KGB 007: Bohdan Stashynsky

Basement Floods And Quick Catch-Up

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

How's it going today, Kate?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Good. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:09

I'm well. I'm Bradley. I'm Kate, and this is History Buffoons. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

How are you today? I think I just asked you that.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

I'm doing pretty good. End of the long week.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

It was. We get a holiday weekend.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Coming up, yep. Which is Labor Day.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Woke up to water in my basement.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Yeah, so tell me what you mentioned that. Tell me more about that. So obviously it was storming, you said.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

So Nathan, so we've had problems with our basement.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Is it that one room in particular?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

We've got this weird wine cellar closet. Closet, dungeon. We don't know. Dungeon. We don't know what it is. Um, but it leaked since the day we bought the house.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

And uh Nathan has done all kinds of MacGyver rigging to try to get it fixed, you know. Does the best he can with what he knows and the research he's done and everything. Sure. Well, we've had plenty of problems with water in our basement. And he bought these little like alert things that when it when it touches water, it actually alarms.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

I remember I was up there and he was telling me about it once. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

So it actually did its job today. Thank goodness. I know. It was kind of cool. It was just like a maybe like a second or two second long chirp kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Um, not like a fire alarm.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

So it's a chirp, but so were you like, did crickets get in here?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

No, it was it was very clear um what it was. And I was I wear earplugs at night, so I didn't hear it. But I went to go feed the kittens. And you're like, what was that? I was like, oh shit. And I was like, sure enough, it's storming outside.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Did you know instantly once you heard it? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

So that's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

We have one half that's finished and one half of the basement that's unfinished, and it and the wine cellar thing is in the finished portion. Yep. Water goes all the way through to the unfinished side.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Does the I guess I've I mean I've been in your basement. Does the uh unfinished side, is that the only side with the drain? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh and it does have a nice little trail all the way to the drain. Of course, it expands in areas and narrows in areas and oh yeah, it's super great.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Fun side note if you go to our website, historybuffoons.com, and you go to the about us page, the picture that's on there of you and I is in your basement.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

It is without water, without water on the uh the finished side.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yeah, yeah.

Postpartum Psychosis And Online Blame

SPEAKER_03 2:40

So uh with that being said, uh please please go visit our websites, like, share, subscribe, all that good stuff. Um, we're on all the different things YouTube, Apple, Spotify, all that good stuff. We appreciate uh each and every one of you who does take your time to listen to us. So um, I have a question before we even get into what you're teaching me today, yeah, what we're drinking today. Have you been following because you like true crime slash crime stuff, have you been following that Lindsay Clancy thing?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

No.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Do you know about it? No, I didn't know anything about this. She she murdered her three kids three years ago, and she confessed to it, but there's apparently this big movement about postpartum?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, okay, I didn't know the name, I know the story.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah, yes, and yeah, she was going through postpartum depression, psychosis, not just psychosis. She said that there was a voice that told her to kill her kids and then kill herself, and she's admitted to killing them. But why in this world would so many women be on social media being like, her husband did it? I just don't understand that. Do you when there's clear evidence and a confession that she did it?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Um, I so I've heard a lot of support of her because of the postpartum psychosis. I've also heard a lot of people blame the husband.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Thinking um that uh one, he wasn't doing enough for her, but two, um, that maybe he took advantage of her situation. I don't believe that. I don't know. I think it was all the mom.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

It was her.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

And um, yes, I've never experienced postpartum, but the people who have are very, very sympathetic of the situation. Apparently, it's really awful when it happens.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Totally understand that.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

But whether you were in right of mind, postpartum, postpartum psychosis, whatever, you killed your kid.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Right, right. And and um, she also tried to self-exit and failed.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

And she cut her wrists, her, her, her throat, and jumped out of the window and is now paralyzed from the waist down because of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

So not an innocent person doesn't do that. I've even heard ridiculous enough stuff that's saying that she was pushed out by her husband.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

I've heard that too.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

That's fucking insane.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, yeah. I don't believe any of those. Um yeah, why did you bring that up?

SPEAKER_03 5:18

I just I saw something on it earlier. I know you like your crime slash whatever um white women murder stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I just couldn't remember what her name was.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

No, that's fine. Yeah, I had I don't remember this from three years ago when this happened. I only really recently learned about it in the probably the last two or so weeks, roughly. And I was just curious what your take on it was because of your like for you know, criminal minds and true mind true crime stuff and whatever you what all that stuff that you like to watch. So right. Um, I was just curious on what your thoughts were. She did it. Oh, she should go to prison.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

And I don't care if people disagree with me. She killed her kids. And being a father myself, I could not even imagine what her husband went through.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

You know, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

So I no, I completely agree with you. Um, I don't understand some of the the people out there who nah it's it was Lim. Like, what? Okay, whatever. It doesn't matter. But um I would I would love to do a true crime podcast, but there are so many good ones out there. You don't want to step into those here. I don't want to be a bad one. You know, I don't want to be No, I totally get that.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Yeah, like um no, like there's yeah, yeah. But um there's one other thing I was gonna say to it, but uh I either way, it's just it's it's wild that people are like, oh, I know what I was gonna say. My concern is is if all these TikTokers and everything get the what they want, that would be very bad for you people in the future, in terms of blaming something like that, just to get out of literally murdering your kids or name your incident here. That I don't think that would be good for you guys. Meaning women.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

TikTok has ruined people.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Social media social media has ruined people has ruined people. It's I remember um way, way, way back in the early days of Facebook when you had to be in college to have a Facebook account. I went and I went to this high school with this girl named Mandy. I went she went to Milwaukee, I went and visited her. She's like, Oh, you want to see my Facebook? I'm like, what is that? I had no idea, obviously, because I wasn't in college like that. And she showed them like cool. Facebook and all social media is the downfall of our existence. It is, and it just it's getting worse with it it divides people more than it brings them together. Brings them together, and that's why when you say, I have 793 friends on Facebook. No, you don't. If you have that many friends on Facebook, why why why don't you go out in the real world and see them? Oh, because you don't. Yeah, whatever. I don't know. I was just curious about what your take on the whole Lindsey Clancy thing was because it's just wild that people are backing her saying she's innocent, or then just strictly blaming the man.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

And that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

No, I I agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

But anyways, so what are you gonna teach me today that's hopefully not as depressing as Lindsay Clancy killing your three kids?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Well, there is some killing in here. No, sweet. We're gonna

What We’re Drinking Today

SPEAKER_01 8:35

talk about um bowdoin Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

That is a mouthful.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Bowden Stashinsky. He was Russian? Pardon?

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Are you Russian?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

He is Ukrainian.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Oh, pretty close. I mean, Russia would say they're Russian.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

However, there's a whole bunch of political shit. But he is recruited by the KGB and turned into an assassin.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Nice. I like assassins, at least in movies. The Accountant's one of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

How about you tell us what we're drinking?

SPEAKER_03 9:08

We are drinking. We have so we stopped to get this at a local uh liquor store near my house because we're in the podloft today. Uh, but it's Blake's hard cider pomegranate fizz.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Can't really see it too well, like the background with the light or the let me also note this.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

We might be a little brighter today. We're trying out these little lights that we got. Yeah. Because in the podloft it can get kind of dark, especially this time of day, and it's it's kind of overcast and whatnot. So we'll see if we like it. Yeah. If we're bright next time, we did. If we're not, well, we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, and feel free to comment if you liked it or not, too. Like we're we're open to suggestions and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Always.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

My hand's cold and I want to start drinking.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Well, you can, I'm still talking.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

So we got this. Uh Kate came across this and it sounded great. Unfortunately, it was on the warm shelf, so we are drinking it over ice, which we've had um we've had a cider on ice before.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

So it's fizz is not the appropriate title of this of this uh drink.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Oh yeah, not at all. Nope. Do you do you think the ice is dumbing that down?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Perhaps. Maybe perhaps.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

I mean the flavor's not terrible. I don't think this is my favorite side. It's lackluster. It is. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, it's it's definitely lacking lust, so luster.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Not lust. Oh luster is like a the shiny.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

That's not how you turn it around? Oh shit. I fucked up again.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Okay, so

Meet Bohdan Stashynsky

SPEAKER_01 10:45

this is gonna be a two-parter.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yes, there's a lot to go through. And as I said, it's Ukrainian, Poland, um, the uh Soviet Union, and there's Germany going on. Is is this World War II? This is post. Oh. No. This is pre this is Cold War. My my apologies. So post-World War II. Technically. So you were right. Yes, but um the timing is a little bit more Cold War. Okay. Um, so that being said, my apologies for my pronunciations.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Well, you aren't Ukrainian, you aren't Russian, definitely not German. Nor German or Poland. Polish. A little Polish. Kidding.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Also, um small trigger warning of animal death. It is a very quick moment in my story on purpose. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

It's like the shot of deer or so Badan Steschinsky.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Badan?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

B-O-H-D-A-N.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

B-O-H-D-N Bowdoin? Bowden? I mean, that's what I would guess it as. I I'm not saying I'm right.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah. But Steschinsky was born on November 4th, 1931, in the village of Bor Shoshon Vichy.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

I believe you.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Which is not far from the city of Lavieu, which is what is now Western Ukraine. Okay. At the time of his birth, however, the region belonged to Poland. What did the region that he lived in belonged to Poland?

SPEAKER_03 12:25

My hearing sucks because I'm like, I thought you said Norwegian belonged to Poland. I'm like, what? That doesn't make any sense. The region. I gotcha. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, so depending on the language and the period of time we're talking about, yeah, the city of Lavieu can be spelled many different ways and pronounced many different ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

So Ukrainians, Poles, Jews, Austrians, Germans, and Russians had all played an important role in the region's history, while governments and borders repeatedly changed throughout the the lives of the people living there.

SPEAKER_06 12:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

I'm gonna give you just a quick rundown because it's it's like hot potato.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Before 1772, it was Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

1772, Austria takes it. Oh. 1918, Austria-Hungary collapse collapses. And then from 1918 to 1919, Poland wins control. In 1931, is when Stashinski was born.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

And then after this, Ukraine changes its hands three more times before becoming an independent country.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

So I guess is the Ukrainian war still going on? You don't hear anything about it these days. All you know is we gave him billions of dollars and I never seen any anything back from that, like a piece of cake or whatever, but why then, if all these different things, not Russia, like own this area, because it's Ukraine. Right, but like from what I understand, and I'm by no means an expert on the Ukrainian war or what Vladimir Putin wants and everything, but they always, from what I gathered, they always like, well, this is Russia. It's always been Russia. They they're not part, they're not independent. That's how I perceive them.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Ukraine?

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah. Um but it sounds like a lot of other people owned them before that.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

So the borders is that mainly what it is?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah. Oh, that's where I'm messing up. Okay, I gotcha. My bad.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

No, that's okay. Yeah, it's the borders that keep changing.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I see.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Not just this land of Ukraine goes here. It's just okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

I misunderstood. That's that's on me.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

No, that's

Ukraine’s Shifting Borders And WWII

SPEAKER_01 14:48

okay. So Bodin was only seven years old when Europe began tearing itself apart again. Yep. So on April, excuse me, September 1st of 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the West. Sure did. A little more than two weeks later, the Soviet Union invaded from the east under secret terms of the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact, which is the non-aggressant, excuse me, non-aggression agreement in which Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had quietly decided how they would divide portions of Eastern Europe between themselves.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

This meant the area allow around Lavieu, and I'm so sorry I've heard different pronunciations of that city.

SPEAKER_06 15:31

That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Um, it fell under Soviet control.

SPEAKER_06 15:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

So that lasted until June of 1941, when Hitler broke the agreement and invaded the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

German forces swept into western Ukraine, bringing another occupation and a new wave of violence, persecution, and mass murder. Then, as Germany began losing the war, the Red Army returned and established Soviet control.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

That's okay, that's where I'm messing this up. And what you said, I was not focusing on borders as much as okay. That makes that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Okay. So by the time that Bowden reached his early teens, um, the government ruling the place where he lived had changed repeatedly, and each change had arrived with soldiers and arrests and political regression, um, deportations or killings, right? Sure. At the center of much of this political turmoil was a question that had existed long before Bowden was was born. Should Ukraine exist as an independent country?

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Ukrainian nationalists believed that it should.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Well, of course they would. I mean, they're Ukrainian. You would kind of want the homeland to be free.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

The Soviet government believed Ukrainian belonged permanently within the Soviet Union, and Stalin's government had absolutely no interest in negotiating.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Of course not. Stalin be sympathetic. What the hell is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Pardon me.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

You're good.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

So the conflict was something Bodan's own family would become caught up in. Sure. To understand how that happened, we need a little background on Ukrainian nationalism.

SPEAKER_06 17:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

One of the most important groups was the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, usually known as the OUN. And I'll reference that a couple of times. Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.

SPEAKER_06 17:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

It was created in 1929. The organization sought an independent Ukrainian state and embraced a highly nationalist authoritarian authorit well authoritarian ideology. I just need to slow the F down. They believed.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

I feel like you need to slow more letters than just the F down.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

They believed their nation and its independence should come first, and they supported a strong, tightly controlled government rather than a democratic system with lots of political oppression. Okay. Political violence was part of its strategy, including assassinations of um perceived enemies. So the OU in itself eventually fractured because its members agreed that Ukraine should become independent, but increasingly disagreed about how to achieve it and who should lead the movement. So they're both like, yes, we agree. However, I want this to happen and I want this to happen. So they they fractured.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Yeah, if you can't agree on anything, you're not going to belong to this world because it's not going to go very far if you can't agree on it. No, not even close. So I mean, I can see why that would have happened for them, basically. That was pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

So in the 19 in 1940, yeah, it split into rival factions, one associated with Andrey Melnik, and another led by a younger and more radical nationalist named Stepan Bendera. And Stepan Bandera comes back into our story.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

The history of these Ukrainian nationalist movements during World War II is extremely complicated. Some Ukrainian nationalists initially saw Nazi Germany as a possible ally because Germany was fighting both Poland and the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_05 19:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Two powers that had controlled Ukrainian territory. Members of fac excuse me, members and factions of the nationalist movement collaborated with German authorities at various points, and anti-Semitism existed within elements of this movement. Oh, sure. Ukrainian nationalist formations were also responsible for horrific, horrific ethnic violence, particularly the mass killing of Polish civilians in Volinia and Eastern Galicia. Galizia? Neither of which are current um territories, but they used to be territories.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Oh, okay. And they were in the World War II time frame. Yes. Okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

At the same time, Nazi Germany had no intention of allowing Ukrainians to create the independent country they wanted.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Of course not.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

When Bandera's faction declared Ukrainian statehood in Levue in 1941 without German p permission, the Nazis arrested Bandera and other nationalist leaders.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Isn't it funny? It's like, do you think he just went up to like let's pretend the courthouse and like we're free?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Right. It's like declare it and it shall be true.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

You've you've never watched The Office, correct? You've seen Big Bang, but you you've seen clips and clips, like partial episodes, whatever. Yeah. There's one where uh what's uh Steve Krell's name? Michael Scott, right? I believe his name is in the show. Man, I haven't watched that in a little bit. He's like really bad with money, and so one of the other guys is talking him through it, and he's like, you might have to uh declare bankruptcy, and he just walks out in the office. I declare bankruptcy, and he's like, that's not high hands. Anyway, so that's just my picture is like this guy's one up to like we're free, right? Uh Germans say otherwise, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

But so Bandera eventually spent years imprisoned in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp. Oh shit. Before the Germans released him late in the war. Why did they release him late in the war? Um, did I look that up? Did I, did I, did I? Did I? Did I? Um did you? I feel like I might have, but I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

You might come across it later. I don't I don't think so. Oh, well, well, let's leave it open ended. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

So when Soviet forces returned to Western Ukraine, armed Ukrainian resistance continued. The Ukrainian insurgent army, usually called the UPA, UPA fought Soviet. Soviet security forces while Soviet authorities carried out an enormous campaign to eliminate the remaining nationalists underground. Okay. Villages became part of the conflict because the insurgents needed food, shelter, information, and local support.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

So was there still a pretty large underground movement then for the all this? I mean, uh, clearly there had to have been if they're like, we need to get rid of it. Yes. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Soviet security services needed exactly the opposite. Informants who could tell them where the insurgents were hiding and who was helping them.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

And Bodan Stashinsky grew up directly inside that world. Okay. The Steschinsky family's connection to Ukrainian nationalism went consider considerably further than simply agreeing with the cause.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Bodin's father and sisters had maintained contacts with the OUN Underground, and Soviet security had already arrested members of the family because of those connections. Oh wow. His sister Maria was particularly involved, and her fiance was himself a member of the Underground. For Bodan, this created a dangerous situation, even though he wasn't initially a major participant himself. Sure. The Soviet campaign against Ukrainian nationalism didn't require someone to carry a rifle through the forest before security officers became interested in. Family relationships mattered because those relationships could provide access to people who were considerably more important.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Right. Yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

In the late 1940s, Soviet authorities were gradually crushing organized resistance through military operations, arrests, I had a hitter in my mouth, um, deportations, executions, and infiltration. If they could persuade, threaten, or blackmail someone into becoming an informer, that person could lead them to people they otherwise wouldn't be able to reach.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Did you know there's a song called Informer by the guy called Snow? It was big in the 90s. No one could understand what the fuck he was saying.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Bodin was particularly useful because he could move naturally among people connected to the National Nationalist Underground without looking suspicious. At this point, however, Bodin wasn't planning a career in espionage.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

After finishing school, he began attending the Le Vue Pedagogical Um Pet Pedago Pedagogical Institute.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

What is that?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Pedagogy? Fancy. It's fancy.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

I don't I don't know if I've ever heard that before, to be honest. If I have, I don't recall it. I mean, you don't have to look at it. Pedagogy.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

I know, but I've heard I've heard it plenty of times.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I'm just not familiar with that term and what what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I knew it was I think I I think it was more theory-based, but uh pedagogy is the method, practice, and scientific study of teaching and how it shapes learning. That's I've heard it from Nathan a couple times.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Well, he he was a professor, so yeah. Huh. So it's basically like this is how you teach. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay.

OUN, UPA, And Underground Resistance

SPEAKER_01 25:36

So he went to this institute intending to become a teacher. Then in 1950, when he was 19 years old, Soviet state security took an interest in him.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

How how so?

SPEAKER_01 25:48

So while attending school in Levieu, Bodin regularly traveled by train between the city and his home village. And according to the account he later gave, he was caught one day riding without a valid ticket. Oh shit. That supposedly minor incident then became something a little bit more serious. Instead of simply receiving a fine, Bodin said Soviet officers became involved, questioned him about his family's connections to the Ukrainian nationalist underground, and used the threat of consequences against both him and his family to pressure him into becoming an informer.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

So I know you don't, you haven't, I should say you don't really watch the Indiana Jones movies a lot, like I have. But there's a line in the movie in Raider, or excuse me, Last Crusade. His dad and him are on this blimp. They're flying out of Nazi Germany, and then this one Nazi guy is onto them, finds them, Indiana Jones punches him out, throws him out a window, and he just turns to everybody that's still like all the other passengers, no ticket. So it just reminds me of that. And then in uh one of uh Kevin Smith's movies, um, I think it was Dogma, if I'm not mistaken, he also references that line on a train, so it's pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

No ticket.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

So Soviet records.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Soviet records, uncovered much later, suggested that wasn't exactly what happened. Oh. By early 1950s, Soviet security was already investigating nationalist activity in Bodin's um home village. Okay, and he himself had become already come to their attention. So their records accused him of um helping distribute anti-Soviet leaflets, collecting money for the underground, and having access to people connected with the OUN through his own family. So documents indicate that Soviet security had already decided they wanted to recruit Bodin before he was detained at the train station.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Do you think they already wanted to recruit or they already wanted to like investigate, more or less? Because, like, you know, this guy's doing the shit. Let's get him on our side. I mean, I that's not the first thing I would think of.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Well, they did recruit him and he agreed. Well, clearly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

I mean, I hope we learn out learn more as to why he agreed. Not really. Oh. Assassin.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

So that decision immediately placed him in an extremely dangerous position because the Soviets didn't want him to inform on strangers.

SPEAKER_05 28:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

His usefulness came specifically from his ability to reach people associated with the nationalist underground, including people connected to his own family. Right. Bodin was given a code name, Olech.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Olech. Does it have that?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And he was instructed to gather information. So one of the ways Soviet security used him was through his relationship with his sister, who could provide access to these underground pro contacts.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Well, because her fiance was part of it, correct? Fiance, I think you said right.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Bodin could um appear to be helping people whom Soviet authorities were hunting while quietly passing information back to his handlers. This meant that at 19 years old, he was already learning how to maintain two versions of himself. Around his family and nationalist contacts, he needed to remain the same Bodin they always knew. Around Soviet officers, he had to report conversations, movements, identities, and connections without giving anyone on the other side a reason to suspect him. If Soviet authorities stopped trusting him, he could face imprisonment or worse.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Death, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

If the underground discovered what he was doing, the consequences could be just as severe. There was another complication.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

The information he provided had real consequences.

SPEAKER_05 30:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Soviet security was using informants to locate members of an armed underground. It was actively destroying.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

People could be arrested or killed because of the information that received that um reached Soviet authorities. Sure. Whatever Bodin initially told himself about why he was cooperating, he was just becoming part of just that machinery.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Gotcha. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

And apparently Soviet officials thought that he was good at it.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Well, I mean, trying to impress your employers, I guess. Do you get a raise? I mean, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 30:39

He does get an award, actually.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

An award from the Soviets? Oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

So as the Nationalist Insurgency Weekend, they didn't thank Bodin for his insistence and send him back to teacher training. Instead, they decided that he was meant for something much larger. Killing people. They began turning him into an intelligence officer. Oh shit.

Recruited As An Informant

SPEAKER_01 31:01

In the early 1950s, Bodin received specialized intelligence training, including instruction in surveillance, secret communications, cover identities, and the practical skills needed to operate without drawing attention to himself.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

So he's like a KGB bond?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

He also studied languages.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

This mattered because Soviet intelligence was beginning to imagine a future for him outside of Ukraine.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

A young Ukrainian who could convincingly function as a German could travel into places where a recognizable Soviet officer would attract immediate attention.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Well, I mean, that's the whole point of being a spy. You gotta blend. Yep. You gotta like say he Bodin walked up here and we're like, hey, I'm part of the history buffoons. It's like, oh cool, man. You know, it's like we you have to make it seem like you you belong there. Yeah. Is more or less what it is.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

So Bodin was taught how to follow people without being noticed, how to detect whether someone was following him, how to remember details, and how to maintain an and um excuse me, how to maintain an invented identity consistently enough that casual acquaintances wouldn't immediately poke holes in it.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Right. No, that's that's a huge part of it because if your story is a little, as the kids say, sus, you you're gonna get thrown under the bus real quick, be like, no, you're not. No, I swears. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

The Soviets were taking the skills he had already developed as an informer and professionalizing them. The timing also coincided with a major major transition inside the Soviet Union. Joseph Stalin died in March of 1953, setting off political struggles and reorganizations with the enormous um Soviet security system. In 1954, the community, nope, committee for state security was formally established. Committee for State Security. Okay. Also known as KGB. Right. That's KGB. So the KGB was far larger than the stereotypical image of those trench-coated spies, and you know Do you have a monocle? Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Did he have a top hat?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

It handled foreign intelligence, counterintelligence, internal surveillance, border security, protection of Soviet leaders, and the suppression of threats to the communist system. So the KGB wasn't until after Stalin?

SPEAKER_03 33:47

I would have never guessed that, not knowing anything about it.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

Yeah. Yeah, see.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

I would have I would have totally guessed that was around in his lifetime, but I guess it kind of makes sense. You know, he was their leader for a while. And then, well, he died. So it's like, well shit, what do we do now, man? So I can see why that would have been um organized, created, whatever you want to call it, after the fact, but I would have never guessed that. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

So assassination was generally most useful when nobody could prove an assassination had occurred. Sure. Shooting a political opponent in the middle of Munich would immediately produce a murder investigation and potentially expose Soviet involvement.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

If that opponent suddenly collapsed from what appeared to be a heart attack, however, there might not be an investigation at all.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Oh man, his body went out on him. Shit.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Soviet intelligent has spent years developing poisons and specialized weapons intended for exactly that kind of operation. That's wild. Bodin Stashinski didn't know it yet, but the KGB was eventually going to give him one.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

But first they needed to get him closer to the enemies in Western Europe. Right. So in 1954, Stashinski went to East Germany, where his transformation from Ukrainian informer into international intelligence operative continued.

KGB Training And Hidden Assassinations

SPEAKER_03 35:22

I was hoping you were going to say international man of mystery.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

After World War II, Germany had been divided into occupation zones. Yeah. Which eventually hardened into two separate states.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Which is still wild because I know I didn't travel the entire country, but the parts I was at, I wouldn't have never known anything. But again, I didn't go like all over Germany. It's just weird that because of that war, it was like you said, two different states, East and West Germany. It's like, and then Mr. Was it Gorbachev turned on that wall and then it became Reagan?

SPEAKER_04 36:03

Wasn't that Reagan?

SPEAKER_03 36:05

He told that to Gorbachev, but yeah. Um if I'm remembering right, I was probably five, nine, six, whatever. Um and then it's like, yeah, well, here's Germany back. Yeah. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

So after World War II, Germany had been divided into these occupation zones. West Germany became the Federal Republic of Germany, aligned with the United States and Western Europe, while East Germany became the German Democratic Republic firmly within the Soviet bloc.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

Because wasn't it technically part of the Soviet Union, more or less, even though they were German, but they were run by the Soviets, right? Yes. Okay. If I'm I again no expert, but that's what I thought I remembered.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

So Berlin was even more complicated.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Wasn't it split in two as well? That also was split in two. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yes. Berlin is completely surrounded by East Germany. It is in East Germany.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

But there's a portion of Berlin that is considered West West Germany. West Berlin.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

It's wild that they did that, did it that way, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

So the Western sector basically became an island of sorts inside communist controlled territory.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Does it almost kind of like make you think of like a um what's what they always like? Get to the uh fuck, just lost the word. You're in a different country and you want to go to the American Like defect? No. The American consulate? Kind of that's one of the words. Embassy.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yeah, embassy, consulate.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

And it's almost like that's kind of what that was like. They had their own little thing within the East Germany. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm trying to get to. I did not eloquently say that. So apologies.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Because like the US embassy in other countries is technically US ground or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

It's US territory. Territory, yeah. Whatever, because you get there and you're you're on American soil, if you will. Yeah. It's just funny that like that's even a thing. But that's what makes that's what made me think of that. It's like you got this little sliver of Berlin. Yeah, we'll still call you West.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

So before construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961, movement between East and West Berlin was was relatively open.

SPEAKER_05 38:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

People crossed for work, shopping, family visits, political reasons, smuggling, escape, um, and of course, espionage.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Espionage.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

So for Soviet intelligence, Berlin was extremely useful. For Stashinski, it became training a training ground. Oh, I I would imagine so, yeah. He was given a German identity and documents identifying him as Josef Joseph Lehmann.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Josef? You good? No, a bug just flew at my eye, and uh we are gonna have words later. Oh dear. Fucker. Did you put him in timeout? I'm gonna put him in more than that.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Put him in jail. So Josef or Joseph?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Probably Joseph.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

You said both. Joseph.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Well, how would you sp pronounce J in German?

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Ja.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Okay, so it'd be Josef.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Josef.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Josef. Josef Lehman.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

If if I had to make an educated guess in the limited education that I have, I'd say Josef. Yeah. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So he improved his German, learned how to behave convincingly under his cover identity, and began carrying out intelligence assignments.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

That is relatively mundane work. He reportedly spent time recording license plate numbers from Western military vehicles and performing other surveillance that lacked glamour.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

You know, it's probably worth mentioning that this is what most spies actually look like. Just kind of that mundane stuff. It's not James Bond and Aston Martin's and cool watches that explode or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Oh my god, I love Aston Martin's.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yosef Lehman gets to stand somewhere inconspic inconspicuous and write down license plates. Yeah. So eventually, though, his assignments become more significant. I would hope so. By the mid-1950s, focus.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

There's a hair like sticking out of one of the gel dots from one of the many things that fell, and it just was anyways.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

So by the mid-1950s, Stashinsky was traveling to West Germany, including Munich, which had become another important center for Ukrainian emigrant politics.

SPEAKER_05 40:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So emigrant, not immigrant.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Emigrant is political um immigrants, so to speak.

unknown 41:00

I believe.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Well, isn't like you emigrate to a place you're an immigrant if you're already if like you and I are here and uh and someone from Mexico came in, they're an immigrant, but they emigrated to the United States. I think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

I think emigrate was moving someplace temporarily because of politics.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

I um again, I'm probably wrong. So who knows? Probably the internet.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Thousands of Ukrainians had ended up in Western Europe after the Second World War, sure, including political activists who had no intention of returning to Soviet-controlled Ukraine. Makes sense. Munich became home to Ukrainian organizations, newspapers, publishing operations, and political groups that continued advocating for independence.

Berlin Cover Identity To Munich Targets

SPEAKER_05 41:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

From Moscow's perspective, Munich contained a concentrated collection of people who had spent years opposing Soviet rule and showed no intention of stopping simply because they now lived in Germany. The KGB wanted to know that these what these organizations were doing, who they were communicating with, and which individuals posed the greatest threat. Oh, of course. During those operations, he hit one name began appearing more prominently for him, and that was Lev Rebet.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Lev Rebit.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

What a unique name.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Lev Rebit wasn't the most famous Ukrainian nationalist living in Munich, but he was an important political thinker within the immigrant uh community.

SPEAKER_05 42:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Born in 1912, Rebit had trained as a lawyer and become became involved with the OUN while still a young man.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

During the years surrounding World War II, he occupied political roles within the nationalist movement and was eventually arrested by Nazi authorities. Oh. Like Bandera, one of the leaders of the Nationalist factions, Rebit spent time imprisoned in Sachsenhausen concentration camp. Yeah, correct. After the war, he settled in West Germany and became increasingly important as a writer, editor, scholar, and political theorist. Oh wow. By then, the Ukrainian national movement in exile had fractured considerably. Rabbit eventually broke with Bandera's faction and became associated with a more democratic wing of the movement. He wrote extensively about Ukrainian politics, nationalism, and the possibility of a future independent state. This helps explain why Moscow considered him dangerous, even though he wasn't commanding an army, so to speak. Rebit's weapon was influence.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

I mean it's a it's funny how words can really Well influence, like you said. People and it's like people I I don't know how to say what I'm trying to what I'm thinking, but I can see how they could see him as a an enemy of the state, if you will, because of his influence with what he's saying, and people are I can I can get behind that, you know. It's just funny how words have such a weight.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

And so many people will basically live and die by those, and it's like have your own mind, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

So he could write arguments that circulated among Ukrainian immigrants and potentially reach people inside the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

He represented the idea that Ukrainian independence remained politically alive even after Soviet authorities had largely defeated the armed resistance inside Ukraine. Okay. For a government that treated political opposition as a security threat, a man with a printing press could be almost as irritating as a man with a rifle.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah, I mean, really, because even though, yes, this guy can shoot you, this guy can get words to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Anyone that will listen for that matter. Yep. So yeah, I I I understand that.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

There was also something else about Rabbit that made him vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

He lived relatively openly. He wasn't impossible to find, and he didn't move through Munich surrounded by bodyguards. He went to work, used public transportation, and followed routines that could be easily um observed.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Do you know what his work was?

SPEAKER_01 45:38

I mean, Ukrainian nationalist shit.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Was that a good paying job at the time?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Okay. So fucking bug, I tell you.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Stashinsky began observing those routines.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Initially, his assignment was just surveillance. He followed Rabbit, learned where he worked, watched how he traveled through Munich, and gathered information about his movements. Okay. Then the assignment changed. Soviet intelligence decided that watching Lev Rabbit wasn't enough anymore. They wanted him dead and they wanted Steschinsky

Lev Rebet Marked For Death

SPEAKER_01 46:11

to do it.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Wow. Yes. And did he all right? Or did he he didn't care? He just like, oh, I'm part of the Soviet Union. Now I'm just doing my job. Yep. Wow. Just I mean, whether you knew this was coming or not, I'd be like, wait, what? What do you want me to do?

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Can you can you send that telegram one more time?

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Can you spell that out for me?

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Yeah. What did that smoke signal say? I must have misread it. So fuck. That I mean, that's wild. Hey man, um we don't need his license plate anymore.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

We got that.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

We need him unalived.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Okay. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

So the weapon Steschin Stashinski was eventually shown was unlike anything he'd used before. It wasn't a conventional firearm that didn't need to fire a projectile into a victim. Right. Instead, the device consisted of a small aluminum cylinder, approximately six to seven inches long, about an inch across, small enough to conceal inside clothing or wrap inside an ordinary newspaper bundle. Oh, sure. Inside the cylinder was a sealed glass ampule containing a volatile cyanide-based poison.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

I was gonna say cyanide. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

When the firing mechanism was activated, the ampule would shatter and the chemical was forced through a fine screen at the end of the device.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

So so it would like spread?

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Yes. The screen contained the glass.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

And it also created the mist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Exactly. Wow. And it would produce that vapor that could be directed completely into a victim's face. Right. The target had to be close.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Well, that's that's an intimate assassination because everything involved, yeah. You can't, it's not from a distance. You're not a sniper, obviously. You're not even across the room. You're like, hey man, I got something to tell you. Pretty much. Yeah. It's like, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

So Stashinski couldn't stand across the street, just like you were saying, like wielding a pistol. Yeah, yeah. He would need to approach within roughly half a meter, point the cylinder towards the person's face, activate it, make sure the the victim inhaled the poison, and then leave. Like just as if nothing ever happened.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

It's like, hey man, did you get that? All right, I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

So once inhaled, cyanide interferes with the body's ability to use oxygen at the cellular level. So even though oxygen may still be present in the blood, the cells no longer use it properly, which can cause rapid collapse, seizures, cardiac arrest, and death.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

So that's what cyanide does. It like blocks oxygen from be working properly.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

So the KGB's particular delivery system offered another advantage. The poison could disappear rapidly from the scene.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

Yeah, and it's not like they have the forensic that we forensics that we have today. Uh where, you know, like you could test for that a real panel and all that good stuff. Yeah, you know more about that than me. But um yeah, that's wild because in that time frame, I don't want to say it's undetectable, but more or less mostly, right? Yep. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

So if there was no obvious wound, no reason for a po uh like to suspect poisoning.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Well, that's the biggest thing is like you like you said, it's not a gunshot. It's a mist. So it's like, well, there's no bullet hole. I don't know how he died. Yeah. Must have been a heart attack.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

A doc that's crazy. A doctor examining a suddenly dead middle-aged man might reasonably conclude that his heart had simply failed. And that was the entire point. Yeah, of course. There was, however, an obvious flaw in the plan from Stashinski's perspective.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

If he had a stand 18 inches away while cyanide was sprayed into another person's face, what about him? There was a very real possibility that he could also inhale it. So Soviet technicians had accounted for that problem. Oh, okay. Stashinsky was trained in how to minimize his exposure and was provided with protective medication and antidote procedures. Is there an antidote to cyanide? More procedures, I think. Just fucking hold your breath and walk fast. Yeah. So he was instructed to control his breathing during the attack and move away immediately after firing. Well, yeah. Even with those precautions, this was incredibly intimate and dangerous way to kill someone.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

Well, and that's the thing, like you're so close. And like I said, it's not like again, we can't fire this cross street. You gotta be up near him, whether you hide it in a bundle of newspapers or whatever. You still have to be close, like, did I get you? Alright, I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

It's like the the because I wouldn't even wait to ask anything, obviously. I'm joking when I say that, but I would fire run. I don't want that shit near me.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah, he basically did.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

So Seshinsky would have to walk directly towards Rabbit, raise the weapon while looking at him, fire it into his face, and continue walking as if nothing happened.

SPEAKER_05 51:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Before the Soviets allowed him to try that against a human being, they wanted him to become comfortable operating the mechanism.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

So this is where he kills the animal.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

According to Stashinsky's later testimony testimony, the test was performed on a dog. The animal was restrained. Stashinsky approached it with the weapon, and he released the poison towards its face, and the dog did die within minutes. Wow. So he had seen exactly what the weapon could do, and now he had to put it into play.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

So by the time Stashinsky returned to Munich for the assassination, he was all he already spent considerable time studying Rabbit's routine.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Rabbit worked in an office building in central Munich, and Stashinski realized the building itself might provide the best opportunity. The staircase created a confined environment where getting extremely close to someone wasn't suspicious.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Two people passing on the stairs routinely come within the distance Stashinski needed for the weapon to work.

SPEAKER_05 52:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

He wouldn't have to convince Rabbit to meet him anywhere. He wouldn't need to start a conversation. And most importantly, R Rabbit wouldn't necessarily realize he was being attacked until the attack was already over.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

So Stashinski prepared. He concealed the cylinder inside a rolled newspaper so we could carry it through Munich without anyone seeing an unusual metal device in his hand. Yep. He also prepared the medication intended to prov to protect him from accidental exposure, and then he waited. On the morning of October 12th, 1957, Steshinsky saw him leave for a streetcar and began walking towards his office building. Steshinsky moved ahead of Rabbit and entered the building first. Oh once inside, he climbed the circular staircase and waited until he heard Rabbit approaching from before. From below, excuse me.

SPEAKER_05 53:39

That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

So he turned around and started walking back down the stairs. Rabbit was climbing towards his office and had no obvious reason to pay special attention to this young man that was climbing down. Why would he have? Stashinsky held the rolled newspaper in his right hand with the end of the poison device positioned towards Rabbit. The distance between them narrowed until they were approximately half a meter apart. At that weapon, Stashinsky raised his hand and activated the weapon. The mechanism shattered the ampule, released the poison through the screen directly into Rabbit's face, and Rabbit inhaled it, and Stashinsky just kept walking. That's so wild. Within moments, Ret Rabbit staggered forward and collapsed on the stairs. Wow. There had been no shunk shotgun, excuse me, gunshot, no argument, no conversation, no struggle that would have told anyone nearby that what that a violent crime had just occurred.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Yeah, of course. So I assume the the device he had was relatively on the quieter side then.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Potentially, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

I I didn't actually come across any sound.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

And that's fine, but like just kind of making an educated guess here.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Yeah. It's just a glass ampule, so maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Yeah, so I there's gonna be like a tink or whatever kind of thing, but not obviously not a gunshot. It's way different than that. So I mean, that's especially in a stairwell.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

Where if not a lot of people are there, it's just you and the guy you're going after. You're not gonna hear much. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

So so Stashinski continued downstairs down the stairs without running. Didn't panic.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

No, he can't bring attention to himself.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Once he was away from Rebbe, he continued the procedures intended to reduce his own exposure to the poison and left the building. The entire attack had taken seconds. Wow. The complicated part was over. All Stashinski could do now was wait to see whether the KB KGB's strange little weapon had actually produced the kind of death they had promised. And it had. It sure did, yeah. Yes. Yeah. When Rabbit was discovered, collapsed on the staircase, there was no obvious um evidence that another person had caused his death. Okay. Their circumstances po pointed toward a sudden em um em medical emergency.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

What what does cyanide do to the body? It stops your heart? I mean, what does it do?

SPEAKER_01 56:10

I mean, I didn't look into that, but if it keeps you from getting from using oxygen suffocation, I mean it kind of sounds that way, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Because I mean as old as I am, you always hear about like, oh, cyanide pill or whatever, blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. You've always heard I've always heard of cyanide, and it's like, I don't know what it does to the body. I'm gonna look. Well, I mean, good, because I inquiring minds want to know.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

I just need to know how do I get my hands on some yeah, it prevents the body cells from using oxygen to create energy, effectively causing them to suffocate.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Wow, okay. I guess I never would have guessed that. But again, I had no idea what it did. No, so no.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Um, even though a person exposed to cyanide can still breathe air into their lungs and have plenty of oxygen in their blood, the poison blocks the cellular machinery from utilizing the oxygen. Isn't that wild how like it can go all the way that yeah, that small intimate it can get, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

That it's like, no, you don't need this.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Because the brain and the heart have the highest oxygen and energy demands, they are the most rapidly and severely affected. Oh, that makes sense. QQQ. Okay. Is it though? An autopsy was performed on Rabbit two days later. Okay, and the conclusion was cardiac failure. He was 55 years old.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

I mean, it kind of lines up.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

So the assassination had worked exactly as intended. Wow. Stashinsky disposed of the weapon by throwing it into a canal and returned to the Soviet bloc. From Moscow's perspective, the operation had been extraordinarily successful. Yeah. A political opponent had been killed in a major West Germany city without producing a murder investigation, and the assassin had escaped without attracting attention. There was something a little disturbing about how complete the deception had been. Oh. Rebit's family and colleagues didn't even know there was a killer.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

For years they would believe that Lev Rebit had died naturally. Stashinsky, meanwhile, had crossed a significant line in his relationship with the Soviet intelligence. Until then, he had informed on people, participated in surveillance, yada yada. Now he was he

Cyanide Spray Gun Assassination

SPEAKER_01 58:28

was a killer. He was an assassin. Whatever reservation Stesit Stashinski had about the killing, Soviet intelligence now knew something very important about him. When ordered to assassinate a target, he would do it. And that made him very valuable.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Oh, for sure. It's like, hey, we need this guy. I'm on it.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

And it also meant Rabbit was probably not going to be his last assignment. I would think not. After Rabbit's death, Stashinsky continued working for Soviet intelligence while the KB KGB began considering another assassination in Munich. This time the target wasn't simply an influential uh Ukrainian intellectual. He was probably the most recognizable Ukrainian nationalist leader living outside the Soviet Union. Oh. Stepan Bandera.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Stepan Bandera.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

He had spent decades fighting for he was one of the leaders of the factions. Yes, correct. Um he had spent decades fighting for Ukrainian independence and had accumulated enemies almost everywhere along the way. Before the Second World War, Bandera was already deeply involved in the Ukrainian Ukrainian nationalist movement, which at the time was fighting against Polish control of Western Ukraine. Okay. In 1934, members of the OUN assassinated Poland's interior minister, Bronislav Pier Piraki. Branislav. Bronislav Pieraki. And Bandera was accused of helping organize the plot.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

Wow, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

He was arrested, put on trial, and in 1936 sentenced to death for his role in the assassination. The sentence was later commuted to life in prison, where Bandera remained until Germany invaded Poland in 1939, and the collapse of the Polish government allowed him to regain his freedom. Oh wow. During the war, his movement had attempted to establish an independent Ukrainian state, leading Nazi authorities to arrest him.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

After the war, he settled in West Germany and continued leading his faction of the Ukrainian nationalist movement from exile. Bandera's exile wasn't like a formal punishment where someone said, You're being you're being exiled to Germany.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Yeah, you gotta go.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

It was essentially the result of where he ended up when World War II finished, and the fact that going home was not a realistic possibility. No, exactly. So Bandera knew he was a target. He did not live openly like Lev Rabbit did. Right, right, right. He used an assumed name, took security precautions, and understood that Soviet intelligence had every reason to want him removed. Sure. Killing him, therefore, required considerable more uh preparation.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

Not just looking at license plates.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

And a better weapon.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

So you're gonna have to change it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

The single cylinder device used against Rubbit had demonstrated that the basic idea worked, but the KGB wanted greater certainty the next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

Soviet technicians developed an improved version capable of firing two doses of poison instead of one. And once again, they turned to the Ukrainian operative who had already proven that he can get close enough to the person to do it. Bodan Stashinsky has started his adult life studying to become a teacher. Soviet security had recruited him as an informer, trained him as an intelligence operative, turned him into an assassin. Given him a German identity, and eventually place an experimental poison weapon in his hand. And that ends part one of Bodan Stashinski's assassin.

Bandera Tease And Part One Wrap

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

Wow. I mean, I could not even. I mean, again, times are way fucking different. Now we just get to go online and be like, you're a dick and walk away.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Yeah, no one knows.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

Yeah. Whereas back then it's like, I'm gonna use this experimental weapon, more or less, that has this poisonous shit in here. Your family's never gonna know. I couldn't even fathom, like. And again, from what you've said to me on this, he's like, alright.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

What else you got?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Yep, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

That's fucking wild. It's like, why why was he so just yeah, let's do this? I mean, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

So Nathan has been gone for like 10 days, and so last night we spent a couple hours just kind of catching up, and he was he was asking, like, hey, he sends me a lot of like stories and stuff, and he's like, have you have you looked into um any of one of my stories yet? And I was like, I read them all, I don't know if I'm starting one yet, I don't know. And then I was like, I'm actually starting this one about a KGB assassination. He goes, That's what I thank you. So this came from Nathan.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Thank you, Nathan. Yeah, appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

So, how did you like the pomegranate fizz from Blake's Hard Cider Company?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

It's good, uh-huh. Could be fizier. Yeah. I think fizz should be removed from the name.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

Yep. Flavor, not not bad. I I don't like it with ice.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

No, no, I think it dumbs it down too much, yeah, which is a bummer. Um, but I I I don't mind it if I had the same setup, I would go elsewhere. Yeah. Uh from this, but it it's okay. Yeah. It's no uh basil mint, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

No basil mint for a Seattle Cider Company.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

What is? I mean, that stuff's so good. I agree. Um we we pivoted. We they weren't called. Yeah, we need to record. We went on ice. Maybe not the best option, yeah. But it wasn't bad. Yeah. Excuse me. Whoa. It wasn't great either.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

I've had Mackenzie's black cherry.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:47

That one I really really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Highly recommend that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:51

So much that you had your friend Sam try it, too, right? And she liked cards. She likes cider, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

She liked that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

Yeah. But overall, is it bad? No.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

I wouldn't purchase it again though. I don't think I would either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

But you know, I'll I'll be interested in drinking it once it's cold out of the can.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

So I I did put two in the fridge. If we have time to have them, we will uh I'd pull them out of the freezer because I don't want them to freeze. Yeah, obviously. I don't think it'll be cold enough yet, so maybe I'll throw them back in the freezer. But um agreed, I would like to try it out of the can specifically. Over ice, at least it was cold.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

That's my big thing. I do not like warm drinks, as you know, but yeah, um it was it was okay. Yeah. Again, I agree, probably wouldn't buy this one a second time. Yeah. But hey, that's why we try different shit and go from there, and that's why we always have backup beers. So Welp I suppose.

Cider Verdict And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:08

Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at History Buffoons Podcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.