Juneau about the Juneau?

0:00 Oh, hey there. Oh, hello Jesus, Literally every time, and I'm getting sick of saying literally every time, because I ain't no joke. This is our first episode, but we've practiced. We've done some research, we've drank some beers, we've made some pilot episodes. Maybe you'll hear them someday, god willing. We are the History Buffoons. Hello, welcome to our first episode. Yeah, huzzah. Well, I am Kate. And I am Bradley. And we are the Buffoons. History Buffoons, yeah. And why are we Buffoons? Because I don't know shit.

0:41 That is accurate. I can attest to that About history. We know, I don't know shit, that is accurate. I can attest to that About history, we know. I don't think that's accurate. I know a little bit. We know a little bit about a lot, but not a lot about a little. Yeah, that's fair. I can understand that. We want to learn more about things that we do kind of know about and or that have interest, interested us over the years yeah, so we've literally been working on this podcast since january was january. Yeah, are you sure? yeah I, yeah, I had a client say in november of 23 that I would make a good podcaster and I thought about it for two months before I even brought it up to you.

1:29 Oh, wow, yeah, we've literally been working on this I feel like I was lied to for two months um yeah, um yeah. So we've been, we've been making pilot episodes for you, so that a bunch can be sent off all at once for you, to kind of. Dive into and hopefully enjoy and walk along our weird trail of buffoonery. And I'm so excited to finally be here. Yeah, me too, because it's been a lot of fun trying to do some practice stuff just to kind of hone our skill and craft and whatnot. And we've done actually quite a, I think a few pretty cool stories already that we hope you'll enjoy.

2:18 The listeners, or listener, I mean, I hope it's plural. I hope it's uh, hope it's. Thanks, Al Hi Al. We know he's going to listen. Only because I'm going to send it to him. How does this sound? I have a buddy named Al who listens to a lot of podcasts and I have sent him a couple just for his feedback, because we're trying to put out a good product for everybody that they can enjoy, hopefully, get to know us, laugh with us. A lot of it's at Kate but torpedo tubes. You'll understand that reference in the future.

3:00 But yeah, we've been working on it and we've been having fun trying this and there's a. There's a lot that goes into it there is and um, it's hard to find the time to do it all the time because of, you know, normal day life and work and families and laziness and laziness and just naps. Oh hey, the brews are on oh, hey, we're from. Oh, we're from wisconsin yes, wisconsin, I am originally from wisconsin. I lived here my whole life. Kate is a transplant through a couple different states nebraska, where she was born, and illinois for a while, and then made it up towards wisconsin.

3:44 Um, how many years ago, how many years have you been? Six, I think that's what you told me that doesn't mean I actually know. Excuse me, that was just a guesstimate, because I don't, I don't know she doesn't remember I don't remember. That's why it's good that we're doing these formats, because then she can listen back. I can listen back and she's like who are these people? This is a good podcast. Okay, so I have a really terrible memory. She really does. So, being able to listen back to research that I've done, research that I have written, and speaking it, I think all of that will really help me to remember history. Yeah, it certainly will. Yeah, and. I think a big part of it for you, especially because kate's our main uh researcher yeah, we'll call it that.

4:30 So she does the majority of that, which you know is quite an undertaking for her, which I appreciate. I do a lot of the editing and all that, which is also quite an undertaking. So I hope she appreciates I do I do? I know you do, but um, uh, where was I going with this? Uh, yeah, so we, we try to get together once a week to record an episode. That's our goal, because we'd like to get to do one every week, but yeah, anyways, um, where was I going with this? I don't remember I don't know. We were transplant and oh yeah. So, um, we've known each other for a while now and we just both found out we kind of really like history and apparently it was kept in the dark for two months until she said let's do a podcast about history and I was like, oh, that's a great idea.

5:20 If only I would have known this two months earlier. But, uh, but no, I I've always kind of been interested in doing something like this and just never really had a concrete idea of what to do. Yeah, and we know there's a lot of other podcasts out there, a lot of history ones and whatnot. We are by no means a formal, no research team. Uh, we like to learn what we can find. Obviously, if we ever say something that is not accurate, please, you know, send us an email, twit, twit us, tweet us, tweet us access? I don't know um, we'll have all that information for you at some point.

6:01 But yeah, we, we like to learn from other people too. So like if we clearly if we get something wrong. We're just going off of what we find for research and so on. Uh, please let us know or if you have ideas that you would like to us to uh kind of look up and talk about, and so on? we'd love to hear that as well because we're always open to ideas for different topics because you know we k Kate really likes World War II history, obviously more than that, but that's her main I'd say main love of history is around there. Yeah, I like a lot of medieval times and you know stuff like that. You like Kings and Queens, I do. That's a song by 30 Seconds to Mars.

6:43 There's so much kings and queens history it's really overwhelming because they all have the same names well, they were all I mean. A lot of them were related and well, yeah some intermarried to keep the bloodline pure and all that stuff a la you know, game of thrones kind of stuff. But um, you gotta also remember look how long that time frame was where it was kings and queens, I mean really up until what 1700s is, when I mean, obviously there's still some around today, but that the they don't. They're not the policymakers and such they have a parliament, or our government, or whatever it might be right. So yeah, there's a lot of that out there, but I like, I don't know, I like medieval stuff because we're not dead yet, but uh but well, obviously we won't pick from just those eras all the time we're gonna jump around yeah just to make it interesting.

7:39 So it's not just the same thing every week after week. Yeah, now this we're going to talk about the second king of 1403. And we like to focus a little bit more on the people as opposed to the event. We like to find events that have a specific person that's involved and was a big part of said event, even though there might have been a lot of people involved. We try and pick one person overall that we more or or less focus on, or maybe a handful of people. It depends on what the what the event is, obviously. But yeah, we like to uh, focus more on that and see why they made a difference within that event or whatnot.

8:19 So yeah, yeah, so I'm so excited to do this. Yeah, me too. So hope you all enjoy. Yeah and yeah, here we go. Hello, oh, hey, oh, hey there, wow, I'd like to think we're going to get better at this intro, but I don't know if I have the cut. Whoa, I think Kate might be dying.

9:01 I'm Kate and I'm Bradley. Hello, you, okay, there'm Bradley, hello. Oh. You okay there? Yeah, yeah. Just the oh, hey, there, it was just so funny. Still gets, you, doesn't it? Oh my gosh. Oh dear. Okay. So Bradley had a good idea and we went to the liquor store. We did go to the liquor store. It's always a good idea and we went to the liquor store. We did go to the liquor store, Going to the liquor store is always a good idea. Well, I mean yeah, to each their own. We picked up a couple beers to try. While we podcast today. Yeah, and we chose Bell's.

9:41 Bell's Brewery out of Michigan. Comstock, Michigan. Originally from Kalamazoo. So I got the Oberon Ale. You sure did. It's their summer beer. Yeah, the American Wheat, ale yeah, so I'm going to try that. And what do you have? I have a Hazy Hearted IPA, so it's their a play off their Two Hearted but more hazy hearted IPA. So it's their a play off their two hearted but more hazy. Yeah, there it is. That was a sound effects folks. It's real life. Cheers. Prost. Wow, mmm, I like.

10:26 It's definitely a little smoother than the two hearted, which isn't a bad thing, I'm just saying is it three hearted maybe one and a half, anyways so how is your beer? It's good, I like it. I don't know if I would buy this over two hearted if I was going for a bells again. But I'm not saying it's bad, I like it. I don't know if I would buy this over Two. Hearted if I was going for a Bell's again. But I'm not saying it's bad. Yeah, I enjoy it. It's not as hazy as some of the other ones out there are, and by hazy it's usually like a, I guess, a little more citrusy, juicy kind of flavor to it. This one's citrusy. Yeah yeah, that's their summer beer. They sell a boatload of that.

11:07 They usually have like a kickoff in roughly march. Um, we're like in comstock no, just for, like, the distributors selling it. They usually have like, oh, it's called oberon day. It's like the first day that we can actually or not, I say say we, you can actually send out Oberon to the stores and whatnot. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, they've been around for over 40 years out of Michigan. That's why I thought it was funny when they moved to Comstock, because I always knew they were from Kalamazoo, and then all of a sudden their stuff started saying Comstock. I'm like, wait, they move. Yeah, they just they have both.

11:48 They built another facility or something in comstock. I believe is what it is. But I did find out. Actually I did want to say this because I didn't know about this I've. So, side note, I used to sell beer for a long time and I did sell Bell's products and I never knew this about Oberon. In 1998, bell's had to change the name of Oberon from Soul Sun S-O-L-S-U-N kind of like, because soul is sun and oh dear Hi kitty. She jumped on the table and I reacted. So I had to show the viewers why I reacted.

12:30 Anyways so a Mexican brewery had a beer of a similar-ish name, even though it wasn't called Salson, but they had to change their name, so they changed it to Oberon. Oberon. Yeah, they had to change her name, so they changed it to Oberon Oberon. Yeah, I think Oberon is a city in Ohio, like a Cleveland suburb. Oh, look at that I think. Go Ohio, Drew Carey. Throwback. Well, you know, cleveland rocks, or so they say in the song. Do you know what doesn't rock? You.

13:11 Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, I haven't played my drums in years, so Way to open that wound. Do you know what rocks I can I can catch on? I said do you know what doesn't can I can, I can catch on. I said do you know what doesn't rock? Oh, doesn't rock okay and you said me, and then you said I do know what rocks. I have rocks, but in your brain there's a Himalayan stone rock next to you. I feel more calm it's not on, but oh I, I blew out the light, not like. I'm like it's not a fucking candle.

13:53 I burned out the light. I feel like we're in a song right now, and the Himalayan salt lamp went dim. No, anyways, I'm not going to finish what I was going to say. He told me I need to stop, so I'll stop. What doesn't rock besides me? Illinois. Illinois. We have. Illinois friends. You have Illinois friends. They're more of acquaintances if I've met any of them, so You're going to have Illinois friends after this are you trying to torture me? nice people. I didn't say they weren't nice people. Like I stated in another episode that has either come out or has yet to come out that Illinois you can find good people, illinois still just sucks.

14:49 I mean, there's Wisconsin's way better and there's still shitty people here. I do like Wisconsin. I do too. It's nice. Yeah. That's why Illinois is always beneath us and they have, and they have a good beer. We do. We have a lot of good beer. Okay, so do you know where the Bells like, how far out they distribute, because obviously they're in Michigan. They're nationwide, yeah, so they're everywhere. And actually I think it was early last year they sold. So the guy I forget his first name, larry bell, that's it, larry bell um sold his, his, uh, basically a stock in the company to, uh, I think, a chinese brewery or something, but uh, it's the same company that also owns um new belgium which does fatire.

15:44 Used to be like their flagship beer, but now they do the Voodoo Ranger series, which is very hop forward, so they do a lot of IPAs and variations off of that and so on. But they're the parent company of both of those breweries now, and New. Belgium is out of Fort Collins Colorado. My brother's family lives there. Yeah, you had told me that. And then of course, Bell's is still in Michigan, so they're all under the same umbrella now. Yeah, so a lot of distributors who distributed one and not the other now distribute both, and some lost it obviously to go to other ones, whatever. But yeah, they're all one big happy family now.

16:25 Nice, yeah, but I'm pretty positive they're nationwide. I don't know if they export it all that I don't know, but yeah, I used to sell a lot of Bell's beer. It's good stuff. Yeah, I'm pretty set in my ways with Modelo or a new Glarus. Glarus, but yeah. Well. Glarus, glarus, glarus, but yeah. Glarus. It's okay, I can't pronounce you Claire. Auclair, eau Claire, I don't know how you pronounce it, but I know how to spell it. It's Eau Claire. Okay, oh, maybe I can remember it that way. I hope you don't. I have a friend named Claire. Should I just be like Eau Claire, Eau Claire. I have a friend named Claire.

17:05 Should I? Just be like oh Claire, oh Claire, and I'm like the friend, not the city. You know what else rocks? Cleveland. Wait, we already went over that. What? There's a song. Yeah, so. There's a song. Today's Today's story Slash, podcast, slash, whatever we want to call it comes to you from my idea because of a couple reasons. Kate is a big fan of World War II history. I also am, but Kate is probably a ton more than I am. Anywho, oh dear, what year did it come out?

17:46 97, I want to say. That was a question I had for you, oh did I step on some toes? No, what year did it come out? But I don't have it written down because I apparently forgot. Well let me look it up while you talk about the song All right, so back in my high school days, in my formative years in the 90s so you're wrong on the year I am. Is it 95? It's 95, yeah. The more I thought about it, I'm like, no, it's another song by this particular.

18:34 So I really got into them and they have this song called Sullivan, which is the topic of our conversation today. The name of the band is Caroline Spine, which I love their name and, yeah, so their album Monsoon, which came out in 95, my favorite album of theirs has a song on it and it's about well, I don't want to give anything away, I guess, but do you have any? But I mean. So.

19:15 The topic today is based off of this song. Correct. We picked this topic because of the love of my song and Kate's love of World War II, history, the era yeah. So cheers to that. Cheers, yay Our bells. The bells are ringing. Oh, look at that, I see what you did there. I wish you wouldn't have, but I see what you did. Okay, so yeah, so this is based off of the five Sullivan brothers. Yes, let me clear my throat. I'm going to edit that out and go.

19:58 So Father, tom Father. Tom. Tom, oh Tom, because it sounded like you said Tom, I'm like. Is he the creator of Tums? I know. Nope, that would be pretty fucking fantastic. Father Tom was born in 1883. Oh damn. And Mother Alita. Alita, mm-hmm. Nice, was born in 1895. And they are from Waterloo, iowa. I know because they're running to the tower of Waterloo waiting for the train to come. Anyways. Those are song lyrics. I might reference a few that I remember off the top of my head.

20:39 Okay, so, like I said, there were five brothers. The oldest is jar, nope, george, thomas, george. George hey, have you seen George today? No, he's down in the barn. George supper, oh my word, that was fantastic. I think I actually got Kate to tear up on the podcast here Supper. Supper they rang their bells, I know.

21:23 Oh man, this is a fucking train wreck and it's awesome, like maybe they were speaking of train wreck they're running to the tower of water we're gonna keep going waiting for the sullivan train to come oh my goodness, okay, so george. George thomas sullivan was born december 14th 1914 so he was he was the oldest. And then there was francis henry sullivan, who went by frank. Okay, he was born february 18th 1916 okay and then there was joseph eugene sullivan, who went by red. Can you imagine why? He had red hair, yeah weird he was born in August, on August 28th 1918.

22:05 Okay. And then Madison Abel Sullivan went by Matt Madison into Matt. I've not heard that before. I haven't either. He was born November 8th 1919. Okay. And then Albert Leo Sullivan, who went by. Al was born July 8th 1922. So from 1915 to 22? 14 to 22. 14 to 22. So all five brothers were born in eight years. That's crazy. Yeah. And also the fact that Alita was 20 when she had her first kid. Maybe possibly 19. They actually had a daughter as well. They did. Oh yeah, I knew that actually, I'll get to that. She was the third born.

22:48 Okay, so it was the two oldest brothers. What was her name? jen, genevieve, genevieve, she went by jen and then. So it was the two oldest, genevieve, and then the three other boys. Yes, gotcha so six. Gotcha so six total kids. Yes, Okay. So growing up they actually had kind of a difficult home life. Okay, I mean, what we think of difficult these days are probably not as difficult back then, but to be sure, Well, yeah, I mean you got to think of the time that they're growing up, you know, in the very early 1800s, because 22, you already had an eight-year-old brother, yeah, or seven.

23:36 So Father Tom. He's not a priest. I know I'm like Father comma Tom. Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. I have not read this story fully through. He was actually a pretty quiet man and he was considered a drunk in the town. Oh, he was the town drunkard. Well, I don't know if he was the town drunk, but they knew he was a drunk. Oh, fair enough. So he actually worked on the railroad in Waterloo. All the live long day. All the live long day, and he had a coworker named Abel, abel, and Abel had a daughter named Alita. Oh. That's how they met.

24:17 Oh, they met through coworkers. Oh. Yeah, well, look at that. And then Abel died. Oh, you want to know how, cain? No, do I have my stories mixed up here? Cain and Abel, you get the reference right? Yes, of course Okay. I don't know, just make sure. No, I think I got a Bible somewhere around here. I got my grandma's Bible Anyway. So, side note, my grandma died 16 years ago. It's like the one thing I have from her. She didn't have a lot A Bible. It makes sense.

24:57 Even though I'm not really just folk, I got her Bible. So Abel Alita's father died when a train ran over him. That would do it A la fried green tomatoes, but they didn't die. Didn't he just lose an arm? No, which one died. Not Jerry O'Connell, who's the kid? And he's at the very beginning. Jerry O'Connell. No it's not. Are we watching? Stand by Me all of a sudden, or Fried Green Tomatoes. It's Fried Green Tomatoes, but what's Chris O'Donnell? Yes, yes, see, I knew it was an O'Donnell. Chris O'Donnell died because a train ran over him.

25:39 Oh yeah, it's been a bit All right okay. And then Mary Louise Parker, yeah she got all sad Rough and tumble. Mary Stewart. Masterson. Yep, that's the one. Yes, okay. We're going on a tangent. Let's reign her in, Okay so Abel died when a train rained over him. Which is Alita's father. Yes, okay, train ran over him, which is alita's father. Yes, okay, so alita's mother may mourned enough that she moved in with tom and alita. Okay, and there are six kids wow okay, okay, big, big, it's all full house, right, but the mother, the mother was mourning so much that she like felt like she had to keep busy, um, so she literally did all the chores, the chores in the Sullivan house.

26:31 That's kind of nice. And the mother didn't, alita didn't oh gotcha so Alita went through bouts of depression. Sure, um, she would have like huge bouts that she would actually stay in bed all day. When she wasn't laying in bed, she would be sitting on her porch swing on the porch, oh, and she would be watching the Sullivan brothers play. But she would rarely like get up and do anything Like interact and do stuff. Her mother, Mae, was literally doing everything. So she didn't have to, so she kind of just got complacent. Yeah, and Father Tom bless his soul was either working or drunk.

27:12 Well, I mean, at least he did two things, yeah, so technically both parents were considered like hands-off type parents. Of the kids okay. Yeah, so come teenage years, all five brothers actually left school around age 16. So like barely junior high school, and by this time we're in the Great Depression, the 1930s. So they quit school so they could get jobs, makes sense. They were both underaged and unemployed and they ended up drinking with their father, weird Apparently a couple times they drank all of his moonshine and he got pretty pissed.

27:55 Well, I mean, if you're a drunkard, you would get pretty pissed about that. Yeah. So Let me just kind of tell you briefly about each son. So the first one was George, right? Yep. So he actually loved that his father was a train engineer and he wanted to be a train engineer himself. Okay, what. That's Amos, and he's very hungry and he will let you know. So he actually grew up wanting to pull the train whistle. Okay, did you ever like do that with semis, like drive by semis, yeah yeah, as a kid you're like fuck, yeah they actually did it.

28:35 Yeah, that was great. Do people do that anymore? I'm sure let us know I don't call in. Wait the lines are open. No, no, just email us, just email us. Yeah, that will be at the end. You can do that then. Um, so George was actually considered to be the most moody of the brothers. Um, he was never smiling in photos and, being the oldest, he probably took care of his younger brothers and sister quite a bit, especially if dad's a drunkard. Yeah, younger brothers and sister quite a bit, especially if dad's a drunkard. Yeah, so he didn't talk too much. Um, similarly to his father. Okay, there was a. There was a time on the railroad where he was supposed to be on call and he was waiting around, waiting around, waiting around and finally he left because there was a dance he wanted to go to.

29:19 Oh, scandalous, and he ended up getting fired over it well, that will do it, because you weren't supposed to leave. You're on call. So, whoops. Second brother, Frank, left the railroad with George. To go to this dance Out of solidarity, no, just out of solidarity. Oh, so he left because he got fired, so he's like fuck it, I'm out. Out of solidarity yeah, Standing with my brother. So Frank was a boxer. He actually didn't mind his job on the railroad, but he left because George got fired. No, I get it. I mean, he's standing up with his brother. I get it, but in 1937, both George and Frank joined the Navy. Okay, and they served together on the USS Hovey for four years Hovey.

30:06 Okay. So the 37 to 41, they were on it, yes, four years. Okay, yeah, so the war had already started, but we weren't part of it yet. Yes, gotcha. So the remaining sons and daughter, jen. So Red, matt, al and Jen, they all got a job at Raths, r-a-t-h-s Raths, which was a meatpacking plant. It was like the biggest employer at the time. Sure in their town, in Waterloo, yeah. John Deere, I think, was up and coming and eventually they became the biggest employer, but for these times. Raths was a big employer For the late 30s yeah, yeah. And I found somewhere I don't know how accurate it is they earned 65 cents an hour.

30:49 Wow, so does that mean, did the daughter work there too? The daughter worked there too. Wow yeah. So she only made 40 cents an hour. Oh, sorry, topical. You're probably not wrong, anyways. So moving on to red, who was, uh, joseph? Red actually really hated the day to day. He hated the daily grind, he hated going to work. Sounds like a lot of us. Well, I mean yeah. Um, but he was considered like the best looking out of all the brothers and he. He made that his advantage and he became pretty popular in Waterloo, okay, and he ended up buying a motorcycle.

31:30 Oh, look at him, go yeah. And people would gather around Red and like admire his bike and he felt pretty good about that. I'm sure he did. But to terrorize the family neighborhood. However, he would roar his motorcycle up and down the street on Sundays before church. Oh dear, he's the type of person that didn't take shit from anybody. And he would dish it out. Yeah, yeah, okay. But he was also considered the lonely one. George and Frank, who were the oldest, were close in age, and the younger two, matt and Al, were fairly close. So Matt was Madison.

32:12 Matt resembled George, the oldest brother, quite a bit. He was also very quiet and subdued, but he was very motivated. He found the meat packing job pretty easy and he wanted to go back to high school eventually and actually get a higher paying administrative job. Sure, so he had. he had his sights set on aspirations for a better life. Good for him, yeah. Al the youngest was actually the first of the brothers to marry. Okay. And he ended up having a son named Jimmy. Oh, hey, jimmy. Yeahmy, yeah, um his wife, and I don't recall what her name was um, but she was considered to be on the elite side of the track, so to speak, yeah nice good for her al was very outgoing and because he was the baby of the family, he used that to get his way makes sense, sense yeah.

33:03 But he actually liked his work at Raths. Well, fair enough. Yeah, raths Meatpacking yeah. So when George and Frank came back from the Navy in 1941, they too started employment at Raths. Okay, so it was a big whole family thing, Family affair, yeah All right. So, having been discharged in the Navy, something so having been discharged in the Navy. Something happened on December 6, 1941. The day before Pearl Harbor. Damn it, december 7, 1941. I'm like what happened the day before Pearl Harbor. That's amazing, I never knew.

33:46 I don't think Ben Affleck was back yet the day before. I think it was that morning of that he came back from the dead. So, Jesus. Christ, I was so close. How did you get that wrong? I don't, it's not written down. Oh, that was off the top of your head. Yeah, that's awesome. I don't do numbers or dates. What was the daughter's name again? Jen, jen. Okay, continue. So what happened the day before Pearl Harbor? Nothing. It was calm and quiet. And then December 7th rolled around.

34:27 And that was a Sunday. It was, and it was very early in the morning, wasn't it? Yes, so Jen actually had dated a guy named William Ball who was in Pearl Harbor. He was, and that is part of the catalyst for what we're talking about. It was. Yes, do you know what ship Mr Bill Ball was on? He wasn't on the Arizona, was he? He was on the Arizona, Was he? Oh shit. All right, yeah, I was standing over his grave many many years ago. I've been to Pearl Harbor, yes, once I was 17. I didn't know you went to Hawaii, I guess I never told you that. I'm sorry, rude. My parents took my brothers and I to Hawaii in 97, I want to say it was yeah, it was lovely and one of the day trips we kind of did.

35:21 We stayed, I think, mostly in Maui, but we were on the big Island first, uh, which is where Pearl Harbor is, if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully I'm not getting my islands mixed up, um, but anyway. So one of the day trips we did when we were there, we went to the Pearl Harbor and saw the USS Arizona Memorial and everything. It was super cool. Um, I would love to go back there someday. I know Sarah, my wife uh, would love to go back there someday. I know sarah, my wife uh, would love to go back to hawaii someday. Her parents go there a lot. Actually I don't know if I don't think they've been there in a bit, but they used to take trips there all the time. Um, so I'll be in the suitcase sure, okay, great yeah I might have to pay extra for that one to get boarded, though probably.

36:02 Well, why don't you explain what the what the uss arizona was? briefly, well, it's pretty much the most famous ship that was attacked in pearl harbor. Lots of ships were sunk there, uh, but that was the the main one. That was, like, I guess, the most notable that people talk about, even still today, at least when I've ever talked about Pearl Harbor, because a lot of people got trapped in there. A lot of people died when it sank and everything you know, and I think I could be wrong on this, but like it's still like leaking oil to this day out of it or some something like that it's like almost kind of creepy and ominous, but yeah, I think it's just the most notable ship that you ever hear, and then that's, I think, why that one main one has a memorial and they kept it down.

36:47 They kept it underneath the water. They never raised it. It's still there, like the memorial, like you're like standing over the USS Arizona when you, when you're on the memorial. Wow, that's so eerie. Yeah, it's, you know, to think of all the people that that died, you know in that fricking ship because of what happened, Um, but yeah, I think. At least to me it's the most notable ship. I couldn't name one other ship off the top of my head, so I'm glad I got it right. So, um, bill Ball was actually kind of considered their sixth brother, like because they were so close Right and, yes, his death and actually his brother was there as well, but he was just injured Okay, that was the catalyst for them to enlist in the Navy.

37:39 Yeah, that's what? Because out of like, hey, these fuckers attacked us and because of their sister, yeah, With her relationship to Bill Ball, said we're going to go. Yep. That's why they all joined up. The Navy actually told Al to stay behind. Why. Because he was a father and a husband. Oh, but he was so gung-ho. Well, I mean, look at all the people that lied about their age back in World. War II people that lied about their age back in world war ii, and I mean there was 14, 15 16 year olds trying to go fight war because of what was going on. You wouldn't see that today, though. I'll be like I need my safe space, but either way, well, anyway, the navy relented, well good.

38:23 Well, clearly, yeah we wouldn't be talking about all five su five Sullivan brothers in this song if we didn't. But the Navy also had a policy where siblings could not serve on the same ship. Well, they fucked that up and the brothers told one of the Navy officers that if they couldn't be together then they would enlist voluntarily. Oh really. The officer was like no promises, but I'll see what I can do, sure, um? So after even that little promise of, I guess, no promise, um, george went back home and he wrote a persuasive letter to the secretary of the navy. Oh, wow, yeah that's impressive in the letter he highlighted his and frank's past service right, I kind of figured that.

39:09 And the brothers' motto is essentially like we stick together. Oh, and that's awesome that they did yeah, and George's statement. He claimed that they would be an unbeatable team together. So, impressed by their dedication, they relented and let them all. The Secretary of the Navy granted their request. That's crazy. Because just think of that one guy, guy and we'll obviously get there. Didn't change his mind. So Al was told to stay behind, right Because of being a father and a husband. He too wrote some letters. Oh, I guess they were pretty nasty. Oh dear. Yeah, like I said, the Navy then broke and let him enlist as well.

39:51 So their theory of letting them all engage on the same ship was that it would make a good recruiting story for the Navy. I can see that yeah. So after training, amos is angry. After training, they boarded the USS Juno. Yep, do you know what Juno is? Let's see what I did there. Juno, do you? I don't know Juno, juno. What about Juno? What are you trying to hint at? Because this is terrible. Are you trying to reference the? Because this is terrible. Are you trying to reference the Jaws speech?

40:31 No. That's the Indianapolis Juno is the. Alaskan capital. Well, no shit. How was I supposed to get there from that? Did you know there's a Juno in Wisconsin too? Really, really. There's also an Oregon. Don't say it Oregon, don't say it. I'm from Wisconsin. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the Juno Juno. About the Juno. Wow, this is where the podcast lost its one fucking listener. Thanks, Al Hi Al. So the USS Juno was an Atlanta-class light cruiser.

41:16 Okay. There were eight of them in the Navy, and they were designed as fast scouting cruisers or flotilla leaders. Flotilla the hun. But they proved to be more effective as an anti-aircraft cruiser during. World War II Sure. So the Juno was commissioned in 1942. She was named after the capital of Alaska. You don't say Not some random town in Wisconsin. Jesus, did you know that? Did you know? Did you know? I want to blow my brains out right now. The Atlanta class cruisers were classified as light cruisers because of their size and their weaponry.

42:00 They were armed with five twin five-inch rapid-fire gun mounts. That's a lot. Eight single 40 millimeter anti-aircraft guns. Okay. And four quadruple 1.1 inch anti-aircraft guns. That's a lot of words. They also carry torpedo tubes. Can you please do that again? Torpedo tubes I am going to use that as a soundbite for the rest of my life. Torpedo tubes. They carry torpedo tubes and the Juno was approximately 540 feet long.

42:48 Yep, that sounds about right. She. You know, yeah, Juno, juno, that she succeeded 6,800 tons and was powered by four broilers. Nope, boilers we cooking on here. Yeah, it's not like the broiler makers are a football team in college. It's the boiler makers. So they were powered by four boilers that produced 75,000 shaft horsepower. Okay, I'm guessing that's a lot. I've never been on a horse with power, so I don't know. I got stepped on by a horse once. That fucking hurt when On the back of my calf.

43:30 Oh, that hurt, that fucking hurt when On the back of my calf? Oh that hurt. That's random yeah. Why was your calf on the ground for it to step on? Because he bucked me off shortly before he stepped down in a run. What were you doing that made him buck? I didn't do shit. It was this dumb fucking neighbor who went like this with a plastic bag and spooked him. Sounds like Amos hey. I love you. Okay, so the Juno had a top speed of approximately 33 knots and she carried about 700 Navy men. Do you because obviously I'm not a seafaring person Same, do you like? How fast? Like? Is there an equivalent to miles per hour? for knots 61 kilometers per hour.

44:13 I'd have to go to my car and look at the speedometer for that. Okay, at least that gets me closer. Americans. Yeah. What can we say? We don't like the metric system. So the Juno was captained by Captain Swenson oh good old Swenson. And he says this is from the book Left to Die by Dan Kersman, which I did read in its entirety. There's a few spelling errors. In the book Like a lot, really Like a lot. Book Like a lot, really Like a lot. Seriously Like a lot Like that got produced with spelling errors.

44:56 It was a lot. Can you show me this book? Yeah, I've got it on my Kindle. Oh, okay, because I'd like to see that, because that's fucked up. Yeah, I mean the story was good. Who's the editor on that one? Yeah? and I'll get into something else that was Sure. Anyways, carry on. Yeah, so Left to Die by Dan Kersman. That will be linked in our show notes. Captain Swenson said, quote we must have no armor because we must carry heavy anti-aircraft guns and move rapidly. The ship is poorly designed and all we're good for is convoying, I feel like he jinxed him right there.

45:38 Yeah, he fucked him really hard. Yeah, spoiler alert Swenson was nervous about his crew as they were fairly inadequately trained and they were quite green behind the ears sure and also untested in battle, yeah, because I mean I don't know if you even know this, but did the? do you know when that type of cruiser or whatever they call it type of ship was like first produced? Because I know you said this one came out in 42, but yeah, is this like the atlanta class? I do not know atlanta class there. It is. Yeah, okay, because I'm not sure if like this was like a brand new class of ship or well that kind of brings me to swenson also being kind of inadequate, not more greener on the ears, yeah um, this was the first time he commanded a ship like the juno and he had no prior knowledge or even any type of information about the ship prior to captaining it.

46:34 Gotcha. Yeah, so he was also very concerned that there were five brothers aboard. Well, yeah. Yeah. Jinx it. It's like having a woman aboard Jinx. That's what the pirates used to think. Having a woman aboard Jinx, that's what the pirates used to think Swenson actually complained about the brothers being on board and the Navy replied that it would be good for public relations. They should have complained that he was untested at being a captain of this. But okay, anyways. So get this Along with the five Sullivan brothers. There was also four Rogers brothers. Hey, that's my middle name Joseph Patrick, louis and James.

47:15 Okay. Where were they from? Do you know? No. And, on that note, we're going to take a break while Keiko gets me a beer, because I'm too trapped. You don't know where they're from. No. The Rogers Brothers. Rogers Brothers Hold please. Is it spelt like my? middle name. Yes, yes, the Fighting Rogers Brothers. So Thomas Rogers lived a good part of his life in Monroe, connecticut. He was the father of 11 children. So the four brothers. So I believe they're from Connecticut.

47:55 Okay, cool story, we back. Guess who's back. Okay, so the four Rogers brothers were from Connecticut, supposedly Joseph Patrick. Lewis and James. They were all boxers were they really yeah, some of them were professional and some of them were semi-pro. So interesting, their father thomas also happened to write a letter. Well shit, he wrote a letter to the president why doesn't anyone email back then? Kidding so he wrote a letter to the president to get them all on the same ship. President wrote back allowing it, as the sullivans were already granted this privilege.

48:39 Eventually, joseph and james separate were separate from their brothers and boarded another ship. So they started there. Two of them left eventually oh so not all four of them were on the. They started there. Gotcha Okay, because I knew there was another set of brothers on the ship, but I didn't know that half of them vacated the premises. But also, at one point there was a ship that went down called the Wasp. Okay. And Swenson saved the crew members Approximately 1,900 of them, holy shit.

49:20 And there was a brother of one of them already on the Juno what the fuck. So he too aborted the Juno. This story is about brotherly love. I'm going to tell you that right now. That's crazy. Yeah. I didn't know that part. Yeah, excuse me. Excuse you. Well, I do declare that was not very gentlemanly or like. Oh damn. So the Juno was sent to the front lines. They went to the Guadalcanal, which is near Papua New Guinea, in Australia.

50:00 Where's Grandma New Guinea, anyways. So, as an anti-aircraft ship, they were given orders to attack surface vessels. Okay, which was never their intended purpose. No, because they're anti-aircraft. So why the fuck would they be okay? Yes, Blundering through the war. So let's rewind and go back to that book. I mentioned Left to Die. Left to Die. There was another significant typo throughout the book. Oh dear. And it was about the Japanese submarine, the I-26.

50:42 Okay. Or the 126. So which one is it? Or the 726. Are you serious? You have no idea how confused I was when reading this book. I was like wait, where did? 726 come into play. How many submarines are there? That's really yeah, so did you clarify which one it is? It's the I-26. Okay, yeah, that's weird. Yeah, so I went to Google ai and I was like tell me about the 726, they're like. And then I went okay, tell me about the 126, they're like. I got nothing. And then I did the i-26 they're like. Here you go I got lots of information for you. Yeah, you're like okay, okay, appreciate, that's okay, he's right anyway.

51:25 So so the Japanese submarine, the I-26, was commissioned by the Imperial Japanese Navy in 1941. Gotcha, when it was submerged, it was 2,500 tons. Wow, the length was 319 feet. Okay, and it had six 21 inch torpedo tubes. Torpedo tubes. I like that you laughed before. I could even get there. With 14 torpedoes. Torpedoes. You say torpedoes weird. Apparently Are they Italian. I see what you did there.

52:06 Throwback. Okay, so six torpedo tubes. Wow okay, okay, there was one deck gun, two machine guns, okay, and initially the submarine planned to carry a single seaplane, but that wasn't practical for them and it was eventually removed? Is it because it's a submarine Submarine? I don't know. I don't really know nautical vessels very well. Just so you're aware, submarines go underwater. Yeah, thanks. You don't know, nautical Is it yellow. Is it a schooner? So the I-26 was designed for long-range patrol and attack missions.

52:49 Okay, so I didn't write down what his title was, maybe commander, general, submarine captain, I don't know. Minoru Yokota, he was 39. So there are two major religions in Japan there's Shinto and then there's Buddhism. Okay. Smatherings of other things. I'm sure, yeah, but those are the main two. Yeah, guess what his religion was Shinto Christianity.

53:29 That's weird, really, that's surprising actually. And everybody on board knew it. I went with one of the two you said because I didn't know it was a third choice. Yeah, well, that's why I said there's a smattering of others. You smattered, all right, I sure did. I led you on that one. Well, good thing it doesn't smatter, let's go To fail. So in 1942, guadalcanal Patrol Sorry, in the 1942 Guadalcanal Patrol, the submarine was meant to deliver supplies to Allied planes and they actually ended up on a reef. What's that called, when you like?

54:11 Run aground. I don't know, almost like a beached whale. Run aground. Sure it was. I mean. On a reef. So out of the six torpedo tubes, the reef and the damage that the reef caused damaged four of their six tubes. It's like you're going to say tube and boob at the same time Tube. That one was a misspeak. Yeah, don't say yeah, so when when they uh beached the the reef, they damaged four out of their six torpedo tubes.

54:54 Yeah, it's uh six, 66.6 it's also significant later on. So let's fast forward. We're now in november 1942. We're talking about about November 12th and November 13th in the Guadalupe Canal. What days were those? I don't know. I'm just throwing you for a loop. Continue, please. So the goal. The US goal was to reinforce their Marines on Guadalupe Canal with additional troops and supplies. The Japanese were going to intercept that. Damn right they were. So their strategy? Aware of the incoming reinforcements, the Japanese launched an attack to disrupt that operation.

55:36 Okay, makes sense. So there was a night battle on November 12th. Okay, so the American and the Japanese naval forces clashed in a fierce battle known as the Naval Battle of Guadalupe Canal. I've never heard of it, but I bet you my dad has yeah. I'll have to ask him about that. So this battle had. I wish I could just have a video on my cats. I know, I kind of wish we were filming them, because that was pretty great. All of a sudden, whoa. We should just put a camera on Amos, because he's the active one, right? now Can we get like a dash cam on him? That'd be great, that would be fun.

56:16 Okay, so this evening had really really poor weather and it was dark, so there was lots of limited visibility. Yeah, lots of limited availability or visibility, yeah, so there was a ton of confusion and there was actually a ton of close counters combat. Okay, close quarters combat oddly enough, I know what you meant. I just I let it slide, but you know. Thanks for fixing it they. so there was a destroyer called the USS San Francisco Was that after an Alaskan city too, no. Okay. But it was mistaken for the USS Atlanta.

56:57 Oh shit, Was that significant that it was? Yes, because they thought the Atlanta was an enemy vessel and opened fire. Oh shit, Really, so they friendly fired. They friendly fired, oh, fired, oh. Damn on the atlanta. That's sad and so what happened to the atlanta? they fuck it was heavily damaged and suffered significant casualties, including admiral norman scott, who was killed on the bridge. Damn that's how limited visibility there was kill the, the fucking Admiral. That's crazy. They attacked their own ships. That I did not know. That's wild. The San Francisco obviously realized its mistake. So how do you think they realized that, though All of a sudden they're like, oh shit, they got an American flag on there.

57:43 I don't know. How do you attack and then be like? Oh Ruh-roh. I was looking that way. I don't know. That's crazy. I did not know that. I'd never heard that before. So then there's a destroyer called you can call it a destroy-o, destroy-o, what's? up destroy-o. It's called the Amatsukaze. Oh, another Japanese one, mm-hmm. The commander Hara had his sights set on the Juno. He eyeballed the Juno. He's like I want to go to Alaska. So, within eight minutes of this battle, hara sent a torpedo straight for the hull.

58:27 Okay of this battle. Hera sent a torpedo straight for the hull. Okay, the Juno seemed to literally jump out of the water about six feet, shaking and rocking. The torpedo hit the fire room of the Juno Okay, killed 19 men instantly inside the fire room. George Sullivan, the oldest, was thrown into the bulkhead, severely injuring his back Like I'm thinking like broken back. Okay, I have to ask this because of that statement already. Were there? Survivors of the Juno. Yes, but I will get to it, I know. I didn't want to jump the gun, but I had to ask. Sounds like you did. No, I jumped the cat, obviously the gun, but I had to ask.

59:08 It sounds like you did. No, I jumped the cat Obviously because someone had to give him this information, because how would they have known that he hurt his fucking back? Okay sorry, I didn't mean to jump. So the book Left to Die by Dan Kersman Quote the bridge of the Juneau now leaned precariously to one side side, and the ship itself was 11 feet down by the bow, with a two degree list. While only one screw worked, the main feed pump, which barely worked, communications didn't work at all except for sound power phones, and the steering wheel wouldn't steer somehow. Yet the juno limped away to safer waters.

59:51 That's impressive really. Yeah, because if you're like half kilter into the fucking water, I'm obviously not like Titanic sinking. but with no steering, somehow they managed Get the oars out and let's go guys. Well, others followed suit. Some of the other allied ships also followed suit to assess their damages, Gotcha. So Commander Yokota of the submarine I-26 followed them. Obviously, why wouldn't you? I mean, I got two out of my six tubes left. So now he's got five ships Like in his sights, kind of In his line of sight.

1:00:31 Yeah, jesus Christ. His periscope, if you will Well. I mean they do have a line on there, Anyways. Oh God. Is that radar? These are not movie effects folks. These are actually from Kate. Oh my God. Okay, anyhoo, okay, so the I-26. Remember how many torpedo tubes there were left? Yeah, 33%. You're such a dork. Two out of the six. Yeah, you're such a dork. Two out of the six, yeah. So he had to strategically choose which vessels to fire upon with his limited.

1:01:16 I don't know if you have this information? I don't, and I don't know how the setup of the tubes were. Were there like one on one side, one on the other, two on the same side? Because obviously, from what you just said, he had to strategically, yeah, uh, decide how he's gonna shoot, and so on. That would obviously be a big indicator of, okay, I have this tube here yeah and that ship's there so in the book I don't recall them stating where the tubes were. However, there was a lot of mention of if I fired at this ship, the backlash would would damage our own submarine. So I can't go for that ship. Makes sense. I can't go to this ship because of the angle of the tubes.

1:01:57 So there was all all of that strategy in there. So the goal, um, for yokota was to knock out a heavy cruiser, and that would have been the San Francisco. So Yokota wasn't confident in the angle of the trajectory. He would have to maneuver around a light cruiser just in front of the San Francisco. Was that the Juno? The torpedo missed, oh shit, the San Francisco. Okay, and at 1101, on November 13th 1942, the Juno blew up. Wow, Like fully blew up.

1:02:39 Yokota missed the San Francisco and it went to the Juno. So he never even intended to hit that. No. Wow, that's wild, yeah, and it was such that one shot was it one or two torpedoes did it say? I did not write that information down. Yeah, but that one hit and now remember they were already damaged too, right? obviously so I'm sure like fuel could have been leaking places or whatever. Blah, blah, blah kind of things to help, obviously. Fuck that shit up. So guess how long it took for the Juno to sink. One minute 20 seconds. I was going to go 30 seconds. That was my first guess.

1:03:19 Isn't that insane? Damn 20 seconds. That had to blow a ginormous fucking hole in it then for it to sink in 20 seconds. Out of 700 men, 140 survived. That's impressive actually wow. Okay, I mean it's 20. So so fearing further submarine attacks and mistakenly believing that there were actually no survivors due to the massive explosion. Sure nearby allied ships left the scene without attempting any kind of rescue well they thought we're gonna get attacked next and there's no way that there's any survivor, so let's just get out of here, was this at night, so at this time it was 1101 am on november 13 said that, yeah, yeah, so I mean, it was daylight.

1:04:09 It was daylight, but I'm sure there was enough dark smoke from the explosion and so on that they couldn't really tell. And no Juno? Well, yeah, but there's going to be debris all over the place and obviously in a panic, you're not going to be like that's not debris, that's a person. Yeah, yeah, that's not a person, that's debris, yeah, so you're just going to hightail it out of there and try and save your own neck, wow, okay. So the men left in the water following. The attack lasted for days. They were in the water for days. Were there sharks there? Well, that's to be determined. Well, you know. So the survivors found themselves cleaning to life rafts anything they could find basically nets and other debris.

1:04:54 It's considered the open ocean. We're in the Indian Ocean here. Because of the confusion and the lack of communication about the extent of the damage to the Juno, a coordinated search for survivors wasn't initiated for several days. Wow, that's crazy so there was a plane, an allied plane, that threw, that flew over the juno site three times over the course of a few days and every time he reported the, the pilot reported that there were survivors. Oh really, yes and they just ignored it. They did nothing. Wow, the line of communication got disrupted somewhere between the pilot and whoever was doing the searching, sure, and it just never happened.

1:05:43 That's sad, and he went over three different times over several days and each time he, each time he's like dude, they're still there. There's less of them, but they're still there. So was the 140 survivors the total they collected? No, that was the initial. That was the initial. How did they have time to count that number? It was probably just a guesstimate, I'm sure. Yeah Damn. So George actually survived the blast with his potentially broken back, really, as did al really so. Floating on debris, george yelled and yelled and yelled in the water for his brothers.

1:06:23 Al never responded. Okay, george did end up finding him. He would like Swim between debris Looking for his brother Any of his brothers and he found Al and just Al was just in complete shock. Well, right. So he didn't even really register what the heck was going on. Yeah, so a friend on another raft Said that he actually saw red, really. He had said that he actually saw red, really. Um, he had said that his head was split open, yep, but after just the first day in the water he didn't see him again. Okay, so it was suggested that he probably died within just hours of the explosion probably sank, I would assume so al was clinging onto a rope and George swam off to look for his brothers in other rafts and debris and when he came back Al was gone.

1:07:15 Oh shit really. Yeah. That's sad. Yeah, so being in open water, you kind of had mentioned something already, but what kind of conditions do you think they would experience in the water? Well, dehydration. Mm-hmm. Number one because you're in salt water. Mm-hmm. Well, fatigue from the swimming. Mm-hmm. And probably some predatory seafaring animals. Seafaring. Like sharks. So, yeah, the elements were quite harsh. I can imagine. They all battle dehydration. Of course. But there was exposure to hot sun and then cold nights, of course, yep.

1:07:58 During the day, the men would actually take off their clothes because it was so ungodly, hot Right, but were freezing then at night. Of course, and after so many days their flesh was just completely raw. yeah yeah, that's gotta suck. Most of the men also endured hallucinations from drinking the salt water well yeah, because at that point you're so damn thirsty, you're gonna do anything so some of the men hallucinated that the Juneau was quote unquote underneath them. So they try and swim to it. And they would try to swim to the Juneau because they were hungry and they wanted food and they knew the Juneau had a mess hall, wow.

1:08:38 And they would die. Well, I mean, they aren't wrong, it was below them. Yeah. I mean. But they never came back to the surface. Others hallucinated that there was an island within swimming distance. Oh, and they tried to swim there. And they tried to swim there, sad, the worst elements that they could encounter was sharks. Yeah, I figured. Yeah, the very first day sharks came. Well, yeah, because smorgasbord. Yeah, came well. Yeah, because smorgasbord. Yeah, and these were actually sharks that were man-eating sharks like they. They weren't just, they weren't like great whites or whatever.

1:09:20 Um, but yeah they were I don't remember if I wrote down what kind they were, sure, but they were actually sharks known for eating human flesh, gotcha. So they benefited quite a lot off of the dead bodies from the blast Yep. So they were quickly shooed away from the survivors by creating really frantic movements in the water. But eventually the sharks got more and more aggressive yeah, they got bold so, one by one, the surviving men with the hallucinations would tumble off their rafts in search for food or land or whatever and literally be taken down by these sharks.

1:10:02 That's crazy. There were hundreds of these sharks. I tell you you ought to read this part of the book because the detail is horrendous. There would be screaming heard throughout the night because they would get taken under. They would swim somewhere, be taken under, and all you hear were screams Right. Eventually, though, the men on the raft stopped reacting, because it was they got used to becoming commonplace, yeah, yeah. So george um grew more and more unstable from drinking salt water, and he was also dealing with his heart, his heartbreak of reality.

1:10:43 He claimed he saw an island and was gonna to go swim for it. And the actual? There was actually an Island, oh really, but it was 50 miles away. Holy shit, how would he have seen? that, unless it was a flat earth, he would not have seen that. Yeah. Sorry, there is curvature either way. So once in the ocean, within about 25 yards, three sharks attacked him and tore him to pieces. Well, and that was the fifth brother see you, george, it's been real. Yeah, wow, okay, so do you have? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not done yet I'm not done yet I'm not dead, yet Bring out your dead, okay.

1:11:29 So finally, after several days of drift, rescue aircraft finally came and spotted some survivors Only 10. 10 out of the supposed 140? . Only 10 were rescued. That is sad. I didn't, honestly, know there was even any that survived. I didn't know that number, to be honest, wow 10 out of 140. That's crazy. So news of the sinking of the Juneau was actually initially withheld until the victory at Guadalcanal was secured. So they kept that under wraps. Which is understandable, you know, propaganda and all that back in the wartime.

1:12:13 And the reality of the survivors remained largely unknown until well after the war, and the story of the Sullivan brothers, who all perished on the ship, became a stark symbol of the sacrifices made by American families during the war. So back in Waterloo, iowa, it wasn't so. This was November. We're talking about 1942. It wasn't until January of 1943. Did news finally reach Tom and Alita Sullivan, right, yeah, so if you had gotten news that your child was missing in action or deceased, who do you think would come tell you?

1:12:55 Usually, then, they send a priest and a. Like an officer. Usually a little bit higher ranking officer that obviously wasn't overseas Right Was here, but usually I think that's what they did. Yeah Right, they found out through a neighbor. What, seriously? A neighbor's son wrote her and said that the Sullivans went down with their ship. And the neighbor came over and told Alita. That's messed up. She didn't believe it. Well, why would she have? So another week later, january 12th, three naval men came to their doctor.

1:13:36 Okay, lieutenant Commander. Came to their what? To their door, their doctor, I said doctor. I'm like hey doc, what are we going to do? I don't know. Just go fucking tell her. Three men, naval men, came to their door, so it was Lieutenant Commander Truman Jones, who was coincidentally the man who also swore in all five Sullivan brothers. Okay, oh, I only wrote his name down, so there were three needful men and other guys. Two more. I don't know who they are, but they told the Sullivans that they were missing in action, essentially that they weren't deceased. And it wasn't until a letter came from a fellow sailor of the Juneau straight to the Sullivans that had confirmed the boys died.

1:14:21 Gotcha Wow. So Tom still went to work that day. Well, I mean, gotta make that buck. So between Tom and Alita, they actually contemplated do I even go? Tom and Alita, they actually like, contemplated, like do I even go? And Alita was like the trains that you're working on are literally carrying war freight. Yeah, and if it's not delivered, more soldiers will die. So go to work. Yeah, no, I mean Mm-hmm. And then when you get home, get drunk. Yeah, wow. So Alita and Tom became a stimulus to the war effort. Letters of condolences came in from all over, including from President Roosevelt.

1:15:03 Alita christened a new destroyer named the Sullivans. Near the St Mary's School, a statue of the Blessed Mother was dedicated to their sons. There was a Sullivan Park and they led a parade in Chicago for St Patrick's Day, fucking Chicago. Year after year, alita would repeat how old her sons would be if they had survived. Sure and Tom drank more. You don't say and he was actually fired from his job for it. At the train yard. Mm-hmm, oh man. But railroad officials in Chicagoago reinstated him.

1:15:44 Wow, because he was the father of five heroes, and they didn't want that bad publicity, wow okay he retired in 1948, so really not that long after no, not at all. yeah, and he died in 1965. Okay. Both Alita and her mother, may, ended up in the same nursing home. Alita died in 1972. Okay, and May died a few years later at 105. Wow, it's because she was busy cleaning. I was going to say she outlived her daughter. By a lot. What year did she die? I didn't say just a few years later. She was 105 Wow that's crazy. Jen she died of cancer In 1975.

1:16:29 The daughter During the war she was actually Part of WAVES, which is the United States Naval Reserve, or like Women's Reserve, and it was just a branch that the women could join. I was not aware of that. Okay, nice. Yeah, okay, sorry, I lost some place. That's okay so, if you recall al's son, jimmy, at 50 years old he pushed for congressional passing of the sullivan act, which would convert into law the present informal pentagon policy that forbids family members from serving together in the same unit or on the same ship right so it was an informal policy and he made it formal gotcha, oh sorry japanese commander minoru yokota became a school teacher the christian dude okay he changed his name and only wanted religion to purge his guilt he refused any reunions or kept in touch with any of his men.

1:17:38 He wanted nothing to do with it. He just was trying to separate himself from the atrocities of war. Yeah, okay. Captain Swenson went down with his ship. Oh yeah, he was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross. Fair enough. His son, robert, went to the Naval Academy in 1944. Okay and a Robert went to the Naval Academy in 1944. Okay. And a destroyer which Robert would serve on, was christened the USS Lyman K Swenson oh there you go. So back to the Rogers brothers. Patrick and Louis Rogers went down with the Juno. Okay, so they did die. Mm-hmm. And the other two. Do you know what ship they went? I don't okay um.

1:18:20 Joey rogers tried to return to boxing after the war, but quit after losing only two matches. He spent decades plastering wallpaper, delivering milk and assisting mechanics. For 15 years he drowned his grief in a bottle. Yeah, it's not surprising. However, he conquered his alcoholism oh impressive and enjoyed his life and his memories of his brothers until his death in January 1993. 93 left a while. Jimmy Rogers returned to boxing as a professional. He won each week. Oh damn. But eventually began getting confused after a head injury in a bout and declared that his final fight.

1:19:05 Yeah, they didn't know much about concussions back then. So he opened a restaurant and died in 1999. Oh, look at that Wow. So we're going to fast forward to 2018. That's a lot of fast forwarding yeah. They discovered the Juno Rack in 2018. Did they really, oh shit. Yes, so philanthropist and Microsoft co-founder, paul Allen, funded a research vessel, the RV Petrel, specifically designed for shipwreck exploration. So this vessel was responsible for locating the genome Gotcha.

1:19:47 So the wreckage was identified on March 17th 2018, resting on its side on the ocean floor about 2.6 miles deep off the coast of the Solomon Islands, which is the Guadalupe Canal in the South Pacific, oh. St Patrick's Day. This unmanned submersible utilized side-scanned sonar to map the seabed and identify potential wreckage. After identifying a target area, a remotely operated vehicle with cameras was sent down to confirm the identity of the wreck through visual inspection, including the ship's nameplate. So did they know what they were finding when they found something?

1:20:30 Yeah, I would imagine. So they knew they were searching for the Juno. They were searching for it. Oh, okay, gotcha. So the loss of life on the USS Juno was immense, with over 680 crew members perishing. The discovery provided a sense of closure for families who had lost loved ones on that ship by that ship being found Right. So, to end, george Sullivan, who was a runner's mate, second class, died at 27. Wow. Francis Frank Sullivan, who was a coxswain, which is a person in charge of the boat's navigation and steering. He was 26. Joseph Red Sullivan was a seaman second class.

1:21:12 He was 24. Madison Matt Sullivan, seaman second class, was 23. And Albert Al Sullivan, seaman second class, was 20. That's crazy, 20 years old so that's the story of the Sullivan brothers. My dad was in the Navy, so he's a big Navy guy, so he loves reading about and his one of his favorite topics is topics is world war two as well. Um, he likes to read a lot of the Navy stuff from that time and whatever. So I would imagine he would probably get a kick out of this one to be honest. So, um, I did reach out from a email I found I have no idea if it was to the right person, but I did send an email because I wanted again, I love the song by Caroline Spine called Sullivan to see if we could play some of it.

1:22:07 I never heard back, which I did not expect at all, which is fine, um, which is fine um. But, uh, I wanted to play a clip of the song. I'm not going to do it because I don't want to get myself in trouble. So, and I'm up, I'm gonna just read a couple snippets of the lyrics just to kind of reiterate what you kind of went over. Um, but definitely, if you're listening to this, go give uh sullivan by caroline spine, off of the album monsoon, a listen. It's a very good song, it's a rock song and we can put that in our yeah we could always do that, but like so, for example, um, so he like, in the song they talk about waterloo, which is where they're from, of course, um.

1:22:51 And it makes more sense to me when, uh, the says looking for the Sullivan's train to come. I did not know that the dad worked on trains, so that makes so much more sense now to me. But they, you know the five boys. They mention five boys a lot, and so on, and I always like this verse. It's not hard to reach back to the days after the attack on Pearl. Overnight my buddies turned into men running out of time for games and girls, and the Sullivan boys were not overlooked, uncle Sam, calling each by name, which we find out, they're the ones who kind of said hey, uncle Sam, but the very next day they left on a mystery train to go and obviously get their orders, and so on.

1:23:42 So it does talk about you know, mrs sullivan, don't cry. And you know we, we regret to inform you that all of your sons have been taken away, so on, so forth. Anyways, I don't want to read too much because I don't know, I don't want to get in trouble for something stupid, but it's a really good song. I really like it. I've played it for Kate. She didn't know it, she's not a huge music buff, but she enjoyed it and it's a really good song. But yeah, caroline Spine Sullivan on their album Monsoon from 1995. And if for some reason someone from Caroline Spine listens to this, please produce a vinyl record of that album so I can buy it, because I would love to.

1:24:29 I do collect certain vinyls, bands I really like, and my brother, who is big into vinyl too and big music guy. I said, hey, if brother who is big into vinyl too and big music guy, um, I said hey, if you ever come across a Caroline spine monsoon vinyl, get it for me. He looked and said I cannot find one anywhere. So I don't know if they were ever produced. I'm not sure that is beyond my pay grade. So, um, anyways, jokingly, but I would take one. But yeah, um, I really I enjoyed it more learning a bit more about him because obviously, um, I didn't know some of those things. Of course I knew some, but most of my information grew from this song, which is, I think, kind of cool, you know, makes I like history stuff as we're doing this, of course.

1:25:18 Uh, but to get like my main information, like I knew they were from Waterloo because of the song, yeah, and there also is a Waterloo in Wisconsin, but not that one, the one from Iowa. And she rolled her eyes. Oh, let's see how it is, let's go to Nebraska and have fun. Nebraska's great. To leave Kidding. Illinois is worse, at least Nebraska's next to Iowa. But we're rivals. In college or just in general College? Football. Who the fuck cares? Everyone's a rival in football.

1:25:58 I did I did? Oh, that's right, because you had to adopt NFL, because all you had was college football. That's right. Yeah, yeah, my bad Must suck to grow up in Nebraska. It wasn't Shit, your trap. I don't have a trap to be shit. Torpedo tubes, torpedo tubes, torpedo tubes. How did you say, george? again, I don't even know, george, I don't even know. I'm going to have to listen to that again. That was fantastic. But anyways, yeah, so more historic things to come in the future, wouldn't you say? Yeah. Well. I suppose, All right, buffoons.

1:26:40 That's it for today's episode. Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you. Next time Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore. Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on Reddit, x, instagram and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmailcom. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us. Remember, the buffoonery never stops.