Yeah, is like you don't you put out music to make money from your fans who like to listen to you.

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:12.079
Like I'm a big fan of corn.

00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:14.000
I'm a big fan of Raging as a machine.

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:17.840
And now there's a speech where they make make money off of it.

00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:23.119
See, and that's where that's where I'm having a hard time like grasping.

00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:28.880
Grasping, because it's not to me, it's to me it's not blurt, it's just songs.

00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.079
Speech.

00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.559
I don't I don't know how to I don't know how to better like articulate what I'm trying to say.

00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:40.800
Um I guess like to me music putting out music as a product.

00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.840
This was a civil rights fucking movement.

00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:47.760
That to me doesn't seem like a product and shouldn't be a product.

00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:59.920
It's supposed to be a life-changing thing for thousands and thousands and thousands of people to help get them the equal rights that they deserve within our country.

00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:02.159
I think that is not a product to me.

00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:08.000
I think the difference is you wanted to copyright your music.

00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:09.199
Yeah.

00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:13.360
He wanted to copyright his speech.

00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:21.119
The world thinks that he should not have done that because he said it to the world.

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:21.920
Right.

00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:30.000
I think that's where the difference lies is that if he wouldn't have copyrighted it, it would just be fucking out there.

00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.320
If you wouldn't have copyrighted your music, it can just fucking be out there.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:42.239
Right, and basically anyone could play it then, anyone could reproduce it and so on, or whatever.

00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:43.519
And but I don't know.

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:51.119
I just I can't grasp the fact that this is such supposed to be such a a free speech?

00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.000
Yeah.

00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:59.199
A speech that that garners freedom for certain people, and and his speech is not actually free.

00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.320
No, yeah, I think that's what you call irony.

00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:03.440
Do you want to be free?

00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:04.960
999, motherfucker.

00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:06.239
Okay, let me continue.

00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:07.119
Anyways, I'm sorry.

00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.440
I'm just I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:15.599
I honestly didn't think that you were gonna be this um opinionate, not like bad opinionate, but like have an opinion about this.

00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:21.840
I obviously have my opinions, and again, they are my opinions, not even Kate's, not even anyone else's.

00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:34.000
I have my opinions on this, and I I hate the fact that I'm getting so like frustrated and heated about this because again, like what he did was significant and a huge cultural thing.

00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:38.719
I I just don't think it's a fucking business, and they made it into one, yeah.

00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.679
And it's it's supposed to be about equality and stuff.

00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.320
And I I don't know, just leave it at that.

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.880
But okay, let's let's make some money off of this.

00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.679
That just it just blows my fucking mind.

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:50.719
I don't like it.

00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:54.480
I hate that I'm fucking frustrated because it's such a good thing.

00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:56.559
What he did was was awesome.

00:41:57.519 --> 00:41:58.559
At least I thought.

00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:05.280
So broadcasting the speech life to millions didn't count as distributing copies to the public at large, right?

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:17.440
And distributing copies to the news media for contemporaneous coverage is considered only a limited publication, not a giveaway of rights.

00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:22.320
Okay, so with him giving that can you say that one word again?

00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:23.119
Contemporaneous coverage.

00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:24.559
Contemporaneous coverage.

00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:25.840
What does that mean?

00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:30.719
Um, so um, I think it a little bit more like um temporary.

00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.119
Okay, so does it have like an expiration?

00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.280
Up I know it is.

00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.199
You that's usually what this is.

00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:39.519
I'm just kidding.

00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:47.280
So whether it's limited use or whatever, he still gave it to people.

00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:54.159
But then the problem also comes in, he didn't say the same thing.

00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.719
Contemporaneous means existing or occurring in the same period of time.

00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.320
That doesn't help me at all.

00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:02.719
So not temporary, right?

00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:15.599
So it just existed, it existed at the same point as we're talking about kind of so news media for for this specific coverage, I'm sorry, is considered a limited publication.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.519
I'll try and dial back my anger.

00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:18.239
That's okay.

00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:26.480
So King's estate retained the copyright, and CBS's fair use or public domain arguments fell short.

00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:33.440
So after the suppellate win for the um estate, CBS and the King Estate settled out of court.

00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:40.400
Likely, we don't know, likely with CBS paying a sum or licensing fee not disclosed.

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:41.760
You know they did.

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:42.320
Yeah.

00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:44.960
There's no fucking way they didn't pay something.

00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:52.719
So the settlement was confidential, but a press release in 2000 confirmed an agreement had been reached for the use of the footage.

00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.320
The lawsuit never went to the Supreme Court.

00:43:56.480 --> 00:44:00.400
Effectively, this the estate's ownership was solidified without further challenge.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:00.880
Okay.

00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:10.960
The 11th Circuit's ruling became the landmark decision affirming the I Have a Dream speech was not public domain.

00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:34.639
So it is worth noting how remarkable the legal logic is from a layperson's perspective, deliver a speech to everyone listening, but as long as you didn't hand out physical copies to everyone or put a copyright emoticon notice on them, you can still say it wasn't published to the public.

00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:43.679
So anyone in this world that gives a speech, as long as they don't hand it out to people, if someone else uses it, they can sue them for that.

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.480
As long as you copyright it.

00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:49.440
See, and again, he copyrighted it.

00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:50.159
He did.

00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.000
That's fucking weird.

00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:54.320
It just doesn't make fucking sense.

00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.039
He could not have cared, but he did care.

00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:01.679
Clearly, he cared because he saw the potential of making money off of it.

00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:04.400
And then the family continued that.

00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:10.000
But if he hadn't had died, like would he continue on suing people for it?

00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.960
Like, but he he copyrighted it right away.

00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.599
He did.

00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.800
So he had it copyrighted for five years, and then the family's like, yeah, let's keep this going.

00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:19.440
Yeah.

00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.000
See, that's fucking just all right.

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:32.800
Again, I'm trying not to shit on his parade, but so the appellate judge acknowledged it might seem strange, but they were following long-standing copyright technicalities.

00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:33.440
Yeah.

00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:35.679
Um, a judge, Stanley F.

00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:52.480
Birch, wrote separately to agree that basically reasoning that because no authorized tangible copies of the speech were distributed without notice and an oral speech alone didn't count as publication, the estate copyright survived.

00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:59.039
Then we have the estate versus USA Today in the 1990s.

00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:00.719
Another 1990s one.

00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:09.920
Around the same era, the estate also sued the newspaper USA Today for printing the full text of I Have a Dream in a special edition.

00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:15.039
This case didn't produce a big court opinion because USA quickly settled.

00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:16.079
Of course they did.

00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:20.159
According to reports, and like I feel like they knew what they were doing.

00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:20.719
Potentially.

00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:25.360
Yeah, like if we get caught, we'll just give them money.

00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:25.840
Right.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:26.559
Pseudo.

00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:34.480
According to reports, the newspaper agreed to pay a licensing fee in the estate's um attorney's fee rather than fight it out.

00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.239
You are so upset.

00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:37.840
I am, and I hate that I am.

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.480
I fucking absolutely hate that I'm upset.

00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:41.519
I really do.

00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:46.880
It just makes me angry that I'm upset about this because again, what he did was significant.

00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:48.559
What he did was important.

00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:56.000
And again, unfortunately, we're more divided now, especially about race, than we have been in a long fucking time.

00:46:56.079 --> 00:46:58.880
And it's sad, it's really fucking sad.

00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:04.320
I know great I know people, white people that I hate, I know black people that I like.

00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:09.920
It doesn't Asian, Mexican, whatever, whatever race you want to bring up.

00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.000
I know a lot of good people out of all of them.

00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:14.159
There's a lot of shitty people out of all of them.

00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.679
It just sucks because what he did is trying to make equality.

00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:19.440
And people are people.

00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:20.239
That's all that matters.

00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:21.679
And it sucks.

00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:23.840
Because, like, yeah, we all want to get along.

00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.239
Unfortunately, that's very hard to do.

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:33.199
Uh, just because of religious beliefs, opinions, cultural upbringing, opinions.

00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:39.199
You name it, there's gonna there's always gonna be some disagreements, and that's okay.

00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:46.480
You can have a different opinion than your neighbor, than someone down the street, down someone in a different country.

00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:55.199
And like, we're all Americans that was good here, and it's like we just want to get along, man.

00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:03.760
You know, it's just like that's all we want to do, and like love your neighbor and all that good stuff, and even if you're not religious, and that's fine.

00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:05.840
If you are great.

00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:11.360
But can't we just not to be super cheesy, but can't we all just get along?

00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:20.320
I mean, seriously, that's all that's all he was trying to do initially, but then it just it cheapens it by like let's copyright the shit and make some money.

00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:23.920
Just that that that irritates me, and I wish it didn't.

00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:31.679
Yeah, it just cheapens it for me, and I I really hate that it does because of Oh, look at that stretch by shell.

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:33.280
So cute.

00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:34.320
So long.

00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.599
I know he's a he's a beefy boy.

00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:40.559
You pick him up and then you pick Stella up, it's like you're like, whoa.

00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:41.920
Oh, it's different.

00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:47.440
I just I don't like that I'm angry about this because I don't know.

00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.519
I I feel like I've said it already.

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:50.880
It gets worse.

00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:52.239
More?

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:53.440
If you let me finish.

00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:54.400
I'm sorry.

00:48:54.559 --> 00:49:03.360
I I I am trying to stop going off on tangents of hate and angriness or whatever the fuck you want to call it, but I don't like what you said just now.

00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:04.000
Okay.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:14.079
So these lawsuits sent a message that the King family essentially meant business, and as a result, many media organizations became extremely cautious.

00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:14.639
Yep.

00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:39.440
On MLK Day, some TV networks like CNN have ponied up the money to license and air the speech in full, whereas others limit this themselves to short excerpts under fair use, which generally allows brief quotes for commentary, news, or education, which is what this podcast is.

00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:40.480
Correct.

00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:45.039
So we would be considered under fair use because we are commenting on it.

00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.519
We're commenting and we're educational.

00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:49.920
That's a hundred percent correct.

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:52.159
We are very educational.

00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.000
You should take our word as fact.

00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:58.239
Don't take our word as fact, take our what we just said as fact.

00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:02.960
Basically, what we do here is Kate teaches me something.

00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:04.800
And yes, I have my opinions.

00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.719
I can be which I love.

00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:12.400
I can be very opinionated on certain things, and I'm allowed to have that.

00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:16.800
I am not gonna call my opinion my truth because that's bullshit.

00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:22.400
But I have thoughts, I have ideas, and such.

00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:26.400
My ultimate goal is to have everyone fucking be happy.

00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:27.920
Is that gonna happen?

00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:29.039
Probably not.

00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:34.800
In my world, I try to make everyone happy, especially Sal, because fuck your cute Sal.

00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:39.199
But it just I don't I don't want to go off of t.

00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:39.679
I'm sorry.

00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:40.480
Continue, continue, continue.

00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.760
Sal, we mean the cat, although Sal the Brewer is also very cute.

00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.760
I cannot wait to watch.

00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:46.400
Okay.

00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:48.400
Side note.

00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:49.840
Cannot wait.

00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.079
So we're recording this on Friday.

00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:53.280
Look at my shirt.

00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:54.000
Yep.

00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:54.960
What's this?

00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:55.760
Can you read it?

00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:56.639
Yep, now you can.

00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:56.880
Yep.

00:50:57.039 --> 00:50:58.719
Division champs, bro.

00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:00.719
2025.

00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:02.159
Go, brewers.

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:07.360
So we just learned yesterday that we will be playing the Cubs.

00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:09.039
You are fucking shit up.

00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:10.079
Fix your microphone.

00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:12.480
Hi, Sal.

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:14.960
Oh, he's like, this is much nicer.

00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:16.239
Are you trying to cool off?

00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:18.000
He must be trying to cool off.

00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:18.880
I'm gonna take a photo.

00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:21.360
I'm guessing he is, because damn.

00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:23.679
Uh, we found out yesterday.

00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.559
Uh, so we're recording, I'm sorry, we're recording this on Friday, uh, October 3rd.

00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:34.800
The Brewers are playing the Cubs tomorrow on October 4th for game one.

00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:36.159
Come on, Brewers.

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.639
We we found out yesterday that they will be playing the Cubs.

00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:40.000
Cubs beat the Padres.

00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:44.559
Uh, fuck the Cubs because fuck them.

00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:46.639
I hate the Cubs.

00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:48.719
Martin Luther King, let's go.

00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:52.079
So the family feud.

00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.800
No family is without conflict.

00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:56.320
Well, no, that is accurate.

00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:57.119
Dr.

00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:58.880
King had four children.

00:51:59.280 --> 00:51:59.760
Yolanda.

00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:01.280
Four direct children.

00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:01.519
Yeah.

00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:01.760
Okay.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:05.039
Yolanda, Martin Luther King the Third.

00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:06.239
Third, yep.

00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:08.400
Dexter Scott King.

00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:10.480
So fucking cute.

00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:12.800
Damn, dude.

00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:16.400
I wish I I wish I could use my phone to take.

00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:17.360
Oh, big young.

00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:18.000
All right, I'm sorry.

00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:18.239
All right.

00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:19.440
Dexter Dexter?

00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:22.480
Dexter Scott King and Bernice King.

00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:23.360
Bernice.

00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:23.920
Okay.

00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:31.679
So over the past few decades, the siblings have engaged in some very public and bitter legal disputes with each other.

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:33.199
I'm not surprised at that.

00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:37.360
Coretta scoretta Scott King, the widow, yes.

00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:39.119
Died in 2006.

00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:39.920
Oh, okay.

00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:45.360
Yolanda, one of the daughters, passed away in 2007.

00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:46.400
Oh shit.

00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:47.599
How old was she?

00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:48.400
I don't know.

00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:49.199
Didn't look into it.

00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:49.920
But let's go.

00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:52.559
That wasn't a part of my research, is what you're supposed to say.

00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:53.360
You didn't look into it.

00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:54.079
It wasn't part of your research.

00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:55.039
Part of my research.

00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.800
The three surviving siblings all became directors and equal shareholders of the estate.

00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.000
Yeah, weird.

00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:09.360
They often disagreed on what to do with King's possessions and intellectual property.

00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:22.800
By 2000, by the 2010s, Martin III and Dexter were generally aligned on one side, often favoring monetization or sales of assets.

00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:34.480
While Bernice and when alive, Yolanda took a more conservative and preservanist preservanist.

00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:38.480
So every time you say Bernice, all I can think of is dodgeballs.

00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:43.599
God damn it, Bernice! Because she took the beaver tranquilizer.

00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:47.119
Sorry, anyways.

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.440
Oh shit, I don't have to pay that studio, do I?

00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:52.400
Anyways.

00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:59.519
So they look to a conservative and more per uh perservationist.

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:02.079
I don't know what words you're saying, but keep communicated.

00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:03.119
Preservative.

00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:04.159
Not preservative.

00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.000
Like okay, whatever.

00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:08.079
Do you know what the preservation room is?

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:14.559
So this led to siblings suing siblings multiple times.

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.360
Really?

00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:22.159
One fight came to a head over two of the King's family most treasured heirlooms.

00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:23.199
Dr.

00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:27.920
King's 1964 Noble Peace Prize medal.

00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:29.519
Nobel, not noble.

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:31.119
Nobel Prize.

00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:33.599
Noble Peace Prize.

00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:36.079
And the Bible that he carried.

00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:37.280
Shut the fuck up.

00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:38.239
In 2014.

00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.280
Did you tell me to shut the fuck up?

00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:42.239
Nobel.

00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:44.159
Noble.

00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:45.760
You said noble.

00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:47.840
Why am I the one?

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.320
I should have told you to shut the fuck up.

00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:54.079
I had my grandma's uh uh Bible Bible.

00:54:54.320 --> 00:55:05.840
Okay, so in 2014, the estate controlled by Martin III as chairman and Dexter as president wanted to potentially sell the Nobel medal and Bible to a private buyer for cash.

00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.000
Is chairman higher than president?

00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:10.719
Bradley, not important.

00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:12.639
Bernice.

00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:14.480
I feel like it is, but okay.

00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:20.480
Bernice, who had custody of those items, was horrified at the idea and refused to hand them over.

00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:23.920
But she wasn't horrified at making money off her dad's words.

00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:27.920
She argued that these sacred objects should never be sold.

00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:31.119
Hey, we're back.

00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:31.920
Sorry about that.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.199
We had to take a potty break because Bradley went on a rant.

00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:47.119
Okay, so they wanted to sell the Nobel medal and his Bible to a private buyer, and Bernice was horrified.

00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:48.079
I would be.

00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.079
She argued that these sacred objects should never be sold.

00:55:52.320 --> 00:56:01.440
You don't sell Bibles and you don't get one, you don't get but one Nobel P PPP P S prize.

00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:04.159
So how does how does Barnes and Noble sell Bibles then?

00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:06.079
Anyways, continue.

00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.639
The dispute went to court in Georgia.

00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:13.119
Effective effective.

00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:16.320
I love your words.

00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:30.159
They went to the court in Georgia and they were pitted against each other, brothers and sister against each other.

00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:30.880
That's sad.

00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:37.440
And a judge even had the items locked in a deposit box during the litigation just to keep them safe.

00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:38.239
Oh, really?

00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:38.719
Yeah.

00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:39.599
Holy shit.

00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:40.320
That's wild.

00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:45.599
Bernice publicly accused her brothers of crossing crossing a moral line.

00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:51.360
I've had a couple drinks, saying those items speak to the very core of Dr.

00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:55.360
King and ought to be turned ought not to be turned into cash.

00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:56.400
I will not.

00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:56.880
Okay.

00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:14.239
The brothers, via the estate lawyers, contended that the estate was cash draft and needed funds, implying that selling the metal and bible valued in the millions could help the estate stay afloat.

00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:19.360
So are you telling me that selling the speech wasn't lucrative?

00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:21.519
Continue.

00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:22.639
Indeed.

00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:31.280
The estate's attorney in court noted that enforcing King's rights is expensive, and that was part of their rationale.

00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:32.320
Boy.

00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:39.039
So far at times, it looked like the drama would result in like a public trial, which none of them wanted.

00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:39.679
Sure.

00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:44.880
Um, and Dexter admitted instructing his lawyers to try and settle the matter quietly.

00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:45.440
Yeah.

00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.480
Meditation efforts ensued, and by 2016, a resolution was reached.

00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:53.360
Look at that baby cell.

00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:55.599
Hi, buddy.

00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:56.880
He's so adorable.

00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:57.760
He really is.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:00.880
Okay, I got yelled at for this being too long, so continue.

00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:02.800
Well, don't pick up the cat.

00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:04.159
But he's so cute.

00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:05.119
Yes, okay.

00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:19.119
Bernice agreed to relinquish the items to the estate's control while the brothers in turn did not immediately auction them off.

00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:20.239
Oh no?

00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:20.800
No.

00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:21.679
Interesting.

00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:22.400
All right.

00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:34.000
In a careful worded statement, a lawyer for the estate expressed gratitude that Bernice, quote, agreed not to stand in the way of the estate's decisions, end quote.

00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:36.880
Do you think if she did, they would go, God damn it, Bernice?

00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:38.559
God damn it, Bernice.

00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:46.000
If anyone has not seen Dodgeball, you are missing out.

00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:49.039
It is so quotable and so amazing.

00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:51.360
It really, it really is a good movie.

00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.599
It's one of Ben Stiller's better movies.

00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:54.079
Yeah.

00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:55.360
Um, I mean, obviously.

00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:56.320
Vince Vaughn.

00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:00.480
Vince Vaughn, but Ben Stiller made the movie, whatever, and so on.

00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:02.639
But Ben Stiller's great in it.

00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:03.920
Vince Vaughn's great in it.

00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:05.199
Um, oh shit.

00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:07.039
Ben Stiller's wife.

00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:08.639
Ex-wife, wife, Chris.

00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:09.519
Oh shit.

00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:10.400
Christine.

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:11.920
Yeah, I know.

00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:14.880
She played Marsha Brady in like one of their movies.

00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:16.480
I'm just the Brady Bunch movies.

00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:18.159
I'm so pissed that I'm drawing a blank on her name.

00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:18.800
It doesn't matter.

00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:19.360
Let's continue.

00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:20.960
I know her name.

00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:21.519
Okay.

00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:22.960
Oh, we're over that now.

00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:23.440
Oh, okay.

00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:23.920
Anyways.

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:24.400
Sorry.

00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:29.199
So the legal ownership was confirmed to lie with the estate, not Bernice personally.

00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:29.599
Right.

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.400
Clearing the way for the estate to do it as it saw fit.

00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:39.760
Ultimately, after much public outcry, the estate did not end up selling them the Nobel medal or Bible.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:40.559
Thank God.

00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:44.639
They remain held uh for public display.

00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:46.400
Do you have to pay to see it?

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:51.039
So another lawsuit that unfolded.

00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:57.760
The estate run by Dexter and MLK the third sued King Center of Atlanta.

00:59:58.079 --> 00:59:59.280
King Center, you said?

00:59:59.440 --> 00:59:59.599
Yeah.

00:59:59.679 --> 00:59:59.840
Like.

01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:07.519
The King Center, um, which Bernice runs oh over the usage of King's image and memorabilia.

01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.559
Was that a separate entity from the other stuff?

01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:11.039
Yeah.

01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:11.360
Okay.

01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:16.000
Yeah, there's two separate things, um, the estate versus um the king center.

01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:16.960
Yeah, that's fine.

01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:17.599
Yeah.

01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:26.159
Um, so the estate had given the non-profit King Center founded by Coretta license to use the widow.

01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:26.960
Oh, okay.

01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:40.000
Um, license to use King's name, likeness, and some artifacts, but after an audit, Dexter and MLK the third accused the center of poor care of artifacts and license violations.

01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:40.960
Oh Lord.

01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:43.440
Like all in the family, folks.

01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:51.679
So they even sought to terminate the center's license and reclaim King's physical artifacts from the center.

01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:52.239
Okay.

01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:58.239
The family fight essentially Estate Incorporated versus King's Center was highly public.

01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:03.599
And just days before the trial in 2015, that's how long this has been happening.

01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:05.440
Jesus, that's a long time.

01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:17.440
Dexter withdrew the lawsuit, citing a change of heart and a desire to resolve things amicably rather than showcase family dysfunction in court.

01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:18.400
Wow.

01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:26.559
He said the dismissal was a gesture of good faith as the siblings entire entered settlement talks.

01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:27.760
Okay.

01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:29.360
Settlement talks.

01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:30.079
Yes.

01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:39.440
Both sides acknowledge that a long-term agreement was still needed on how the center and the state would coexist and share rights.

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:40.719
I don't mean to interrupt.

01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.039
Do you have so this is 2015?

01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:43.599
Yes.

01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:48.159
Do you have the ages of the kids at this point by chance?

01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:48.800
I don't.

01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:49.840
Okay, that's okay.

01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:50.719
I was just curious.

01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:55.519
I'm I'm just kind of like trying to what's the math between 68 and 2015?

01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:57.679
Is that when they were all born?

01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:00.639
That's when MLK died, 2068.

01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:01.679
I get that.

01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:03.280
Not 2068.

01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:05.039
That's the future.

01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:06.800
That's the future.

01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:09.360
What what does that have to do with their age?

01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:11.119
It gives us some ballpark.

01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:12.239
Do you have an idea?

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:14.159
Were they all born at that time?

01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:15.440
Well, they had to have.

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:16.400
He died.

01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:17.920
Touche.

01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:20.719
I was just testing you.

01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:26.800
Well, uh, that would be 47 years.

01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:30.159
So they all had to be probably in their 50s at this point.

01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:31.360
47 plus.

01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:32.320
Yeah.

01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:34.880
Possibly depending on when they were born, 60s.

01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:35.280
Yeah.

01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:35.679
So.

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:36.320
Okay.

01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:44.400
So there were at least four or five additional lawsuits between the siblings.

01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.440
Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:45.679
Yeah.

01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:46.639
I mean, there was a lot.

01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:47.760
It sounds that way.

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:48.480
Yeah.

01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:56.320
Um, so who actually owns the dream?

01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:02.559
All these twists kind of provoke the question: who owns the legacy of Dr.

01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:04.559
King and the civil rights movement?

01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:22.719
Should a piece of American history, particularly a speech as transformative as I have a dream, be treated as protected or excuse me, private intellectual property, or should it belong to the people, part of our shared cultured heritage in the public domain?

01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:25.440
In one hand, law is law.

01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:25.920
Yes.

01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:33.440
Creators and by extension, their heirs have the right to control and profit from their works for the term of copyright.

01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:34.159
Right.

01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:34.880
Dr.

01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:40.880
King, though a public figure was not a government official, nope, riding on taxpayer time.

01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:41.360
Nope.

01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:46.000
He was a private citizen, and his speech wasn't a doc a government document.

01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:46.400
No.

01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:47.119
Correct.

01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:55.840
Furthermore, licensee fees from King's speech and image have helped fund the King Center and other initiatives, the advance civil rights causes.

01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:58.639
It would be fine if that's all it did, though.

01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:00.480
But it's a business.

01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:01.519
It's a business.

01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:02.159
Continue.

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:02.559
I'm sorry.

01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:03.440
No, it's okay.

01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:09.920
On the other hand, many historians, educators, and activists find it troubling that such an important speech is paywalled.

01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:10.559
Right.

01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:15.599
The phrase, I have a dream itself has entered the global lexicon.

01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:23.760
How can the full text behind it be off limits in so many settings?

01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:24.800
Exactly.

01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:28.400
The speech essentially helped shape America.

01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:30.480
It belongs to America.

01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:34.079
One can argue not to the individual family.

01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:34.639
Correct.

01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:36.000
The specific family.

01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:38.000
And that's the issue that I have.

01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:41.760
It belongs to America because it was an American issue.

01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:43.599
We had the civil rights.

01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:46.159
Do you think Stella's gonna knock your painting over?

01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:50.239
It has had civil rights implications.

01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:53.440
It was very significant in that time frame.

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:59.119
So yeah, I mean it's it's it's an American literally institution.

01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:00.960
It's not a privatized institution.

01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:04.079
And that and that's where I have the issue.

01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:04.639
Yeah.

01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:12.880
So Taylor Branch, the Pulitzer Prize-winning civil rights historian, has been pretty outspoken on this.

01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:13.360
Okay.

01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:20.320
He said that he said that keeping the speech out of the public domain makes it harder for Americans to learn about the speech.

01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:30.719
And he personally urged the King family to reconsider, saying flatly in 2013, quote, they are making a mistake.

01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:32.000
They are.

01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:52.079
What's this person's name again?

01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:57.599
This is Taylor Branch, a Pulitzer Prize-winning civil rights historian.

01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.480
Taylor Branch?

01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.840
I am 100% on your fucking side.

01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:09.760
You are way more.

01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:12.719
What's the word I'm looking for?

01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:14.559
Yes.

01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:16.800
I agree.

01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:24.159
Because it means so much more than what they're bastardizing this for.

01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:32.880
Which is it it has so such implications within our history, within what we're trying to achieve.

01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:36.400
Again, like unfortunately, we're going backwards right now.

01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:40.639
It's more than what the words are.

01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:44.719
It's the the feeling of behind it.

01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:46.079
Words have feelings.

01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:46.559
They do.

01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:48.000
I mean, read a book.

01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.639
Those words have feelings, no matter what it's about.

01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.079
Read a love letter.

01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:52.639
Yeah.

01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:56.159
I mean, like read a farewell letter.

01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:57.039
Oh Romeo.

01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:58.320
Oh Romeo.

01:06:58.559 --> 01:06:59.599
Read a poem.

01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:05.440
I mean, Shakespeare, poems, anything that they have they have weight to them.

01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:12.320
And those words had weight to a specific thing, and you bastardize them by fucking making a profit off of it.

01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:14.320
And that that sucks to me.

01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:15.199
Yeah.

01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:27.920
When access is limited, yeah, the risk is that the speech's impact dulls over time or is misunderstood, misunderstood because people haven't heard or read it in its full.

01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:28.480
Right.

01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.440
And journalists have echoed this concern.

01:07:31.679 --> 01:07:32.000
Yes.

01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:44.639
So on MLK Day, opinionated editorials appear lamenting that one of America's greatest speeches isn't freely available to print or broadcast in its entirety.

01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:46.320
Well, see, and that's that's the funny thing.

01:07:48.559 --> 01:07:49.280
March, right?

01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:49.920
March.

01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:50.880
Yeah.

01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:53.199
It's oh, it might be February.

01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:56.400
No, I thought it was in March because President's Day is in February.

01:07:56.639 --> 01:07:57.679
Isn't it March?

01:07:57.920 --> 01:07:59.920
Uh let's just let's just look it up.

01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:01.840
So Or it's January.

01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:04.159
Is it January?

01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:05.119
January.

01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:06.320
January what?

01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.639
Um, so this coming year, 2026, is January 19th.

01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:12.239
Oh shit.

01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:16.399
Is is is that date significant in terms of his life?

01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:17.359
Was that no?

01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:19.199
It has no birthday or nothing like that?

01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:25.359
It has gone from 18th, 17th, 16th, 15th, 20th, 9th, and then this next year's 19th.

01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:27.279
So no, it's just kind of like Jesus.

01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:28.319
It's just a Monday.

01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:29.439
It's kind of like Jesus.

01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:35.920
I don't know when I rose, but we'll we'll celebrate it after the third trimester of this full moon or something.

01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:37.359
Anyways, okay.

01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:38.800
Sorry, continue.

01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:40.399
What?

01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:42.560
Third trimester.

01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:46.399
I'm glad I could make you laugh.

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:49.039
Am I wrong?

01:08:49.359 --> 01:08:50.560
Third trimester.

01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:51.359
And it's funny.

01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:53.039
So this digestion.

01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:53.680
What?

01:08:55.119 --> 01:09:00.079
My my my new co-worker Brandon, who I told you on the last one that I've been training.

01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:01.520
I really like him a lot.

01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:02.560
He's he's a good dude.

01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:04.720
I enjoy having conversations with him.

01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:10.159
He is religious, so I'm gonna bring that up and be like, so what happened?

01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:16.479
He'll he'll find it funny because we have similar uh he seems to be like a fairly open-minded Christian.

01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:19.119
He's a very open-minded Catholic, so Catholic.

01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:20.159
Okay, great.

01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:29.600
Okay, so they argue that the civil rights history is American history and should not be treated as a private commodity.

01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:30.399
Correct.

01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:38.960
The counter counter-argument in 15 years or so, it will be a public domain.

01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:43.359
However, they added 20 years, they added an additional 20 years.

01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:52.960
1963, King delivers the speech and quickly registers it as an unpublished work under the 1909 uh copyright act.

01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:55.520
Okay, 1978, U.S.

01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:57.760
copyright law changes.

01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:58.399
Yep.

01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:02.479
That this extended terms for many works.

01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:10.640
Current rule for unpublished works by individual authors is life of the author plus 70 years.

01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:16.239
King died in 68, so that by that measure, copyright expires in 38.

01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:18.960
68 plus 70 equals 38.

01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:23.279
Some commenters cite 2058.

01:10:24.399 --> 01:10:25.520
But that makes no sense.

01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:36.640
But that usually comes from confusion with a 94, nope, 95-year term for works published before 1978.

01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:45.760
Since I have a dream was registered as unpublished, that 94-year clock shouldn't apply.

01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:53.359
No, so it should be 1938, which is in how many years?

01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:54.560
13.

01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:57.039
That's so close.

01:10:57.359 --> 01:10:58.880
But back then it wasn't.

01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:00.079
Like I totally get it.

01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:00.560
Like it wasn't.

01:11:02.079 --> 01:11:08.800
If if it is public domain in 13 years, I am putting that fucking everywhere.

01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:13.760
Should we just line our walls of the I Have a Dream speech?

01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:19.840
I will literally put every single word of that speech on my fucking black walls of the podloft.

01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:20.640
Yes.

01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:23.680
And I will just replay it over.

01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.520
You know what I keep thinking about?

01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:26.399
What's that?

01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:40.000
So when Nathan first got his um position at the the university up here, um, he had me print off a lot of influential photos.

01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:40.560
Okay.

01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.520
One was of, oh shoot, I don't remember her name, Ruby something.

01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:51.439
She was the first African-American kid going to a white all-white school.

01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:51.920
Oh, okay.

01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:56.239
And she was like descending the steps with like police officers like escorting her.

01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:56.640
Sure.

01:11:56.800 --> 01:11:57.760
He had a picture of that.

01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:00.960
He had a picture of El Chavez or whatever.

01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:02.560
He had a picture of MLK.

01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:05.680
He had a picture of other things that just meant something.

01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:06.960
Did he have to pay?

01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.159
But see, that's the thing.

01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:13.600
That's what I keep going back to is he's got this image of MLK on his cork board.

01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:14.079
Right.

01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.079
It's like that means something to him.

01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:18.319
And it's like, do you have to pay for that?

01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:19.600
See, and that's my point.

01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:21.840
It's like, it's a it's American history.

01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:25.199
It means so much to what we were going for.

01:12:25.520 --> 01:12:27.840
And I keep going back to like Forrest.

01:12:28.079 --> 01:12:32.640
Sorry, I screwed up your Black Panther party, or whatever the fuck he says.

01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:40.479
It's like the it meant so much, and it just it bastardized what you're doing.

01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:41.920
You're about to be off camera.

01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:42.800
I know.

01:12:43.039 --> 01:12:45.279
Because I'm I'm frustrated.

01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:46.159
I'm sorry.

01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:47.760
Sorry, continue.

01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:48.319
Okay.

01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:50.079
I'm gonna skip ahead.

01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:51.359
I hope so.

01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:54.319
I didn't mean to make this as long as it is.

01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:54.960
I apologize.

01:12:55.279 --> 01:12:57.520
Okay, so short experts.

01:12:58.079 --> 01:12:59.439
Excerpts.

01:13:01.119 --> 01:13:01.760
Short.

01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:04.640
Short excerpts.

01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:07.119
I'm sorry, keep going up.

01:13:07.359 --> 01:13:08.399
I'll get over it.

01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:11.439
Oh, that was amazing.

01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:13.520
Short experts.

01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:16.800
They can be used freely.

01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:20.319
They can be used freely under fair use.

01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:27.199
So the famous lines are quoted everywhere and no one and no one can stop that.

01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:27.920
Right.

01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:33.039
So how long is a short expert?

01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:35.359
It's not really explicit.

01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:35.680
Okay.

01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:37.359
It's yeah, it's not explicit.

01:13:37.520 --> 01:13:40.640
So do you realize I just said short expert on purpose?

01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:41.199
Okay.

01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:45.760
So one wants if one wants to watch the speech, you can find it on YouTube.

01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:46.720
Sure.

01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:49.680
The estate has not taken those down.

01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:52.640
Why didn't they just put them up?

01:13:52.960 --> 01:13:54.239
Because they can monetize that.

01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:56.239
Because that's all what they're about.

01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:58.479
I don't think they care on that level.

01:13:58.720 --> 01:13:59.600
See, that's the issue.

01:13:59.680 --> 01:13:59.920
I know.

01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:01.039
But they do.

01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:01.760
Okay.

01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:02.399
Sorry.

01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:12.079
If a teacher wants to show it in class, that's usually a fine, but no estate lawyers looking for shit like that.

01:14:12.640 --> 01:14:13.600
And who would?

01:14:14.159 --> 01:14:14.720
Exactly.

01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:18.239
Like who would go out and try to find all the little itty bitty things?

01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:21.039
I would love my son to see that at some point.

01:14:21.279 --> 01:14:23.840
And his and my daughter, obviously, eventually.

01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:26.000
Because it's important.

01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:28.079
It's culturally important.

01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:30.319
But okay, anyways.

01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:47.199
So the restrictions come into play for commercial or broad public dissemination, like a TV channel airing it, a publisher printing it in a book, a film using the real audio, etc.

01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:52.079
So these are the cases where permission and fees are expected.

01:14:52.399 --> 01:15:05.439
The question might be reframed as is it acceptable for the King's estate to charge media companies and publishers for using the speech while everyday people can still access it in limited ways.

01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:05.920
Right.

01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:09.680
So in the final lines of I Have a Dream, Dr.

01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:17.119
King envisioned a day, quote, when all of God's children, this is like piece together.

01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:17.520
Yeah.

01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:28.319
When all of God's children will be able to join hands and sing free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last.

01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:34.960
It is a profound irony that the speech itself is not free at last.

01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:38.079
That's the shitty part.

01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:44.560
And that's why I am going to apologize to my co-host Kate.

01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:47.680
That I had so upset.

01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:51.039
I am sorry that I got upset about this.

01:15:51.520 --> 01:15:52.720
Do you under you understand?

01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:53.520
Oh, yeah.

01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:54.800
It's infuriating.

01:15:55.199 --> 01:16:00.159
You know me well enough that you understand why that frustrated me, yes?

01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:00.880
Yes.

01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:03.119
And it makes no logical sense.

01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:12.399
It makes no logical sense because it's such culturally I'm sorry, Stella's going after a bug, and it's fucking cute as hell because she's like standing on the moldy.

01:16:12.800 --> 01:16:20.880
Anyway, it's there's such cultural significance to what he did and what he was about.

01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.920
And then they privatized it.

01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:30.880
That to me and it's it's not just his kids, it's him too.

01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:34.479
He limits who can see all that.

01:16:34.640 --> 01:16:34.960
Yeah.

01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:37.039
Why would you do that?

01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:38.159
For money.

01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:39.680
Why for money?

01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:43.680
It's it's bullshit because no, it's a hundred percent bullshit.

01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:58.800
Why would you s have this amazing speech, this amazing idea, this majing, major desire of wanting all people to be free and then and then hold it back and not everybody can see this.

01:16:58.960 --> 01:17:00.079
Nope, I'm not gonna allow it.

01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:01.680
No, unless you pay me money.

01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:02.560
So stupid.

01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:08.960
It's like um no.

01:17:10.239 --> 01:17:16.479
And you wonder why there's division in this world, and all we want to do is get fucking along.

01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:23.840
We have unfortunate political ass assassinations, we have people who hate this side, we have people who hate that side.

01:17:24.479 --> 01:17:28.000
It's sad because we're all just fucking human, man.

01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:35.840
Just get a I mean, again, not to make it cheesy with uh the 90s reference, but just can't we all just get along?

01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:38.960
I mean, seriously, yeah, we're all fucking people.

01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:45.840
Just let let us hang out, have a good time, learn something.

01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:47.039
History.

01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:48.399
That that's what we're about.

01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:49.199
We're history.

01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:52.560
Let's all hold hands because we all believe in the same thing.

01:17:52.720 --> 01:17:57.520
Oh, wait, we don't all know what the same thing is, and and that's also part of the problem.

01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:58.560
There's Stella.

01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:11.439
But that and and that's the sad thing, is it's like we we all just we wanna have everybody be a part of everything, and we would love that.

01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:13.920
I know I would, I know Kate would.

01:18:14.479 --> 01:18:19.760
And it just sucks because like there's so many people that do stuff like this.

01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:28.720
Let's bastardize what this great fucking message is for profit, and that and that is that is to me sad.

01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:34.560
That is sad, and that's why I apologize in advance, or actually not in advance.

01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:40.399
I I apologize for how upset I got because I know it it drew out the episode.

01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:41.439
No, that's okay.

01:18:41.600 --> 01:18:48.079
I know I love your stance, and I I love that you have such a strong opinion on this.

01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:52.560
Um, I honestly thought that this episode was gonna be boring for you.

01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:55.359
No, it wasn't boring at all.

01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:59.279
I I honestly loved it, and I hate that I hated loving it.

01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:15.680
Yeah, I hate that I have such a stance on like fuck them because of what they're benefiting from this when his message was at the time so pure and what it represented, you know.

01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:18.720
I have a dream and all that good stuff, and so on, whatever.

01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:22.640
And it just it loses meaning to me now.

01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:27.199
Yeah, and I don't like that because it was and that's the sad part, is it loses meaning.

01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:33.600
That's the sad part, loses importance, it it loses its cultural significance in my brain.

01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:36.079
And again, that is my opinion.

01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:38.000
Yeah, and that's okay.

01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:40.720
I agree with you 100%.

01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:43.680
Well, I suppose.

01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:44.960
All right, buffoons.

01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:46.399
That's it for today's episode.

01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:50.720
Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time.

01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:53.119
Feeling hungry for more buffoonery?

01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:58.079
Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

01:19:58.319 --> 01:20:04.560
Hit us up on social media where History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook.

01:20:04.720 --> 01:20:09.039
You can also email us at history buffoonspodcast at gmail.com.

01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:12.239
We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

01:20:12.399 --> 01:20:16.960
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the lube.

01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:20.640
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:23.439
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.