Blame it on the Rain: The Rise and Fall of Milli Vanilli

Hosts, Beers, And The Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_07 0:17

Oh hey there!

SPEAKER_02 0:18

How's it go? I'm Bradley. I'm Kate. This is the history of buffoons. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

How are you? I'm so good. How are you? Oh my god, really? I'm so good.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

So good.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

What? You have a lineup of four beers. I know.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

You have a lineup of two. That's that's about an accurate average. I guess that's part for the corn. And I also did that so I could.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

We're talking about the beers right away. We're having uh sticky paw honey blonde from Capital Brewery. It's an ale brewed with honey. Last time I tried a beer for get you a beer with honey. It was so potent.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

That stuff was insane. But again, much better out of the can.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Uh brewed by Capital Brewery from Middleton, Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

I've been there.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Have you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

I've uh I've actually told you a story about that where I went up for Bachfest and my buddy Casey, who I just got to see for the first time in a while the other day, just uh kind of catch up. Um he threw that thing of beads off the top and right around my neck. And then he threw fish off the roof. Alright, so uh we're just starting straight out. Yeah, we are. Beers, sticky paw, cheers, see how it is. I'm gonna have to agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Yeah. I'll drink it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

So this is my personal belief on this brewery. They used to be so much better.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Uh, from what I understand, and I could be not correct because certain people left. Quality went down. This is I like the logo. It's got a pear pull in the honeypot. Yeah. Some bees. All right. So there's not much to it.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

No. I have the burp already.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

You took one tip.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Two.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

We're gonna get into it.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

We're gonna talk about Millie Vanilli.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Fuck yeah, we are. Rob and Fab. Hell yeah. I used to listen to their cassette tape on the bus on the way to school. My old fucking Sony Walkman or whatever the fuck I had. And my shitty ass fucking headphones that man, headphones suck back in the 80s. Oh, they were so good. And then skimmed.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Which we'll talk about.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

We sure fucking will. How why else would you talk about Millie Vanilli other than what they fucking did?

SPEAKER_03 2:59

So let's set the scene.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

We're in 1980s.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Sure fucking are.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

And it's pop. And there's big hair and there's shoulder pads and music videos and MTV and wind machines and windbreakers and long hair everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Guys, girls, didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Didn't matter. Um, image was really important at this time.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Extremely important.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

And you needed a catchy song, a look, a vibe, a a face that could sell posters and merch and you know. Um talent obviously still mattered, but it took more of a backseat to the image.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

The production was more important than the quality of the music. Yeah. Which is really sad being a musician myself. I still, I guess, consider myself one.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

But uh that's I've told you this before, but uh since we're talking about music, I'll have to say it again. One of the best bumper stickers I ever saw was music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it. It I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not saying pretty people aren't talented.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Things have changed, people look different these days. Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

But it's not about the looks you know, but like back then.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

You look at like Taylor Swift these days, she is very talented. She actually writes some of her own songs, whereas certain other artists, like Beyonce, for example, has stuff written for her.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Um, but Taylor Swift is also a very nice looking person. Yeah, but she also does a huge fucking production in her. Yeah. So she does like all facets of it.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Whereas back then, we don't care about the music. Let's get a let's sell a show. A show, more or less. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Especially in the in the early years of MTV because that's how a lot of people, that's how I got new music back in the day. Especially, you know, like I'd be waiting to see fucking smells like teen spirit videos, you know, lithium and fucking uh all that shit. Whatever from Nirvana and uh everything. So I mean, that's how you got your new music. So it's like, let's make it look pretty.

Frank Farian’s Hitmaking Formula

SPEAKER_03 5:18

So we ha we have a man who already knew how to manufacture success. Sure. His name was Frank Farion.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

And he created Bony M.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Bony M. I know that.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

They became wildly successful across Europe.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

And Farion himself provided some of the vocals behind the scenes while their performers were on stage. And they had this the hit song Resputin.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

That's why I knew them. I forgot their name. Duh. That's why you played it.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

And it's funny because I'm like it right before we hit record. And then I'm like, oh, funny story about that.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

I got a one on tidbit for this song.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

I got a tidbit. The uh person on stage isn't actually singing.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

No, but he looked better than what was I'm sorry, what was the guy's name? Farion?

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Frank Farion.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

And what was his role with them? He was executive producer, I believe. Okay, yeah. I thought it was producer. I couldn't remember when I told you that, but that's so funny. Like I forgot their name was Bony M. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

So I didn't know who Bony M was, and that's why I just looked it up and I was like, oh shit, they had the Res Putin song.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

And it's funny because that song, like as of late, especially because it's shit like TikTok, people doing that dance to it and whatever, yeah, has kind of re-circulated. We call it, I guess. That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Yeah. So excuse me. With Farion doing some of the vocals, he did like the lower vocals, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Which is honestly like the main part of the song because it's the dude like with the low growl, like low vocals singing, and then it's the chorus with the higher shit and whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

So it worked beautifully, and no one questioned it. Auddy audiences loved the illusion.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Um, especially because it was pretty danceable.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Oh, for sure. And that was kind of like a because this that was in the 70s, or is this in the 80s already that that's 70s? Yeah. And that's like the disco time, obviously. Maybe the 80s. Was it the I can't remember? It might be if it was the 80s, it was like like a hangover from the disco time. If it was the 70s, it fits, but it was all very danceable, and that's what people were looking for in the 70s and 80s, basically, because they all were going out to their clubs and doing cocaine and whatever.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

So by the late 1980s, Farion had refined his formula, find great voices, and find better faces.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

So he found Rob Pilatus.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

I always forgot their names. I just know Rob and Fab.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Fab Morvin.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah, Morvin.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

Rob and Fab looked like they were designed specifically for MTV. They had long hair, it was braided, they had flashy style, they were confident, a little rebellious.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

They were the very like ethnic looking, which is very beautiful people, basically.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

And they had presence. Yep. Um, and when they danced, you watched, and they kind of fit this era perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

I I got that dump dance in my head now.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Except for one small thing. They couldn't sing, didn't sing their songs at all. At first, it didn't seem like it would matter much. The actual voices, excuse me, the actual voic vocals were handed. Wow. Let me read that. Okay. The actual vocals were handled by talented session singers.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

People with powerful voices who, for some reason or another, didn't have the look the industry wanted. So they would just be well kind of more recording artists.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, there's background artists. And even to today, there's there's session players where it's like say you have this solo guitar act, right? But he wants to put on an album. He's not just most of them aren't just gonna play guitar for an entire album, they're gonna put the accompanying uh other instruments to it. So they're gonna have a session drummer, a session bassist, so on. And then typically when they go out on tour, they hire not those same people always, but sometimes probably, yeah. And they would hire a band to go out and play with them. Got it. So it's it's it's still a practice today, which is fine. But yes, for whatever reason, it's funny you think like, wow, that fucking person's really talented to put drums to that or name your instrument. Why aren't why why can't they make it on their own? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe they're also just happy that with that role for sure. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Yeah, but so Farin saw an opportunity to pair those voices with Robin Fab's image, and you have something explosive. And for a while it worked. Yeah, the group Millie Vanilli burst onto the scene with polished and infectious energy, their songs were catchy, their music videos were everywhere, and Rob and Fad Fab leaned heavily into these roles, dancing and posing and performing.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Oh, they've they leaned very heavily in it. Yeah, I'm sure you're gonna get to that afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Yeah, so behind the scenes, the situation was more complicated. Rob and Fad did have musical um aspirations. Of course, and they weren't trying to be frauds, but they also were in this machine that was moving really quickly, powered by money and expectation and industry pressure. And the hits were working and the image was working. Yep. And as long as everything stayed in sync, literally in figuratively, um, there wasn't enough incentive to ask questions. Right. So um live performances required careful choreography. Yep. Um, lip syncing isn't rare in pop music, especially in an era where television performances are prioritized, like visual spectacles over like raw performance.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Um, but this was like an entire vocal foundation.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Um, maintaining that kind of illusion over time is I love this metaphor. It's like trying to keep a beach ball underwater. You can do it, but it takes a lot of effort.

Lip Syncing Versus Full Deception

SPEAKER_02 11:23

And eventually it's gonna pop up. Yep, exactly. No, that's a great metaphor because even like so. You know, one of my my my favorite band is Nirvana. I can't remember the what's the name of the show? Um Top of the Pops, I think it's called. It's a British uh I I assume they still do it, but I I know of it from back then, but it was a show over in the UK where they would have bands play, but they would tell them you have to play to a a track, and so they're just there. Oh so there's this one time, and because Dave Grohl, you know, Foo Fighter fame now, um, was the drummer, and like Kurt was fucking pissed about it, and he's like, I don't want to do that. So they did like just ridiculous things, if I'm remembering right to make it obvious that they weren't playing on purpose. Because because they were pissed about it, they're like, fuck that. Yeah, I mean, and I I have to say good on them because I think that's authentic. It is, and being a musician, I get the whole selling the show like kind of thing, like what you said, but um that's horseshit. Yeah, if I'm gonna see a live performance, I want to see a fucking live performance.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

How can you play the drums but not play the drums?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

It's very hard, yeah. Because I growing up, my like some of my inspirations for for drumming were like Dave Grohl, who's a big inspiration on me when I was younger. I play very hard. Yeah. Like I couldn't pull back to the point where you have to like pretend to hit it. Yeah. To the to the point when uh when I was in a band with my brother called Falafel with PHs instead of Fs, um, we went to record four songs, and there's really I forget the guy's name who was recording us. He um can you dial it back five percent? So that became a running joke in our band about me dialing it back five percent because he I don't remember my brother probably remembers this better than I do, but he had said, Yeah, I've never recorded someone who hits as hard as you do. I'm like, okay, I don't know how to change that. Yeah, that's how I play. So I had to try and pull back, but it's hard. So, like for me personally, it's like I don't know how I'm gonna make it look like I'm hitting it without really hitting it. Yeah, especially symbols, yeah. Like they're gonna make that sound, right? And then move. And move, yeah. It's not just be like beek, you know, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

So what made Millie Vanilli so fascinating and so infamous wasn't just the deception, this was surface over substance. Yeah. Um, and they were marketable and they that outweighed being authentic. Yep. Um so they were almost a little bit too perfect because when you build something entirely on image, you're also building it on something fragile because times change, looks change, trends change, um, and the truth has a way of coming up. So weird, right? When Rob and Fab were brought onto the project, they were aware that they were not the ones recording the vocals.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

They understood that their role was to perform the songs publicly and represent the group.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Um, however, they think like understanding the agreement didn't mean that they had control over it.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

But I still feel like you have a role in that.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Well, is that what is that plausible deniability? Is that the correct way to say that?

SPEAKER_03 14:56

So the structure of the project was already set. Most of the decisions were made by Farion and the productive production team. At that point in their careers, Rob and Fab were trying to break into the music industry anyway. So opportunities were limited and success was difficult to achieve without connections or other backing. So being offered to be, so being offered a chance to be a part of a professionally produced act with um access to like high quality, catchy songs in production, it was significant for them. Right. So the situation placed them in a pos Excuse me, in a position where saying no would likely mean walking away from a clear path to success.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Well, yeah, and and it's funny because I obviously don't know how much they got paid to do what they did, but um money, money will do money will do things.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Money talks too, though. It does.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

And you know, they're like, huh. Well, this isn't exactly what we planned out for us musically, but well, let's take it.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

So people within the uh music industry reinforced the idea that lip syncing for like television appearances and things like that was completely normal. Yeah, the message was not presented as like a major ethical issue, but more of a practical way to produce successful music. Right. And when that perspective is then repeated by producers, managers, executives, and then the fans loving what they're hearing and they're getting all this success from the fans, it becomes much easier to accept this part of the show. Yeah, right? Correct. So for Rob and Fad, this meant continuing with the project as it was designed rather than questioning it.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Right. Yeah, because they're like, all right, well, this is our role. Yeah.

Pressure, Plausible Deniability, And Momentum

SPEAKER_03 16:54

So as the group gained attention, their responsibilities focused on maintaining the public image. They learned the choreography, they practiced performances, worked to present themselves as the voices behind the songs. Yeah. Their role required consistency and confidence, especially as their visibility increased, which it did.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Exponentially.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Millie Vanilli's songs performed really well on the charts, and their popularity grew at a rapid pace. And they received extensive radio play and appeared frequently on television and in music videos. And with that level of exposure, they were treated as major pop stars within a very short amount of time.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Oh, yeah. I remember that those times.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

So rapid success also brought increased expectations. Yep. Public appearances, interviews, live performances were much more frequent. Yep. And each of these moments then required them to continue presenting the same image and reinforcing this same identity. And there was little opportunity to step back and reconsider the arrangement once the group has become widely known. Like it's it's like you're you're you can't put the toothpaste pack in the tube kind of a situation.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

I've tried. Boy, have I tried.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

So they were not the ones recording the songs and they had limited influence over creative decisions.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Their position was tied to maintaining the performance aspect of the group rather than the musical direction.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

So this created a situation where um they were central to the group's public success, but not the production. So that imbalance did not immediately disrupt their rise, but it did remain like a defining part of how the group functioned.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

As long as the system continued to produce successful results, there was little incentive to change it.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Well, yeah, because uh again, I don't remember all their songs, but I feel like I feel like the title of this episode needs to be Blame It on the Rain, which is one of their songs.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

I think I mentioned that actually.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

You fucking better. Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

I blame it on the reinforcement.

Hits Take Over The Mainstream

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Millie Vanilli. Blame it on the I can't sing that way. I don't I don't want to pay them any more money. Um but uh yeah, I mean they where is it going with this now? Blame it on the rain, whatever. Continue.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

So by the time Millie Vanilli really broke into the mainstream, one hit turned into another, and they were getting attention pretty much everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Their breakout song, Girl, You Know It's True, fucking ain't right, set the tone. So it was catchy, it was easy to remember, and it fit perfectly into that late 80s pop audiences wanted. Yep. Um, of course, it didn't take like long to climb the charts, charts, and the momentum from that one track carried directly into their next release, including Blame It on the Rain. Yep. And that only pushed them further into the spotlight. So they were consistently producing hits, and that consistency is what turned them into major stars. Yep. The American market is competitive and breaking through in a meaningful way was very tough. Usually takes time. Yeah. And they skipped a lot of that process.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

They basically went to the front of the line on a lot of a lot of that shit because they just became again. I remember, were you too young for them to like to remember them? Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Okay, because I know I would have to listen to their hit songs just and I happened, so and that's fine, but you would probably remember them even after the fact.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

But like I remember them like gaining fame and like their shit. Like, I literally I was probably nine, yeah, eight, nine, whatever, and I had their cassette tape on the bus. But it's just funny that like it's sad.

The Grammy Moment And Industry Critique

SPEAKER_03 20:52

So they were doing interviews, appearing on television, events, magazines, their names were being mentioned along other major pop acts of the time. And from the outside, it looked like textbook success, right? Yeah. For Rob and Fab, this kind of rapid rise meant adjusting quickly, which didn't give much time to get comfortable. Um, each successful single like increased expectations for the next one. Sure. And each public appearance mattered more than the last. Of course. So that led to their peak. When they won a Grammy, the 1990 Grammy Awards.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, this is where it all kind of started, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Yeah. So they were awarded the Grammy Award in 1990 for Best New Artist. It confirmed that they weren't just popular, they were actually officially recognized in the music industry. The award is meant to highlight artists who are expected to have a lasting impact, and at that Moment, every sick thing suggested that Millie Vanilli was exactly that kind of act.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

I'd like to interject something with what you just said about having a lasting impact. Yes. The Grammys don't give a fuck about that these days. No, they are such an atrocious fucking award ceremony. They just give out to what's popular for the minute, yeah, and then they fucking move on.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Because most Grammys given out to the artists today are like, yeah, here you go, you're so good. And then like, where the fuck did they go?

SPEAKER_05 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I fucking hate the Grammys. The Grammys are stupid. Yeah. Plus, they also don't, they they catered only to pop and to certain like versions of pop. Uh whatever. They don't ever care about rock music. They don't care about a lot of rap music. Because they're I'm not a big rap fan, but there's some rap that's fucking awesome. But like I don't need to hear another fucking Drake song. Fuck that guy.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

I don't even I don't even know what a song of his is.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

He's from Kannada, so I don't know what that means. Canada.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Oh. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

I'm just I am personally, no offense to Drake. I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Yeah. But couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

But like, you know, or like at least, you know, certain people who win Grammy still still win right write their own music.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

But like to me, it's like it's such a farce because most of them don't even fucking win write their own music these days. And the and that artist wins an award for that song. You didn't even fucking write it. You sang it. Yeah. Maybe played some guitar to it if you're capable enough to do that. But it's like the music industry is so fucked compared to where it used to be, in my opinion. Yeah. And I'm allowed to that.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

It's my truth. So winning a Grammy changes how an artist is viewed at the time.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Um, credibility, uh, visibility, level of prestige, it kind of goes all into that. I have to Burbie.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah, you do. You should get a Grammy for that.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

For Rob and Fab, it meant being placed in the same conversation as other respected musicians.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah, which makes it tough.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

More attention, more opportunity, more pressure.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

What do they say? More money, more problems?

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Yes. So looking at that moment in isolation, everything was lining up perfectly. They had hit songs, strong sales, they had the look, the media presence, the recognition, the Grammy. Um, from a business and marketing standpoint, it was also a success. The system behind them had done it done its job. Correct. And when things when things happen that quickly, there isn't much room to pause. Nope. You move from one milestone to the next. From the outside, it looks stable and successful.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

From the inside, it's rotting. It's rotting.

unknown 24:48

Rotting to the core.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Up until this point, everything has worked exactly as it was supposed to.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Good old variant.

The Live Track Glitch Exposes Them

SPEAKER_03 25:00

The entire setup depended on one thing going right every single time, and that was the performance. Correct. More specifically, the track.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah. Things have a funny way of not always working out.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

So during a live performance, that system finally failed.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Sure did.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

They were performing, Girl, you know it's true, in front of a large crowd. This was high visibility performance. Yeah. And the music starts, Rob and Fab are doing exactly what they've done times time and time before, moving in sync, hitting their cue. See the X on the on the stage. I gotta go there and point two. Exactly. From the audience's perspective, perfect. Like this is this is what we know. Until the track glitches. Sure did. Instead of continuing forward, the line repeats girl, you know it's, girl, you know it's girl, you know it's.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Have you seen the video? I was I was alive during this.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

So it was like you were there? I was not there. You were alive, yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yes. Um it's I mean, it's probably been, well, 35 years since I've seen this, but or whatever. But yeah, I I do remember this vaguely.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

So it was confusing to start. Technical issues aren't unusual at a live show.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

No, of course not.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Uh but um the reputation didn't exactly correct. Sorry, not reputation, the repetition didn't correct itself. It keeps going, stuck in the same phrase over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

I always wondered, because like when you play like a record, that can happen, or it can skip. What were they playing that wouldn't be you know, it's fucking weird that they had something that was not would it not be a record? Well, you wouldn't think so. I mean, CDs were available at that time. Um I mean, shit, it could have been real to real, as far as we know. I don't I have no idea what they were playing. I find it hard to believe it would have been a record, though. There's no way it means but even a cassette tape. Did you were you old enough to ever have to like fucking rewind a tape with a pencil cassette with a pencil because the fucking tape got caught or something or whatever? I mean, maybe it was that. I don't know. Yeah, I I always was curious what medium they were playing this through where it fucking glitched and started drill, you know it.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah. So because there's no right way to recover from not actually singing this malfunction, yeah, Rob and Fab, they they leave the stage. They're just like, bye.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Peace, we're out of here.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Yeah. There's no way to fix the situation.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Well, how can you? I mean, you literally were just ousted in front of a giant fucking crowd.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Walking on, walking off in the middle of a performance doesn't happen without a reason. Yep. Um, and the issue played out in front of everyone. Do you remember the Ashley Simpson SNL lip syncing bullshit that happened? I don't remember what year that was.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

I I I don't really.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

She um she came out as the musical performer on SNL, started singing, quote unquote singing, and they played a different song, and she's like, that's the wrong song. That's the wrong song. And then she did some kind of like hoe-down dance because she was really awkward about everything, and then ran off stage.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

That's I do vaguely remember that.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah, and then the very next week, Kate Winslet was the host. The host.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Did they make fun of it?

SPEAKER_03 29:21

They made they didn't quite make fun of it, but they said, Nope, this is live. And she like pulls down the microphone and and she's the singer. She's actually singing.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

She can sing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Yeah, so she pulls down the microphone and she sings and she dances and she's like, This is all real, this is all live.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Uh I love Kate Winslet. Me too. She's pretty great.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

She's she's one of my favorites. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Except let Jack on the Dory.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Anyways. Okay. So people started connecting the dots.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

From that moment on, the conversation about Rob and Fab change.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah, it went from you guys are amazing to what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03 30:00

Yeah. So up to now, the role had been to maintain the performance. That job depended on running running smoothly every single time.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Which it did not.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

It's not a full collapse yet, but because people are putting dots together.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Well, and also to their luck at the time, there's no internet.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Yeah. There's no TikTok, there's no Twitter, nothing that can be like replayed over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Like, holy fuck, I was at the Mill of Millie vanilli concert. Look what just happened. Yeah. And send it out, and then it goes fucking viral or whatever the kids say these days. So they didn't have that. So it was a more of a slow roll than it would have been today. Yeah.

Confession, Grammy Revoked, And Lawsuits

SPEAKER_03 30:42

So after that live up um performance, um they became a controversy. Sure did. The media moved quickly, and there's the tone changed really fast. Um reports began focusing less on the music and more on how the group started working behind the scenes. Yep. Um, the performance gave people some something concrete to be like, no, I was there. I was witness to that. Yeah, I saw it. And that made the journalist be able to dig deeper without the internet being there, you know? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

You know, actual journalism.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Not like shit today.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

So Frank Farrian stepped in and he actually confirmed it. He publicly admitted that Rob and Fab were not the actual singers on their records. The vocals had always been done by studio performers. What had been uh speculation now becomes fact. And once that happened, there was not any room to control this narrative. The admission changed everything.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

There's no turning back.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yeah. And Robin Fab comes uh in the very early in '88. He comes in the studio, or in in the end of uh 87. He has an idea when you have uh maybe it's something possible for demos that was very bad. And they looked very great. And I think maybe in the next time we have an idea for you. And then we created uh the music, you know, it's true. The the name was finished, and uh the music was finished, and then make one click in my mind. And the crazy idea was we make the second album of Millie Vanilli, expected we did make the same job in in uh like uh two years ago, and we created uh 12 new songs, and the album is finished, and uh we involved new things, that's right. Um I think uh good album, and I think that's fair to everybody where it's the real thing, no, I'm very proud. Uh it was great music, and then everybody gives them uh the cramming and uh I'm very proud. It was good music. Everybody everybody did it. I think the music is the one thing the music is I think uh we have not another problem with it. The music was real and it was great music, and I think uh maybe for ten dollars, and for ten dollars. And uh I think we have no problem. We have uh we have uh I think maybe uh okay if we're gonna get it in a tool.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

So fans who bought albums, attended performances, supported the group, now feel like they've been misled. They were duped. Yes, yeah, so now the focus has turned on accountability. One of the biggest consequences came from the music industry itself, the 1990 Grammy Award for Best New Artist.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

They had to return it, correct?

SPEAKER_03 34:27

Yes, that award was revoked. Yep, and the Grammys don't really do that, so this was seriously taken.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

No, that would that was especially in the early 90s, that was a huge slap to the fucking face. Yeah. That like, yeah, you guys screwed up, screwed up, you you duped us. Um, you are not what you say you are, so that's coming back. You guys are stricken from the record, yeah, more or less.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

And then at the same time, legal issues started to develop. Fans started filing lawsuits, arguing that they had purchased music and tickets under false assumptions. The claims were based on the idea that they believed Rob and Fab were the voices behind the songs, and that influenced their decision to support the group. Sure. Whether or not every fan would have made a different choice, you know, if they had known it's hard to measure.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

You can't, that's just pure fucking speculation. You could never ever guess what that would be. No. Um, because again, I mean, there's plenty of pop stars at lip sync, which is really sad.

SPEAKER_06 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

I I I would never want to go to one of those shows.

SPEAKER_06 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

And most of them say, no, I don't. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Yeah. So the situation has gone from public relations to financial to legal. Yep. Um, and we're no longer just dealing with criticism. Now it's the collapse of an identity.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Their names were now tied in a scandal. They were tarnished, they did try to respond. Uh, there were attempts to rebrand and continue in the music industry under different terms.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

They they actually released an album called Rob and Fab, didn't they? Like it was named after themselves, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

I don't I don't think I read that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

I'm almost positive they tried to release it, it was either named Rob and Fab or it was just they were Rob and Fab then released an album, whatever the title was. I'm almost positive they did.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Trying to be like, no, hey, we're actual musicians.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

I know they they did try to do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

I don't remember if I knew if it was actually released or whatever, but I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they did, but that's again my just shoddy memory trying to remember shit.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

So they gave interviews and tried to explain their side of the story, emphasizing that they had not created the system that they were a part of, but that they had been operating with Frank Farin. But Farin already admitted that, so it's like you're still a part of this.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

But the thing is, it's like, oh no, no, we we didn't do this, we were just we were the puppets or whatever. It's like, no, you went along with it. If this, if you felt moral, like morally against us, you went with it. Yeah. So that's so unfortunately on you still.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

So they did try to sing, they worked on recording new material using their own voices, aiming to rebuild uh credibility, um, but the damage had already been done.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

And it wasn't good either. Wasn't it? It was not at all.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

So the association with the scandal was strong, and it followed them into any attempt at a comeback. Um, even if they were now doing things differently, it was difficult for audiences to separate that from what had already happened. Oh, for sure. Yes. Trust is broken, it's hard to rebuild quickly. It was a rapid rise and then a rapid collapse.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

So after the scandal broke, um what had been admiration now turned into ridicule overnight. The same media outlets that had helped him build up were now running headlines that treated them like a punchline, uh, late night shows, interviews, magazines, it was all about the fall. Yep. So for Rob and Fab, the public reaction was relentless and they were criticized and they were mocked, and the narrative simplified everything down to one idea that they were frauds.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

And I will say this. Um, again, we just went over the fact that well, they went along with it and everything. Yeah. I felt bad for them, especially the outcome of their lives because of what happened. It affected them so much that because I don't remember which one did it, but didn't one took his own life, right? Um could you imagine like what am I trying to say? Frank Farian is the one who fucking created this, but yet they were the ones, because they were the face that took the brunt of fucking everything. And it's really not fair that they're the ones that got so shit on after they were found out, we'll call we'll say. But but again, they were complacent and be like, well, we're making money, we're in this big act. So they they were a part of it, but they weren't the only part of it. So why did they get all the blame though? Which is just fucking blows my mind.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

So um once the scandal became public, there was clear effort to separate the business from the fallout and res responsibility shifted. And of course, like you said, a lot of it landed on Robin Fab.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

I'd say 98% of it did.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Yeah. And that's where the idea of scapegoating comes in. Frank Farin had already admitted how the project worked, but the long-term consequences didn't hit him the same way. Correct. Producers, executives, and others involved in shaping the group's success continued working in the industry. Yeah, weird, right? While Rob and Fab were left dealing with the public fallout in a very personal way.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Very personal way.

Rob’s Spiral And A Tragic Death

SPEAKER_03 40:16

For Fab, the situation was difficult. Um, he managed to stay somewhat steady over time, but with Rob, it was more complicated.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, that was that was the one is correct.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Um Rob struggled in the years following the scandal. Um, the loss of career momentum combined with um public humiliation and contribution.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

He faced legal trouble, including arrests related to theft and other issues. That's sad. Um, each incident reinforced the same narrative, making it harder for him to move past it. There were struggles with addiction. Substance abuse became part of Rob's life during that period. Yep. Um, he had gone from rapid fame to public rejection to in a very short amount of time. That's so sad. It was like whiplash for them. At different points, Rob and Fab tried to rebuild the careers, working on new music. Um, and there were also efforts at personal recovery, particularly for Rob.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

He entered rehab, spoke publicly about wanting to get on track. Uh, these moments showed that he was aware of the situation and was just trying to change his direction. Um, recovery is rarely straightforward. There's a lot of ups and downs. There were setbacks, and many of them were in in a very public way.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Um, by 1998, um, things did reach a breaking point, and Rob Pilatus uh died of an overdose at the age of 32.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

God damn.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Um, I remember when he I do remember when he passed. I remember that was news. I mean. It's just really sad that again, and that's why I'm kind of again, they were part of it. Yeah. We've said that. But that's what irritates me is this person ended up putting himself in a situation that whether it was intentional or unintentional, losing his life over because of the fallout of what happened. It was all fucking downhill from there for him. And it's just really sad. And it's like, yeah, that sucked. I mean, what you guys did, not great. But it wasn't just him. Why didn't Frank Farion get more or all the other producers involved, and so on? It's like to have someone's life just end because of it, it's really quite sad.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Because Frank Farin was just a name. Rob and Fab were a name and a face.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

They were the face, and that's 100% why most of the blame 60% of the time it works all the time. You just dropped that.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Yeah, I dropped the bottom cap.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

I know.

Lip Syncing Today And Genre Expectations

SPEAKER_03 42:48

So in Rob's case, um, the consequences of the fallout uh affected his career, and they also followed him all the way to the end.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

If you hear lip syncing today, it doesn't carry quite the same weight as it did during the Millie Vanilli scandal.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

No.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Back then it was deception. Now it's more of a gray area.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Well, but but here the okay, lip syncing is one thing. If you wrote it and you're lip syncing to your own. But it's at they actually sang it.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

These guys didn't do anything. No, they just lip sync to somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

So most lip sync to karaoke, more or less.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

So anyways.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

So most modern performances aren't just an artist and a microphone. They're built for consistency, big tours, televised events, and that means um backing tracks, layered vocals, sometimes fully pre recorded vocals. It's not about covering a lack of talent, covering like a lack of talent, uh but more about maintaining this high level of performance. Well, dance. And moving and dealing with unpredictable sound conditions.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

So audiences now kind of understand this. They may not know every technical detail, but they know the performances aren't always fully live. So the expectation has shifted. It's less about perfect live vocals every time and more about just delivering an engaging overall experience. So this shift has changed how artists are judged. Vocal ability still matters, but so does stage presence and visuals and performance quality, at least in the pop scene.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Okay, thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

And as you're saying all of this, but you know what genre they don't do this in?

SPEAKER_03 44:44

And I mentioned that.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Um, so social media also adds pressure. Live clips and unedited moments spread quickly. There's more visibility, faster accountability than there used to be. Um, and presenting fully pre-recorded vocals as completely live can still draw criticism. As it should. And different genres play by different rules. Pop tends to be more about production support while rock, country, and some RB audiences expect stronger live vocals and are quicker to question heavy lip syncing. Yep. So artists today have a little bit more control. Many are involved in their own production and branding and choosing of their performances, whether how much of their performance is live versus how much is lip-synced. Um, and it gives them a little bit more ownership over their image. So lip syncing is now kind of more seen as a tool. It um if it enhances the performance, an audience accepted, if it replaces the core of what the audience is supposed to deliver, then that is what creates the tension. So the expectation is no longer perfection, it's about balance, at least in the pop scene. In the pop scene, because like if Because they're all dancing so much. Okay, like so one of How can you keep up with the vocals doing that?

Concert Authenticity And Phone Fatigue

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Well, and that's the one okay, I'll start here then. One of my I I don't care for her music per se. I I like to watch Dua Lipa dance. She could be on fucking mute and I'd be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

I don't even know who she is.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Exactly. I don't know many of her songs, I don't care for them, doesn't matter. One of the last concerts I've been to was Fish. Do you remember when I told you I went to that with my brother and his uh brother-in-law? So I don't even know. They're rock, they're like a jam, they're jam-band rock, whatever. They're fucking amazing. They're super fucking talented. Drummer, guitarist, keyboardist, everything. They're super fucking talented. They've been around since the late 80s. And um one of the things with fish is every show you go to is different. Literally different. They could play the same fucking set every show, but it's going to be different because they're gonna jam out here longer, they're gonna do this different, they're gonna do a tweezer into blah blah blah song. I I don't I don't know as them as well as my brothers, but they have a lot of songs where they go from this song to this song back to this song, tweez a reprise or something like that, whatever. They're so fucking talented to be able to do that. And you know, I go one of my other favorite bands of all time is corn. I've seen corn over 30 fucking times in my life, they are fucking awesome live, just fantastic. I would be so heartbroken if Jonathan Davis came out and lip synced to something, and he never would. I'm not saying he would, but I would just be like, Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Because that expectation is there for it to be live, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

And and that's what I love about seeing like corn live and seeing Jonathan Davis sing his music, is because there's consistency but also variations to it, yeah, and it's just so fucking good live. And you know, uh, for example, you can't you can't lip sync to a song, and I it was uh this was very early on in their career off their first album. They had a song, they have a song on their first album called Ball Tongue, and that I would literally see them play that live. They would stop at one point and go into a different song that wasn't even theirs. They play it and go back into ball tongue. It was fucking awesome. You can't lip sync to that, yeah, because it it it would be too uh programmed to um, I want to say script it, but it would just be it wouldn't be right, yeah, it wouldn't feel right because authentic, it wouldn't feel authentic, and that's what irritates me again, being a musician. That so many people like today are like, yeah, well, she lip synced during half of this song, but she sang the rest. It's like fuck you, sing the whole fucking song. Yeah, don't lip sync, because that to me is not what I paid for. Because you know what I could do is spend$13 on your fucking album and listen to it at home instead of going out to see some stupid production that you put on. One of my things is, and I'm not faulting people who like this, that's their thing. I'm talking for me. This is my personal preferences and so on, opinions, whatever. But like to me, I don't want to go to a show where there's fucking costume changes. Don't fucking care. I want to see the music being played. Yeah, and one other side note do you know what I really hate at concerts these days? What people just fucking holding their phones up and recording it. Yeah, I hate the age we live in. Enjoy the show. You paid this money to go to the show, don't watch it through your phone. You're fucking there. Yeah, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

That's all I have on Millie Vanilli.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Okay, sorry, I went out.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

I knew you were gonna get heated during this one.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

So I I was around for all of this. I remember it. I remember them winning their Grammy, I remember them having to give it back, and you know, being stricken from the record and all that stuff. It is sad. Uh, do do you know is um Fab still alive? Could you look that up for me? Because I knew I I was drawing a blank on which one unfortunately passed, but it was Rob.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

Yeah, he's um he's still alive.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Okay, good. So was he Millie or was he vanilli? Anyways, I always forget if they're they actually had like a persona, like no idea. You're Millie, I'm vanilli. Okay, anyways, but like it's just really sad that he got to a point where his life ended so fucking young, too. He's 32 fucking years old. That's ridiculous. Yeah, and um, it's just really sad that they took the brunt of all of it, yeah, because they again they were the face, yeah, you know, and they they were complicit in and going through with it, so they're like, Well, this is on you guys. No, it's on everybody, but yeah, they were the face. Yeah, I don't know. I love going to concerts, I am very selective in what the concerts I go to these days because they're so expensive. Oh my gosh. But like you had kind of said, even with the pop stuff about how they they're all about the production and so on and whatever. It's because the music industry industry has changed so much with it. Started with iTunes, even where you could buy a single song. Yeah. No, I remember going, I was so excited. I remember one day, so Stone Temple Pilots. I have a funny story about Stone Temple Pilots real quick that I just heard. It was really weird. Great fucking band. I never got to see no, I did get to see them live. Duh. I saw them at the Bradley Center. It's no longer there. It was uh during I don't remember what tour, doesn't matter. Um but if you'd like it, was it 1999? Anyways, um you get frustrated with me because I remember shit like that. But um uh where was I even going with Stone Topopilots? I do have a funny story about them, but reel me back in. Where was I going with this?

SPEAKER_03 52:28

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

Do you have to pee?

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Really bad.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

So I went to the Welp, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

Go pee.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Alright, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

Where To Find The Show

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Hit us up on social media where History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at history buffoonspodcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.