0:09 oh, hey there, hey there. How are you kate? I'm good, I'm excited because we have a hi oliver, we have a pumpkin cider, which I'm not a huge pumpkin fan, so this is going to be interesting you do. You are a fan of ciders, so that's why we picked this one. We actually picked potentially two for this episode. We're going to start with um the cider, because that kate likes ciders. I mean, I like ciders too, don't get me wrong. But this is from uh down east, unfiltered craft cider. Um, and it's a wow that's hard to read an unfiltered blend of apples, pumpkin and delicious chai spices and I can't tell where it's from oh shit okay.

1:02 So their bottle or their can says we know it's upside down. Literally, the writing is upside down. We know it's upside down why? Because the best way to drink our unfiltered cider is to shake it up first, and by turning the can over to read this, you're halfway there. Give it a shake, wait 10 seconds and enjoy unfiltered, the way it should be oh, I did not realize that yeah, okay that's kind of. That's kind of cool, unique way to do it shake, shake, shake shake your booty shake, shake your pumpkin I don't know if I'm gonna leave that in. That was terrible, all right. So I, I shook it, I uh let it settle but it doesn't say where they can it.

1:44 I'm drawing a blank and I've known I've seen their stuff before. Oh, here Boston Massachusetts. Boston Mass Get Pocked Cod Havid Yad. No, okay, I'm scared to open this can now that we shook it and I've got my computer right here. Well then, maybe turn to the side. Okay, here we go. Oh, okay, that wasn't bad. No, it shouldn't be with a cider. Now, if you shook a beer, different story. Oh, why don't I hear that from mine? It fizzes, it fizzes. I do like ciders. I don't drink ciders. There's one cider that I drink. Well, you drink ciders. You just don't go out of your way to drink ciders.

2:25 Like at all I know. So okay, bottoms up, here we go. Cheers, it tastes like a cider. Yeah, very little pumpkin. Yeah, I don't taste any pumpkin. Maybe a hint at the very end. It's definitely apple. It's definitely cider forward A very small hint of pumpkin at the very end so I don't hate it, cool, cool well, maybe you'll hate the next one, yeah, so hey, this is our halloween episode, hazzah halloween. It's an extra episode for you this week. Yeah, because we thought it would be cool to do something specific for halloween, because we are both big fans of Halloween.

3:06 Yeah. We like the whole I don't know witches and whatever spookiness that goes with Halloween. I am a fan of scary movies. She is. I'm not, because they're very predictable. And I like scary books. I like. Well, as I've stated in a previous episode, my favorite author is ann rice, and so I like vampires and her witch series and blah, blah, blah. Not just that, I like other ones as well, but she's my favorite. So I like all that spookiness, werewolves, all that good stuff, you know and I prefer, like serial killer books. Well, I'm not a fan of like, I don't mind vampires and stuff, but I I'd rather do more realistic rather than fantasy okay um, but there has not been a scary book that I have found that I have been scared about.

4:00 So and I please tell me if you have a scary book, because I would love to read it. It has to capture my attention, otherwise I won't read it. I want it to be scary, I want it to be unpredictable, I want there to be like a big twist at the end. Are you out there? please find me please find me in my inbox so if anyone has a suggestion for kate a scary book to read, please email us at historybuffoonspodcasts at gmailcom. Go to our website, that would be great, because you can get to that there as well. That will send us an email or leave us a voicemail and tell us about it in your own words, because you can click the little voicemail button on our website and be like hey, kate, try this.

4:44 Yeah, we would love that. There is an author called ja conrath I've heard, yeah, I've heard of him I've got many of his books yeah, I have many, many of his books and he's got several that are kind of freaky, deaky, but, um, again, they're just, they're not quite scary enough okay not quite scary enough I find I find books um. I find it very hard for books to be scary yeah, that's probably my problem and like obviously a movie, they do the whole jump out at you, whatever kind of loud jumping music and stuff like that for sure whereas a book it's like you're just reading words, and not that I'm not saying they're good, it just I can't see how that's gonna be like.

5:32 Oh my god, that freaked me out yeah, you know yeah but, but that's me, I am willing. You want to be, I want to be, that would be, great, um. So I have a question for you, oh what's your question? Since we're kind of talking about spooky things. I like spooky things have you ever been to a haunted house? yes, I have tell me about it oh dear, the last haunted house I went to was probably eight, no, 20 years ago you want to know something funny? what? What? I love scary books. Yeah, I love scary movies. You hate haunted? houses. I hate haunted houses. Is it because of the people jumping out at you and stuff like that? I don't want it to actually happen to me, I just want to see it or hear about it or whatever.

6:15 Wow, that's kind of funny. I don't remember a lot about it. It was okay. Milwaukee, I think it was. That one was in Milwaukee. There was what was it called Rainbow Springs? It sounds very scary, trust me, in this day and age it is. I joke. No, it used to be a golf course and they had a lot of these buildings and it wasn't obviously used that way anymore. I think that closed down a long time ago. This is a different one than 20 years ago. This one was prior to that. It was okay.

6:55 Yeah, nothing. Do you remember who you went with? I wish I didn't. Noted, noted. Kate's like answered that question question. I know who he's talking about, yeah, but so I'm gonna talk to you about a couple different haunted houses, oh, and they were all investigated by a couple oh is by the oh shit oh yeah, yeah, bring it on. You got this oh, I just lost their names. Shit man and wife, right. Yes, their last name is Warren. Yep, mm-hmm. Yep. Ed and Lorraine. Yep. Ed and Lorraine Warren. Yep, okay. So they spent their lives working on thousands of cases.

7:38 What? Poltergeist demons, guys, demons devils, all of the above. Do you know what the male version of a succubus is? Incubus, not a girl. So ed is a self-taught demonologist. Well, yeah, because you don't go to fucking school for demonology I think there is something like that. is there, though? I think so. Well, the scary movies say there are Well then it has to be correct. Lorraine is a clairvoyant. Or so she says I mean. I'll get back to that later, actually, oh okay, yeah, so Lorraine had visions as a child, but she never told any of her family about it.

8:22 I have visions all the time I look around. I mean Not that time I look around, I mean Not that kind. So the two met at 16 years old at a movie theater. He was an usher and she went to see movies and apparently she went, like every Wednesday, with her mom and he was just always there. You gotta work. Yeah, so they ended up talking and getting together Right when he turned 17, he went into the army what movie did they meet at? Um, it was a james cagney movie really nice yeah, um. So he went into the army um at 17 yeah, and when he got back they married and then he went back into the army oh, wow yeah, so he was like on leave or Sure.

9:02 So he officially returned in 1945, and they had a daughter named Judy. Judy. Mm-hmm and to help support his family, Ed would paint. Okay, so he was a painter, he was a painter Interesting, so he would actually sell his paintings for about $3 to $5 each, which in today's money, um back in 1945 ish era I'm glad you finally learned to, to give you the um, the conversion it's the inflation rate yes yeah, it's crazy, that's pretty funny. Um so three to five dollars in 1945 is around 85 today. I mean, that's so. That's a good chunk of change for just uh just for a painting?

9:44 Yeah, nobody at the time. Well, right, yeah I mean, he had no backing to his name and people would buy that stuff. That's yeah, that's impressive actually so he was always kind of interested in the paranormal. When he was a child he saw a I think it was a woman or some kind of disembodied face in his closet. That's weird. And so he was always kind of interested in the paranormal and haunted houses and he would research haunted houses in the area, go and paint the haunted house, okay, and then knock on their door with Lorraine right there and he would offer them the painting saying, hey, I painted your house. Would you like this? Yes, and then they would start talking about how their house is haunted and they would be invited inside and they would share stories.

10:32 That's crazy. So that's kind of how they got into investigating haunted houses. That's pretty creative. Yeah. Yeah, wow. So how would he and you probably don't even know this, but how would he like that house just looks haunted and so he picked that. Or I mean, did he hear stories? No, I think it was probably more along the lines of he heard rumors that this person was encountering something, but this was all typically in kind of the New England area. Rarely did he actually like travel outside of the area. Okay, well, it's the oldest part of America, so it makes sense why there'd be a lot of haunted stuff that way. I'm going to tell you a couple stories of their more famous cases.

11:15 I think I've got three here. They have thousands, right, right, and some of them really small, some of them really large, right. Because they're the one who did. They're the one about the. Was it annabelle doll or yes? Is that the right one? yes, yes so just for future reference here, they have never charged for their investigations well, yeah, because that'd be like a scam, because yeah seriously right and they could easily say well, like, we're going to pretend that there's a ghost here so we can get paid, even though we know that it's. Not right, right, like there's a bat in the attic or something. A bat in the attic. So they never did charge for their work.

11:55 However, they got plenty of book deals and interviews and they taught lectures, so they did get their income eventually Right, of course. Yeah, they taught lectures. So they did get their income eventually, right, of course, yeah, through their career. But as far as investigating families' homes, they never asked for a cent. That's wild, yeah, so we are going to talk about little Miss Annabelle. Oh, there we go Right away. I know, I just wanted to make sure I thought that was. I was yeah. Anyway, sorry. Yes, wanted to make sure I thought that was. I was yeah, anyway sorry, yes and um so um annabelle was actually a raggedy ann doll, correct? Do you remember what raggedy ann was a doll, correct?

12:37 Do you know where their doll came from? A factory downtown it was a cartoon correct. Yeah, it was a cartoon, because it's raggedy ann and raggedy andy yeah, so they were cartoons and they ended up um developing dolls, essentially to sell merchandise. Yeah, exactly, they're selling merchandise yeah, so there were three roommates, donna, and then her friend, angie, angie, and angie was, uh, fiance to lou fiance I've never, I never. I never actually heard that like fiance. It's like take your fiance to france so I heard conflicting dates.

13:23 It was either 1968 or around 1970. Okay, that donna, who was a nurse, ended up receiving a gift from her mother, and it was a raggedy ann doll. And it was like a three-foot doll. It was fairly large. Those were big, yeah yeah, so she looked she enjoyed the doll. So donna would have the doll on her bed or on the chair, something like that. It was always in her room or somewhere thereabouts, because she actually did enjoy the doll. And it moved. Yeah, so there would be times when she would leave it sitting on a chair and when she got back it was off the chair. Right. And she would put it on the bed and then all of a sudden it would be on the chair.

14:03 Like hours later she would come back home and it was on the chair and at first she was like, oh, I must have just forgot that I moved her there or something. And then eventually it was like this is happening a lot. And then at one point they started to witness notes around their apartment written on parchment paper where'd the parchment paper come from? they don't know. That's weird. They never they never had parchment paper in their apartment who the fuck does a raggedy and seven. Why would raggedy and have parchment? ask her. I don't know, raggedy, and so in the notes there this doll asked for help, supposedly supposedly asked for help.

14:51 Okay, in the notes and it was written in like a child's, like handwriting weird yeah, at one point donna, who is again a nurse, witnessed a red oozing coming out of Raggedy Ann so and she was like that's blood. Can I ask a question so I can differentiate this in my brain? Yeah. Annabelle is just a name they made for the movie. No, it is actually associated with this doll. Yes, I just haven't gotten there yet. That's fine, I just cause I wasn't sure, so I just kind of wanted to. At this point she is rackety-yam. Okay yeah, all right, sorry. So blood is literally oozing from this doll.

15:33 Ooh and Scandalous. Scared they called a medium. I'm sorry, like this is the 70s. I get that. I'm sorry, like this is the 70s. I get that. So the medium comes in and they hold a seance and they find out that there was a girl who had died on the land that the apartment complex was built on. Okay, she was seven years old and her name was Annabelle Higgins. There it is. So at this point they started calling the doll Annabelle higgins. There it is. So at this point. They started calling the doll annabelle that's. I feel like they almost kind of fucking brought this upon themselves well, exactly because they made this doll more of an object of sympathy as opposed to an object of fear right so, like it switched in their mind like, oh, this is a seven-year-old girl that's somehow latched on to this doll.

16:26 Sure she's sweet. She asked for help, maybe she needs a friend, etc. So they she created more of a sympathetic so what help was she asking for? it doesn't say but I'm I'm imagining like a little girl is stuck inside this doll and asking to be released so where was she stuck before the doll came in? I don't know, that was not part of my research. Okay, so at this point, um, they decided to keep the doll in the apartment. Seems like a terrible idea. Well, the incidents did keep growing and at one point, annabelle attacked Lou.

17:09 Like physically. Yes, how so. Lou was in bed. All right, folks, this is not a cider. We are taking a pause for another drink. I finished the cider. It was quite good. Very, very subtle pumpkin. This one's called Snakes and Spiders. It's a barrel-aged pumpkin ale aged in bullet bourbon barrels from raised grain close to home. Where's it from? Um, waukesha, am I mixing my shit up? Yeah, waukesha, look at me, go, I remember shit. How does it taste? It's really good. Good, you can taste the bourbon, I like it.

17:50 So may I continue. No. So Annabelle attacked Lou. In his sleep. Yeah. So Lou woke up and is paralyzed like sleep paralysis, Weird yeah. And he looked down and he literally creepy heebie, jeebie, Literally. Annabelle was sliding up his leg. That's fucking weird and that's so creepy. And it wasn't a dream, no, well, hold on. So Annabelle slid up his leg, ended up on his chest and tried to strangle him. With her little doll hands With her little doll hands. So he didn't know was that a dream? Was that real?

18:30 I've got no idea. He's got no idea. I like to believe in the paranormal because it's interesting to me, but so he passed out and woke up, not knowing the truth. However, he woke up with claw marks on his chest, which he probably gave himself, it's very possible. so the warrens, through this medium, heard about the doll and so the medium they contacted, those people contacted the warrens heard through them. Okay, yes, and they actually came over to talk to donna and investigate. Yeah, exactly, okay and um. They said that there was a damn, a demon, attached to the doll, but it was not possessed, as inanimate objects cannot be possessed according to only humans?

19:19 yes, or I guess yes, maybe not humans per se, inanimate meaning a stuffed animal, right, but a human animal, something or other. Right, so this doll is somehow attached but not possessed. Interesting, yeah. So Ed agreed to remove it from the apartment. And when they're driving back to their museum, which is not their home, which is a common misconception because of some of the movies that are out there, but they had a lot of like artifacts that they've collected over the years from all their investigations. Right, okay so, on their way back to the museum, the doll attacked them the brakes in their car and the steering continued to fail, like off and on would continue to fail maybe they needed to take it to a mechanic and so they were transporting her to the museum at the center for paranormal research okay, which is what they?

20:13 that's, their museum, yes what's it called? again sorry, center for paranormal research, okay, okay. So they stopped the car and they doused the doll in holy water, water, jesus. And then they made it back to the, to the museum on her. They just have like a squirt gun I don't know what they do or like a spray bottle, like a windex bottle full of holy water. Yeah, pretty much. Oh, that's great, jerry. What's that? One movie where he like it's a spoof movie and he's like they're spoofing my big fat Greek wedding and the dude's just got hummus in a fucking speck of. Anyway, sorry. So, so originally Ed placed the doll next to his desk at the research center.

20:55 Why would he do that On a chair? Okay, okay, and did it wake up scratching him? Supposedly she would move around in the chair and was even seen levitating. Who saw that? How they didn't put that doll through a shredder, I don't know. Yeah, burn it. I mean Something. Just put a stake in the ground, put the doll next to it, bring it to stake. So a priest came by, he, they got lots of visitors, right. So a priest came by to visit, right, he picked up annabelle from this chair and called it a harmless doll and supposedly like threw it on the ground like rude I mean you're a guest here, but whatever but that probably pissed annabelle off it pissed annabelle off. So when he left, his brakes failed and he nearly died in the middle of a busy intersection.

21:37 But he didn't. He didn't. However, the warrens did blame the doll of course they did, because that's their mo another came. Couple came to visit and mocked the doll as well. On their way home they got into a major car accident and the man of the couple was killed wow, because that's can be totally just tracked back to that the warrens again blame the doll and they had her locked up behind a glass case, where she still remains to this day right. Are the warrens still alive? No, okay, are you going to get to that? yes, okay, sorry in 1971 they encountered the Perrin family Perrin yes, okay Roger and Carolyn and their five daughters.

22:22 They had five girls. Her name was Carolyn. Perrin, carolyn Perrin. Yeah, I feel like that would be a tongue twister for me. I feel like Carolyn Perrin would be like a sitcom mom Right, yeah, no kidding. Sorry, carolyn Perrin, we're not making fun of you, we're just we like your name we like your name so seven family members. Right they move into five daughters yeah, they were all daughters damn, that's a lot of daughters yeah, so they moved into a 14 room farmhouse holy shit 14 rooms in harrisville, rhode island, did the master bedroom. Have an ensuite anyways that's not part of my research, I'm just joking.

23:02 From the very first day, carolyn, who was bringing in boxes into their new house okay, saw a shadow of a man through the kitchen or it could just have been a shadow her sister coming up behind carolyn, also with a box. Well, because they were moving, also saw this shadow of a man. Okay, a third sister. You said this was in rhode island, right, yes, okay, a third sister. Saw the man as he was vanishing oh, so the other two never got the pleasure no, so carolyn, her sister, saw the man right. The third sister saw the man as he was disappearing right, basically he was evaporating at that point.

23:46 Yes, so more activity starts to happen, right? Oh, dear items go missing. Scratching sounds, random piles of dirt, like maybe their five-year-old is like wanting to practice her sweeping skills. I don't know, but there were random piles of dirt. Sweeping skills, yes. Is that a common practice in 71? No, but little kids like to pretend vacuum and pretend sweep. Does Vesper not do any of that? She goes to the trash, can. She's been able to throw stuff at the trash can forever. I know exactly. It's fantastic and the way she discovered it was like we discovered it. She's like how do you even know to do that? I mean, xavier likes to help, yeah.

24:32 So Carolyn started seeing an older woman. She saw objects moving, and then the children eventually began seeing spirits. Alright, carolyn is the mom, the mother. Okay, for some reason I fucked up A lot of the activity was centered around the mom. Oh really. Okay. So Carolyn started investigating the history of the house, and it turns out there were eight generations of the same family that lived in this house over time you know damn well, some of those people died exactly eight generations many, many deaths right, that's, that's so. like again, I've mentioned this, I believe, right in previous podcasts. I have a very old house. Yes, my house is 10 years older than Wisconsin.

25:15 Yes, I guarantee someone has died in my house. Yeah. Because that's a long time. Yeah, let's not talk about that because, I babysit your kids. Okay, I'm going to get a Raggedy Ann doll. Oh, my God. If you do, you're like I'm never babysitting your kids again, I'm going to get a Raggedy Ann doll. Oh my God. If you do, you're like I'm never babysitting your kids again. I'm never. All right, fine. So there is a nearby lake off this house, okay, and many of the younger family members actually drowned out there. Oh, so not even in the house, though. Yeah, well, a lot in the house, but many in the lake Right. Yeah, some in that.

25:55 Well, a lot in the house, but many in the in the lake Right. But the worst entity, oh, dear they believe was a woman named Bathsheba Bathsheba Bath B-A-T-H Mm-hmm. Bathsheba. Yeah, that sounds like a cat food. She lived in the mid 1800s. Okay, she was the mistress of the house, if you will. So she was flirting with the man of the house. No, she was just trying to take control over Carolyn. I don't think Roger was really in on anything, but the entity of Bathsheba was trying to possess Carolyn the mother. No, I meant like when Bathsheba actually was alive, you said she was the mistress of the house. Yes, so she wasn't supposed to be there. No, she was mistress of the house.

26:35 Yes, so she wasn't supposed to be there. No, she was. Oh, I'm confused. She was like man of the house. Oh, mistress of the house, oh, so you're not doing a scandalous? No, oh, no, my bad. She was believed to actually be a Satanist. A Satanist, yeah, and she would do like seances in her house and everything bath sheba would yep so, needing help, the parent family invited the warrens into the house okay on her first visit, lorraine would walk through the house and try to pick up on anything paranormal and how did they describe how she would do that? So she would essentially just kind of quote, unquote, try to be one with the house.

27:17 But, they didn't bring in any equipment. It was literally just Lorraine walking through Because she's a clairvoyant, Ed would rely on her to say yes, there's something here, or no, there's nothing here, Gotcha. So she picked up on a female spirit Of course. And, like I said, ed would follow her intuition. So Lorraine suggested a seance, so they left and they came back like a little while later. So, this is their second visit of the home Gotcha and Carolyn says that she wants to know what's happening. So yes, let's do a seance, Sure because she's the one being affected the most. Roger is skeptical. Skeptical, but he also agrees because he's no, he knows his wife is suffering.

27:59 Yeah, so during the seance, an unforeseen force takes hold of carolyn. The force picks her up from the chair and throws her back down onto the floor that couldn't have felt good and then she started speaking in tongues, like just a language that nobody knew, right? roger is downright petrified, right? So roger stands up and tries to run to carolyn, but ed stops roger from intervening as he could make carolyn and the situation worse. Roger ends up punching ed. Oh dear dear. And goes to her. The seance ends and Roger kicks Ed and Lorraine Warren out and tells them never to come back.

28:43 Well, I feel like that was a mistake. The family continued to live in the house until 1980. Oh wow. And then is when the haunting ceased 1980, it stopped. Yeah, I didn't find any information on what happened in between those times. Then is when the haunting ceased 1980 it stopped. Yeah, I didn't find any information on what happened in between those times. That's too bad, because I feel like, especially knowing that in 1980 the haunting stopped. Because they moved out of the house. They ended up moving in 1980. Do you know, did somebody else move in then? I did not include that as part of my research. She's shaking her head at me because I ask questions that she can't answer and she gets frustrated that she can't answer.

29:24 I try to anticipate what you're going to ask, and it never works. I'm keeping her on her toes, folks. So we're going to move on to 1974. Okay. And we're going to visit to 1974. Okay, and we're gonna visit jerry and laura gooden. Jerry and laura gooden and where do they? live. They live in bridgeport, connecticut okay and this is actually the same town that ed grew up in oh nice yeah, okay, so the warrens were actually called by a friend to come over to this house. It's on Lynn Lindley street, lynn Lindley, and the woman's like you've got to see this. I think she was a psychic medium or a friend of theirs. You've got to come see this.

30:04 Sure, when they arrived, the house was surrounded by police officers and firefighters. Oh wow, the warrants have recordings of police confirming that in the house they saw TVs move. There are three recliners like open and close, like they would lift out their feet Right, the foot rest part yeah. It would open and close by itself, and they even saw the refrigerator move. What Mm-hmm. They also have a recording of city engineers that were called in to see if it was maybe something, something weird, electric, electrical somehow did you ever, when you were a kid, call a place and be like, hey, is your refrigerator running?

30:50 I don't think so you should go catch it then I don't think I ever did sorry, but they would be called to see if it was something electrical. And in this recording they said to have also seen the whole refrigerator move. They stood in this hallway and they saw the refrigerator move from the right side over like through the hallway and into the left side. That's weird. It would be like we're in my living room right now and I've got a hallway right here. It would be like the refrigerator moving from the living room to the kitchen and I'm standing in the hall. That's so, okay, okay. So the police were like hey, let's get the fuck out of here, can you? can you blame them?

31:31 I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to be like what the fuck is happening right now so the good ends also called in a priest to do a blessing. They're like please, lord, do something about this. Do you bring some holy water? With him so he too. There's a recording of this priest saying that he saw a black mass in this house a black mass like a black hole type mass, no it's more of like um, not quite like a full body figure okay but just like a clump of black, I don't know just almost like a cloudish type thing or something or other. Yeah, okay so while conducting interviews at the table um with the cassette tape recording um of ed and lorraine and the family members right, lorraine randomly gets a blister and she and you can hear it in the recording she's like ow, she's like what is that?

32:19 And other people were like it looks like a blister and she's like it feels like I just got a burn. Like someone put a cigarette on her, basically. Yeah, exactly. And Ed was like okay, you need to leave because you're too sensitive for this as a clairvoyant, we need to get it out of this house to protect you. So Okay, they left behind a fellow investigator named Paul Enno. This is a person that worked with the Lawrence. Yes, okay, yes. He stayed behind and he started noticing an ozone smell Interesting, and then he saw a white smoky fog in ozone smell Interesting. And then he saw a white, smoky fog in the kitchen.

32:59 Ooh, he went up against it and he couldn't push through it. It was solid but it looked like fog, sure, and he said he could feel a bone structure, like how creepy, like the texture just sounds really creepy. Yeah, it's a fog, but he said he could literally feel like bone texture underneath. That's strange, yeah. So the mist went after the goodin's 10 year old daughter, marcy. Okay, marcy was picked up and thrown against the wall by this mist. What a dick move. They left the house immediately you don't say, say Holy shit. Marcy, however, was blamed by the police superintendent on air for making these large furniture items move without even touching them, apparently, and blistering Lorraine's hand by not being near her.

33:50 So they just blamed the daughter. Yep, they blamed the daughter. What, mm-hmm? That's some good fucking police investigation work there so the the superintendent claimed that marcy admitted to banging on the walls to make pictures fall off okay, I can see that, but how the fuck did this kid make a fridge? yeah, exactly how would she do that seriously? And there's also a video of the giant table being moved to. I don't know if it's part of this investigation or another I'm a pretty big guy, I can move a fridge, but a little girl yeah, 10 years old? no way, yeah. So ed was frustrated because he knew there were so many eyewitnesses that would have corroborated the family's story.

34:31 There's police, there's fire officers, there's civil engineers, there's priests all of them corroborated what this family is experiencing but yet they blame the little girl and they continue to say no, this was a hoax, good lord. so ed did get some validation because the police, um the police station, did offer the police officers to be recorded, which is what I referred to. So there was some validation for Ed a little bit, but the public was still skeptical. Well, sure. Yeah. That's wild yeah. Isn't that a crazy story? Yeah? I mean. So part of my problem with these stories is the fact that obviously I wasn't there and I understand these people believe what they saw, kind of thing yeah but like, really is that what happened?

35:27 it's, it's really, but at least okay so that compared to the annabelle doll yeah, yeah um, they saw these objects moving. That dude who got scratched by annabelle lou probably scratched himself in his sleep yeah, he just doesn't know even if he was just dreaming. He dreamt the annabelle doll was climbing up and he was scratching at himself to remove her or something. Yeah, exactly okay, that is explainable in real world. But if these people saw a fucking fridge move from one room to another, how do you explain that? yeah but again, I wasn't there have to be very unlevel, I mean you'd like to think an earthquake shook it to the other room, but I don't know how many earthquakes it get in Rhode Island, but either way I don't know.

36:17 Again, I want to believe, but I'm skeptical Same. Yeah, I want to believe that there's something out there, but my logical brain says probably not, because again we're more on the scientific mindset, if you will so we're going to move on to the Warren's more famous case. Okay. I mean, the last couple were fairly famous and we'll kind of talk a little bit about that later. Right, we're going to go to Amityville, New York. Yeah, Amityville Horror. Mm-hmm, so on Wednesday November. I'm sorry to interrupt. Are they a part of, like you know, of the movie Amityville, right? Yes. And the Amityville horror, blah, blah, blah. Yes, is that based on them?

36:59 I will tell you oh sweet, so we're going to go to Amityville, new York. We are when, on Wednesday November 18th 1974, at just 23 years old, ron DeFeor killed his entire family well, that seems like a six family members all asleep in their bed oh, good lord defao then walked to a nearby bar and claimed that his family had been shot, what like, like he just happened upon them. That's a dick move. So a few of his friends went back with him to look at the situation when they saw the bodies and they called the police immediately.

37:41 I would hope so. Yeah. So originally the police thought it was a mob hit because, the DeFeo family had some connections to organized crime. Oh really, ronald DeFeo Sr, his uncle, was a captain in the Genovese crime family, really and this connection led police to speculate that the family might have been involved in illegal activities that could have attracted the attention of the mob. Sure makes sense. So Ron was actually taken into protective custody. Wow. So he used his family's kind of. I don't know if he did or if the police just assumed. Just assumed okay. But while in custody Ron Jr's story seemed to change and details weren't adding up and he eventually confessed Sure, and he said that once he started he couldn't stop.

38:28 The voices told him to do it. That seems like a cop-out. It seems like he's mentally ill, yeah 100% Not possessed. not these voices made this entity made me do it. He was fucking mentally ill and killed his family because he was a douchebag. So Ronald DeFeo Jr was accused of six second-degree murders. Second degree, yeah, because it wasn't planned, I guess. He was to have six consecutive terms of 25 years to life. Okay, so he actually did die in prison at the age of 69 on March 12, 2021.

39:10 Oh, wow, so just three years ago. It wasn't that long ago, yeah crazy. The cause of death has just three years ago it wasn't that long ago, crazy. The cause of death has not been released. Maybe the voices did. And I know that was a question you were going to ask how did he die? It was not released. I beat you to that one About time. The house in Amityville remained empty for about 13 months. Is this what the movie is based off of? Yes, about 13 months. Is this what the movie is based off of? Yes, oh shit. Okay. So enter the lutz family. Lutz, okay. George and kathleen and kathleen's three children from a previous marriage okay. During this time, new york state law did not require realtors to disclose deaths that occur on the property that's fucked up however, they were told oh really, yes, this woman had morals oh well, good for her so I actually did read in a few different cases that they were told and they weren't told but.

40:05 I think definitively, they were told okay and because and because this house was significantly reduced in price, they went for it. So, regardless, the house started around $115,000, but the Lutz got it for $80,000. And then you said 81? Is that what you said? What? What year? 74. Oh, I'm sorry, 1974. 1974, oh, 1974, oh, this one's in 74, yeah, but I mean even 150 000, 115 000 and 81 god why do you keep saying 81 um, so 74?

40:47 that that's 74 was um, with ron defao said this would be 75 when that left moved in okay, but either way mid 70s 115 000 when they paid 80, that's over 500 000 today a lot for a house at that time. And even the 80 yeah that's. That's still a pricey house at that stage of the yeah, so history if it were today, I'd be over 500 000. However, the house because of the history yep is worth 1.4 to 1.9 million dollars if someone will pay that. So the let's family called in a priest to bless the house okay and he was supposedly slapped across the face. The priest was the priest was by who?

41:29 An unknown entity. They would see black ooze drip down the walls. That's a mold problem. They had foul smells that would permeate throughout the house, despite trying to get rid of them. Okay. They heard disembodied voices, footsteps and other strange sounds throughout the house. Wow, the temperature in the house would suddenly drop or rise without explanation, even in the middle of summer oh geez the letses claim to see have seen ghostly figures, including a woman in a flowing white dress and a demonic face in the attic window. Oh nice, and there was a pig-like creature with glowing red eyes, that would appear a pig like creature.

42:13 Yes, wow, yes, okay members of the family experience very vivid nightmares and episodes of sleep paralysis. Really, they literally lasted 28 days in this house. Holy shit, that's it they left everything they're like we're peace, we're out they didn't take a toothbrush, a pair of underwear, a snack, nothing. They literally left the house can you blame them? they never went back. It would have been possessed. I don't want to brush my teeth with a possessed toothbrush they literally. It literally looked like they just went to work or run errands and come back like there was nothing gone yeah, they literally went to on their day, their regular day, and said nope yeah wow so after they moved out, um, the let's went to the media.

42:59 Okay, they went to channel five in new york and one of the reporters was actually working on a story about paranormal, paranormal events. And she's like, heck, yeah, let's do this, I'll take that story um. The reporter's name is laura didio. Didio and the reporter is how the warrens found out about this case okay the reporter organized a meeting with george let's and the warrens and he described what happened in the house. All right, so the warrens went to investigate sure did the very first time that they went, lorraine took a relic with her that had been blessed by many priests. As she climbed the stairs, she was forced to stop on the landing before continuing up, so it was like a 90 degree turn type of stair.

43:46 Okay, so there was a landing right at that corner. Right. She said it felt like a force was holding her back, almost like a waterfall was holding her back. Almost like a waterfall was holding her back. The weight of water like on her body was keeping her from moving forward. Okay, at the very same time, ed, who's going down into the basement, feels the same force. He even described it as water. It felt like water was being forced down onto his head and his shoulders and he ended up falling down the stairs. At least he made it down. And he had a crucifix with him and he got all like, leave me in the name of the Lord, etc.

44:27 Etc. Right, oh Lord, okay. So they ended up surviving. Obviously, they left the house Two weeks later. They would return again, this time with the reporter. Oh Laura, what did I say, laura Didio? Didio yeah. Mm-hmm. There were other paranormal investigators and psychics with their friend, mary Pascarella, and she was the one that called ed originally out to um the parent household gotcha. So she was a part of the seance and the reporter was, as well as a few other people that would work with the warrens okay so they held a seance and, based on what the reporter said, lorraine felt a demonic presence almost immediately once they got into the seance.

45:13 I just want to be like oh, of course you did. The other psychic, mary Pasquarella, felt that there was a warlock who was there at the house as it was being built in 1927-28. I saw two different dates on this one so side note. So just a man who was practicing witchcraft, essentially. No, I get that. So when we were little, my dad would always go I am the wizard, Because he would get something done or whatever. Yeah, and I'm like don't you mean warlock, Sorry. That's okay. So this warlock, mary said, brought a lot of negative energy and dark energy with him, I would expect.

45:55 However, they said that they did not quote reach the other side like the other like they didn't quite get through through the portal, I guess yeah but many of the witnesses actually felt really sick afterwards well, I mean. so maybe they ate some bad shrimp, I don't know. Right after the seance a cameraman went up to that same, landing on the stairs that Lorraine was on, okay, and he ended up grasping his chest in an obscene amount of pain and keeled over. He survived, but it was such a huge pain in his chest. The reporter said she literally saw the blood fall out of his face so maybe he had a heart attack, it's possible or a stroke or something, yeah right.

46:42 So after this experience, mary pasquarello refused to go to any other haunted house you don't say she died in 2011, um, but there were um stories of her helping police officers as a psychic during investigations. So she kind of continued that path but never did more haunted house stuff. I don't blame her. So the Lettses let the bank foreclose on their house and they moved to California and the Warrens stayed in contact because Do tell. There ended up being a book about them and a movie about them. And payday the Amityville Horror.

47:22 Mm-hmm. So the Lutzes provided the author, jay Anson, with over 45 hours of audio recordings and, based off of the audio recordings, he the amityville horror. That's crazy. Yeah, so they didn't necessarily speak directly to each other, but they handed off all of their recordings, gotcha okay so the warrens were actually not mentioned in either of the book or the movie sure but they still catapulted to stardom because of it, yes, because they were associated with it, even not in those avenues. Yes, gotcha so they were asked for interviews, speaking engagements and college lectures. Wow, and that's where they would play audio clips and video clips and pictures, like they would have all sorts of proof in their minds proof yeah, proof is very loosely used there.

48:13 Yeah, in my opinion of of like what they have encountered right. So, of course come, the fans come, but also the critics come, of course as they should, because very suspect, very like, really did this happen yeah so to appease them, Lorraine actually went to UCLA and was tested for her clairvoyance. How do you test for clairvoyance? I don't know. However, she went to a Dr, thelma Moss, who became a parapsychologist. Is that like the Thelma from Thelma and Louise? Anyways, I like derailing Kate's flow.

48:53 Anyways, I like derailing. Kate's flow. So with these tests, Lorraine is known as a light trance medium, light, trance medium, and what does that all entail? So it is a medium where you can be in a psychic trance, but you are partially aware of what's going on around you. So that's what they labeled Lorraine, as as there is also a deep trance medium okay and those are where a spirit guy comes through and that person has no idea what's being said basically, the spirit is controlling you yes, you don't know what's going on. Yes, okay so she's the light version of that, where she has some control. Control, yes exactly so she is said to have had a, but well above average abilities again.

49:40 So quote-unquote proof of her clairvoyance. Is it though, so by the 1990s they were the world's most sought-after paranormal investigators? so because no one else was doing it so get this. They create a ghost school ghost school yeah, and they. They would have people come in and learn their ways, essentially, and continue on with their investigations how do you teach clairvoyance? I don't think it's so much that it. It's like here's the equipment and here's how you investigate. I know I just have to say it's like well, if you don't have that, what's the fucking point?

50:21 There are other ways, jesus. Okay, I'm going to bring this up then real quick. I'm sure you've at least seen or for sure have heard of all those TV shows, right? Yes, where it's like they're blown out of proportion. Paranormal investigations, blah, blah, blah. Did you hear that? And they'll play something that they heard and they literally say it sounded like. But they're saying that, so that's what you think it said. Yeah, they don't ever let you make your own fucking decision on it. And do you know how many ghosts they found on all of those shows? Probably none. Literally fucking zero. Yeah, because it's all just spooky.

51:03 Let's play with their mind. I still find it entertaining. I understand that, and that's all it is, though, and my point is it's entertainment, that's all it's there for. And my point is it's entertainment, that's all it's there for, it's not for actuality. So the purpose of these students in ghost school were to go into homes and buildings and observe and report back to the Warrens. They weren't to really do any investigative work yeah. They would just go in, observe and talk to the family and like, okay, here are warrants, here's the evidence that we found, and the warrants would decide whether or not they would take the case. So basically, they're seeing the relevance of their findings and be like no, throw that one out, throw that one out, yeah, possibility.

51:48 Yeah exactly that's kind of lame. So in 2001, ed suffers a massive stroke. Oh, his heart stopped and they had to use the AUD paddles to restart his heart. He ended up in a coma for about 11 weeks and he never really was the same. Oh wow, lorraine cared for Ed, moved his arms and his body to avoid bed sores. Keep him moving, yeah. He would change his catheter. He would or she would. She would. She would change his catheter. Why didn't the fucking doctors do that? I'm assuming that she was at home with him. I don't know. Got her again, folks Five years after his stroke on August 23, 2006, Ed passed away.

52:33 Oh wow, 18 years ago. Then Warner Brothers called Knock, knock, knock. Hey, we want the rights to your lives and your stories. We want to produce a movie. Oh, look at you. In 2003,. The movie the Conjuring on the Perrin family case makes it to the box office and they earned $300 million from the box office. Well, the movie did, the movie did yeah. Lorraine actually was a consultant on the movie. Well, I mean, it's about her life. So on April 18th 2019, at 92 years old, lorraine passes away.

53:14 Wow, she made it to 92. She made it 13 years after Ed huh. Yeah. That's crazy. Supposedly. That's just five years ago. Holy shit, I didn't realize she lived that long. Yeah, Supposedly seen on a security camera, Of course At the Undertaker's oh she floated away. You can see small orbs around Lorraine's coffin. No, you can't, or it's dust in front of the camera. I mean, come on. The Warren's son-in-law, who's married to Judy. His name is Tony Spira. He keeps up with the paranormal investigations. Oh, family work, he keeps up with the paranormal investigations oh family work.

53:54 He has a YouTube channel dedicated to Ed and Lorraine Warren called Official Ed and Lorraine Warren Channel. I'm sorry, but I feel like he's just cashing in on their fucking name. He also heads up the original New England Society for Psychic Research, which was founded by the Warrens. I have the old England one. And that site can be found at tony spiracom. I adore the conjuring movies. I watch them a lot. I think I've seen one of them I think it was the first one because there's multiple right okay the first conjuring us off the parent family. The second one is off of um, a family in england.

54:36 I did not talk about this case, but it's called the enfield poltergeist, and then they created the annabelle series yes, that's right correct oh, and there's a third, the conjuring movie, and it is based off of a man named arnie johnson who becomes possessed and he ends up killing someone and he actually goes to trial. Oh, um, and his um defense is he was possessed. Well, that's not a good defense obviously didn't get weird, I wonder why yeah, so that was like one of the more famous cases because it went to trial. Sure, no, that makes sense, but I don't know, I just I find it hard to get behind like okay, but I also haven't experienced anything, yeah, Of that nature.

55:24 So that's what makes me skeptical. Knock on wood? I'm okay, not, but you know what I mean. Annabelle, don't come after us, please. You know what I mean. Don't come after us, please. You know what I mean by that, though it's just I haven't experienced it personally, so it's like really did that happen yeah, but again I know, the mind is a funny thing and the mind plays tricks on people and there are illnesses and other things throughout the world that affect people differently yeah that have fucked with people's minds. Like, literally, what was the serial killer? He said that the neighbor's dog told him to kill these people. It's like really, did that really happen, or are you just psychotic? Yeah. You know kind of thing. But again, well, all right, knock on wood, see Superstition.

56:10 But I don't know. Interesting though, I mean, they spawned a franchise or a couple. Actually, yeah, but I found it really interesting that they didn't ask for any compensation. But they got a hell of a lot with those book deals. Well right, they clearly made a living doing this because of other avenues of revenue. Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly yeah, and well, so she was alive when the first movie came out, right? Yes that's do you? How wild do you think that was to her to see that? I'm sure it was wild, but they took liberties um it's hollywood so the enfield case the second conjuring, they had very, very, very little to do with it, but the movie made it seem like they were involved the entire time.

57:04 Well, yeah, because that's what's gonna sell it yeah, but they were not right so I mean they need to. Uh, I don't know and like said the parent family, like, kick the Warrens out. Right. Never to come back again. Yeah, it's like get the fuck out, man. Yeah, and in the country, don't come back here no more no more yeah, so so, and then um, in the conjuring movie. Besides Scream, you can't use that. I love Scream franchise. Hence why I said what I just said. Yes, what is your favorite horror movie? I do really like the Conjuring, however, I will also. I feel like that was an easy answer.

57:44 I know Cop out. I know which is why I said however Thank you. I will also include the movie Sinister. You had recently mentioned that to me. Yes movie sinister you would. You would recently mention that to me. Yes, it is with ethan hawke okay and he is an author who moves into the house of a murdered family to investigate. But he's writing a book about it, okay, and his family doesn't know that that's the house that they're investigating, any uh, other notable people besides ethan hawke? no, okay, fair enough, no, um, but it's a really great movie. I really enjoy it. I'll have to watch it, I have I think I've seen the second one, but there's more than one yeah, there's two, but I don't remember much about it so, but I really enjoy the first one all right.

58:29 So this is what I ask of hopefully, more than just Al Please send us an email, a voicemail, or send us a text Link on our website. I would like someone to send Kate a horror movie suggestion. And a book, and a book. I need a book. A book that will scare her. Yes. Preferably. Preferably need a book, a book that will scare her. Yes, um, preferably, but someone please send a book recommendation and or a movie recommendation, because she does love that. I am not a big. I'm not as big into the horror movies as you are. To me they're very predictable and I don't like knowing and I'm not saying all of them are and I haven't seen obviously all of them the ones I've seen are very predictable and I don't like that.

59:19 I want to be surprised, if you will. Yeah, like when I saw the Blair Witch in the theater all those years ago, that was pretty cool, but that was before the internet really was big yeah it was in its infancy. So they're, and they. They did a really good marketing campaign online of making it seem like, hey, this was a real thing. Yeah, nobody fucking knew at the time because you didn't have as much information as you do now with how the internet is. So that was really cool, although I did go to see it once with somebody and someone was just laughing the whole time so it really took away from the movie, but it was kind of funny at the same time. There is another movie I'm thinking of that I really enjoy, which is that.

1:00:01 It's called the fourth kind. the fourth kind I'm not familiar. And it's with Mila Jake Jake Jake Jake Jake Jake Jake jankovic. She's in some like stargate or something. Uh, the fifth element orange head a chick? no, um, oh my god, yes, it's mila or something yes, I'm just, I'm losing. She also was in days confused. We've talked about that before too so this movie is? she is a psychiatrist and all of her clients are sharing the same dream. Wait, am I mixing? up people Shit. Okay, go on. They all share with this psychiatrist the same dream.

1:00:43 How many people? Five, there's a bunch. Okay, gotcha Sorry. It's a small town in Alaska and they all know each other, but they don't know what they talk about in session. Well, you're not supposed to Exactly, so they all know each other, but they don't know what they talk about in, you know, in session, exactly. So they all have the same dream. That's weird. And what's it called? again, I'm sorry, the fourth kind, the fourth kind and it is posed like um blair witch, oh really, and that it's like. This is a real story, sure, and here's our here's, here's what it is. That's kind of cool, though and it's yeah, it's creepy and I love it fair enough. Yeah, that is, that's your jam, though you like. You like those creepy, scary, scary-ish movies, but like I also like harry potter and I like kate winslet's um the holiday and I like queen leticia's the last holiday, and I like pride and prejudice and hunger games, and I've got a wide variety of likes.

1:01:38 Well, I have a wide variety of likes too. I just horror. Never was really my jam, because yeah, I don't know how I got into it that's okay yeah, because I remember the first time I was gonna watch the original scream I was in like late middle school, early high school, something like that, and I was at a sleepover, oh dear, and her name was sammy um hi sammy um, she put it on like we agreed, let's put it on. And before even the first character was killed, I was like shut it off, shut it off. I can't handle it. She's like okayookie, wookie, that's funny. So I definitely remember that, but I don't know how I actually Got into that series. But it's, scream is my favorite.

1:02:19 And I like a wide variety Of movies as well. As you know, I've suggested Quite a few to you. It just I never really got Into the horror, and I've seen plenty, yeah, over my life, but they just seem too predictable to me have you seen hereditary? I don't think so with tony collette no, I have not that is a freaky, freaky, freaky movie. Yeah, the first time I watched it I was like damn, that was good, that was good and scary and okay. And I've seen it a couple more times and it's still just freaky. Every time is Is there? more than one or just the? one, just the one. Okay, I also really like when horror movies can be a standalone.

1:02:59 Yeah. And not like Halloween. 23. Jason has a baby. You know it's like. Wrong franchise, but yes. You know what I mean, though, michael. Myers. Thank you, michael Myers has a baby. Right, you know what I mean, though it's like, really, and he comes out with a fucking kitchen knife or something whatever. Cleaver yeah, a cleaver kind of thing. Michael Myers has a baby and he pokes his cheeks in the picture. It's like's like come on man. Yeah, who did I first say jason?

1:03:40 yeah, I meant that that's the um uh, that is, uh, you got this oh my god, oh my god, never mind we're being yelled at we're being yelled at uh, friday the 13th is freddie. Um, that's nightmare on elm street. Okay, then it's friday, the 13th is freddie. No, that's nightmare on elm street okay, then it's friday the 13th yeah, that's what it is nightmare on elm street. You're right, is friday, the 13th is jason because, like I, remember one, I'm it's, it's the fred, it's like jason in space, space. It's like jesus. It's like what, what, the fuck I mean they're literally just using the franchise to make any type of money it's like come on, man. I really enjoy when horror movies can be a standalone movie.

1:04:23 They don't need, they aren't bastardized by let's create three or four more. Or 20 more. Michael Myers has a baby, I'm glad you enjoy that. Or 20 more. Michael Myers has a baby, I'm glad you enjoy that. I feel like it takes away from it. Yeah, you know what I mean. For sure. And, like you know, have you watched any of the Rob Zombie remakes of Halloween? Which ones are those? Because I've seen quite a few, but not all. Well, they're not the original, they're the remakes, I mean. I don't know how else to really differentiate that. Are they still with jamie lee curtis new, then probably not okay, um, because rob zombie house of a thousand corpses and a couple other movies he's made.

1:05:06 He also redid the halloween movies because there's newer halloween movies with jamie lee Curtis, correct, and those are not Rob Zombie ones. There's a pocket in the middle of all those where he did some. Like Halloween 3, Halloween 4. I don't think I've ever seen any of those. He redid a movie called Halloween. It was a remaking of that movie. I'm going to have to look this up because I don't want to misspeak and say, no, I haven't, because I've seen a lot of them. So okay, rob, what other like horror movies have you seen? Have? I seen. I I don't even know because, again, I don't watch a lot of them.

1:05:49 I mean, I remember growing up on like the friday, the 13th nightmare on elm street, um all that shit, but I I don't really blair witch. Yeah, you know, I don't go out of my way to watch them I don't think I have seen. Maybe you should give them a try. Yeah, the rob zombie one. Yeah I mean I I haven't seen them either myself, but I did try to play so Rob Zombie, hence his name. Zombie was in a band called White Zombie. Weird. I did play Kate, just a remake by White Zombie of I'm your Boogeyman, and I mentioned he used a sample from I think it was from the original Halloween movie, if I'm not mistaken, in the beginning of it where the kids are saying blah, blah, blah, and it's a remake of a KC and the Sunshine Band song I'm your Boogeyman.

1:06:43 It's pretty funny. I like the white zombie version better, but anyways, the original, the KC and the Sunshine Band one is pretty fucking fantastic too. You can dance to it. Well, I think we need a scary movie-thon now. Well, all right, I think I'm going to have Kate try the raised grain one. Snakes and Spiders barrel-aged pumpkin it was pretty good. Okay, we'll try that. I think I need another one too. Well, yeah, so cheers to the Warrens RIP. Hopefully they're not, I don't know spooking people right now. I mean that would be fantastic full circle moment. I mean it would be kind of fitting yeah but well, anyways, I suppose all right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you.

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