All The Kate's: Victorian Strongwomen

Sam Neill Tribute And Banter

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hey there.

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How do you expect me to edit this shit out? Oh, hey there. Jesus Christ. We're the history buffoons.

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I'm Kate.

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And I am Bradley.

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I was like, and I regret my decision.

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No, I have no regrets.

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Um, yeah, so how are you doing? Fucking hot. Yeah, you you say that.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

I'm sad.

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Why?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Sam Neal passed away this week.

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Oh my gosh, Sam Neil.

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I love Sam Neil. He was just a good good actor, good dude. I mean, fucking Dr. Alan Grant.

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A national treasure.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Not even from here, but he's still a national treasure. Where's he from? I believe Ireland. Oh, shitballs. Really? Um I I believe so. And he passed away in New Zealand. Or he lived in New Zealand, but I want to say he was born in Ireland, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I don't think I've ever watched like uh um an interview with him or anything. I just love his movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

I've seen plenty of interviews with him.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Is he Irish? Like, does he speak in an accent?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

No, I I think I could be getting this wrong because I'm a buffoon, hence you listening to the history of the buffoon, yes, which also encompasses you.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah, sucker.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Anyways, um I'm pretty sure I heard that he was from Ireland. Yeah, I don't know exactly where, and then it sounded like he might have moved to New Zealand, maybe. I don't know. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

He's somebody's national. He's I mean, I'll claim them. I will claim them absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

There's so there was this TV show, it was in the 90s. I remember I still have the VHS of it somewhere. It was it was called Merlin, and he for sure he played Merlin, yeah. And there's a line in there, and I'm I'll butcher it because I've been it's been years since I've watched this, but it's something about some so they showed him as old Merlin, and then they showed him younger with you know uh King Arthur and all that stuff and whatever. But um something along the lines, someone asked him about magic. He's like something along the lines of people stop believing in it, that's why it's not around anymore, kind of shit. Yeah, I don't know, it just always stuck with me for some reason. Yeah, oh yeah, he was so good. I I mean, obviously became very well known because of I always forget that he's in the Hunt for Red October.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yeah, I yeah, that's a great one too. Well, how about we cheers to um Neil Grant? Uh just gonna say Neil Grant. I was saying Sam Neil.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

What is happening right now? Sam Neil. Cheers with our Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, the everybody's national treasure, and it also says national parks in here, so what the fuck? We're just rolling here.

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Yeah, man.

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All right.

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So today

Listener Request And Three Legends

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we um we actually got a uh a request, a topic request from um someone named Kate.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Hello, Kate.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Um, so Kate, thanks for listening and for suggesting this topic.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um, it is about a strong woman. Um, but there wasn't a whole lot of reports or information on this person. So I actually came, I actually found a few different strong women. So we're gonna talk about three today.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So like they lifted a lot of weights?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

You don't seem too positive on that, am I right? Oh, hi cats.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Is that Oliver?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I haven't I don't know, I don't see his little toe beans.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Oh no, that was Amos.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

He's right there.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Fuck, how is he in here? The fuck? We've been in here for like 45 minutes. He's like, it's almost it's almost four o'clock, therefore, I need to start asking for dinner.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Hi, buddy, come here.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And hold please. Come on, so I I guess I'll take this time while we get rid of Amos out of the room so we can record. Um anyone send us in your favorite Sam Neil movies.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I mean, why not?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Um so sorry for that. I he's so quiet until he's not.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Well, and he'll let you know. I mean, I've I've gotten up here around feeding times before. Oh, like you said, a couple hours before feeding time.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

And he'll let you know that it's yeah, hey, it's it's time, it's time o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So it's time o'clock, even though it's not time, it's getting close within the next 12 hours. I need to eat.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

So so Kate, thank you so much for um taking the time to send us a yeah, thank you.

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Appreciate that, Kate.

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And uh, Bradley, I will warn you that between me being Kate, her being Kate, and two out of the three women being a form of Kate, my apologies. Wasn't intentional.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

So much Kate.

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There's also one other little Easter egg that wasn't intentional, and I'll point it out one again.

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There's so much Kate in the world.

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So imagine opening a newspaper at the turn of the 20th century and reading a headline about a woman defeating one of the most famous strong men in the world, not in a contest of popularity or a battle of wits, but in a competition that revolved entirely around physical strength. To many readers of the time, that idea sounded absurd. This was an era where society had very firm opinions about what women should be. Women should be.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I say what woman should be. What the fuck English is that?

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Engrish. Women were expected to be graceful, refined, and modest.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Could you imagine you being alive at that time? Fuck off.

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Strength was considered masculine, athletic competition was considered masculine, public displays displays of power were considered masculine, and the prevailing belief was that women simply weren't built for that sort of thing. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I mean times were different.

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Absolutely.

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That's fine.

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And audiences across Europe and North America were paying money to watch women prove otherwise. Okay. So one of these women was Katie Sandwina, a performer.

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Sanwina. Sandwina. Sandwina, okay.

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She was a performer so strong that she built an international reputation by lifting weights that many men couldn't budge. This next woman is what our listener Kate recommended. Her name is Charmion.

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Charmion.

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And her, this is the Easter egg. Her birthday is today.

unknown 7:18

Oh.

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July 17th, 1875.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So the day we're recording, that's kind of fucking funny. Yeah, completely unplanned. What a coinky dance.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah. So Charmion was a trapeze artist whose performances caused a stir because they challenged ideas about how women should dress, move, and behave in public.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

So she wore pants?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

No. The third woman was a Welsh strong woman known as Vulcana.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Vulcana.

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Her real name was Kate as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

So how did she get that nickname? She thought it was sounded fierce. Oh, so she came up with it. This is my stage name, friend. For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

So Vulcana, um, she had feats of strength and wrestling exhibitions and did she have hands of strength too? Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

All right.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feet and hands. And she had an unconventional personal life, which made her one of the more fascinating performers of her generation.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

What was unc unconventional about it? Oh, I will tell you. Fuck them better.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Huh. So today, most people have never heard of them. I myself have never heard of them.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I have not.

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Yes. During their lifetimes, however, they were considered celebrities.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Oh, I have no doubt. Especially like with how I mean, obviously, we're talking about early 1900s, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

You said yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Oh, so paper newspapers, um, shit like that. It's how you got your news. So I'm sure. What do we write about today,

Katie Sandwina And Circus Strength

SPEAKER_01 8:50

boss? Yeah. Write about volcano. You know, I mean, yeah.

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So newspapers covered their performances, crowds packed theaters to see them, and promoters proudly would advertise their names on posters throughout Europe and America.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

So, which Kate was a trapeze artist? Or wait, was that the one that was neither? Nope. Nope. Okay. So did she like do that in the circus?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I will tell you about each one of them. That's okay. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I'm getting ahead of it.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

That's okay. I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna break down each woman. Um, and they're all really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I thought you're supposed to build them up, not break them down.

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So each woman um found success in a different way, but all three shared something important in common.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

They refuse to accept I was gonna say they're all named Kate.

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They refuse to accept limitations that other people insisted should apply to them.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Well, I mean, that goes for anybody, even today. Yes. I mean, do what you find enjoyable and fucking break some barriers and glass ceiling, all that bullshit. Yeah, you know, whatever.

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So, Katie Sandwina, if you were going to design the perfect upbringing for a future strong woman, it would look like Katie's childhood.

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She lived on a farm.

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She was born um in Vienna in 1884.

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Austria, right? Austria.

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She entered a family where strength was already a profession.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Oh, so had family members doing similar shit already.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So her parents worked as circus performers.

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There you go.

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And physical feats were part of everyday life. Wait, so this is the trapeze artist? No. What the fuck? The Charmion.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Oh, that's Charmion.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

I'll I'll I'll I I'd like to say I'll get it eventually, but I won't. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

That's why we do this. I just did the introduction with all three, and then I'm breaking them down now. So while other children might have grown up around shopkeepers, farmers, factory workers. Katie spent her formative year surrounded by people who earned a living by demonstrating just how much weight a human could lift. The circus world was her classroom, her playground, and her eventual career. Sure. So as she grew older, it became increasingly clear that she inherited more than just her family's profession. She had inherited an extraordinary amount of natural strength. By adulthood, she stood more than six feet tall. Wow. And possessed a powerful bill that immediately drew attention wherever she went. I believe she was 6'1.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

That's pretty tall for a female in early 1900s. I mean, that's I mean, that's still pretty tall for a female today, honestly. There's obviously some that are, but especially in early 1900s, I feel like that's like holy crap. Yeah. You know, look at that chick. Yeah. Wow. Okay. 6'1. Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

In an era where women were often expected to appear small and delicate, Katie was neither, and she made very little effort to pretend otherwise. Good for her. Yes. So once audiences saw her perform, however, memorable quickly became unforgettable. So throughout Europe, strongmen acts had become enormously popular.

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Sure.

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Crowds loved watching performers bend metal, lift impossible looking weights, and demonstrate feats that seemed to challenge the limits of human capability. Most of those performers were men, and many audiences simply assumed that that was the way things that were supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Right.

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And Katie had other ideas. She said, fuck that shit. As she began appearing alongside her family and later as a performer in her own right, she developed a reputation for doing things that people didn't expect women to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Did she have a performative name too? Like, or did she just go by her own name?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

She does. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so she was actually born um Katie Brombach.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Brombach, okay. And she went by what?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Sanduina.

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Sandwina.

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Katie Sandwina. That's a weird I'll tell you. All right, fair enough. So audiences would often arrive out of curiosity, whether wondering whether the advertisements were exaggerating or not. Sure. And more often at that. Yeah, more often than not, they left convinced that they had just witnessed something genuinely remarkable.

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Right.

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So the more the moment that helped transform her from a talented performer into a legend involved a man named Eugen Sando. Eugene Sando. At this time, Sando was arguably the most famous strongman in the world.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Oh, okay.

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His name was synonymous with physical fitness, and his image appeared on posters and advertisements and promotional material throughout Europe.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I just picture like uh, because obviously it was probably hand-drawn poster, dude just holding up a dumbbell. Remember those old whatever?

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

For some reason he's got a mustache.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Always. I mean, it would be blasphemous if he didn't.

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So long before modern bodybuilding competition existed, Sando had become an international celebrity by convincing audiences that he represented the peak of human physical development. Sure. So that is why precisely stories involving Sando attracted so much attention. Yep. According to numerous accounts that circular circulated during this period, Katie participated in a lifting combination competition connected to Sando and performed so impressively that she emerged successful victoriously. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Sorry, it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Now I I want to reiterate that this story is actually unconfirmed.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yes. But the lore is out there. Historians still debate some of the finer details about circus performers. Um and they're not only they're not really known to be uh super strict with their accuracy, but the basic story lasted.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Well, they they've I mean like you you go to a circus and yeah, they bent a bar. That bar wasn't really a bar. Right. I mean it was for show. Right. So I get it. Yeah. All right, either way.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So whether whether every detail happened exactly like that, um, as later retellings described it, yeah, the public believed it. And once the public believed it, the story became part of her legend. And I have got to burp because I am a delicate woman.

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Delicate flower.

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So the victory reportedly earned her prize money, publicity, and her new stage named stage name. Rather than continuing to perform as Katie Brombeck, she adopted the name Sandwina, and it was supposed to be a clever name on Sando's name.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh, Sando Sandwina. I feel like she failed on the cleverness. But I mean, I'm also not from that time, so either way. I'm I'm hearing it secondhand, if you will. So, okay, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I'm not I'd Sando was spelled OW at the end. So Sandwina just took out the O and ended it. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

That's fine. You don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

I know I don't. That's the beauty of the fucking world we live in.

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So before long, um, she was becoming one of the b the best known strong women in the entertainment world, and her career was only beginning. Audiences kept buying tickets because she consistently delivered performances that seemed almost impossible.

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Right.

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Circus posters and newspaper advertisements often promised extraordinary things, and spectators had learned to approach many of those claims with like a healthy amount of skepticism. Like you walked in like a WWE match. You walked in knowing that it was going to be a show.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Do you ever find it funny that a simple space can be the difference between extraordinary and extraordinary?

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So promoters regularly stretched the truth, exaggerated accomplishments, and occasionally wandered into territory that could be described as creative fiction. Sure. Katie's audiences often arrived expecting some level of exaggeration, but then they saw her perform. One of the reasons Katie became so popular was that many of her feats were difficult to fake. A magician could rely on misdirection.

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Yep.

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An illusionist can hide mechanisms from the audience. A strong woman standing in the middle of a stage with hundreds of pounds of iron doesn't have many places to hide a trick.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

However, do they have the people confirm the weight?

SPEAKER_02 17:37

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Because like you can you can write a hundred pounds pounds on it, like you know, like you see, like again, like I've always just picture like the cartoon with the bar and then the two balls, and it says 100 LB, you know. It's like, oh I'm so sorry, but like that can be faked, it can be faked hollow inside or whatever. So I mean again, circus performer.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Well, some people believed in the in that she was being deceptive, and some people believed that she wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Well, and that's right, that's very rightly so, because in that world, uh, deception was for entertainment. Yes, and you have to fucking realize that. Anyone who went in and was like, that's fact truth, blah blah blah. Is it the just fucking enjoy the show?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

So as her reputation spread, Katie began touring with increasingly prominent circus companies and vaudeville productions. Okay, the late 19th and early 20th centuries uh representing something of a golden age for live entertainment before television, before radio became widespread, and long before internet existed, theaters and circuses provided many people's primary source of entertainment. Yeah, of course. When a remarkable performer arrived in town, it became an event, and people talked about the performance for days afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Well, typically, too, and I correct me if I'm wrong or if you don't even know, I'm I I might be wrong, but like they would like advertise for like weeks prior to name your event, show up because they want to draw a buzz between the the crowd or potential crowd, whatever, and give people a chance to fucking travel. Yes, travel wasn't as easy back then, so you you had to you know kind of get that buzz going early on. So yeah, they would create that and hopefully it pays off when they show up, kind of thing. Right. And that's also why a lot of places or not a lot of places, but a lot of people, depending on what their act was, would have several nights, or that's like that's why like one night only became like a kind of thing, because they would have several nights so they could maximize their time within this particular region, town, whatever you want to call it. So that's why if they would ever say one night only, it's like to draw urgency to make people fucking go, because you don't know if you're gonna see them again, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Exactly. Yeah. So Katie thrived in this type of environment. She also possessed something that many successful entertainment entertainers understand instinctively. Audience don't just remember what they see, they remember how it makes them feel. So watching Katie perform created a mixture of astonishment and confusion. The audiences found irresistible. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Well, yeah, it's a lot of things are about the feeling. Like when you go to a concert, and like, how does the music make you feel? Yeah. Go to a movie, how does that make you feel? So, yeah, that's a huge part of it for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

So many spectators had spent their entire lives hearing that women were physically weaker than men, that then they watched a woman accomplish things that many men could not, and the performance forced them to reconcile those two realities. Yeah, she embraced it immediately, and others did struggle with it. Sure. So one of Katie's most famous routines involved her husband, Max Heyman. Max was also a performer and appears he appears to have fully embraced the role in her act.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

So he was a supporting role to her. He was. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yes. Um, Max was shorter than Katie. Oh. Max was weaker than Katie.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Sounds like his name, he was poorly named.

unknown 21:37

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

But together they turned that into entertainment. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So photographs from the period have shown Katie carrying her husband as casually as she had just picked up a basket of laundry. That's so funny. Audiences loved it because the image completely reversed traditional expectations. The strong husband carrying the delicate wife has been a familiar image. Yep. And seeing the opposite was funny, surprising, and memorable. And it also generated publicity. Yeah. And in show business, publicity was nearly as valuable as talent.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Oh, 100%. Because it draws buzz, like word of mouth, all that stuff, whatever. So that, yeah. Oh, I totally get that. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

So the more famous Katie began became, the more people wanted to know about her life outside the ring. Reporters interviewed her, photographers documented her performances, fans collected postcards bearing her image. At a time when many women struggled to find public careers, Katie had managed to build an international reputation around abilities that society had often dismissed as unfeminine.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Did she ever travel to the States to perform?

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Um, I don't remember if it's this one or the last one I talk about. That's right. Yeah. So she was just curious. Yeah, so she was Austrian.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Um do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger is related to her?

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Probably. Okay, so she so she performed in Austria, Germany, other parts of Central Europe, and then the United States and Canada. Oh, she did. Okay. I did look this up and I kept it in on a separate page. That's fine. Okay. So the remarkable thing is that she never seemed particularly interested in defending herself against critics. Many pioneers spend enormous amounts of energy arguing with people who doubt them. They still do. And Katie online, Katie generally seemed content to let the weights do the talking.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

What I was gonna say, sorry to interrupt, was basically, yeah, you get all those people like what we like, even we're not a big podcast. We enjoy what we do, whatever. But like people leave comments. Think of big podcasts and all the comments they get. Yeah, the biggest thing is fuck off. Yeah. I good for you, glad you had your feeling. I'm not gonna read it. Yeah, and I'm gonna go live in my life. Yeah. You just can't let the there's

Charmion’s Trapeze Strip And Shock

SPEAKER_01 24:10

always gonna be haters. Yeah. So yeah. Either way.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

So if someone believed women couldn't be strong, she would simply lift something that could disprove the claim. Okay. And this approach proved effective for her. Sure. Yeah, as impressive as Katie's accomplishments were, she wasn't the only woman attracting attention by challenging expectations. While audiences packed theaters to watch Sanduina demonstrate feats of strength, another performer was drawing crowds for an entirely different reason. She wasn't lifting barbells or carrying men around a stage. She wasn't competing with strong men. Instead, she was climbing a rope towards the ceiling of a theater while an audience watched in fascination. Her name was Charmion.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

And that's the one that Kate suggested. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Thanks again.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

So, yes, thanks again. So, Charmion presents historians with um a very different challenge. Katie left behind countless photographs, newspaper articles, and publicity materials that documented her career. Charmion certainly achieved fame during her lifetime, but much of the woman behind the stage actually remains elusive. Basic deal details about her early life are difficult to pin down.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

So, more or less, she lived a quiet life outside of her performance. Yes. Okay, yes, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah. She was bump born um Laverie Cooper, and later. What's the first name? Laverie.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

That's an interesting name. It is. Never heard of that before.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Um, and she her married name ended up being Laverie Uh Valley, V-A-L-L-E-E.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Laverie Valley? That's just a lot of V's.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yep. And she emerged as one of the most recognizable aerial performers of her era. Interesting. Yes. So modern audiences are accustomed to seeing highly trained gymnasts, aerialists, and circus performers execute these routines. Yeah. Safety equipment, specialized training facilities, and modern engineering have dramatically reduced some of those risks.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

But at the turn of the century, those safeguards were a little limited.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Well, I mean, they basically put a net underneath, and then they'd be like, well, watch us do this without a net.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

It's like, fuck that. I need the net. Gravity and give me two nets.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Gravity was just as unforgiving then as it was, as it is today.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

There's two constants in life, taxes and gravity. They're both gonna fuck you. I'm not wrong. Taxes, take my money. Gravity, fuck, I fell again. You know?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Fuck, you took my balance. Shit.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Gravity is, I mean, that's why you shrink.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

It's not because I mean it's degenerative discs and shit like that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

But it's because your body's being pulled down, more or less. Your your discs give out. I used to be seven two. Now I'm just six-three.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

So success required tremendous athletic ability, upper body strength, coordination, and courage, and Charmion possessed all four.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Congrats, Charmion.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

She built her reputation during the height of vaudeville.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Um, vaudeville shows offered audiences a little bit of everything. Um, singers, dancers, comedians, musicians, jugglers, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

When you say musician again, musicians, jugglers. Because it sounded like you said musicians. So it's like musical magicians.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

And the competition for for success was pretty, you know, pretty fierce. Every performer wanted an act that audiences would remember.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

You don't go, especially back then, you didn't go into it for pure love sometimes. A lot of people went into it for recognition and fame. Yeah. I mean, it's people still fucking do that. Yeah. I mean, it's countless fucking people do that. It's I'm gonna stop now.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

So when Charmion first stepped onto the stage, there was nothing particularly shocking about her appearance. She looked exactly the way the audience expected a respectable woman to look. She wore fashionable clothing that reflected the styles of the era. So the the layers, the skirts, the fitted garments, the Victorian style.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Did she have like the metal thing underneath her dress?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Um, I don't remember. I don't think she had that, but she had everything else. And she began climbing in all of that.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Could you imagine? I mean, I know I'm warm all the time, so let's try and take that out of it. I couldn't even I have shorts on. I couldn't imagine doing that. Yeah. And all those garments. I mean, whoa, that just sounds and I'm obviously thinking of the heat right now. That sounds fucking terrible. Could you imagine because she's doing shit? You're gonna get warm.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Fuck that. So this clothing was looked perfectly acceptable on stage, but in practical, the higher she went, right? Every movement highlighted just how difficult it would have been to perform aerial maneuvers while wrapped in layers of fabric, right? Yeah, the transformation though started unfolding.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

As she climbed, she would remove one layer at a time as she's climbing. So a piece would fall, a piece would fall here, a garment here, garment there.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

And what would she end up in then? Like what would she have?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah. So underneath it all, once she got to the trapeze, she revealed a fitted athletic costume underneath that allowed her to perform safely.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Is it more or less like what a wrestler would wear?

SPEAKER_02 30:08

No, more of like a leotard, something like I'm I'm not thinking of like WWE.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

I'm thinking of like an actual wrestler, like in high school or college.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

No, this would look more like a um like a gymnast at the Olympics.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Oh, okay. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Maybe not quite so skin tight, but it would be a leotard like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Of the time. But yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So for some audience members, this was a very scandalous moment. Oh, clutch my pearls. Clutch my pearls. For others, it was fascinating. Either way, it got their attention.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Well, it's it's gonna be a talking point, we'll just say it is. I mean, because it's like, did you see what Charmion wore?

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yes. So then she would swing, she balanced, she climbed, she maneuvered through the air with confidence. The routine required strength, flexibility, and body control that very few people possessed.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Modern viewers would watch uh surviving footage and they're struck by that same realization. The costume change may have sold tickets, but the athletic ability justified the tickets.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Surviving footage. So there's actually footage of her? There is. No shit, really? Yeah. Oh, so cool. Did you find any?

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

All right, I'm gonna watch that when we're done. That sounds cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

In 1901, Charmion became one of the earliest performers captured on film.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

If you recall one of Thomas Edison's earlier moving pictures with Annie Oakley, yeah, remember that? Yep, yep, yep. That was done in 1894. Which is wild. So he too did this one.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Ah, that's fucking crazy. That's so crazy. And there was no sound, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

No. But can you think about like all the performers that nobody knows because their work wasn't recorded?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Oh, yeah. I mean, what a wild time we live in because holy fuck, everything's recorded now. People try to get gotcha moments and they're they're just walking around with their fucking phones recording. It's like, go fuck yourself. Go read a book. They don't know what those are unless it's on their phone. I mean, you doom scrolls the fucking I wish I didn't, but I do. But you do. It's just like everyone's attached to their fucking phone. And yeah, I do enough, but I, you know, I'm I'm listening to music, podcasts, whatever. But I don't know. I missed the 90s before these got too big. Anyway, I'll I'll kick it off my soapbox.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

So I forgot where I was.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah, you did. You're at we're at your house.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah, we are. So fame has a way of creating competition. The more successful a performer became, of course, the more others tried to replicate that success. Throughout vaudeville, the circus culture, audiences were constantly searching for the next sensation. New acts would emerge every year. Yep. Some disappeared, others would build blasting careers. Sure. And Charmian's success helped create opportunities for other female performers who wanted to demonstrate their athletic ability on stage. Okay. As audience became um accustomed to seeing women in physically demanding roles, the novelty slowly did begin to fade.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

I'm sure because the more you see of a particular thing, the the more normal it gets. So the the less holy shit, did you see that?

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Happens. And yeah, so it's it's gonna disappear. I don't want to say disappear, that's not right. It's gonna, it's not gonna be as oh my god. So people are just

Early Film Fame And Changing Tastes

SPEAKER_01 34:10

like, Yeah, that happened again.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Whatever. Yeah. So they just don't care as much.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

But that's it's clearly gonna happen when it becomes more normal.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah. So so this was like both a blessing and a curse. Like it meant opportunities were expanding, but it also meant performers had to work harder than ever to stand out.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

They had to like one up each other.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

So meanwhile, hundreds of miles away in Wales, Wales, another woman was finding her own way to attract attention. I live just south of Wales. Unlike Charmian in Wisconsin, she wasn't soaring through the air. Oh, unlike Sandwina, she wasn't becoming famous through American circuses.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

She was digging through the ground.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Her path involved broken chains, bent iron balls, wrestling exhibitions. Bent iron balls? Bent iron bars. Not balls.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

You said balls.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

I said balls, I sure did. Bars.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Because I'm like, how do you bend iron balls?

SPEAKER_02 35:12

And she had a personal life that baffled many of her Victorian contemporaries, and her stage name was Vulcana.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Oh, this is Volcana, yeah. This is Vulcana. Because it's volcanic. She erupts.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

If Katie Sandwina represented celebrity and Charmina represented Spectacle, Volcana represented defiance. She simply lived her life according to her own rules. Good for her. And seemed remarkably uninterested in whether anyone approved.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Alright, so I have to give props to Volcana here.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Because everyone should live their life to their own fucking rules. And I don't know, maybe not worry about the next fucking person. Yes, you have people in your close-knit family or whatever it might be. Worry about them a bit, of course. But fuck off otherwise. So guess what her name is? Volcana.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Her real name?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Katie. Kate.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Kate Roberts in Wales. Yeah. In 1874. All the Cates.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

She was born in 1874, or this is she was born in 1874.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Okay. So Volcana grew up.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

She's 105 years older than me. Fuck.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Volcana grew up in a world that looked very different from the theaters and vaudeville stages that Charmian had found success. Wales at the end of the 19th century was heavily shaped by industry.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Coal mining communities dominated many regions, and life could be physically demanding even for people who never stepped into a circus ring.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Like many strong women of the era, stories about Volcana's early years blur between fact and legend. Sure. Newspaper reporters loved colorful details and performance were often all too happy to encourage a good story if it would sell tickets.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah. So over time, some of the stories are difficult to verify. What is it in doubt is that Kate Roberts um possessed unusual strength and eventually transformed that strength into a career. At some point, she adopted the stage name Vulcana, which wanted she wanted to make a statement. It was derived from the word Volc from Vulcan, the Roman god associated with fire and metal workings, and it sounded powerful and dramatic for her. I thought it was from Spock.

unknown 37:33

Spock.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

A performer named Kate Roberts would probably be forgotten, but Vulcana was a little bit harder to ignore.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

It's it's it's memorable.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

And it's not that her name isn't memorable, it just it blends in with everybody else. Or Volcana, how many people are you gonna be like, Volcano? Oh, that I know 12 of them. Yeah, no, yeah, you don't know fucking any of them. There's one.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

So, like Sanduina, um, Volcana built her reputation through feats of strength. She bent iron bars, broke chains, lifted heavy weights, and participated in wrestling exhibitions.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Are you sure she didn't bend iron balls? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Newspaper advertisements frequently described her as one of the strongest women in the world. A claim that promoters made about several performers during the area, although in Volcana's case, there was enough as evidence to suggest she genuinely belonged in that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

What made her particularly fascinating was the variety of skills she brought to the stage. Which were strong man and strong woman acts, occupied an interesting space in popular entertainment.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Audiences wanted proof that performers possessed extraordinary strength, but they also wanted to be entertained. Of course. Volcana understood that balance. Breaking chains looked dramatic, bending iron bars looked dramatic, wrestling looked dramatic, and the stronger she appeared, the larger the crowds became.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Is this the one that beat the dude?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

No, that was Sandwina.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Because she took his name afterwards as a slight.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Oh, I guess I didn't put that together on how you word it, word it, or I just missed it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

So that was one with the disclaimer that we weren't sure that story actually happened. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

No, that's okay. My bad. So by the late 19th century, Volcano was touring extensively throughout Britain and earning a reputation as the country's premier strongwoman.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

By her strength, but her strength was only part of the reason historians still talk about her today. The other part of the story involved a woman named Maria Roberts.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Maria originally worked as part of Volcana's act.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Roberts, are they related?

SPEAKER_02 39:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Audiences Roberts, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Let me get there.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Okay. I'm learning.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Audiences often saw them perform together, and over time the two women became inseparable.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

They toured together, they worked together, and they shared a home together.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

So they were together.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

They were together.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Which and obviously early 1900s was taboo.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

So it raised eyebrows because of the time. The exact nature of the relationship has been discussed by historians for many years. Sure. As often the case with historical figures, there are limits to what can be known with complete certainty. Yep. People in the 19th century did not always describe relationships using the language that we use today, and many personal details were intentionally kept private.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

So what is clear totally fine.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

What is clear is that Volcana and Maria

Vulcana’s Defiance And Private Life

SPEAKER_02 40:50

spent decades together and built a life that differed significantly than what society expected.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Good for them.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

In an era when women were genuinely expected to marry a man and follow a fairly predictable path through life, the two women chartered their own course. They weren't hiding in obscurity. They were performers who knew who they were.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

So while Katie Sandwina challenged assumptions through physical strength and Charmion challenged them through athletic performance, Vulcana challenged them by simply existing on her own terms. And the fact that doing so challenged social expectation says more about the era than it does about her. As the years passed, Vulcana remained a respected figure within Britain's entertainment world.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Like Sandwina and Charmion, however, she eventually encountered the same problem that faced almost every performer of the time. Time moves on. Well, audiences change, new attractions emerge, and the next generation arrives.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

No, and that's totally in the entertainment world, it's hard to, even in this day and age, it's hard to, with a band, an actor or whatever it might be, to stand the test of time. Stay relevant. Stay relevant is a good way to put it. And basically, my fucking ears are warm. Sorry. But things change, things develop. New thing, specialty, whatever it might be. Because I've seen that.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

So it's like she broke a chain today, she bent a steel ball or whatever you called it. Bar um tomorrow. Is she gonna do that again the next time? Like what else we got?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Especially in this day and age. Like we brought up phones and stuff. Fucking retention and and just keeping your so we we do our our normal podcast episodes are about an hour, roughly. I don't think anyone listens in the end. I hope they do. I enjoy that if they do. But the attention span is so fucking short these days. But even back then, when you didn't have this medium, it's like, well, what's next? So they don't care. So yeah, so you you become irrelevant, and some people embrace it, change, do whatever, and some falter because they try to do too much. And it's sad. But, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

So by the early decades of the 20th century, Sanduina, Charmion, and Vulcanna had each built careers that would seem highly unlikely when they were born.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

If you had asked most people at the time which figures would be remembered a hundred years later, these people probably would not make the list. And yet in their own way, each of them helped expose the gap between what soci society claimed women. Could do and what women were actually capable of doing. Right. The interesting part is that they arrived at the same destination from completely different directions. And all three found success because they were willing to do things that other people considered inappropriate. All three built careers in professions dominated by men. All three endured criticism from people who believed women should stay within narrowly defined roles. And all three ignored that criticism long enough to become famous.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

So they basically shrugged off the bitch get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich? Yes. Good for them.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

So for all three women, the later years of their lives unfolded as the entertainment landscape changed around them. Yep. Vaudeville declined, circuses evolved. Yep. And motion pictures grew from a novelty into a global industry.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah, it sure fucking did.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Katie Sanduina spent her later years in the United States, where she remained a respected figure amongst strength enthusiasts and former perform uh performers. She lived long enough to see a world that had that would have been difficult to imagine during her childhood.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

How long how long did when did she pass away? Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 45:20

I think I have that information.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

She so um Katie Swint Sandwina was 60 76 or 70. No, Jesus Christ, dyslexia. She was 67 or 68 when she died in 1952.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Yeah, she was the youngest of the three that died.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Um Strarmion gradually faded from the public view, leaving beef behind far fewer records than historians have found.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Um, thanks to early motion technology motion picture technology, though, her act survived. Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

That's just me, you think about like the Annie Oakley one and this. It's like it's so early on in that technology that they exist. It's like that's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

More than a hundred years after audiences first watched her climb towards the trapeze, people can still see her perform. Volcana spent decades with uh Maria Roberts, and the two women remained closely connected for the rest of their lives. Sure. Long after the crowds had moved on and the posters had come down, they continued the life that they had built together.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Good for them.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

And that is the story of Kate, Katie, and Charmion.

Legacies Plus Support And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Charmion.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Lavery.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah, that's so wild. Well, I mean, good for them to break the chains. Literally bend the balls. The bars. You said balls. I was confused. More than normal. Yes. How are your beers? You know, Sarah Nevada knows what the fuck they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Good.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

How did you enjoy it? Because you you're not a huge pale ale fan, but this is more along, I think, the lines of a pale ale that you would enjoy. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

I know you wouldn't go out of your way to drink this on a regular basis, but you enjoyed it though.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Good.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Um so happy birthday to Charmion. Charmion. And thank you again to our listener, Keith, for the recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Thank you very much for that. Um Sam Neil, R.I.P.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

R.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

You are I'm claiming you as a national treasure of these United States. Because, well, fuck. He was amazing. He was amazing. Um if anyone made it to this far, if you feel like supporting our show, there is a link on our website. We would greatly appreciate it. It helps us to keep doing what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Like, comment, email.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

We love comments. I read them all. I usually am the one who gets to them first. Um, I like to respond because I like to interact with our our listeners. Um, so we appreciate any and all comments that come through, good or bad. I'll respond to them all. Doesn't matter. And I'll be honest, 99% of them are good. Um but we appreciate anyone listening to our podcast. We do this because we enjoy it, we enjoy history. This is fun for me because I get to learn something, and this is not as fun for Kay because she has to do the research. But I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Um I do I do enjoy learning it because of course you do. Yeah, I mean, even though my memory is not great, I remember bits and pieces about all of our stories, and I think that's what's important for me is is just to like, okay, I remember this situation. I may not know the details, but right.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

And that's why we record it so Kate can listen back later.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Yep. Well, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Hit us up on social media where History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at history buffoonspodcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Follow us wherever you get your podcast and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.