You're Killin' Me Smalls: Robert Smalls

Birthdays, Pills, And Lemon Cake

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We're the history of buffoons.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

I'm Kate.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I'm Bradley.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

I am well. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:26

I'm very good, thank you. Excellent. Yes. I um I recently had a birthday.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

You did, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

And um I got sick.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

You did, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

And I found out this morning that it was probably because I missed my pills that day.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Well done. Yeah. Well, I mean, at least hopefully you've narrowed it down to why you weren't feeling good. Hopefully that was it. Or why you were feeling off, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

And I like, I'm gonna go to the doctor and everything. So I have a doctor's appointment coming up in a couple of weeks because that was like the first time I could get in.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

And my uh my calendar aligned.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I'm gonna keep that appointment because I need to establish care somewhere anyway. But sure, makes sense. Now I'm just a dumbass who forgets her pills. But I have a cake waiting for me. Huzzah! I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

That'll be nice for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Yeah, my friend Sam made a lemon raspberry cake and I decided to try it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Lemon sounds delish. Delish.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Like really refreshing.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

It is. Like our drinks.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

We don't have uh beers today. We're taking the beer day off. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Um we got ourselves a starry.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, so it's got lemon in it and lime.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Did you hear about the whole name change reason? Yeah, because Sierra Miss to Stari.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

They let the the copyright lapse and they couldn't get it back because someone else took it.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Someone else took uh I heard it was like um uh a um adult dancer who took it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah, it's something like that. I uh I don't know if this is right. It was something like that, or this chick who claims to be an airline service but does like porn with all the people.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Or something. I heard two different things.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Either way, oh, whoever did that got fired. Anyway, well, I mean whoever let it lapse got fired. But starry is still delicious. So cheers to our lemon lime soda.

Why Robert Smalls Matters

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yep, that's lemony. That's lemony. Alright, what do we got today?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

So today we're gonna talk about um Robert Smalls.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Like, you're killing me, Smalls?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Wouldn't that be the wouldn't that be cute, but no? Robert Smalls um stole a ship.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Like a on the watership?

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yeah. Well, I mean it was docked. Spaceship? Oh no, no, no. A watership. Yeah, an ocean ship. A watership. A watership.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Not a spaceship. Okay, just making sure, because there's a plethora of ships.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Well, I suppose. I suppose a bath ship, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Ships everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Sh wouldn't you know? Okay. Okay. That sounded very scony with that one, wouldn't you know? Don't you know? Um, no, he he ha um stole a um an army ship.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Oh. What what year are we talking about?

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Oh, I will tell you.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Well, I mean, I would fucking hope so. Yes. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

We're just gonna get right into it right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Oh, so you're just gonna wait to tell me when it comes up in your story?

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Oh no, it's the very first sentence. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

All right, let's get to it. When it is. Okay, let's why are we still talking about this? Let's go. Oh my word.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

May 12th, 1862.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

All right, back in the mid-1800s, we go.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yes, it was a quiet night in Charleston Harbor. Charleston Harbor, South Carolina. Have you ever been?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

I've been to North Carolina once in my life. I've never been to South Carolina. I haven't been on the East Coast a lot, just to Boston, Maine once. Drove through, I guess, New York then to get to Maine.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Um where's Myrtle Beach?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Is that isn't that in one of the Carolinas?

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah, is that North Carolina? I've got a friend that lives in North Carolina, and we all went to Myrtle Beach with her.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Well, then it must be that.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

But it must, so it must be North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, it must be.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Oh, wow. Why I suck at geography. Maybe that should be our next um podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

How about we focus on this one first?

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Myrtle Beach is in South Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Oh, it is. Okay. I knew it was the Carolinas. I just didn't, I again, I I haven't been out there enough to know certain things.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah, but it's really close to um uh the border of North Carolina. So maybe that's why I was so funky monkey about it. But um, okay, so we're talking Charleston. So the American Civil War had been raging on for more than a year at this point, right? And Charleston remained one of the most

Charleston Harbor Under Confederate Control

SPEAKER_03 5:10

important cities of the Confederacy.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Is it because it was a port?

SPEAKER_03 5:14

It was a port, yeah. Confederate soldiers um guarded the the harbor, forts would watch over the water, and warships would move supplies and troops throughout the channels surrounding the city. Sure makes sure. Because there's a couple like um rivers that kind of split off from the harbor and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

So rivers run through it?

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Rivers run through it.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

That's a movie.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

So everything about the harbor was designed to keep enemies out and maintain Confederate control. Sure. So on May 12th of 1862, that particular night, one of the greatest threats to the Confederacy was already sitting inside the harbor.

unknown 5:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

And his name was Robert Smalls.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

And okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

At first glance, there was nothing about him that would have caused any type of alarm. He was 23 years old.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

All right.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

And worked aboard a Confederate transport vessel called the Planter.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

So he is from the South.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

He is from the South.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Was he a uh did he was he a turncoat and work for the North then?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

No, but I will tell you who he is.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Robert Smalls.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yes. So the ship. Oh, I will give you details. Trust me. Trust me.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Okay, don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

This is a slightly slow reveal.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Oh, good lord.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Anyways. The ship was not like a massive war ship loaded with like guns and artillery, um, but it played a super important role in moving troops and supplies and military equipment around the Charleston area.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

So Confederate officers trusted the vessel, trusted its crew, trusted the routines that it had developed, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

So on May 12th, as the darkness kind of settled over the harbor, the ship's white officers followed a habit that they had developed over time. Which was rather than sleeping aboard the vessel, they left for the night and then returned to shore.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Oh, so they slept on land. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

So the practice actually violated military regulations of the time, but it had become common enough that people didn't really question it.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Sure, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Um the officers walked away expecting everything to be exactly as they had left it when they returned the next morning.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Instead, they unknowingly handed control of the ship to the very man who had been planning to steal it.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

All right.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

And the risks were impossible to exaggerate. If Robert Smalls was discovered before leaving the harbor, he would most certainly be executed. Sure. The same fate would await the other crewmen involved in this plan.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

So he he had a bunch of people that were gonna do this with him. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Yes. Um, so Smalls had spent years learning every detail of Charleston Harbor. Okay. He knew the waterways, the channels, the tides, the location of all the forts, the signals even required to move through the harbor without attracting suspicion.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Oh, sure, yeah. That's probably smart.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Mm-hmm. He knew which officers expected certain whistle blasts, he knew which checkpoints would be watching, and most importantly, he knew how to operate this ship.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

The Confederacy had unknowingly trained the perfect man to steal one of its own vessels. So before Dawn arrived, Smalls intended to sail directly past armed Confederate fortifications, pick up family members and other crewmen, pass beyond the harbor defenses, and deliver the ship to the Union Navy.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Okay. So was he in like correspondence with the North then?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

No. Robert Smalls was born enslaved.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Right, I figured that.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

On April 5th of 1839, in Beaufort, South Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I think that's the day that Kirk O'Bain died. April 5th. I don't know. Could be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Like millions of other enslaved people living in the American South, he entered the world with virtually no control over his own for uh future.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

The laws of the time treated enslaved people as property rather than citizens, and their lives were largely dictated by the decisions of others.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Much about Small's um early life um is pretty uncertain, but historians believe his mother worked as a domestic servant in the household of John McKee.

unknown 9:35

John McKee.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Um is he like notable for any reason? Just that's who she works for. That's just who it is, yeah. Because I'm like, I don't recognize that name.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Um because Robert spent much of his childhood around the McKee household rather than in the fields, he witnessed a world that many enslaved people never had the opportunity to see up close.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Well, sure, because they're usually, like you said, out in the fields and then they go back to their little whatever the fuck they had for them, cabins, huts, or whatever the hell they were.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So they didn't get to see the

Smalls Learns The Waterways

SPEAKER_03 10:05

lavish lifestyle of of the owners, if you really so he actually observed business transactions, conversations, the daily workings of people who possessed f power and influence. Right. His mother worried that hit this relatively sheltered environment might leave him unprepared for the harsh realities faced by other enslaved people. Sure. Ooh, excuse me. Um, so by later accounts, she arranged for him to spend time working outside the household so that he could better understand the conditions experienced by others living under slavery.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

So whether intentional intentional or not, those experiences had a lasting impression.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

As a teenager, Smalls developed a reputation for intelligence, confidence, and determination.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Was he a big guy?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, he was. He he he I'm not sure what he looked like younger, but there's images of him as an as an adult, and he is on the bigger side.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Kind of funny as his name is Smalls. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

So he was ambitious in ways that could be dangerous for an enslaved person living in the South because rather than accepting the narrow role society expected him to have, right? He was constantly looking for opportunities to learn new skills. Sure. Eventually, those opportunities led him to Charleston. And by the 1850s, Charleston was one of the busiest ports in the South. Smalls worked a variety of jobs along the busy waterfront.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

He labored as a longshoreman loading and unloading cargo. He worked in a lamp lighting business, spent time around sailors, merchants, and ship crews. Um, and um every position exposed him to new people and new knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Most importantly, he gravitated towards this maritime work. So Charleston Harbor was filled with vessels of every size, and souls became fascinated by how they operated.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Well, I mean, curiosity, that's a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I mean, especially then you want to learn everything you can.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

So So I remember when I lived in Omaha or near Omaha when I was a kid, I would babysit our neighbors.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

And I remember telling my mom once that they ask so many questions. It was just question after question after question, and I was so sick of answering all these questions. And my mom's response was, Oh, they're gonna be very, very smart because they're so curious and they have all these questions, they're gonna be smart. I was like, Oh.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I used to ask my parents a lot of questions. You're smart, you're right. You're smart, but but that stayed with me.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

I was like, okay, they're curious, they want to know things.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Oh, 100%. I mean, you've you've met my daughter.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Oh my gosh, she is so smart.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

She constantly is asking questions, and it's like, why are you asking me this? It means literally nothing, but to her, it might mean everything. More knowledge. Yeah, because she just doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Need input number five. Need okay. So Smalls learned how how cargo was moved, how crews communicated, how ships navigated crowded crowded waterways, and how experienced pilots guided vessels through the harbor shifting channels and sandbars.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

What's a pilot on a ship?

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Um a pilot is different than a captain.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Um, the captain is in charge of everything on the ship.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Oh, right, he's the captain.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yeah, and the pilot helps navigate um in like narrow and well, just he helps navigate more or less.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I didn't realize ships had a pilot. Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

So over time he developed skills as a sailor and navigator and gained a detailed understanding of the harbor itself.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

All right.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

So unlike formal schooling, which was largely Oliver, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Oliver was hitting the stand of the microphone. He's like, ooh, this looks fun.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

I will move my stand. I was just like, what are you doing? Oh, that was me.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, that was that was you. That was my cat. It was your cat, but I see his face trying to look out of the door. He's so weird.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

He's a weird cat, but he's so great. I know he's got a good one. He's gonna be a great uncle when I've got two new ones coming in. Oh matters. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, what three more weeks than they no, four weeks and they get their shots.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

August 5th.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

So I guess three three and a half weeks, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

I'm so excited. So unlike formal schooling, which was large largely denied to enslaved people, yeah. This education came from observation, repetition, and experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Which I feel is really lost in this day and age.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Everyone's go to college, go to college, go, and I'm not saying college is bad, it's right for some people, but there's some people like myself. I learn by doing and watching people do it, and then I do it kind of thing. Right. That's how I've always been.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

And I feel like there needs to be more people that also go that route and just don't go into debt by going to college. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

So I mean like the the trades are so big.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Well, and they're under under um staffed, if you will. Yeah. So I think few there's people that need to realize that college isn't always the right choice. I'm not saying it's the wrong choice for everybody, but do your homework more or less.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

So I have a a a BA, I guess a BS, a BS.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I'm a BA. Um you do a BS a lot. Shut up.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

I have a bachelor of science um in management. And that has got me like a leg up, but I've never really used it.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Right. Well, and Sarah has I think she has something with a minor, if I'm not mistaken. That sounded really terrible. She didn't do anything with a minor. Wow. She has a degree with a minor degree as well.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

So she has like a major and a minor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah. Um and she watches kids. Not what she went to school for. So uh I mean, luckily we paid off all of her student loans, so we don't owe that anymore because that was a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, I'm still trying to pay off mine.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, and uh whatever, but I do not have any degree. Um and yeah, I deliver snacks, so F my life.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

But you actually make pretty good money.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I mean, for what I do, yeah, I guess I do.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

But okay, so anyways. Smalls listened, listened carefully, asked questions where he could, and paid attention to details that others might overlook. And the result was a practical education that proved every bit as valuable as if you were in a classroom. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

By the time that Robert Smalls arrived in Charleston, the United States was moving towards a crisis that had been building for decades.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Do you know what year he showed up in Charleston? Because you said this is in 1862 when he stole the ship, but do you know what year he

The Planter And A Dangerous Routine

SPEAKER_00 17:10

actually showed up there?

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Um, so he was in, I think he was there in like the 1850s.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

He was, okay. Because you had said 1850s before, but I don't even sure if that's when he actually arrived in Charleston.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah. So arguments over slavery, states' rights, and political power had divided the country so deeply that many Americans no longer believed compromise was possible. Nope. So that tension finally exploded following the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

So Southern states began leaving the Union, forming the Confederate States of America, and preparing for the possibility of war. Wouldn't that be a time to live in?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Oh my god, that'd be fucking wild. Yeah. I couldn't even imagine what all those people went through.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

And and South Carolina was in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

So when did when did they name North and South Carolina? I feel like one of those should be a different name, and then also like Virginia and West Virginia. We should really have different names. We could have two different states' names, but yet we got fucking lazy and just named one North, one South.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah. I I don't do you want me to look that up? Not really. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

It's not important. I just was I was thinking that when you kept bringing up South Carolina and you mentioned North. I'm like, when did those actually become like your your your mic likes to go down?

SPEAKER_03 18:30

I know. It's it's hold on one second. Sorry, people.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Hold please.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Okay, so in December of 1860, South Carolina became the first state to succeed from the Union. Right. Charleston suddenly found itself on the front lines of a conflict that had not officially started yet, but was increasingly inevitable.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Soldiers filled the city, defenses were strengthened, and fortifications around the harbor became more important than ever. Then on April of 1861, the waiting ended. Confederate forces opened fire on Fort Sumter.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

A Union-held fort sitting in the middle of the Charleston Harbor.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

The bombardment lasted more than 30 hours and marked the official beginning of the American Civil War.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Which is crazy that it was that long.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

30 hours, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Well, especially because like back then we're talking 1861, they're shooting cannonballs, you know, and shit like that. It's like, yeah, holy fuck. That would have been I would not have wanted to been in Fort Sumter for that. Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

For many people in Charleston, the attack represented a movement of pride and celebration, but for smalls, it represented something very different. The outbreak of war did not bring freedom. If anything, it tightened the system that already controlled every aspect of his life.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Yet the war created opportunities that had not existed before. The Confederacy dis uh desperately needed skilled workers, sailors, and pilots. Ships needed crews, supplies needed transportation, harbors needed experienced men who understood local waterways.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

And Smalls was one of those men. As the conflict expanded, he found work aboard the vessel The Planter.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

The Planter.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Officially designed as a transport steamer, the Planter was not built to fight major naval battles. No. Instead, it was a workhorse. The ship moved soldiers, ammunition, artillery pieces, dispatches, and supplies between Confederate positions and Charleston Harbor and the surrounding coastline. The vessel's importance came from mobility rather than firepower. For Smalls, however, the planter was much more valuable. Every voyage expanded his knowledge of Confederate operations.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Sure. I mean, he's picking that up as he as they're doing their thing. So he understands where like where they're going, what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Literally the ins and outs of every aspect.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

No, for sure. I mean, and that's very good information for someone who wants to eventually thievery the ship.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Thievery the ship.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

So I mean right?

SPEAKER_03 21:39

I mean No, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

I I'd I'm good for good on him for learning what he can to try and get his because it sounds like he you said he picked up family and friends and stuff and whatever.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

So Yep. So he became fill familiar with signal systems, checkpoints, schedules, routines, and Because of all this, he became indispensable.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

So although Confederate law prohibited enslaved black men from officially commanding vessels, reality did look a little bit different. Smalls possessed years of maritime experience, and many of the officers aboard the planter actually relied heavily on his expertise. Yeah, I'm new here, so like what do we do?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Are they from the UP all of a sudden? Yeah, they are, man. Those would be Union soldiers, though, eh?

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah, yeah. Maybe they had different values. Good stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Jesus Christ. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

So Smalls handed handled navigation duties, helped pilot the vessel, and knew the harbor as well as anyone on board.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

So the Confederacy depended on the labor and knowledge of a man it refused to recognize it as free.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, which is just wild.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

As the months passed, um, Smalls became increasingly aware of how vulnerable the system around him actually was.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

White officers often assumed enslaved workers were paying little attention. Conversations would happen openly.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Well, they they thought they were stupid. And it's like, no, they're still people just because you value them at what it was it, three fifths or whatever is what they got, or whatever the fuck that was. Yeah. Since even though you value them as less of a person in your eyes, that doesn't mean they're not a full fucking person, you idiot.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Jesus Christ. People were so stupid.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

They were. So procedures would become predictable and habits would start forming. And one of those habits was that the planters' white officers frequently left the vessel at night and slept ashore.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

The more you describe it, the more that's just seems fucking dumb.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Yeah. In the middle of a war. Well, yeah.

Building The Escape With Families

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah, it's like, yeah, it'll be good. It'll be fine. Nothing can happen to this. Yeah. Don't forget to grab the keys. I mean, it's like, what the fuck? You know, it's like.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

I think Robert Smalls is the key. Hey ooh! Hey. So military regulations generally required officers officers to remain with their ships, but enforcement was pretty non-consistent or inconsistent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charleston was considered secure territory, and many officers grew comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Well, it's within their within their south. Yeah. So I get why they would feel a little comfortable, complacent, whatever you want to call it, and be like, nothing's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

You know, it's our people.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Our people.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

So instead of remaining aboard, they returned to their homes, confident that everything would be waiting for them in the morning. Each time they walked down the gangplank, they left behind the ship largely um operated by men they considered incapable of controlling them. And of course, Smalls noticed because he noticed everything. The more he observed, the more he began to understand that understand that escape might be possible.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Not simply slipping away in the dark, as many freedom seekers had attempted, sure, but escaping in a way that offered a genuine chance of escape. So the challenge was enormous.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

You're actually on a ship. You're not just walking across the border and/or you know, running through woods trying to escape and so on. You're like, let's hightail it out of here on a vessel that can actually carry us and so on. So yeah, no, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

So Charles Harbor was surrounded by Confederate defenses. Ships entered and leaving had to pass armed forts. Patrols monitor the waterways, and any suspicious movement could result in cannon fire.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Even if someone somehow managed to steal a vessel, they would still need to give navigate miles of heavily guarded water before reaching the Union blockade waiting just offshore. Which is crazy. Like literally, they were you could probably up yep, those were those, those are the Union ships right there. You can literally see them.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah. I'm curious to see how you get past that with us with a Confederate ship.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Oh, yes, I understand. Yeah, I'll I'll it's part of my story.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah, I I hope so because you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yep. Um, so many people would have dismissed this idea entirely, but Marbot Smalls is not typical people. So he began discussing possibilities with several trusted crew members aboard the planter, and these conversations were remained absolutely secret. Sure. Um, one careless word could mean imprisonment or death.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

I'd say probably death, maybe imprisonment.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Yeah. So the men involved understood the risks, yet they also understood the alternative. Right. Remaining where they were meant remaining enslaved. So as plans slowly developed, another question emerged. Well, what about our families? I feel like I have a sneeze campaign.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Kazoon tight.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

You know how you kind of get a little like tickle.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Tickle.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Yeah, but it's like almost like painful. Yeah. Yeah, that's that just happened. And now my eyes are watering. But I managed to not sneeze. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

We could just say you're so like into this story that it's bringing it. My part rules. Are you a climped?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

So escaping alone would be dangerous enough. Bringing wives, children, and relatives aboard would make the operation far more complicated.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Children could cry, delays could occur, and every additional person increased the chances of discovery.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Yet leaving them behind is unthinkable.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Well, I mean, you would literally be leaving your family like peace, I'm out of here. I'm free. Right. Suckers. It's like you wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that to my family. It'd be like that'd be like me saying, Hey, Vesper, you're gonna be a slave. I'm gonna be free. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck. I wouldn't do that to her. Yeah. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

So Smalls' wife, Hannah, report like made her position rather clear. Freedom was worth pursuing, but if the plan failed, she preferred death to being separated from her family and returning to slavery.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, she had the right sense of family there.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

So similar feelings were shared by others connected to the crew, and the decision was made. If they were going to attempt the impossible, everyone was going. Yeah. So over the following weeks, details were refined. The crew would wait for the officers to leave the ship. They would depart before dawn, and family members would be picked up at predetermined locations along the waterfront. Smalls would wear the captain's uniform and imitate the cat the officers' uh posture and mannerisms when passing Confederate checkpoints.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I have a pretty good suspicion that the the captain was white.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

How do they manage that?

SPEAKER_03 29:02

I will tell you.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

So the plan depended on confidence, timing, and luck.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Most of all, it depended on Robert Small's knowing Charleston Harbor better than any of the men trying to stop him. Right. Excuse me. By May of 1862, everything was ready. The men had discussed the risks. The family had accepted the danger. The route was planned. Okay. Now that all now all that remained was finding the courage to carry it out.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Good story. Okay. Well, I wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

I thought you were gonna say more.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

No, I just I mean, I agreed. Yeah. Is what that was.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

So on the evening of May 12th, 1862, the planter sat in Charleston Harbor as it had many times before. The ship had spent the previous days transporting artilleries and supplies between Confederate positions, and there was nothing nothing unusual about its appearance.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

To anyone watching from shore, it was simply another vessel supporting the Confederate war effort. As darkness settled over the harbor, the white officers left the ship for the night, and just as Smalls had hoped, they followed the routine they established over months of service. Right. The captain, Charles Relier, and other officers returned to shore, leaving the vessel in the hands of the crew until morning. Once they were gone, there was no turning back. The men around the planter stood understood exactly what was at stake.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

If they hesitated, someone might be suspicious. If they acted too quickly, they might make a mistake. So every minute between the officers' departure and sunrise carried enormous risk. But the crew remained

Disguise, Signals, And Fort Sumter

SPEAKER_03 30:55

calm. They had spent weeks preparing for this moment. Sometime after three o'clock in the morning, the planter began moving. Before the ship left its position, Robert Smalls dressed himself in the captain's clothing. The disguise was simple but effective. From a distance, particularly in the darkness before dawn, Confederate guards were not likely to know the subtle differences.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

I mean, that's a pretty It's bold. I mean I wouldn't call it a subtle difference. It's bold, but it is dark. I mean, yeah. I guess.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

And these ships are are large, you know, so it's like it's just that's that's quite a gamble. He's not in a little rowboat right next to shore.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

No, I get that, but it's quite a gamble to like, hey, this is the captain. Sure it is. You know.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

So Smalls also wore the captain's distinctive straw hat because what captain of a vessel doesn't wear a straw hat?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Everyone.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

And it was one of the most recognizable features of this captain's appearance.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Well, yeah, you have to go go all out, otherwise, hey, why isn't that captain wearing his weird straw hat?

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Yeah, exactly. Smalls had also spent months observing Captain Relier's mannerisms. So he knew how the officer stood, he knew how he carried himself on deck, he understood that guards at the forts would not be conducting close inspections, and they expected to see a familiar silhouette, not a perfect facial match. Right. So the planters slowly pulled away from its southern wharf dock and entered the harbor. The first challenge came almost immediately. Confederate checkpoints monitor vessel traffic throughout Charleston Harbor. Yeah. Ships moving through the area were expected to use specific signals identifying themselves as friendly. Failure to provide the correct response could attract unwanted attention or even hostile fire. Yes. Fortunately, Smalls knew all the signals.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Sure did.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

As the vessel approached the first checkpoint, the required whistle blasts echoed across the dark water, and this response came back, cleared. Wow. So the ship continued forward. Okay. One checkpoint down, a couple more to go.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

As the planter moved through the harbor, the crew worked carefully to avoid drawing attention. Nobody celebrated, nobody relaxed. The most dangerous part of the mission still lay ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Oh, most definitely.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Meanwhile, another crucial step remained unfinished. The families weren't aboard yet. Excuse me. Before heading for freedom, the planter needed to make several stops along the waterfront. Waiting in secret were the wives, the children, and the relatives of the men risking everything to aboard the ship.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

They had no way of knowing whether the plan had already failed. They couldn't see what was happening throughout the harbor. All they knew is that if the ship appeared, they would have only moments to board.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

So the planter had to go up the harbor. So they started at the South Wharf wharf.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

They had to go to the north wharf.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Um to pick up the families. And then they had to like turn around and come back.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Yeah. So one by one, family members were brought aboard. Among them was Robert's wife, Hannah, along with their three young children. And remember, Smalls was only 23, so they were fairly young kids.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

I would imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

As the final passengers climbed onto the vessels, the stakes increased dramatically.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

So did they have like those people like get down in the cargo hold type of thing? Because I mean, fuck. Yeah. I wouldn't want them just you can't have them leisurely walking on the on the deck because like, are those children up there? Yeah, it's like, what is that? What's going on there? Let's let's investigate. So I would imagine, yeah, they're going into the cargo hold type type deal.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

So for the first time, freedom no longer felt like an abstract dream.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

There was one major obstacle left between the planter and open water. Okay. And that was Fort Sumter.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Even people who know little about the Civil War, I'm sure, recognize that name.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

It's it was the fort whose bombardment had started the conflict the previous year, and it remained one of the most heavily guarded positions in Charleston Harbor.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Any vessel attempting to leave the harbor had to pass within sights of its own if of its guns, right? So as Don Solely approached, the planter steamed towards the fort. This was the moment that everything could unravel.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

The guards at Fort Sumter knew Captain Relier. They knew the planter. They expected to see a Confederate vessel passing through. What they did not expect was that the man standing where the captain should have been was an enslaved crewman leading an escape.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

As the ship approached Fort Sumter, Smalls stepped into full view of the guards. Crew members later recalled that he pulled the brim of the captain's straw hat low over his face and positioned himself exactly where the real captain would normally stand. In the dim light before dawn, anyone watching from the fort would see what appeared to be a familiar, familiar Confederate officer commanding a familiar Confederate vessel.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

And what looked like a routine trip through the harbor. When the moment came, the require signaled echoed across the water. The sound carried through the darkness as everyone was waiting anxiously for the fort's response.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

For several long seconds, like how that would be just anxious driven, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

A little bit. Yeah. That would be like the most nerve-wracking time of this because you have to get past this. Yeah. And if the response isn't like immediate, you're like, oh fuck. Yes, exactly. Screw up or did something happen or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

But the answer did come.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Permission to proceed. The planter continued forward without interruption. No alarm bell sounded. No cannon was fired. No one questioned the vessel as it steamed past one of the most heavily defended Confederate positions in the South. Right. In an extraordinary twist of history, the defenders of Fort Sumter had just waved through a ship that was being stolen by the very people the Confederacy claimed as property.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

The harbor defenses gradually faded behind them, and for the first time, the crew could think about the next danger: the Union Navy. Yep. The irony was almost unbelievable. After spending hours trying not to be identified as enemies by Confederates, they now faced the possibility of being mistaken for enemies by the people they were trying to reach. Yeah. So Union warships maintained a blockade off the South Carolina coast. And from a distance, the planter still looked exactly like what it was a Confederate vessel. So as a ship moved towards the blockade, some aboard feared they had come all this way just to be sunk by friendly fire.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

So Smalls acted quickly. The Confederate flags were lowered. A white sheet was raised as a makeshift flag of surrender, and the vessel continued forward.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

I figured that was they're gonna do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Aboard the Union ships, sailors actually watched

White Flag To The Union Blockade

SPEAKER_03 38:15

this scene unfold.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Mm-hmm. Here was this Confederate transport approaching their position, flying a white flag and carrying a crew that desperately was trying to communicate something. Yep. But the ship was not attacking, it was defecting.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

So when the planter finally reached Union forces, disbelief quickly became celebration. Not only had Robert Smalls delivered an entire Confederate vessel, but he had also provided val valuable military intelligence about Charleston Harbor and Confederate defenses. And the Union had gained a ship.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

So most importantly, 16 enslaved men, women, and children had secured their freedom, and news of the escape spread rapidly across the North. So after they reached the blockade, they actually went south because the Union had um a fort in Carolina, South Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

So that's where they took him.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

So newspaper newspapers love the story because it seemed too remarkable to be true. As uh an enslaved man had stolen a Confederate ship, sailed it past its enemy forts, rescued families, and delivered both the vessel and secrets directly into Union hands.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Do you think the captain of the planter knew it was him who took it?

SPEAKER_03 39:40

I don't know. I didn't look into like what happened with the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Do you think he like came up to the dock? And he's just like, you're killing, you're killing me smalls. I mean you're killing me smalls.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Because like he's gonna come back in the well, you said they left just after three, so they only probably had a couple hours before daylight.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Um before, yeah, the sun started rising, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

In in May, early, or early to mid-May. So he's gonna be back to work essentially pretty soon, and he's gonna walk up and be like, Where's my boat? I thought I parked it here. It's like oh shit. And then the the then the revelation, if I mean, he's gotta know, right? Yeah that it was well, I guess he doesn't have to know, but it was smaller.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

He could be a dumbass, we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

You're killing me, Smalls.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

So this was not the end of Robert Smalls' story, though.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

The daring operation transformed him from an anonymous anonymous harbor worker into one of the most famous black Americans in the country. Political leaders wanted to meet him, military officials wanted information from him, journalists wanted wanted interviews. Sure. And for the first time in his life, Robert Smalls possessed something slavery had always tried to deny him the ability to determine his own future. Right, which is and of course he intended to use that.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Well, I'd hope so.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

When Robert Smalls stepped off the planter in May of 1862, he instantly became the most famous black man in America. His escape had been remarkable on its own, but what impressed Union officials just as much as the information, but what impressed Union fist f officials was the information that he brought with him.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Of course, because they're all well and glad that he escaped what he was a part of, but they're like, that's good. Give us some info here. Yeah. Because that's what we really want, because that's gonna help us win the war.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Yes. Military leaders quickly realized that he could provide valuable intelligence for future operations along the South Carolina coast.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

And word of the escape spread rapidly through the northern newspapers. Many readers could hardly believe the story. At a time when racist assumptions about black Americans remained widespread throughout the North and South, Smalls had demonstrated extraordinary courage, planning, and leadership. Pardon me.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Well.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

It's the bubbles.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

I know.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

His action directly challenged the arguments used by many people who insisted that black Americans were incapable of serving in positions of responsibility. Small understood that the escape had given him something powerful, a platform.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

So rather than simply enjoying his newfound freedom, he began using his story to advocate for broader change.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

One of the most important debates taking place during the war involved the role of black Americans and how they would play in the conflict.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Although thousands wanted to serve in the Union, many political and military leaders remained hesitant to arm black soldiers. Smalls became one of the several influential voices arguing that formerly enslaved men should be allowed to fight for their own freedom and the preservation of the Union. His experiences gave weight to those arguments. After all, this man is not speaking in theory. He lived it, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

No, he's not like, I heard once.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah, he risked his life for the union and he wasn't wearing a uniform.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

I don't think he risked his life for the union. I think he risked his life for himself. And his family, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

So I think there is a difference there.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

But especially because they wanted just information from him. They didn't really honestly care. They did,

From Stolen Ship To Union Captain

SPEAKER_00 43:55

but they didn't. You know, understand what I'm saying? They they wanted that information. He was important because of that.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

That's fair to some people. But he risked his life for himself, not for the Union.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Yeah. No, you're it's fair to say that. Yeah. So as the war continued, black regiments increasingly became part of the Union war effort. By the end of the conflict, nearly 180,000 black soldiers would serve in the United States colored troops, while thousands more served in the Navy. Following his escape, Union officials recognized both his skill and his value. He spent time providing intelligence on Confederate defenses around Charleston, but his maritime expertise remained his greatest asset. Sure. Before long, he was back on the water. And guess where he was put?

SPEAKER_00 44:44

In Fort Sumner? No, that's Southern Way.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

He went back on the planter.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Did he?

SPEAKER_03 44:49

He did.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

So he used the same ship that he stole?

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Mm-hmm. It's no longer a Confederate transport tip transport ship. So it had become part of the Union fleet. Right. And the man who had risked everything to seize it was now helping operate it on behalf of the United States. Sure. Smalls served as pilot and gradually took on greater responsibilities. Officers who'd worked with him quickly quickly recognized what Confederate officers had already learned years earlier. He knew Charleston Harbor exceptionally well and possessed the judgment needed to operate a vessel under difficult conditions.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Then in December of 1863, another opportunity arrived. While the planter was engaged near Confederate positions, its white captain became concerned about the danger and reportedly withdrew to a safer location on the vessel.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Oh. Coward? I don't know. I mean, kinda.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Smalls remained at his post and successfully navigated the ship through the situation. His performance reinforced what many people already knew.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

He was effectively doing the work of a captain regardless of his official title.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

So that it give him captain status finally?

SPEAKER_03 46:02

As a result, Smalls was eventually promoted and became captain of the planter.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Did they repaint it so it didn't look like a I didn't look that up? It's like, because what was the original captain's name? It was Relier. Relier. Do you think he's like just he's on a boat and he's like, it's my fucking ship? What the fuck? What the fuck? There it is. I knew I knew it didn't sink. I mean, could you imagine like that guy fucking seeing it and be like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03 46:39

I should have looked up what happened to Relier. I mean, if he was demoted or something.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

That'd be interesting because like I'll see if I can look it up after the story. Was was he, you know, like, dude, you fucked up. You weren't supposed to leave your ship, but here you're here, and now where's your ship?

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Yep. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

So as the war dragged on, Union forces gradually um gained control of more Confederate territory. Of course. The Confederates' resources shrank, its army suffered major defeats, and by the spring of 1865, the conflict that had torn the nation apart was finally drawing to a close. Yeah. For millions of formerly enslaved people, freedom represented both an ending and a beginning. The institution that had defined their lives was gone, but enormous questions remained. What would freedom look like? Who would have political power? How would Southern society rebuild after four years of war?

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

And these questions became deeply personal for Robert Smalls. After the war, he actually returned to South Carolina and quickly established himself as a businessman and community leader.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Unlike many formerly enslaved people who struggled simply to survive in the years after the emancipation, Smalls possessed a level of public recognition that allowed him to become involved in politics.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yeah. Oh, I I know who this is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Do you?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

I think so, yeah. I I I can picture I there's a picture of him.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

So the period known as as the Reconstruction was underway.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Federal officials were attempting to rebuild the South while determining how formerly enslaved people would fit into the nation's political system.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

For a brief period, opportunities opened that would seem unimaginable

Reconstruction Politics And Lasting Legacy

SPEAKER_03 48:26

if it was if it happened before the war.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

And Smalls seized them. He served in local government, participated in state politics, and eventually became a member of the South Carolina legislature.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

You're excused.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

These positions allowed him to advocate for public education, civic rights, and economic opportunities for black citizens. The man who had been born enslaved in South Carolina was now helping write laws in the very state that had once claimed ownership over him.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Reconstruction, though, was fiercely contested. White supremacist organizations used violence and intimidation to regain power. Political battles became increasingly bitter. Gains made by black Americans often faced determined oppositions from those who wanted to restore the old social order.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Well, I mean, you're back in the South. You're not just gonna change the mindset of everybody because they lost the war. Exactly. That's why the South was so hard on black people for the last 170 years, whatever. So, you know, there's people who were deeply ingrained in that mind thought, mind, mindset. Um, and unfortunately, there's some that weren't, of course, which is a good thing, but unfortunately, there's so many that were.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Yes. So through it all, Smalls remained active. In 1874, he was elected to the United States House of Representatives. Yeah. For many Americans, the image would have been difficult to comprehend only a decade earlier.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

A man who had once been sold and owned under the law of the United States was now helping govern the country from Washington, D.C. Smalls would serve multiple terms in Congress over the years, becoming one of the most prominent black political leaders in the late 19th century.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

His ad he he advocated for equal rights, educational opportunities, and fair treatment under the law, often speaking from personal experience rather than abstract theory. Yep. Yet perhaps the most remarkable chapter of his post-war life took place not in Washington, but back in Beaufort, which is where he was born.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

The house where Smalls had spent his childhood still stood. It was the home of the McKee family, um, the people who had enslaved him and his mother. And after the war, the property changed hands and eventually Smalls purchased it. According to several accounts, when the former mistress of the house fell into financial hardship, Smalls allowed her to remain there until her death.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

That was nice.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Whether listeners view that um decision as generosity or compassion or practicality or something else entirely, it still adds another layer to an already remarkable life.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Right. As the decades passed, Robert Smalls remained a respected figure in South Carolina. He witnessed dramatic changes in American society, some encouraging and others disappointing.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Many of the advances achieved during recog Reconstruction were gradually rolled back, and financial discrimination remained a defining feature of life in the South.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Even so, his accomplishes could not be erased. When Robert Smalls died in 1915 at the age of 75 of malaria and diabetes, he left behind a legacy unlike almost anyone else in American history.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yeah, I know for sure.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

That is the story of Robert Smalls.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

I'm pretty sure that I think um if I'm thinking well, I'll have to see the pictures you give me to put in here, but I'm pretty sure I know who this is now that I think of it. So he was the original Biggie Smalls.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Really? You don't know who Biggie Smalls is?

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

The rapper that got shot.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

I'm not a music person.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Alright, well, more education coming your way.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

Okay. Here's a quick AI overview of Captain Relier.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Um, Captain Charles C.J. Relier was the white Confederate commander of the steamer CSS Planter on May 13th, 1862, while he and his officers went ashore to spend the night with their families. His enslaved crew, led by Robert Smalls, hijacked the heavily armed ship, sailed past um Confederate checkpoints, and surrendered to the Union blockade. Because Captain Relier had violated standing orders and left the ship unintended with a vulnerable car cargo, he and his fellow officers were court-martialed by the Confederate military.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Stupid dumb idiot. Wow. Whoops. I I figured it wasn't gonna be good because you're you're in the middle of a war. Or the beginning of one, whatever you want to say, and you just let your ship get stolen. That's not gonna boat. Oh, all right, fine. Here's another ship. Carry on. Carry on. It's like, no, uh, you fucked up, dude. Whoops.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

And there is no like Hollywood feature film on Robert Smalls, but there's a couple like biopics that that are out there.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

So okay, fair enough. Yeah. Well, I mean, good on you, Mr. Smalls.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

Mr. Smalls.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

And uh I mean, that's pretty awesome that he was able to get his families, those, those, his crew's families out and shit, too, because like I said, I wouldn't want to leave them behind either.

Captain Relier Fallout And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 54:05

So exactly. And then he went on for a wow inhaled probably a cat hair. Um, he went on to have a prominent political career after the war.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

He made waves.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Well, I suppose. Alright, buffoons, that's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

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SPEAKER_03 54:54

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SPEAKER_00 54:59

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SPEAKER_03 55:02

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.