School Bus Yacht: Shipwreck of the Migonette

Welcome, House Ghosts, And Setup

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

I'm I'm Kate.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

And I'm I'm Bradley. This is the history of Buffalo. Yes, it is. We were just talking about how many people might have died in my house.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Because he just said it's his house is two years away from being 190 years old.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Diam. Diom. And that's why it is so warm in here.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Yeah, because we're in the servants' quarters, which is also called the podloft. Also called the guest room. And I'm pretty sure people perished here.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

God damn.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Maybe not in a nefarious. Alright, you need to cut that shit off. Sorry. Maybe not in a nefarious way and all, but there's probably a good chance that people have moved on. We'll just say that. Wow, that got dark. Do you have an uplifting story you're gonna teach me today? Um no. Is this gonna be depressing and sad? Like 95% of these? No. Or am I gonna get pissed off? No.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

You might have you're gonna have opinions, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

I always do.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Um it's not a sad story, but it's n well What are you gonna teach me? Okay, we're gonna talk about um a shipwreck. Oh called called the meinuet. Minuet.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Minuet.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Okay.

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And the captain who survived returned home and stood trial for murder.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I thought the captain was supposed to go down with the ship.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

Let's get into it, shall we?

Beer Picks And Yacht Basics

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Alright, so we got beer. Shit balls. Shit balls. So I found a variety pack because a lot of times when we look for our podcast beers, we oh wow, she's going straight to town.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

I have a tickle.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

A tickle. A lot of times when we find pot or we look for podcast beers, I should say. Uh we we look for a variety pack that would accommodate both of us because I do like more IPAs, she is not, she's more logger, I am not. So we try to find some that well accommodate all. And I think I did that this time. Uh so we have Alagash. And this is from Maine, right? Yes, it was from Maine. From Maine, where my my oldest brother currently resides. However, he is moving back to Wisconsin. So welcome back, Ryan. Anyway, um, so we have an Alagash lager, and then she and I both have oh, I shouldn't have put these so far away. Alagash White.

SPEAKER_05 3:01

White. It's a Belgian-style wheat beer.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Oh, please.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Oh dear.

unknown 3:07

I know.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

And then I have the other two, and I'm gonna drink these in terms of ABV. So the first one, what did we just determine? That was that was five percent. Um, that is, yep, five percent, and then the Belgian is five point two, and then they have a hazy IPA, which is six point seven, and then they have a Belgian-style ale, uh a triple, terror, which is nine perl. So if you add it all up, you get fucked.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

Uh and that's why that one is your last.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

That's my last one. If I even make it to that, and I have a uh the remainder of my so a lot of times when I set up our podcast, I have a podcast setup beer. So I have uh the remainder of my summer shandy to cleanse my palate between each beer. Oh, she's already been going to town on this.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

So my tickle is subsided. So my tickle. My tickle.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

All right. Well, I'm glad your throat tickle is gone. Yeah, it's it's for now.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

It's good.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Have a sip. It definitely smells like a lager.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

That's good. I like it.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Crisp, refreshing. I mean balance.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

That's pretty much what it says on the book.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

I forgot the balance part.

SPEAKER_05 4:20

Okay, so yes. When you think of yacht, what do you think of?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yacht rock.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

What is that?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

I don't know. It's a style of music.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

I don't really understand why they call it yacht rock. Okay. Uh, when I think of yacht, I think of a yacht.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

What what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

A giant boat? A really rich person's boat.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

A really rich person's boat. Yeah, I mean maybe multiple decks, lots of windows, maybe a hot tub.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

I think of um I just lost the name of the movie. Kate Hudson, Matthew McConaughey. They're in the Caribbean. Yeah, thank you. Jesus. With uh um older Sutherland, Donald Donald? Fuck. Old Mr. Sutherland.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Oh, it's Donald Sutherland. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

I'm like, I second guess his name now, too. It's a cheesy movie, but I like that movie. I've never seen it. Matthew McConaughey is great in it. But um Kate Hudson works on Donald Sutherland's yacht. Oh, okay. In in that movie, and you know, they have a whole cooking crew and everything, and it's wild. So I think of yachts being a really rich person's thang.

SPEAKER_05 5:31

Well, uh the Mionette yacht.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

How do you spell that?

SPEAKER_05 5:36

It's like French.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Oh. So it's M I G. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

N-O-N-E-T-T-E. Mionette.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Mignonet.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

Pretty much. But it was nothing like this, and it was so considered a yacht.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

So what time are we talking about? We are talking about 1800 hundreds.

SPEAKER_05 6:01

Let me continue.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Do you come across a year? I do. Okay, thank goodness. Because that was a weird let just let it lie.

SPEAKER_05 6:10

It was like 1870s, maybe. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Oh, my house is older than that.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

1880s.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

1880s. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Anyways, let's go.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

So the meal net measured about 52 feet from bow to stern.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Is that a pretty good size yacht?

SPEAKER_05 6:27

No, it's small. Is it? A school bus is about set 40 feet.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Oh, oh. Wow, that's not very big at all then. I mean, I know that's another 10, 12 feet, whatever, but that's not very big at all.

SPEAKER_05 6:42

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

What was the width?

SPEAKER_05 6:47

I really wanted as it's not part of my reclaim, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:51

I really want to throw something at you right now.

SPEAKER_05 6:54

So she had originally been built in England in 1867 as a pleasure yacht. Okay. And it was intended for short short coastal trips. Sure, which makes sense. Exactly. And it would just be like a comfortable afternoon sailing before heading back to port, right? Nothing big.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Yeah. Leisure cruise.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

Crossing half the globe was not what she was intended to do.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

No, not I can't imagine it was if it's only a little bit bigger than a school bus. You're not going to take that across the Atlantic. Nope. That sounds like a terrible idea.

SPEAKER_05 7:29

And yet they do.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Oh.

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On a vessel this size, every person mattered. Of course. For this yacht, the lucky number was four.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

So there was oh four, including the main guy who nope, just four. Oh, wait, what?

SPEAKER_05 7:47

The captain plus three others.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

I get that.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

There's four people.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Oh, not including the that's the crew. Not the people that go. I'm confused at what you're telling me.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

The yacht has a crew of four.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah. And was there anyone else on okay?

SPEAKER_05 8:07

No.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

You say that like I should have fucking known that.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

You don't cut me up with these questions.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

You don't even know how wide it is, and I'm supposed to know there's only four people on this fucking thing.

SPEAKER_05 8:17

I told you the lucky number was four.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

So he murdered three people, is what they say? No. What the fuck? Let's keep keep going. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Um, so if heavy weather um damaged a sail or snapped a line, all four of these people need to be all hands on deck. If someone gets gets sick, the other three have to have to pick up the slack, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Obviously.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Right. So everyone ex was expected to climb the rigging and handle the sails and keep watch while the yacht was moving toward Australia. A wealthy what?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Nothing. Go on.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

This is my second Australian story in a row. Yeah. Yeah. They don't make it, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Spoiler alert. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

I said there was a shipwreck. Yeah, it's way to give away the fucking So a wealthy Australian lawyer and politician named John Henry Want had purchased the Mionette while visiting England. Now he lived in Sydney and wanted his new yacht waiting for him back home.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 9:31

Today that wouldn't be much of a challenge. A modern shipping company would lift the yacht onto a specialized cargo vessel, secure it to the deck and unload it like a week later on the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

In 1884, things a bit different. A little different.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Yeah. I mean, they they still had sales.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

Exactly. If you bought a yacht in England and wanted it out in Australia, someone had to sail it there.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

That's usually, yeah, that's pretty much the only way.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Yes. And this trip was about 15,000 miles. That's about this little 80 bitty yacht.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

That seems like a lot for a little guy.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

Yeah. So the route itself was daunting.

The Route To Australia

SPEAKER_05 10:15

So there is the Sue Sue Suez Canal.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

You got there.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

Do you know of the Suez Canal?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

I'm not intimately, but I've heard of it. I've never heard of it. You've never heard of the Suez Canal? I don't think so. Oh man, you are not world-traveled. Neither am I. Anyways, do you know what I have a problem with right now? Is the fact that you brought up a school bus and then a yacht. So instead of school bus rock, I think a school bus yacht. And I can't get that out of my head. Schoolhouse rock, right? Yeah, but I but I changed it to school bus because I know it's schoolhouse rock. Then you said school bus, school bus yacht.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

Okay, so the Suez Canal was opened 15 years earlier.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

And it wasn't, it still wasn't considered a practical route for many sailing vessels.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

So are you gonna give us some information on where the Suez Canal is for people who might not know, like yourself?

SPEAKER_05 11:19

Yes, so it is an artificial sea level waterway in Egypt, and it connects the Mediterranean Sea to the Red Sea, right, which divides Africa and Asia.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

And I didn't know that. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Now you're knowing knowing's half the battle.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

I know, so cool. So instead, most ships um most ships sail bound for Australia, right? Would still travel south through the Atlantic and then around the the um Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of tip of Africa.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

South Africa.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

And then they would yeah, and then they would cross the Indian Ocean, finally reaching Sydney.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Well, that's why you have a lot of British ties to South Africa, because that was the route they took. Yeah. So they would stop there and they created a colony there as well. It's amazing how far the British went.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

For such a small country. First, for the island they were just like, yeah, we're gonna pretty much conquer like the known world.

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

And then, oh hey, there's something over there. Let's go get that.

SPEAKER_05 12:25

Yeah. So it was one of the longest and most demanding sea voyages in the world. The Cape of Good Hope had earned a reputation for violent weather long before the Mionette ever left England. Sure. So powerful currents from the Atlantic and the Indian Oceans collided there, and that would create unpredictable seas. Okay, sure. So, even so, the captain, Thomas Dudley, had every reason to believe that he could complete this voyage. He was an experienced seaman. Um, another um officer named Edwin Stevens had spent years at sea as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Excuse me. And then there was Edmund Brooks, who was also a capable sailor who knew his job well. And the fourth man was a 17-year-old cabin boy named Richard Parker.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

And despite his lack of experience, he still settled really nicely into the daily routine. And the captain kind of took him under his wing and really nice. Right? Good. So during the first several weeks, the voyage was almost an uneventful. Um watched watches would change every four hours, uh, sails were adjusted, uh, meals were cooked in the tiny little galley, and um, every sunrise obviously got them a little bit closer to England. Yeah. Nope. From England. If anyone aboard worried about the Mionette, worried that the Mionette might be too small for the trip, no one really talked talked about it.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

So maybe, I mean, hard to say. Obviously, this happened in 1880, whatever, but maybe they're just like, well, we're just here to do our job. Don't don't bring it up.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

Yeah, I mean, sailors had all kinds of superstition, so like, yeah, we don't talk about how small this little vessel is. No, yeah, that makes that could make sense. But after all, uh, plenty of ships rounded the Cape every year. The weather could be rough, but rough weather was just part of the profession.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:25

And you you would experience heavy seas and strong winds, okay?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

I thought I had to sneeze and then I yawned.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

It was the weirdest thing. Just don't burp too. That'd be weird.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

I'm good.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

You expected like a few miserable days when everything like um aboard was like soaked, and everyone wondered why you hadn't chosen a different career. But in July, the weather gradually became more demanding. The swells grew larger, lifting the mu net high above the before like dropping her into the like the valleys, that would just freak me out.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

That would yeah, I don't I don't think I'd be a fan of that. You ever see the the movie The Perfect Star? Oh, yes, I hear. Or like oh, screw that. No, I I no thank you.

SPEAKER_05 15:14

Yeah, no, thank you. Although I would watch that movie again.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

I do like that movie. I saw that in the theater.

SPEAKER_05 15:19

Yeah, it's really good.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Good stuff. George Cloney, am I right?

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Absolutely. Diane Lane, am I right? So stronger winds whistled through the rigging, and the little yacht pitched and rolled a little bit more dramatically than she had in the earlier in the voyage. Yeah, and of course, none of that was like particularly unusual to these experienced sailors. They were approaching the the Cape of Good Hope, and this was exactly the kind of like weather and sea that they had expected.

Rogue Wave And The Sinking

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Sure. Then on July 5th, 1884, without much warning, oh boy, an enormous wave crashed into the Mionet.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Did it do some damage?

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Whether it was what we would now call a rogue wave or simply an exceptionally large swell, we're not sure. Sure. But the effect was immediate. Um, I'm I'm can imagine. Yeah. The impact poured water into the hole so quickly that Captain Dudley understood instantly that there was zero chancing saving her, like just right then.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

The hey, boys were fucked. Let's go. Yep. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

So the uh crew abandoned any thought of repairing the damage and turned their attention to the only thing that mattered getting off the yacht before it disappeared. Did they did they have a um a dinghy or anything? They did, yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly that, a dinghy. Um, so the crew tried to save far more than they actually ended up with.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

Um, an emergency supply of fresh water was thrown overboard, um, beside the dinghy that they also threw overboard with the intention of pulling it aboard once everyone was clear of the sinking yacht. Sure. Um, but before anyone could reach it, however, the wave swept it away.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Of course.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

So, in just a few moments, the one thing that would have mattered the most in the salty seas was gone.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

How how far were they off the coast? Do you have any idea?

SPEAKER_05 17:16

I don't when this happened. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

I don't know. That's all right.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

Um, Captain Dudley did manage to grab a few items before jumping into the dinghy. He recovered a sextant, a handful of other um navigational instruments, and two one-pound tins that he thought was preserved meat.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Oh, well, so what was it?

SPEAKER_05 17:38

It was preserved tune turnips. Oh. I know. How sad.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

And only two cans of turnips.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Turnips more like turned downs. Everything's terrible.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

Yeah, everything else disappeared with the Mionette after five minutes.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

That's all it took to sink.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

All it took for the Mionette to sink was five minutes.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Now, are they getting this information from Dudley from when he gets back? Yes. Basically. Okay. Yes. And I only mentioned him because a murder.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

Well, that's the only one I mentioned.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

I know. But well, you mentioned the others.

SPEAKER_05 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

But you said he is tried for murder.

SPEAKER_05 18:17

Yeah, he was. So for the few first few minutes after Mionette um disappeared, nobody spoke.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

They're all like, I mean, could you um what do we do? What do we do? Could you imagine the first thing that would go through your brain?

SPEAKER_04 18:34

No, because I would not be in that situation to start with. Well, touche, but let's put you there.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

All right, Kate. You're on a boat. It's going down, you're hopping the dinghy. Do I have a life fest? No, it's 1880, whatever. I don't think they even know what those were. I mean, maybe, but what was what would be the first thing you would say? I would probably start crying. Yeah, I could see that. I think I would just sit there and look at it and go, fuck. Now what?

SPEAKER_05 19:12

That was that was our paycheck boys.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Well, and I don't remember the guy's name who purchased it and who Want.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

His name was Want.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Did they ever find him wanting? Think of a night's tale. Anyways.

SPEAKER_05 19:27

I I did try to find if he was ever reimbursed, and there's really no documents that say what he was.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I wonder if they had like boat insurance back then. You know, like, hey, I I bought this boat, I'm paying you to to get it to me in Australia. And uh just in case, here's you know, uh a policy that I took out.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Yeah, there's no documentation about any of that. I wonder if they had anything like that. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 19:53

So a few moments earlier, they had just been standing on this yacht with Australia as their destination. They were actually all headed to Australia hoping that that this was actually gonna end up being their new home. Oh, like they were all like willing to do this trip to get to Australia for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Oh wow. So did did you come across did any of these people have like families? I mean, I'm sure they had Australia. Not that I recall sports, but not like okay, I suppose especially the young kid, he's like, I'm gonna go see the world pops up.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

Yeah, pretty much out homie. So now they're sitting shoulder to shoulder in like a 13-foot open dinghy watching their ship go beneath them. Captain Thomas Dudley's suck. Yeah. Um, Captain Thomas Dudley's first concern wasn't that they were drifting or anything. Um, it was figuring out what they had to work with. Turnips and no water. Pretty much. There was no fishing lines, no emergency food stores, no flares, no fresh water. Considering that they had escaped with their lives only minutes earlier, it was difficult to even call that a success, but that was pretty much all they had. Right. So food was certainly important, but experienced sailors knew that water was the actual problem.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

100%. You you can go days, actually weeks without food. You can't go more than what three?

SPEAKER_05 21:21

I think three days.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Is it three? I think so.

SPEAKER_05 21:24

Three weeks without food, three days without water.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

That sounds right.

SPEAKER_05 21:27

Why am I not dead yet?

SPEAKER_03 21:32

90% water.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Bia.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Australian water.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Australian.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

I'm gonna try the the Belgian cell wheat bia. God damn it.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

I even turned it on silent.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

You understand it's my pill alarm. You understand that alarms supersede silent, right?

SPEAKER_05 21:58

I guess so.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I'm gonna have to get up and go turn that off aren't I? Hold please. He's mad. I'd like to say something real quick. And point out. And yes, there is maybe a reason for it, but it's still true. My phone has never gone off during the middle of podcast. You want to know why? Because Kate's being recorded with it right now.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Oh Jesus Christ.

Adrift With Turnips And No Water

SPEAKER_05 22:33

Like we said, you can go several weeks without food and only like three days without water, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Three and three, it sounds right. Three days water, three weeks. Something like that, give or take, whatever. I know I'd be fucking hungry, but obviously your body can't function without being hydrated. Yeah. Because what's the percent of us that's water? It's 70%. Is that what it is? So I mean that's pretty fucking high. And when you don't have sun to replenish it, holy balls, you are fucked. Yeah. And you can't drink that salt water because that's going to make it even worse.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Exactly. So they're surrounded by blazing sun, salt spray, and your body can begin failing really quickly. The turnips might keep hunger away a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

I think I'd rather go hungry.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

Nothing is going to go yeah nothing is going to salt their thirst. No. So the cre crew agreed almost immediately that if they wanted any chance of making it home they would have to like really salvage their food.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Um so salvage their food? Ration.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

That's the word so rather than opening both tins at once they divided the turnips into like daily portions. At first it there was every reason to believe that they are going to be saved like really quickly. The Mionette had just sunk along a route that was regularly shipping lane or whatever they call that.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 23:58

And that's used between Europe, Africa and Australia. So the survivors didn't know exactly where the currents were taking them.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

But surely another ship would eventually pass close enough to spot four men in a boat.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Oh you would think so you would think right I mean they waited oh dear and then they waited.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

Someone scan would scan the horizon while the other searched in other directions hoping to catch sight of a sail more than once like a distant cloud or a wave would look like a ship and of course the illusion would disappear. Can I ask a question?

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah. You said one of them would search the horizon and then the other ones would look in different directions.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

Yeah they would all just look in different directions isn't it the whole horizon though?

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Shut up. It's not like that section over there is only the horizon and this is whatever. Hey I didn't say I wrote well okay so because I'm like I don't no no ships up there I just wanted some clarification in case I did not know something.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

So just when it seemed like the boat had like nothing left to offer a sea turtle swam by. He's like what's up guys and it was close enough for the men to grab oh poor turtle. Yeah they have turtle soup that night they had turtle blood oh gross oh yeah they drank the blood for the hydration and they ate what they could I mean it's not like you can start a fire on the dinghy so no what could they eat raw turtle?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Gross that sounds fucking terrible. Yeah all right yeah okay what color is their blood red I would imagine just curious.

SPEAKER_05 25:54

Okay so on unfortunately the turtle didn't last long four starving men can consume a good amount of food but you can't survive without water. Not even especially when you're drinking blood lord rain became increasingly scarce of course whenever dark clouds appeared the crew the crew did everything they could to catch the rain. They stretched up their clothing um used whatever containers they had like the turnip pit tins or whatever yeah and drink immediately because they actually they had no way to store it as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Well yeah it's not like it's going to sit in there so you might as well drink it right away.

SPEAKER_05 26:36

So some days they collected enough to help other days there wasn't a single drop. Jeez. As the days were on thirst became far worse than hunger as we just kind of discussed. So most survival experts will tell you that starvation is miserable but dehydration is torture.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Your mouth dries out until swallowing becomes painful then your lips crack your tongue begins to swell headaches become constant and the cruelest part was that the men were surrounded by water every minute of every day.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Isn't that just fucking wild that you're around you're literally touch it. Yep. And it's like can't drink it though. And isn't that why like a lot of people who are stranded like that kind of go mad because then they start drinking the water because their brain just can't differentiate what it is anymore or something like that. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_05 27:32

So Captain Dudley Edwin Stevens and Edmund Brooks all understood why they can't drink it. They're all seasoned sailors uh every experienced sailor knew that drinking seawater would make things worse. So the kid didn't know that yeah he did oh the salt contr concentration is so high that your kidneys cannot process it without using even more water from your own body.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Right. So it makes you constantly want to have it then it's really really bad for you.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Yeah so instead of relieving the dehydration it increases it it increases it. Yeah. Yes. Richard Parker either didn't fully appreciate the danger or he just ignored or he simply reached the point where the risk no longer mattered to him. Sure. So he's 17 years old he's exhausted terrified and so thirsty that every instinct in your body is like screaming at you to drink the water that's literally inches from your face.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

And at some point what I heard was in the dark of night he snuck seawater. Oh and he drank it so he's like they're sleeping oh fucking hell dude and of course after a very brief moment of relief his he started getting worr uh sick and and even more thirsty even more thirsty. Oh dear he became violently ill he would drift in and out of consciousness over the next couple of days and eventually he would lay motionless at the bottom of the boat. The older safe uh sailors would watch helplessly as their younger crew member faded right before their eyes there was nothing that they could do to help him they had no medicine no food left to offer and not even enough fresh water to like ease his suffering.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

No.

SPEAKER_05 29:28

As Parker grew weaker another change um began taking place in the minds of the other three sailors they got they got some food coming for nearly three weeks every decision they had made had been based on the assumption that rescue was still possible. Jesus now for the first time Captain Dudley began wondering what would happen if rescue never came well right so by the morning of July 24th 1884 the four survivors had been drifting across the South Atlantic for nearly three weeks.

Parker Collapses And Hard Choices

SPEAKER_05 30:03

At that point the days were blending in together they were no longer measuring time as by by sunlight and darkness. Instead they were measuring it by who was still sitting upright who was conscious and whether the horizon looked empty or full or whatever. Every sunrise month they had somehow survived another night but also uh brought the same realization that no one had found them yet. Yep by sunset they knew that they would have to endure another night in the cramped dinghy with almost nothing left to eat or drink.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

And Richard Parker had now become the focus of everyone's attention.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Well yeah because he's a food source.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

Cannibalism the 17 year old had grown dangerously ill and was spending most of his time lying at the bottom of the boat. He drifted in and out of consciousness spoke very little and was no longer to help with any of the work required to keep the dinghy afloat.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:01

I did read something that um when they all first got into the boat there was a hole in it.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

So they've been like trying to constantly make sure that that's kept in check. Yeah. And of course the other men knew that Parker was dying. So Captain Thomas Dudley later admitted that he had begun watching the boy closely and thinking about what his death might mean for the others. Sure. If Parker was already going to die Dudley wondered did it make sense to wait for that to happen naturally or to expedite this scenario. Or would waiting simply leave all four men too weak to survive.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:43

So it was a question to consider from the safety of dry land where food and water are within reach. Inside that lifeboat however it had stopped feeling like some philosophical question. Dudley believed that he was trying to decide whether anyone would make it home alive. For several days he had been discussing what sailors sometimes called quote custom of the sea. Okay. According to this supposed tradition shipwrecked sailors who had exhausted every other option might draw lots to determine who would be sacrificed so that the others could survive. That's wild. Historians still debate how widespread that custom really was there were um documented cases of shipwrecked survivors drawing lots okay but it was never an official like maritime rule and it certainly was not accepted without controversy. Well yeah because you're talking about eating somebody so even sailors who believed such a custom existed generally understood it as an outlast resort. God I would hope so yes something considered only when every hope of rescue was had disappeared.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Which one do you want to be dinner tonight? Yeah. And hopefully for the next few days.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

But the difference is drawing lots is everybody's in on correct the situation.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Not like this where well he's the weakest of the four so let's just do him in so the three of us can. But again it's like what are they going to drink his blood to yes Krauss I mean that's not going to fix your thirst it's going to help.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

I guess but I think I think your plasma is mostly water too.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

No it is I'm aware of that but okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:41

Yeah. So the idea for this came up on the dinghy more than once but the men never carried it out. Sure. No names are placed in a hat no no straws were you know picked or whatever. And Richard of course Richard Parker the kid was never giving any chance to participate in this discussion. Well because he's half unconscious or mostly unconscious whatever so yeah so Edmund Brooks said that he opposed killing anyone and wanted the group to continue waiting. Edwin Stevens appeared to have been more willing to consider Dudley's plan although he also hesitated.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

The men were all facing the same starvation and dehydration but they had reached different conclusions about what those circumstances allowed them to do.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Right. No, makes sense.

The Killing And Cannibalism

SPEAKER_05 34:30

On the morning of July 25th Dudley decided he did not want to wait any longer.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

Their surviving accounts differ slightly in their wording but basically the sequence of events was that Dudley offered a prayer first then moved towards Parker. Kind of him then he moved towards Parker who was lying helpless at the bottom of the boat according to later testimony who told the boy that his time had come before he took a pen knife and cut his throat oh dear. Of course Parker died shortly after.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

Stevens was present and supported the decision Brooks remained in the boat obviously but did not assist with the killing.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 35:12

But he also did not physically intervene either something that would later place him in a weird uncomfortable position about of both being a survivor and the prosecution's most important witness so more than Dudley survived Dudley surviv the captain survived yeah. That's the only one no that's what I just said the three of them survived yeah right okay yep so there is no evidence that the men celebrated or treated Parker's death casually whatever relief that they felt at having food was what mixed with the knowledge that they had deliberately killed the youngest and weakest person in the boat. Right. They had made a choice that they could never undo and even if it saved their lives they would eventually have to explain it. Oh of course the three survivors used Parker's blood to relieve their thirst and consume parts of his body over the following days um it obviously a dark detail but leaving it out would kind of soften the reality of what actually happened with him. Dudley, Stevens and Brooks believed Parker's body was the only remaining source of nourishment available to them. That's wild. And by that point they were convinced that eating him was the difference between survival and death I mean cannibalism's wrong on so many levels obviously but like let's take that away from it for a second.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

It's like okay you have this body now you have some meat the muscle how do you you just eat it raw? Wow I mean it's not again you can't start a fire on this boat. You're gonna burn your boat down. That's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_05 36:58

Alright anyways carry on so at the time of Parker's death the men had no idea how close they were to being rescued.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Probably pretty close.

SPEAKER_05 37:12

Over the next few days the food gave them a small amount of renewed strength um they still had no control over where they were drifting and there was no reason to believe any other ship would suddenly appear after so many empty days.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Just not to make light of Parker's death and all but I just feel like in like uh Pirates of the Caribbean where he pops out of the the the coffin and uses the guy's leg as a they got two legs so on the morning of July twenty ninth so four days after Parker was killed

Rescue And Telling The Truth

SPEAKER_03 37:50

there was a ship.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Of course there was yes it was a German bark bark? Like was it? Um B-A-R-Q-U-E. Yeah it was just like a big masted ship.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Um a German bark called the Montezuma.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Did it have its revenge?

SPEAKER_05 38:11

The vessel happened across the path of the drifting dinghy and once it the crew spotted the survivors the rescue was actually pretty quick and straightforward.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Did they just toss Parker's body over or you know I didn't read that.

SPEAKER_05 38:27

If they did or if they brought him aboard like I I don't it was four days though.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

See and that's the thing four days they clearly were eating him yeah I mean I'm sure the blood didn't last very long yeah um I didn't read if they like put him overboard or what's like hey uh do you mind if I bring my dinner aboard? Wait what what uh Spreckensee Deutsch? I mean what you know it's like Spreckens Deutsch I mean wait nine anyways so Dudley Stevens and Brooks were brought aboard they were given food and water and cared for oh boy could you imagine how great that first sip of water real water like hey man this is way better than Parker's blood you know what sucks is that they put they could probably couldn't chug it.

SPEAKER_05 39:22

No because they would just start vomiting. Yeah but that first sip would be like fucking magical they were on the sea for 24 days that's how long they were lost yes okay yeah wow so from their perspective the nightmare was over they had survived the sinking of the Mionette weeks of hunger and thirst and then excuse me of course the killing of Parker yeah the men made very little effort to conceal what actually happened oh really captain Captain Dudley openly described Parker's death and the cannibalism that followed apparently believing the other sailors and the British public would understand the circumstances stories stories of survival cannibalism were disturbing but they were not unknown oh no of course and Dudley seems to think seems to have expected sympathy rather than prosecution so by the time the men returned to England the story did begin spreading do you have the route that they made it back how they made it back to England no it's not like this German ship went to Germany and then they got on some carriages or some shit no I didn't look into them. Newspapers reported the details and the public quickly divided over whether their survivors should be treated as victims criminals or somehow both right and many people did sympathize with them. They saw three men who had been pushed to the absolute limits of human endurance and forced to choose between one death and four.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

You can't I'm not saying what they did is correct or that they should have gone through with it but you can understand at least logically how they got there. Yeah because they thought they were going to die. Yeah the three stronger of the four group well the group of four I should say well he's he's on his way out man do we all want to die or does you know does one death justify blah blah blah yeah so I get it I can see how there could be sympathy for it but man that's fucked up I I'd like to think I couldn't do that but again I've I've never been in that situation.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

Yeah knock on some wood somewhere never will be but fucking hell yeah so other people focused on the fact that Richard Parker had not volunteered right no lots had been drawn and Dudley had intentionally killed a helpless 17 year old boy so whatever the circumstances they argued that was still murder so it wouldn't be manslaughter then it would be boy slaughter stop Jesus am I wrong stop officials eventually decided the question could not be left to public opinion or maritime tradition they had to like we need to have a uh trial yeah there's the word so Captain Thomas Dudley and Edwin Stevens were charged and brought excuse me brought to the courts while Edmund Brooks became a witness for the prosecution.

Murder Trial That Changed Law

SPEAKER_05 42:41

So why wasn't he not charged?

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Because he was the one that sat out however you're still there I know and you he didn't physically stop it try to interview you didn't be like dude what the fuck man yeah and again I but also Dudley's the one who did it the other guy might have been yeah let's just do this go ahead where he was opposed all three of them should have been charged not just not just the two but yeah all right so the judges would now have to ask this question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

Can someone legally kill an innocent person when they genuinely believe that doing so is the only way to save several others it's a fucked up conundrum. And this story of the Mionette is probably one of the most influential murder cases in legal history that is still being taught today in law school. So when British authorities began looking into the case they quickly realized this wasn't just a normal investigation obviously right there wasn't much mystery to solve because the men themselves have already explained what had happened. No one questioned who killed uh Richard Parker or how he died. No. The question was whether their circumstances changed the law.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 43:58

So Captain Dudley and Edward And Stevens were charged with murder.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Edmund Brooks wasn't charged because he hadn't participated in the killing and instead became, like I said, a witness for the persecution. When the trial began it began in Exeter in November of 1884, the courtroom wasn't trying to determine whether Parker had been worried, murdered. Worried.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

I'm not worried at all. I'm dead.

SPEAKER_05 44:25

Murdered. Everyone already agreed that he had. Yeah. So could murder ever become legal if it was committed to saving other lives?

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Oh, that's such a slippery slope.

SPEAKER_05 44:36

The defense argued that Richard Parker had already been dying. The crew believed rescue was impossible, and without food, they expected everyone in the boat to perish within days. Yeah. Killing one person had saved three others.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

I mean, it did.

SPEAKER_05 44:51

Mm-hmm. They were just simply arguing that it that it had been necessary. The prosecution agreed the men had suffered terribly. They simply argued that necessity couldn't become an excuse for intentionally killing an innocent person.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:09

Because what if it if it did, where is the line drawn?

SPEAKER_03 45:13

See, and that's the thing, because like even in today's standards, let's say the adults in the house, you, me and Sarah were somewhere and we got trapped. We didn't think we're gonna be safe. It's like, all right, Kate, sorry. Yeah. Sarah and I are gonna survive. You're it's like, yeah. No, you can't just do that. Because as and as and I know as basic as that sounds, it's like you don't know the outcome, obviously, but it's like there's way other options, is I guess all I'm trying to say. You can't just be like, well, we're stuck here, two of us need to survive, so you're fucked.

SPEAKER_05 45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

That that's horseshit.

SPEAKER_05 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

So no, I there's no way you can justify a murder, even if it's to save some people. In my opinion, you you you can't do that.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Yeah. I mean, it could be said, like, could doctors then sacrifice one patient if it meant meant saving others?

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Well, exactly right.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

And who decides what life is worth less than others?

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Is more important than others, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

So the judges understood that whatever answer they gave, it wouldn't just affect two sailors sitting in front of them, it would then become the law.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

So the jury wasn't eager to convict the men outright, they but they also weren't comfortable declaring them innocent.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Right.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

So instead of returning a traditional guilty or not guilty verdict, they issued what was called a special verdict. Essentially, the jury looked at the judge and said, Here are the facts, you decide what the law says. To the jury, the jury told the judge, here are the facts, now you decide as the judge.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Oh, so the judge was gonna be the final ruling, if you will. Yes. Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 47:08

So Chief Justice Lord Coleridge acknowledged how desperate the crew probably had been.

SPEAKER_04 47:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 47:15

No one doubted that they suffered beyond what most people could imagine. Of course. Even so, he concluded that necessity could never justify deliberately killing an innocent person.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Oh, fuck no.

SPEAKER_05 47:27

The law could not allow individuals to decide when another person's life had become expendable. Once you accepted that principle, there was no obvious place to stop.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 47:36

And then the judges pointed to something a little bit more ironic. The crew believed that rescue never came. And then four days later, a ship found one, found them. Yeah. But no one can say for certain whether Richard Parker would have survived those extra four days.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 47:52

He was gravely ill and may have died naturally before the Montezuma arrived, but no one on that live boat knew that on July 25th. Of course they didn't. How could they? So they made their decision based on what they believed was going to happen, not what actually happened.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Well, what they believed was going to happen at that time.

SPEAKER_05 48:11

So that uncertainty became the court's strongest argument. Right. The judges found Dudley and Stevens guilty of murder. Sure. Under English law, the mandatory sentence was death.

unknown 48:22

Death.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Death?

SPEAKER_05 48:24

Death.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

So like they took their ears away.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

Fortunately for the two sailors, almost no one believed hanging them would serve justice after everything that they had endured.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 48:35

So public sympathy remained really strong, and the crowd quickly commuted both sentences, death sentences, to just six months in prison.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

That is quite a fucking difference. Holy shit. Could you give them life in prison? You were literally talking about take their life. Alright. You know what? Killing you is a little strong. Six months.

unknown 49:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:02

We'll give you probation.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

So wait, you're telling me six months and death is the same thing? That is fucked up. Yeah. Wow. That ain't right.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

That is that is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Yeah. I mean six months or death. Same. That is fucking wild.

SPEAKER_05 49:25

So legally the court had declared them murderers.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Practically, the government acknowledged that their circumstances were unlike almost any other case in British history.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Right. Which I I get and I respect. However, that outcome is fucked.

SPEAKER_05 49:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_05 49:43

After serving their sentences, oh, and I'll have to say, um, Richard Parker had foster parents. He was an orphan.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

But from what I understand, he had great foster parents, but I'm not sure where they fit into this whole scenario.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Scenario.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

So after serving their sentences, both men returned to private life, although neither escaped the shadow of the Mionette.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

How could you?

SPEAKER_05 50:10

Um, the case itself proved to be quite a bit more enduring. It is known as R V Dudley and Stevens, and it is still taught in law schools today.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

What does the R V stand for?

SPEAKER_05 50:23

So R is um it's Rex, it's Latin, Rex, R E X, sure, which is Latin for King.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

Um, or it could be R for Regina, which is Latin for Queen, and then V is versus.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Oh, so it's a king versus Yeah. That makes more sense.

SPEAKER_05 50:42

The crown versus, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:44

So each year, new students argue over exactly the same questions that divided Victoria and Britain. Did the judge just make the right decision?

SPEAKER_02 50:51

Right.

SPEAKER_05 50:52

Should necessity ever be a defense for murder? Can something be morally understandable but still legally wrong? More than 140 years later, there still isn't a universally accepted answer. But an author, Adam Cohen, who wrote the book Captain's Dinner: A Shipwreck, an act of cannibalism, and a murder trial that changed legal history, is actually a lawyer. Sure. And though he did not learn this c case when he was in law school, his buddy or his roommate did. And that's how he came to learn of the story, and he wrote the book on this.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

So is is it like I I know it's not exactly the same, but in the same vein, maybe like self-defense. That is murder. But protecting yourself.

SPEAKER_05 51:42

Is that necessity? I would say so.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

I mean, you can look at it, and I am by no means a fucking lawyer. I know nothing of the law. I just know how to break it. And so you think about it that way, though, it's like it's it's again. It's an interesting debate. It's not the same, but it's in the same vein, more or less. It is an interesting debate because it's like, okay, well, it was in a way self-defense against death. Right?

SPEAKER_05 52:17

That would be an interesting argument. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Uh, that's fucking wild. Yeah. That is crazy.

SPEAKER_05 52:23

So then we have one little

Poe Coincidence And Dudley’s Fate

SPEAKER_05 52:25

twist.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:26

Forty-six years before Mionette ever sailed, Edgar Allan Poe published his novel, The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym on Nantucket. In it, four shipwrecked survivors became stranded at sea with almost nothing to eat. Eventually, they decided one of them has to die so the others survive. The cabin boy's name was Richard Parker.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_05 52:55

Richard Parker was a fairly common 19th-century British name. Sure. And histor historic historians generally agree that this is just a strange coincidence. Of course. But still, it's really kind of freaky.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_05 53:09

A fictional Richard Parker died in a lifeboat in 1838, and then a real Richard Parker died in a lifeboat under like the same circumstances 46 years later.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

That is messed up.

SPEAKER_05 53:22

So Captain Thomas Dudley's story didn't end, obviously, when he walked out of prison. No. Ironically, the very place he had hoped to reach before the Mionette sank eventually became his new home. Australia. He moved to Australia. He took over a sail making business that had belonged to a relative.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 53:42

And by most accounts, he built a successful new life. Most of the people who knew him in Sydney didn't see him as a captain who had become famous for the Mionette. They simply knew him as Thomas Dudley the sailmaker. In 1900, an outbreak of the bubonic plague reached Sydney's waterfront aboard infected ships.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 54:06

Dudley's business was located near the docks, putting him directly in the path of the epidemic.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 54:12

He contracted the disease and became the first recorded person in Australia to die from the plague. After surviving a shipwreck, weeks of starvation, a murder trial, and a death sentence. Thomas Dudley ultimately ultimately lost his life to an entirely different disaster on the very continent he had once dreamed of reaching. And that is the survival story and subsequent murder trial of the men aboard the Mionette.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Better check your boobons. Fucking hell, what a way to go after all of that. Everything he had to go through. Murdering a person to live, possibly. And then he dies from the bubonic plague. That sucks. Yeah. What a shitty way to go out after all that.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

So some of my um little tidbits that I have added here and there, I heard from a podcast called Um Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs podcast.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 55:18

And I saw it through YouTube, but it was it's just audio on YouTube. But um the host actually interviews the author of that book, Adam Cohen. Yeah. So I got some of those tidbits from that.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

So

“No Chance” Sayings And Farewell

SPEAKER_03 55:30

all right. So last week. Hold on. Let me get grab my computer. I don't want to knock over a can. Last episode was William Buckley. You got a Buckley's chance, right? So thought it'd be fun to go over a couple other countries similar, not exactly word for word, obviously, similar sayings. Okay. So Australia, you've got a Buckley's chance. And all these basically mean no chance in hell. No chance in hell. Similar one later, but you have no chance of surviving this, or whatever you want to say. Yeah. So Australia's you've got a buckley's chance. Russia, which this might be my favorite one, when the crayfish whistles on the mountain.

SPEAKER_05 56:20

That is so random sounding.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

And it's Russian. It's weird as fuck.

SPEAKER_05 56:26

Maybe the the English translation isn't quite.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

And that's and that's very possible. So I when I did find some of these, it did have, and I'm glad that I fixed all this because I did have in their language. I couldn't even read what the Russian one was. I'm like, that's just squiggly lines to me.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

But even like there's a Spain one in here. I I just I'm not gonna attend any of those. Anyway, so that's Russia. France is when chickens have teeth. Okay. Spain, when frogs grow hair. Hi to burp, sorry. Um Bulgaria, when my wooden clogs blossom. Like who comes up with this shit? Serbia, when grapes grow on a willow. What's going on in Serbia?

SPEAKER_05 57:25

It sounds like it's something we would say when we say when pigs fly.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Hold on. Don't jump the gun here. Italy, when donkeys fly.

SPEAKER_05 57:38

So a buckley's so like there's a no chance in hell. Doesn't sound like when pigs fly, though.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Well, pigs don't fly, but it's the same, it's the same concept as well that will happen when pigs fly.

SPEAKER_05 57:53

I suppose. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Okay. You have a buckley's chance, which means that's never gonna happen. Pigs are never gonna fucking fly.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

You know, that's fair. Okay, so when donkeys fly. And who was that?

SPEAKER_03 58:04

That was Italy.

SPEAKER_05 58:05

Italy, when donkeys fly.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Portugal, not even if the cow coughs. What? That's a random one. Germany. What? When pigs fly.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Yeah. You fucking failed. And English and uh this is it just it's grouped it as English, so us and uh the UK, a snowball's chance in hell. Yeah, which is the one I think we referenced in the episode, or very something like that.

SPEAKER_05 58:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Like no chance in hell, snowball's chance in hell, because obviously a snowball is going to melt in hell, it's not gonna do anything. You have no chance whatsoever.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

So those are okay.

SPEAKER_05 58:51

Say the Russian one one more time.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

When the crayfish whistles on the mountain.

SPEAKER_05 58:58

Crayfish are seafaring animals.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

That's why. Why the fuck would it be on a mountain? I guess, why the fuck would it whistle? Because it wouldn't. There's no chance of that happening. It's not gonna whistle, and it's not gonna be on a mountain because it's a seafaring creature. It is seafaring. But I thought some of these are funny. Yeah, that is funny. There's other ones. I just picked well, ten, include I included Australia because I thought a little refresher, but you've got a Buckley's chance.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Uh when the crayfish whistles on the mountain. That's awesome. Well, I suppose. Alright, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_03 59:52

Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:06

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SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.