Check Your Local Ring Camera: Bohdan Stashynsky Part Two

Cold Open And Housekeeping

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Oh hey there. I might have to keep that in. No, please don't. Boom, boom. Alright, let's not get flagged here. Not that anyone really watches us.

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I'm Kate.

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I'm Bradley. We are the history of buffoons, and I'll get this out of the way. Thank you for everyone who listens to us. Please like, subscribe, leave comments, contact us, give us ideas if you have a story you'd like us to delve into. I said delve, I don't know if that's even proper. Um dive? Dive into, delve into. I feel like it's similar. I am Bradley, and I'm an idiot. Otherwise known as.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Buffoon.

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A buffoon.

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And today is part two of our story.

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KGB 007.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

So when I we always come up with a name for our podcast on something, and I'm not like, look at me go taking credit for this, because you've said quite a few too. But some it's usually typically it's on something dumb dumb. I said and I said KGB Bond, and we're talking after we recorded, and I'm like, oh, it's KG KGB 0007. You're like, did we say it? I'm like, oh yeah. And I listen back as I'm editing. I'm like, oh no. But I also texted you and I said, same thing. Bond and 007 are synonymous with each other. If you think of bond, you think of 007, you think of 007, you think of bond. So we just went with KGB 007. And and it's and it it works in my brain. So um, anyways, that was a very interesting start to the story. Uh Bodan, right? Bodan's Stashinski. Stashinski. What a wild fucking start. I mean, he's just like, yeah, I got this. Let's let's let's also kill some people. So, real quick. Wild. We have some wine. So we went uh I have in Scott classes.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Because why the fuck not? I think this are these called highballs?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

I don't remember, but my dad got me these for Christmas years ago. Um they've seen better days. They're getting a little bit of chips in here and there, but I hope you like this. I well, I mean it's on the sweeter side, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah. So this is yellowtail sangria, which I used to drink.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Oh yeah. It's tasty. No, yeah. It's like for me with wine, the sweeter the better. I'm not my dad would shoot me from his grave from this. Luckily it's just ashes, so he can't. But um, so let's go let's get a little dark. I miss my dad. But um he was a red wine guy. He would be like, What are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Is it sweet?

SPEAKER_04 3:05

It's sweet. Reds you typically don't um refrigerate, which you know me well enough that I don't like warm drinks.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Like I can't even drink. The one warm drink I drink is like hot chocolate. And that's in like the dead of fucking winter. Yeah. Other than that, I can't like Sarah and my wife, she loves coffee. Nathan loves coffee. You don't always drink it, but you will have it once in a while. But then you even cool it down sometimes. Um But Nathan loves it, Sarah loves it. I can't. I I couldn't do that. It's too warm. It would I'm warm enough. I don't need my insides to be warm, let alone my outsides. But anyways, so we are um can't like the lights, so we're trying that again.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

I uh I felt like there was a little bit of a shadow on my face. My microphone was a little bit higher last time, so hopefully you can hear me okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Okay. Um thank you to the seven people that watched it.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

So I want to call them out. They're awesome people.

Recap Of The Cyanide Weapon

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Let me recap real quick what the last episode was about.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Please. Oh, and by the way, I have I have backup shandies.

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So Bodan Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Yes, who is Ukrainian.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Had gone from a 19-year-old student who wanted to become a teacher.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Not even a student who wanted to become a teacher. He wanted to like tell people how to teach.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Which is still weird to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Um, he became then a KGB trained operative working under a fake German identity.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

And the Soviets decided um surveillance wasn't enough for him and handed a little weapon which does um sprayed cyanide into someone's face and make the death look natural. Yep. So he became an assassin.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

And you, I think towards the end, we had talked about they reworked the weapon to become a little more lethal where he could do two doses, and I apologize, I'm gonna cough. Or clear my throat. Sorry. I need something to drink. I didn't spit. Come on. Kate has a weird aversion to spit. I didn't spit, I just cleared my throat.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

That was so gnarly. Oh, that was so gross.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Okay, so that's how real we are on the history of a phones.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

In 1957, Steschinsky had used that weapon to kill Ukrainian political thinker Lev Revit in a stairwell in Munich, and it had worked perfectly. Doctors believe that Revit had died of heart failure. His family had no idea he had been murdered for years. Stashinsky returned to the the Soviet bloc um without anyone suspecting him. So for the KGB, that meant two things. Their poison gun worked, and so did Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Which they're like, fuck yeah, let's use this guy again.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

So seriously, that they thought this, like, all right, he was perfect. What he he took every direction. Yeah, let's let's let's rock.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah. So they were ready to send him back to Munich with an updated double barrel wet version of the weapon for a much bigger target in mind. Stepan Bendera.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

So the double barrel version literally just had two doses. What'd you call them? Uh uh Ambules. Ambules, yeah. Um do they both fire at the same time? Did did you come across that?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

It was unclear. However, one was meant for his bodyguard and one was meant for Bandera.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

So I wonder if they were separate then. Because that that's what I would assume from that comment there.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Um, because if because you had said Bandera, right? Correct name. Um, he didn't live like Love Rabbit out in the open. He had an assumed name, he had security, so on and so forth. Kazum type. Kazum type.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

So, yeah, so um Rabbit had been an influential political leader. Yeah, and he lived relatively openly in Munich, and Bandera was different.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Yeah. Good lord.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Kazun type.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

By the late 1950s, he was one of the best known Ukrainian national leaders, and he had accumulated enemies over several decades, and he had good reason to believe that someone might eventually try to kill him.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Well, because you briefly touched on his lack of a better way of saying it, origins on the last episode. He he was more or less he because he was exiled to Western Germany, right? Um was he in the Eastern Eastern either way, Germany, East Western. But you had said he was exiled there after the war, because he was arrested at one time too, if I'm not mistaken. And um that's why he took on like an assumed name and security, because he pretty much, well before um Lev Rabbit was killed, just assumed people were out for him. Yes. Right. Yes, because of how vocal and his um what's the right word I'm ideologies. That and just his um, there's another word I was gonna use, but yeah, ideologies, yeah, because people followed him.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

So he was very uh cautious, we'll s we'll just say, of his uh his travels. Yes.

Who Stepan Bandera Really Was

SPEAKER_02 9:08

So depending on who was telling the story, Bandera had been portrayed as a Ukrainian independence hero, a fascist, a revolutionary, a terrorist, a Nazi collaborator, a prisoner of the Nazis, and any combination of the following. So several of those pieces, uh descriptions could be the truth, um, which is precisely why reducing him to like a single label is very doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

It's very hard to do.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Stepan Bandera was born in 1909 in Galicia, which is a region that would eventually become Western Ukraine, but was then part of the Austro-Hungary Empire. Ah, okay. His father was a Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest and a strong supporter of Ukrainian independence. So nationalism wasn't something that Bandera had discovered later on in life. He like grew up with it.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

So h his dad was Greek?

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah. He was a Ukrainian Greek Catholic.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

So after World War I and the collapse of Austria-Hungary, Icia became part of the the newly esta re-established Polish state.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

So many Ukrainians uh living there resented Polish rule, and Badera became increasingly involved in the radical nationalist underground. By the early 1930s, he had risen within the organization of Ukrainian nationalists or OUN.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

OUN, okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

The organization embraced political violence, sabotage, and assassination as legitimate tools in the struggle for Ukrainian independence.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Which, okay, I understand. You know, they're trying to free themselves, if you will, from outside forces, as as they saw it.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

But and Bandera became one of the movement's most important organizers.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

In 1934, Polish authorities arrested him in connection with the assassination of Poland's interior minister Bronislav Piraki. He was just an organizer in the plot. He didn't actually do the assassination.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

Oh, so he he was linked to it, but he didn't carry it out.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Bandera, though, was sentenced to death in January of 1936 during the Warsaw trial over the assassination. That's good. However, a Polish amnesty law resulted in his death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment. And because Poland had temporarily stopped carrying out executions for ordinary criminal cla cases by the time that Bandera was sentenced, so he remained in a Polish prison until 1939. When Germany uh when Germany invaded Poland and the Polish state began collapsing around him.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Yeah, you would you you did you did mention that in the last one. And could you imagine, like, obviously, we all know what happened with World War II. Like, now we're not gonna invade. He'd be like, come on, man. Because that's the only way he got out.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

But he has but if I'm not mistaken, you said he also then went to a concentrate concentration camp? He did. Right. And then got released again and then went into exile to Germany. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

So Bandera escaped or was released among amongst the chaos and returned to nationalist polit uh political activity. Yeah. Um in 1940, the OUN split into these factions. You said that. One was Andrew Mel Melnick, while the other one was from Bandera, and Bandera called it the OUNB.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

OUNB. So like the second one is more or less.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Or B for Bandera.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Well I feel like he would be the kind of uh what's the word I'm looking for? Douchebag that would do that. I mean, look at me. It's after me, brother. I don't know. I just he just because he seemed kind of and again, I don't know the guy, obviously. I know little about him, only from what you said in the last episode, but it's like, yeah, let's name this after me. I don't know. I just get that from him, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

So Bandera's supporters believe that the war tearing Europe apart might finally create an opportunity for the independence of Ukraine. Yeah. So when Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June of 1941, members of the OUNB moved quickly. On June 30th, nationalists in the view proclaimed the restoration of an independent Ukrainian state.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

However, Hitler did not agree to this.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

No. Nazi Germany telling me Hitler didn't agree with things.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

What? Nazi Germany wasn't invading the Soviet Union to liberate Ukraine and help Bandera build a sovereign country.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Of course not. They were invading to try and stop the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Exactly. Hitler had his own plans, and an independent Ukrainian government was not one of them.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

That was probably last on his fucking mind. He probably wanted to do more art before that.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

German authorities demanded that Bandero withdraw the declaration, and he refused, so the Germans arrested him.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

And that's why he went to the concentration camp.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Bandero was held at Zachsenhausen concentration camp, although conditions were different for him because he was more of a well-known political prisoner.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Do you did you come across where Zachsenhausen was? I I've heard not just because you mentioned it in the last one, but I I know I've heard of that. I can't place where that's where it was. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

So as Germany's military position deteriorated, the Nazis released Bandera and other nationalist figures in hopes that they might help organize resistance against the advancing Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

This complicated wartime history. Um, so um this part remains part of uh Bandera's uh controversial state. Gotcha. Elements of the Ukrainian national movement collaborated with Nazi Germany, anti-Semitism was present within the movement, and forces associated with Ukrainian nationalism participated in horrific violence against civilians, most notoriously the mass killing of Poles in Valenia and Eastern Galizia.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

So what you're saying is they were Nazi adjacent for a little bit. Yeah. That's really sad. Yeah. And I can see why uh some people would want him killed. Because he's maybe whether he was on board fully or even just partially, he was on board enough that he supported these war crimes, more or less, right? Yeah. That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

So Bandera represented a Ukrainian independence movement that the Soviet Union thought it had defeated but never managed to erase.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

When Bandera settled in West Germany, my apologies. See, I was right. He continued leading his faction of the OUN from exile.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

He maintained contract, excuse me, contacts throughout the Ukrainian dis de diaspora. Diaspora.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Diaspora? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

It's the a word meaning spreading out or the dispersion of a group of people from their original homeland to other parts of the world. Gotcha. So he had contacts throughout that, remaining uh sorry, remained violently anti-Soviet and continued looking for ways to support resistance from inside Soviet Ukraine.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

The KGB regarded him as an enemy, and unlike Lev Rabbit, who was the first person assassinated in the first episode, Bandera knew he was a target.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Yeah. And that's why again he used assume names and he had security. Because he thought, well, I'll be good.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

So he lived in Munich under the name under the name Stepan Popel, and he maintained security precautions and tried to conceal some of his movements.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

He did have family that lived with him, which complicated his precautions, but Bandera understood that Soviet intelligence had every reason to be interested in where he would lived and what he was doing. Yeah. The KGB already had someone working on that problem, and that was Bodan Stashinsky.

Hunting A Target Under An Alias

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Oh, so he was already.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

He was recruited to follow Bandera.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Oh. But after Lev Rabbit? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Stashinsky began searching for Bandera before he was actually ordered to kill him, though.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

Really?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Soviet intelligence.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Was I'm sorry if you can do this right now. So were those orders from them saying find this guy before they ever gave the orders to kill the guy? Okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

So Stashinski began searching for Bandera. Soviet intelligence wanted information about the Ukrainian nationalist network in Munich, and Bandera was the person to find it.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

But it wasn't easy. Stashinsky knew the man he was looking for, but Bandera was using the name Stefan Popol. That you that simply like searching directories wasn't gonna find him, you know.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

His name was Stefan Bandera. Is it was that his original first name?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, Stefan Bandera, and he he assumed Stefan Popel.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

I mean, I feel like if you're any kind of trained operative, you'd be like, Sam first name, let's look at this guy. Yeah. I understand like things are so different. It's not like it's not like Stashinski. Wow. Butcher that.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Stash.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Stashinski, thank you. Yeah. I was tripping on my tongue there. Let's go to Google. What are these names? You know, I get they didn't have that. But I feel like in that time wouldn't you have changed your first name to? I don't feel like you would. I feel like you should.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

But I mean, okay, I mean, this is my name, man.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

So because Stashinski didn't know his name, he had to watch people, identify patterns, follow associates, and gradually connect the pieces together. So over several months, he did locate Bandera and began studying his movements.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

So do you think when um Bowden's like, I got him? Hey Rooskies, I got him. And then like, let me get some more info. Could you imagine being like, yeah, this is the guy I'm supposed to find. And like having to report that to the KGB is fucking It still blows my mind that the KGB wasn't until after Stalin. When you said that in the first episode, I'm like, wait, what? I just always felt like, again, without any knowledge, the KGBs always existed. But the fact that they were more or less organized after the fact. But could you imagine like, alright, I think I got the guy? Let me just send us a telegram. Or full stop. Found him. Stop. Uh Stephen. Stop. Stop. Poble. Stop. New last name. Stop. It's like.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Did you hit your screen? Yeah. Oh deah. But do you know do you know what I mean though? It's like again, I'm I've never been a fucking assassin or spy or anything, so I I can't grasp my head fully around it, especially in that time frame. You know, post World War II, early Cold War stuff. It's like, yeah, I found a guy and let's here we go. Fucking wild.

Spy Life Versus Movie Fantasy

SPEAKER_04 21:10

I don't know. It just blows my mind that like so it's in um Skyfall. James Bond Skyfall, you know, movie, where um more or less Amazon kind of on trial. They're like, you know, doesn't so much live in the shadows, like they're saying that your your unit is obsolete kind of thing. It just reminds me of this though. It's like we live in such a different time from obviously this is 70 years ago. Where you can look shit up online and but uh but then again, what can you believe online too? There's so much fake shit out there. But my point is these people did live in the shadows, they did follow these people, they did their Homework and you know follow their routines and whatever. It's just it's wild that that was a thing. Because in our age, even though you know I'm older, but um you I don't I don't what am I trying to get across here? It's just wild to me that this was a real fucking thing, yeah, and probably still is to a degree, maybe a little bit altered, different, whatever you want to call it, because of the technologies we have today. But like, could you imagine 70 years ago, no internet, you you had to read a newspaper, you had to literally follow a fucking person and put a hat on, and all of a sudden you're a different person. Right. Or put your glasses on, you're not clo you're not Superman anymore, you're Clark Kent. Yeah. It's just were they like how do how do people not recognize other people? But it's just it's wild that this was a lack of a better way to say it, a profession. Like Bodan was literally recruited, did this, and already carried out one assassination. Let's get on to the next, folks. I don't know. It just blows my mind that this was a real thing. Yeah, is all I'm trying to say. It's not just in the movies. No, and and uh thank you. And that's more or less my point. I didn't really articulate that well, but you know, like with Bond, I grew up on Bond, you know, he was a spy, 007, MI6, all that stuff, and countless other movies, whereas like it's it's glamorized, it's yeah, personified, like, you know, like look at this guy, he's great. Like, I love James Bond. Movies, books, all that stuff. I love Daniel Craig as James Bond. To me, he did a great job. He did an amazing job. My my dad would like um Sean Connery's Bond. I get it, Dad. That's when you grew up too. You you grew up with those. Like for me, early on, I liked Roger Moore better than like Sean Connery until I knew better. And I love Roger Moore. I'm not like trying to take that away from him, but then I'm like, oh, okay, I see what my dad's saying. I love Daniel Craig as James Bond. My point is lost in my brain. Give me a second. Um was I going with this? Walk it back, walk it back, walk it back. Where the fuck was I going with this? Shit.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

It wasn't just in the movies. You were talking about uh how James Bond was a spy and glamorized and yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

What you think about it? That motherfucker just killed people.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah. But we're like, yeah, Bond! Look, you just murdered somebody. Yeah. It's like, holy shit, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Yeah. So it's in in the movies, in the books, in in literature and stuff. It was glamorized. Yeah. Whatever. And because Ian Fleming, who was part of um Operation Mince Meat, uh callback, Origin of Weird. First episode. First episode of Origin of Weird, he created Bond because that's what he wanted to be, is what it was, more or less. But it's like, he's just a fucking cold-blooded killer. Doing orders from his government. Because that's never happened before. Wow, that really echoed through that. Um I apologize. But you know what? Do you have any idea what the fuck I'm trying to say? For sure. I'm just all I'm trying to say is like we glamorize it. We do. We glamorize a murderer. More electronically.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

But it's it's real.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Under direction, and it's real, and that's my point. Yeah, it's not just this is all completely fabricated shit. This actually shit did actually fucking happen. Yeah. And that's just what's wild to me, is that Bodan Stashinski could do right, um, was a real person who really did this. That's fucking wild to me. That's a really roundabout way to get there. I I apologize for my my tirade there.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

That's quite alright. I enjoyed it. So, like I said, Stashinski, once he found out who he was, um, he was meant to watch and identify patterns and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

And then the KGB told him, now you assassinate.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Do you have any time frame of how long he watched him before they told him that?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Or I don't, but I know it took several months to find him. Right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Okay. No, I was just curious, like, how long the time frame is. It's like, all right, look for this guy. And next day, yeah. I found him, let's say three months later, I found him. All right, kill him. You know, I was just curious if you came across that.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

I I didn't think you would have, but so the basic method would be familiar because of the rabbit killing.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Um, German doctors had concluded that rabbit died from heart failure, which meant that the KBG had managed to kill an opponent in West Germany without anyone realizing that a crime had taken place. Yep. And there was no reason to abandon this idea.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

Well, why would you? It was very effective.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

But there's room for improvement.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

So two of them.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

For the Bandera operation, uh Stashinski received a modified version of the poison weapon instead of the single cylinder that he used against Rabbit.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

It was two.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

The new device had two barrels allowing it to discharge two doses of poisoning.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

But what it sounds like at separate times. Yeah, I didn't Well, because you had said one was for bodyguard, and yeah. Again, whether you came across it or not, that's the perception I'm getting. Which would make sense though, because he's a I I wouldn't you call him more high profile than Lev?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

He is more high profile, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

So, I mean, especially because he goes under assumed names, he has fucking security, whatever. So you would have to assume there's a good potential that other people are involved in his daily routine and such and whatever. Hence the let's double barrel this shit.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

So I I get it.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

So but uh Stashinski

The Aborted First Attempt

SPEAKER_02 28:20

needed an opportunity where he could approach Bandera within a few feet without him knowing. Yep. Um, so that required patience. Yep. It also produced at least one occasion where Stashinski got close to carrying out the murder but backed away. Really? In May of 1959, he traveled to Munich, prepared to kill Bandera. Okay. He had the weapon, he located his target, he had an opportunity, but he said the circumstances didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Did did you get to elaborate on why? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Um accounts of this differ somewhat in their details, but Stashinski later acknowledged that he failed to carry out the killing and returned without completing the assignment. And that could have created a serious problem for him. The KGB hadn't sent him to Munich with an experimental cyanide sprayer so that he could come back and say, like, oh, feeling it. So he later admitted that he had suddenly become very aware that he was about to kill a man who had never personally done anything to him. Stashinski.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Did Love Rabbit do anything to do? I mean, that's exactly that's a weak ass argument because Love Rabbit never did anything to Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

So Stashinski walked away, he discharged the weapon harmlessly into the ground and then disposed of it. Oh. He couldn't turn to return to the KGB and just said that he lost his nerve. So instead, he told his superiors that someone else had appeared nearby and made it too dangerous to carry out the assassination. He also had a legitimate problem with the special key he'd been given to enter Bandera's building. It was like a skeleton key. Oh. The thing didn't work, and part of it actually broke inside the lock. That's not good. The KGB accepted his explanation, but they sent Stashinski back out a couple months later. You're going right back to Munich.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Well, I mean, why wouldn't you? You're the KGB. Like, we want this guy dead. Okay. Attempt one failed. And it's not like they could be like, well, let's check the videotape back then, right? Let's check CCTV, shall we? Yeah, it's like, um, can we get your local uh ring cameras? Exactly. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 30:45

So someone broke into a house in my town. What? Someone broke into a house in my town um last week.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Really?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

And they were on Facebook in our town's Facebook group asking for neighbors nearby with ring cameras to come forward.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

Dear. I know. No way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Apparently they stole like Pokemon cards, baseball cards, something very specific.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

That seem it almost seems targeted.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, maybe personal.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Don't know. Because like I am no thief. I would never do this. But if I'm going in, I'm grabbing everything. I'm not focusing. They got dude. Jeff, they got Pokemon cards. Let's grab those. Like, what?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Do you think they have baseball cards too?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah. No. So it seems like a targeted thing, but nonetheless, it happened in my little town.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

I really want to know, Tani.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Okay, so October 15th, 1959.

The Stairwell Assassination In Munich

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Okay. Stashinski once again in Munich carrying the double barrel poison weapon. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

And this is months after the first failed attempt.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yes, Bandera and his family occupied an apartment, and Stashinsky decided that the building itself once again offered the kind of opportunity he needed. Sure. So much like the rabbit assassination, a stairwell could place the assassin and the victim extremely close together without Stashinsky trying to lure Bandera anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

I just want to say, elevators, am I right?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

So that afternoon, Stashinsky waited near the building. Eventually he saw Bandera arrive. Okay. Bandera had been out and was returning home carrying groceries. He drove into the area, parked, and made his way towards the entrance, and Stashinski entered ahead of him.

SPEAKER_04 32:42

How does he always get ahead of him? That's amazing. Put your head down and go.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

So once again, he was holding a small device designed to spray into a man's face. Yep. And once again, his success depended on getting close enough that the target had no time to react. So Stashinski moved into position, and as the two men approached each other, Stashinsky raised the double barrel weapon and discharged it towards Bandera's face. Bandera inhaled the poison, and Bandera left.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

And Bandera began to collapse behind him. Resident soon found him badly injured at the bottom of the staircase because he fell. There was blood around his face and head, which initially created some confusion about what had happened. The fall itself had caused injuries, and at first it wasn't obvious that poison had been involved. Of course. Bandero was taken for medical attention, but he could not be saved. He was 50 years old. Wow. At this time, however, the KGB did not get the beautifully clean medical conclusion that they had received for Lav Rabbit's case. Doctors found evidence of cyanide.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

How did Did you come across how they found it?

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Both of the barrels were sent off.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

So there was So there was just so much of it? Yeah. Oh whereas the other one It was a single barrel. Single barrel. It was it was enough to kill him, but not enough to detect, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Both barrels went off. There was enough cyanide where he inhaled it, it killed him. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

But then some remained on his body.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Some was still there. Oh wow. That's wild. Yeah. Okay. I mean it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

So Munich now had a murder investigation.

Cyanide Evidence Sparks An Investigation

SPEAKER_04 34:42

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

The discovery of cyanide immediately changed the situation. Bendera had plenty of enemies, which meant investigators didn't have the luxury of starting with a single obvious suspect. Nope. His decades of radical pol politics had brought him into conflict with Polish authorities, rival Ukraine Ukrainian factions, Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union. Sure. So the obvious suspicion was that Soviet intelligence might be involved, but proving that was another matter.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Well, that's gotta be pretty fucking hard to do. I mean, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

There was no weapon sitting next to Bandair's body.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

He wasn't, again, shot.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Nobody saw Stashinsky leaving with the dead body behind him.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

So he got away pretty clean then.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Stashinsky returned east.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

And meanwhile, the KGB considered the operation a success.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Well, I mean, if you go by the outcome, right? I mean, we wanted him dead, he's dead. Mission accomplished.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

So in Moscow, Stashinski received one of the Soviet Union's significant military decorations.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

I remember you said in the first episode that he received received an award. The Order of the Red Banner. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Do you have any details or it's just one of the highest decorations? But according to his later testimony, the award was presented in connection with the specific bandera assassination.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Is it more more or less again not Medal of Honor? Yeah. Was it a medal of honor for us? And again, I'm not saying that's what it is or whatever, but the significance is high. Thank you. Yeah. Okay.

Rewarded By Moscow After The Kill

SPEAKER_02 36:32

So but Stashinski's life had continued along the path Moscow intended. There was ever reason to think that he actually could kill and would kill again. Later, archival material indicates that his handlers expected him to continue assassination work.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

And Stashinski also gathered information on other Ukrainian immigrant figures. Instead, something was already happening in Stashinsky's private life that would eventually make him almost useless to the KGB. He got married? Her name.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Oh dear, it's always a woman. Was Inga Pol.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Inga? Spelled I-N-G-E. Inga.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Oh, I would have won it A, but alright. Inga Gol. Paul. It's always a woman.

Inga And The KGB Tighten Control

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Stashinsky met Inga Pol in East Germany.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

While he was living under his German identity.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Did he ever disclose to her?

SPEAKER_02 37:31

He did.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

For Inga, the man she met initially was not Bodan Stashinsky. Obviously. Ukrainian-born Soviet intelligence operative assassinator. No.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Inga is a pretty good German name. Was she German?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Um, he was Josef Lehman.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

That's right, Yosef.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah. Their relationship became serious, and that presented a problem because intelligence agency agencies tend to become a little bit uncomfortable when their undercover assassinative operatives fall in love with people who know nothing about who they actually are.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Dating, am I right? I mean, can you blame them for being like, dude, what the fuck you doing, man? Yeah. You're not supposed to bang this chick. I just one and done. But he's like, I kind of love her.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

So Stashinski did eventually toll tell Inga the truth about who he was.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

That's that is a fucking It took years though. I would honestly I would hope so. Because it's like, hey, we've been I know we've only been dating for two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Fair versus I know we've been dating for two years.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

I'm a Russian spy. Could you imagine?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Oh okay. Okay, Yosef, okay, Yosef. Whatever you say.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

Are you telling me your name's not Yosef? Actually, it's Bowdan. What the f do you understand what I'm saying, though? It's like two weeks, two years, whatever the timeline is.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Is there a right time to tell your your loved ones that you're an assassinator?

SPEAKER_04 39:22

We need to talk. I am a spy.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Okay, so he told her everything, including the killings. Inga.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

Wow. Yeah. I don't know if I go that far. No, he told her. Yeah. Alright, let's let's roleplay here. I am Braddanovich. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Brad Danovich?

SPEAKER_04 39:51

I'm Russian. Whatever. And I mean.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

I'm Katya. The German.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

Okay, let's let's do that. Good afternoon, Katya. I am Brad Danovich. I murder people for a living. How are you today? It's like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Let's get married.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Would you like to be engaged?

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

That's I would. So Katya.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Inga now knew that the man that she loved had assassinated two people on orders of the Soviet intelligence. But and rather than ending their relationship, the revelations seemed to have pushed Stashinsky further into questioning the life that he had been living.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Well, I mean, okay. I'm sorry, what was her name? Did you see her? Inga Inga. Yeah. Um good on Inga for making this assassin question his fucking morals more or less. Am I doing the right thing? I'm killing people. Do I want to do that or do I want to have babies with Inga? You know, it's like. I can see how conflicted he could be because he's like, wait a minute. I want to bang this German chick. But I also want to kill that fucker.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

So Inga was a security problem, so the KGB wasn't all ho-hum about the relationship, but they knew about it.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Not ho- hum, they weren't all hunky-dory. They were ho-hum about it.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

She was East German rather than Soviet. She knew too much and she had emotional influence over an operative entrusted with the Soviet Union's uh most sensitive information.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

The Punani can do very dangerous things.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Stashinsky never nevertheless wanted to marry her, and eventually Soviet authorities allowed it, although the couple's life became increasingly controlled.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

I was trying to take a step, but then you said that, and I'm like, they fucking allowed that?

SPEAKER_02 41:56

That is impressive. So they spent made me drill in my beard. They spent time in Moscow where the KGB could keep a close eye on them.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

For sure. To like make sure this is fucking legit, not like Inga's some other operative working her way in kind of thing. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Have you seen the Americans?

SPEAKER_04 42:15

I I've heard nothing. So good. But uh Carrie Carrie Russell.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Carrie Russell. Who is the Matthew Reese? That sounds like they're actually a married, they're actually married in real life, if I'm not mistaken. But they play a couple who are Russian who are trying to be well, they're spies. Yeah. They're spies.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

That name sounds right. I don't know if that's correct, but I know it's Carrie Russell. Matthew Reese might be right. Such a great show. We'll have to uh fact check that, but I've heard nothing but good. Like I like Carrie Russell. She's great. And I heard nothing but good things about her in that show. Yeah. And just the show in general is very good. It's very good. Um because that was a that was a network show, right? Like a FX or what one of those, whatever the fuck it was. Um I'll I'll have to look for that because I brewer season, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

I know. Brewers take a lot of time. They do. And they're doing so great.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Go brewers. Okay, okay. Let me get back to this.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

Can I finish real quick?

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

All I was just gonna say is I catch up on shows in the fall.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

In the off season. In the brewer off season.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

Because obviously with football, it's typically, and I I'll watch other games. I typically just watch the Packers once a week.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Yeah. Brewers? Almost every day.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

I mean, literally, like uh we had day off yesterday. I thought I was talking to my brother yesterday, and like brewers are off today, right? He's like, Yeah. They played like 17 games in 16 days. Jesus. And and unless they're on on the west coast, I watch almost every single fucking game. So I had And I don't have time. I've been watching I only got two episodes in. And I tried to watch a third, and I'm like, I'm tired. I'm gonna dose off. Turn it off. Um, this new show on Apple TV, or not new, it's been out for three fucking years. But it's like, when do I fit all this shit in? So I have like such a huge bank of shows to watch until this is over. So, anyways, okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

So their apartment was reportedly monitored remon monitored, and Stashinsky and Inga became cautious about what they could say aloud in their own home. Sure. At times they communicated by writing notes rather than speaking.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Until now the KGB had controlled him partly by controlling the world around him.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

As a young man, Stashinski's family connections had made him vulnerable to Soviet pressure.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Later, the art organization provided his training, his identities, his travel, his employment, his money, and his purpose.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

Well, they were his bakerl.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

And now, Inga was increasingly encouraging him to get out. So the problem was figuring out how.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

So what you're telling me is like, hey, um Yosef, if that's who you really are, bod. I think you should stop killing people.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

I think it's time.

SPEAKER_04 45:26

Um, I'm not sure if you know this, but that's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

So Stashinski knew too much for the KGB to casually accept a resignation letter. There was no version of this conversation where he could walk into an office and say, thanks for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Hey, it's been real. It's been real.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Thanks so much. I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

I really enjoy killing those people for you, but uh, I think I'm done with my murderous ways. Yeah. So um peace. You want to pass the torch? That'd be great. I'm gonna go bang this Inga chick. So Jesus Christ, could you fucking imagine? That is wild.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

He knew details about covert operations. That's the thing. It's like you can't just walk away from this. He knew how the KGB worked, how the weapons worked, he knew names and methods and locations and procedures. He was too he was too far in.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

He was too in the right word, not indoctrinated, but he was deep.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

If he escaped to the West and talked, he could expose an international assassination program. And the KGB knew that. So Stashinsky and Inga remained under close observation, but then Inga became pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Oh

Pregnancy, Tragedy, And New Leverage

SPEAKER_04 46:42

shit. Baby killer.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

The pregnancy gave Inga an opportunity to return to East Germany. Okay. She wanted to give birth there. It's closer to her family. That's where she's from, yeah. And Soviet authorities eventually allowed her to leave Moscow, but Stashinsky had to remain behind.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Their son Peter was born in 1961.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

What was his last name? What what name did he go after? Because it's it was Yosef what? Lehman. Yosef Lehman? Yeah. That was his last name. That was his name? Or Bodan Stashinski. So it's hey Peter Lehman Stashinsky?

SPEAKER_02 47:24

I didn't actually look because the baby unfortunately didn't last.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Oh, he just like pieced them out?

SPEAKER_02 47:31

For Sashinsky, who was still in Moscow, the separation became another source of frustration. Oh, I know. He wanted to join his wife and child while the KGB had very good reasons to keep keep one of his of its assassinations from wandering too close to West Germany.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

You mean his assassins? Mm-hmm. Peter died.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Peter died while still an infant. Oh, that's so sad. The exact circumstances surround him.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Lindsay Clancy there. What? What?

SPEAKER_02 48:00

What?

SPEAKER_04 48:00

I said it was Lindsay Clancy there.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

I don't know who that is.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

Yeah, we talked about it last time, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Who's that?

SPEAKER_04 48:06

The one who killed her three kids.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

So what did he die of? Does it say?

SPEAKER_02 48:15

It doesn't say. No. That's so sad. The exact circumstances um l uh surrounding the death later attracted suspicions from Soviet security officials. Oh, really? Who apparently considered the possibility that some something could have been done to deliberately kill the child to get Stashinsky to travel. I mean, I think But there's no good evidence of that.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

I can see their thought process there. But way to be sympathetic at all.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

So Stashinski asked for permission to travel to East Germany for his son's funeral, but even under those circumstances, the KGB did not simply wave him through and trust him to come back. So by this point, his superiors already had reasons to worry about him. They knew how attached to he how how attached he was to Inga. They knew the couple had expressed dissatisfaction with Soviet life, and they had spent years controlling when and where the two of them were allowed to travel together. Sure, I get that. The death of their son changed the situation enough that the KGB finally relented.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

Really? That's surprising.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Sashinsky was allowed to travel to East Germany, although he remained under strict observation, and he was expected to return to Moscow afterwards. That's

Planning The Escape With Documents

SPEAKER_02 49:36

wild. What the Soviet officials did not know was that Bodin and Inga had already spent a long time thinking about an escape.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 49:44

The funeral was a tragedy, but it also created something that they have not been given before: a chance to be together on the outside of the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

No doubt, because I mean they're out obviously under the watchful eye of them. It's like, hey, uh, let's boogie.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Stashinsky was too vulnerable to the KGB, and the people watching him knew exactly what a defecation could expose. So he knew the identities of handlers, details of Soviet operations, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_04 50:18

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

However, Stashinski came prepared. He brought documents connected to his German cover identity, Josef Lehman, along with papers that could help prove who he actually was.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

And establish his connection with the Soviet intelligence. Oh. If they reached the West, those documents could be the difference between being taken seriously or being dismissed as a stranger with a stupid story.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Or just a psychopath.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

Inga's family lived in a community just west of Berlin, and Soviet or East German security officers were keeping watch. The couple knew that using the most obvious route out of town could put them directly into the hands of those assigned to monitor them. Makes sense, yeah. Instead of heading towards the local rail railway station, they quietly left the house and walked towards another town several miles away. Wow. That decision mattered because the escape deep depended less on speed. Right. Rather than avoiding attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if they had suddenly run or disappeared in a car, that kind of thing, it would be pretty immediate. Sure. So once they reached an outside town, they hired a taxi and headed towards Berlin. That's wild. Excuse me. East and West Germany had not been divided by the concrete wall we all know. Not until after this, yes. But authorities still conducted identity checks and controlled movements in important locations. Stashinsky had to rely on the identity he

Crossing Into West Berlin

SPEAKER_02 52:00

had spent years using for Soviet intelligence. The name Joseph Uh Lehman, Joseph Lehman, originally created to help him operate undercover, now became part of his attempt to escape. That's wild. The couple made their way to S Bahn Network, which is a commuter train, and traveled towards the western sectors of the city.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

I traveled out on the S Bahn.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Did you?

SPEAKER_04 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

At checkpoints along the way, Stashinsky prevent uh presented his documents and tried to behave exactly like someone who had no reason to be nervous. Like he belonged there. He considering that he was a KGB assassin, attempting to defect while carrying papers that could expose his real identity. Yep. Probably one of the few times in his life where acting like naturally genuinely mattered.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Oh, no doubt, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Eventually the train crossed into West Berlin. For Banan Bodan and Inga, the station represented something completely different than an ordinary stop on a railway line. A little bit of freedom. They had crossed out of communist-controlled territory.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Which is wild.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Could you imagine what they felt when they and no KDB handler behind them?

SPEAKER_04 53:11

Right. Or so they know.

unknown 53:15

No.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

For the first time in years, Stashinski was outside the immediate control of the organization that had recruited him. The couple did not disappear into Berlin and hoped nobody would find them. Stashinsky went directly to the authorities.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Wow. That's a bold move, Cotton. Let's see how that pays off for him.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

On on the afternoon of August 12th, 1961, Boden and Inga entered a police station in West Berlin.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

And said, Hey, I am a KGB assassin.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Defecting.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

I I want amnesty or whatever, whatever, whatever the words are, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:55

So Stashinski identified himself as a Soviet intelligence officer and asked the police to contact the Americans. Then he became began telling him who he was.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

That same day, August 12th, 1961, that same day, East German leader Walter Ulbricht authorized the final measures to close the borders around West Berlin. So he j literally just got out. Same day.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Holy fuck.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Now the wall wasn't being built that day.

SPEAKER_04 54:31

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

But the barriers were in place that day.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

I'm gonna get this wrong. But I feel like the walls weren't built for a few years later.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

I didn't look that up. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

Yeah, but but just recollection. I I literally just listened to something, I don't remember what the fuck it was off the top of my head, about when that was built, if you will. It was in the 60s, if I'm not mistaken, but it was later than this. Maybe that is fucking wild. It's like, hey, that was we got out in time kind of bull. Jesus Christ, that's wild. They happen to be the same fucking day. That's crazy. They had crossed only hours before. Right. Could you imagine, like I don't want to say a rain delay, just I'm just being funny when I say that, but it's like, yeah, we'll go to rain.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Well, if you recall, he was there for Peter's funeral. Yes. And had they waited until after the funeral, because in fact they went before the funeral, if they had waited after the funeral, they would not have been able to escape.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

That's fucking crazy. What fucking time? And it's not like they knew that was gonna happen. That's just wow. That's wow.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Now Stashinski had to convince Western intelligence officers that the story he was about to tell them was true.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Was was real, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

So after reaching the West, Stashinski surrendered himself and began talking to Western authorities.

Confession And Western Verification

SPEAKER_02 56:05

When uh he had said he had been recruited by Soviet state security in Western Ukraine, trained as an operative, sent into Germany, and assassinated political exiles.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Stashinski said the KGB had given him sp specially designed weapons that sprayed cyanide into people's faces. He said he had killed Lev Rabbit in 1957. Yep. But of course, the claim alone created a problem because, as far as anyone knew, Lev Rabbit died of heart failure.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

Yeah, but that's only because the doctors were were shite at that time because it's they won off the information they had.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

And but and Stashinski said that was the point.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

That was exactly the point.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

That was what we were going for.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

He uh described following Rabbit into his office building, um, passing out on the staircase, firing the poison, da la da. He explained how the weapon worked, how we disposed of it. Then he had he said he had done essentially the same thing to Stephen Bendera in 1959 with a double-barreled weapon. So Western intelligence officials initially treated him cautiously because they're like, this guy's a little unstable.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Can can you blame them for like being like a little like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude. Let's let's take a step back here. You can't fault them for that because they're like, is this guy a psychopath? Right. Or is he telling the truth? We're gonna err on the side of psychopath first until we can corroborate these these these claims, basically.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

So the Germans began checking out his story in detail. Stashinsky would describe locations, how he could explain victims' movements. Yep, he knew details of the attacks that hadn't been publicly um established.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

And investigators took him back to the murder scenes in Munich where he reconstructed the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

I was here, he was there, I was there, he went there, we walked, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh fuck, this guy's probably telling the truth here.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Now the authorities were believing him. Yes. They believed him. Wow. Yes. That's wild. So this still created an awkward diplomatic solution uh situation. Sure. Stashsky wasn't claiming that he had decided to do this murder on his own. No. The Soviet government had ordered him to do it. So that comes up again.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

I would imagine so. He's a hitman.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Stashinski's confession threatened to expose something much larger than two murders. Right. The Soviet Union maintained diplomatic relations with West Germany. Right. According to Stashinski, Soviet state security had been sending an assassin into West Germany territory to kill political opponents. I mean, he did it. It was a state-directed assassination. Yep. The Soviet bloc responded with denials.

SPEAKER_04 59:08

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're telling me they didn't say we're caught. You're right. My bad.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Propaganda efforts attempted to shift blame for Bandera's dealth death elsewhere, including towards rival Ukrainians and West German figures.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Of course they tried to do that.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

The accusations could become elaborate because Bandera's history provided plenty of material for conspiracy theories.

Trial And Chain Of Command Guilt

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Right. He had enemies in Ukraine, in Poland, in the Soviet Union. Yep. And Stashinski's confession did cut through a lot of that speculation. By 1962, West German prosecutors were ready to put him on trial.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Here's where the story takes another turn.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

There was never any mystery that Stashinski killed them.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Duh, he admitted that. Yep. What was much harder was how German law should treat a man who committed murder because a government intelligence agency ordered him to do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:17

These are weird fucking circumstances. However, he's like, alright, who do I gotta kill? And did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

So what do you think about the Nazis then? Because they were ordered by the state to kill thousand hundreds of thousands of people. Where does the line go?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:39

I just heard I don't fucking remember what it was from, but it was something fucking ridiculous from some whatever. Anyways. You're right, you're right. It's like I was just taking orders. And honestly, a lot of Nazis were literally just taking orders. And they carried out horrific things under orders. Because you know what would have happened to them if they didn't carry out those orders? They would have been probably killed, most likely.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Okay, let me finish up.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

Stashinski went on trial before the federal court in October of 1962.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

The proceedings attracted international attention. His testimony effectively put the KGB's assassination program on trial alongside him.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Stashinski described his recruitment, the weapons, da. He didn't deny pulling any triggers. The central legal argument was focused on responsibility. Yeah. The prosecution in court had to consider the difference between the person who physically carried out a killing and the people who planned it, ordered it, supplied it, selected the target, and sent the assassination into the country.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

Stashinsky's defense emphasized the control Soviet intelligence had exercised over him and his eventual decision to defect and confess.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Although Stashinsky had personally killed both men, the judges treated him as an accessory to murder rather than the principal murderer. In their reasoning, the primary perpetrators were the officials who had conceived and ordered the assassinations from Moscow. But that did not make Stashinsky innocent. He had opportunities that he could refuse during the first years of his intelligence career. He could have walked away. At the same time, the court considered his position within the system that had recruited him young, pressured him through his family, trained him, controlled much of his life, and ultimately ordered him to kill.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

In October of 1962, the court sentenced Dashinski to eight years in prison. Okay. All right. Obviously, the judgment was controversial from the beginning. Critics argued that a person who knowingly walks up to two people and deliberately kills them should be considered a murderer regardless of who gave the order. The court, however, wanted the legal responsibility to extend upward. The judges regarded the Soviet officials who ordered the killings as the true architects of the crime. The case became significant in West Germany's legal history because of the reasoning that could be applied beyond Soviet intelligence. Germany was still struggling with the legal consequences of crimes committed under the Nazi regime, including the question of how to distinguish between people who gave criminal orders and subordinates who carried them out. Stashinski's case therefore touched a much, much larger problem. When someone commits a crime on behalf of a state, how far up the chain of command does responsibility travel, and how far down does personal responsibility remain? There still is no answer for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

And there never will be because most of the time they're like, We we we didn't do that. That's that was that person. They throw him under the bus because you think the government wants people to know that, like, hey, we sent this, and they're like, No, he didn't. That fucking dude's crazy for saying that. And let's put him in a psych ward because we wouldn't do that. We're for the people. Every fucking government, including our own, I'm sure has done this.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

So Stashinski didn't have to serve his full year sentence, eight year sentence. He

Release And Disappearance

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

was released early on December 31st, 1966, after serving a little more than four years. Okay. Then Bodanst Stashinski essentially disappeared from public view.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

Did he meet up with his wife?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

There have been claims that Western German intelligence helped give him a new identity.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Good.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

Other accounts have placed him in different countries, including South Africa. Oh, really? Various writers and researchers have tried to reconstruct what happened to him and Inga after his release, but the public records become much less certain than it was during the years when the KGB was keeping files on him comp continuously.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:27

Complete files. So you're telling me we don't know what happened with their kid?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Their kid, no. Some later reports suggest that Stashinsky and Inga remained together for at least part of their post-prison life while other details about his eventual whereabouts have remained deliberately obscured. Sure. By the time he left prison, Stashinsky had managed to make himself unpopular with almost everyone involved. Ukrainian nationalists knew him as the man who the man who murdered the two men. The Soviet knew him, the Soviets knew him as an intelligence officer who defected. Western intelligence services knew he possessed information valuable enough that keeping him out of sight probably wasn't a terrible idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

True.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

And Stashinski himself have every reason to stop being Bodin Stashinsky in public. The man who had spent much of his adult life using false identities may simply have acquired one more. That is the story of Bodin Stashinsky.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:28

Could you blame him for doing that? No. I kind of want to go ask Lyle. What's his real name? It's my neighbor. I'm kidding, he's not Bodan Stashinsky. Do you remember what year he was born? I I I know you told me. It was like 1931. 1931. It was 30. Okay, so he I mean, fuck, he would be 95 today. Do you know when he passed or did you not come across it?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

He disappeared.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:59

Well, yeah, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

He disappeared. We have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

That's a good point. I hope. This is my hope. I hope he disappeared with Inga. They lived a good life. Yeah. And they raised their kid.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

A new kid? Another kid?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:16

Oh no, that's right. Peter died. That fucking Peter died. Here's my hope. They go on and honor their kid. Fuck, I forgot he died.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:27

Well.

Final Thoughts And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_04 1:07:30

Alright, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:44

Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at HistoryBuffoons Podcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

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SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

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SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

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