0:00 Hey, buffoons, stick around to the end of the episode where we are going to have our very first the Origin of Weird story. We'll have a little look into it and what you can expect from our little companion podcast to this one and get a little sample of what weird stuff you might hear. Yeah, the Origin of Weird. Let us know if you like it and give us some weird stories. Yes, please send us some weird stories that we can look into, because we thought about this and we just want to find all things weird. We ran with it so hard. I kind of jogged. I'm not very fast.

0:40 Well, we know. I have bad knees, anyways. Stick around. Hope you enjoy this episode and stick around to the end for a sample of what you'll expect from the Origin of Weird. Oh, hey there, oh hey there. How's it going, Kate? I'm good. How are you? Oh dear, you do learn, I'm good. It's because I just listened to the episode back. Oh, so you probably wouldn't have asked me otherwise, probably not. Oh, I do notice that in our just regular conversations too, I always ask you how you're doing, and you do ask me sometimes how I'm doing but, not always.

1:27 Really. Yeah, that's so nice. I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying not always I think I do that with one of my good friends too she always asks me how'd you sleep? Fine, then cricket. Yeah. Don't respond after that asking about her talk to you later. Okay, cool either way um, so we've got a couple modellos, because I guess we weren't being very adventurous, nor were we at a place that had adventurous beers the place we went definitely is not adventurous for that, which is unfortunate. Um, we didn't really want to drive all around the area just to look for a random beer, so we're going with a tried and true classic Modelo.

2:13 Modelo, kate's go-to beer. And we even got some limes to shove down our cans. I thought that might sound funny, so that's why I said that it really did so. I was like I'm not shoving it down my throat. Oh, actual can. Actual can. yeah, oh, that just went into my eye. Was it the lime or the beer? The beer, thankfully. I say, at least out of the two, that's the better choice. Yeah. So I. I can trip on air, so You're not wrong. Okay, air. So yes, you're not wrong. Uh, okay, but uh, yeah. Well, cheers to uh cheers to the history. Oh hey, we're the history buffets. Oh yeah, see, that's why that one episode. I said it multiple times, just in case, but hey, we, we got it, we got there.

2:53 So cheers, cheers wow it got a little full because of my uh lion and I didn't it came out before I was prepared this is talent maybe next time we get pots bottles. Yeah, it's just easier with the lime, I guess do you need a tissue? I? need something? I need a bib anyways all right, so I've got a question for you. What is? your question for me have you ever stolen anything from a shop? Yes, really.

3:34 Yes, can you share. I was very young. It's actually. It was at a grocery store. Yeah, I happened to work at that grocery store and, uh, the funny thing is, the thing I took is not what they claimed. I stole and fired me because of oh yeah, they said I was. This is when grocery stores used to have like video departments where you could rent movies and games and stuff. They said I was up at the service counter. They said I swiped I think it was a packers like highlight, like vhs cassette, and I'm like no, I didn't.

4:17 And uh, my at the time girlfriend, bless her heart, who can't tell a lie uh told her of other things that I may have swiped, which wasn't much. It was all shit. That I'm not saying, I'm not justifying it was stupid to do. Yeah, um, but it was stuff that was like damaged or whatever. Yeah, it wasn't going to be put back out anyways, right. And uh, yeah, that was. That was not a highlight of my young life but uh but yeah, I never took that fucking packers vhs, though swear to god to this day and that's how you got.

4:59 They got fired from it they. They claimed I they had video footage and they claimed they saw me at the counter and I apparently had my hand and I wouldn't. Swiped it in front of me, hit the cord, swiped it in front of me and, uh, they never saw it again and I'm like, no, I didn't. But the funny thing is they pulled in my girlfriend first to talk to her and which is also rude, very rude, and they're asking a question like so does uh, do you see anything new at brad's house? It's like what, what? What are you talking about? but yeah, he put in some new light fixtures, yeah it's like his parents put down new carpet.

5:40 I mean is that what you? mean, yeah, what do you, what do you get a man here? So they went, they went about it a very shady, very shady way and, yeah, I wasn't proud of it right that was dumb. You know, stupid adolescent stupidity. Yeah, basically, yeah, how about you? Oh yeah, I know you've, you've told me before. Yeah, I've taken Chapstick. That was probably like the one I remember most Okay Is that? because you take it a lot. No, no, I think it was at a Walmart and I took like a Burt's Bees Chapstick.

6:24 Ooh high end. I know Nice and I I took like a burt's bees chapstick. Oh hi, ed, I know nice well castor oil and lip products don't really work well for lip skin okay I'm an esthetician, hi, how are you? Hello so burt's bees, I don't think all of their products have castor oil, but some don't, so I think I probably grabbed one that didn't have castor oil in it, and so that was cool um. So yes, I have stolen um chapstick since I've been an esthetician, which is about eight years oh, dear I know I'm so bad you need to not do that again. Nope, it's just not worth it it's not, and I've also stole like stickers oh, like from hobby lobby, yeah yeah, I I hate, I love to hate hobby lobby and I hate to love, hobby lobby yeah, I'm the same way with them, like sarah will let it go there once in a great while and I'm like do we really have to?

7:21 then we go in. It's like, well, that's a cool sign. Fuck, why am I here? Yeah, there's so many really cool stuff and lots of great craft stuff that I enjoy, but I really hate their LGBTQ stance. Well, I mean, that's what? Yeah, I hate that they're closed on Sundays for religion, but you know I'm kidding To each their own, but you know I'm kidding to each their own, but you know, either way, Well, the story I'm going to share with you today involves thievery. Oh, I know See the segue there that was pretty smooth. Yeah, it was seamless. It really was. Yeah. OK, so we're going to go to London.

8:03 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so London was going through a massive transportation transportation first one of the. That was pretty great. I'm gonna use that as a soundbite. Oh man, that is fantastic london was in a transformation. Oh, not transportation. Nope. How's that go again? Boop, boop. Jesus Just wanted to get a clearer one to use as well. So cutting those out, it's going to be great. Okay, so this is in like the early 20th century, so around 1920s. It was basically a city of contrasts.

8:44 Sure. So they had lingering effects of world war one right and then they also had like a ton of modern advances okay so they were experiencing like a huge economic growth um particularly in finance and entertainment as well. Sure so the city became a hub for art, literature, music, um music writers like Virginia Woolf. Yep, I know her. And TS Eliot. I know him. And jazz music came onto the scene Really. Mm-hmm, I guess, because I mean Well, I mean, they kind of gained popularity during that time. Because I guess you think of jazz music. I mean, I'm not saying it can't go everywhere, but you just always think of like the South, new Orleans, all that stuff I wouldn't have been like.

9:27 Yeah, london had a huge jazz scene. That's kind of crazy to me. I didn't know that. But the BBC began broadcasting around that time. That's when it did Okay. And women gained more rights and freedoms, and thus came the flapper lifestyle. Right. So they kind of symbolized like a new era of independence. I was a flapper once, for halloween were you. Yeah, it was super cute, super cute. It was like pink and then the fringe was silver and black, so the pink would like show underneath the swing. Yeah super cute, nice yeah so, uh, london's population grew, with immigrants as well, okay, and they were modernizing the city with new buildings and infrastructure.

10:07 Art Deco became a thing, suburbs expanded, so like just a huge amount of growth, just a big boom. Yeah, okay, but despite all this growing the middle class, they were still having quite a bit of hardship, hey sounds like today. Yeah, so poverty, unemployment was still a major issue. Sure Makes sense. So, as the metropolis soared, there was a dark underworld beginning to surface. Like a Bubbling up from the. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you got that reference. Did they. Obviously the Great great depression happened. Obviously here were they affected by all that at all in that time frame, because that's getting close to when that would have happened it is, but I that was not part of my research I know that was kind of a stretch of a question so I apologize for that one, but I just didn't know if that had any effect over there as well, because obviously things are booming.

11:05 Right. I mean, things were booming here too, and then, right, it's not booming no more, it's not booming. Yeah, at least not for a lot of people. It's sinking, sinking. So there were a bunch of gangs that kind of formed during this time. And a lot of them were men-based, of course, sure, and they controlled a lot of the streets and they had a lot of greed. They they had to steal, essentially for survival makes sense so there is a specific gang called the elephant and castle gang elephant and castle. I mean, I like elephants yeah, you too it's my animal. So they were known for violent tactics.

11:46 Oh dear. Yeah, and a diverse amount of criminal activity Kidnapping. Okay, I was just going to ask do you have a list? Thievery, thievery, assault. Oh, dear, murder. Murder, oh dear. Murder, murder. So there's actually a neighborhood in London that is called the Elephant and Castle neighborhood. So is it just called that because of them? No. So that was the neighborhood they got their name from. Yes, they got their name from the neighborhood. Okay. And there is a tavern there as well, called the elephant castle tavern.

12:26 Can we go there? let's do that that we can podcast live from I believe it's still there but it's been like relocated so like I don't think it's like the original original okay, but it is still there, so to speak. I want to have you ever? you've never been to london, right, correct, okay, neither have I. But everything I've seen, it again. This is in movies and shit. In movies, you always see like them going to a tavern or or whatnot, or a pub they always have really cool fucking signs. I would love to see a sign for the elephant castle pub or whatever. I think that'd be kind of cool um, I do have a picture of the um neighborhood, yeah, yeah, I don't know if you'll be able to kind of see it from where you are, but I do have a picture of the neighborhood. Yeah yeah, I don't know if you'll be able to kind of see it from where you are, but you can describe it, and then this will be on our social medias too.

13:13 Oh, that's cool. They literally have a giant elephant with what looks like a rook from chess on its back for a castle turret or whatever. Yeah, and it's massive. Yeah, that's huge, and it's like right at the intersection of two streets. Yeah, is that? do you know if that's still there? I don't know I wonder if that is, I'd be kind of that would be cool that would be cool, I want to get a picture there. How about this? We go over there, we take a picture in front of that and we go to the pub and we record an episode perfect, all right done. Let's do it give us money okay, give us money so the elephant and castle gang kind of a long name well, I mean yeah, so it's the what unc no, oh, they're just called the elephant gang oh, I like it even better.

13:55 I mean, I like castles, but elephants are pretty cool yeah so they actually began their reign in like the seven, like 1700s 1780s is kind of about where that gang started, really and then just progressed from there. Wow, they were around that long and they would gather at that tavern and they and that's where they would like exchange their stolen commodities with each other okay, makes sense yeah, um. So that neighborhood kind of became the central hub and the gang had a bunch of female associates who also lived in the same neighborhood, sure, and they were pretty much groomed to be loyal to the men. Okay. This group of women brings me to the 40 elephants.

14:38 The 40 elephants. Okay, do tell it is an all female gang, really gang really operating around the same elephant and castle neighborhood that's crazy and they specialize in sophisticated shoplifting because there's a fancy way to do it well, clearly I gotta have your pinkies out and everything pinkies up all right so the 40 elephants initially operated under the protection of the male dominant elephant gang Sure. The men provided security supplies and market for stolen goods. Makes sense. And the women supplied the steady stream of high-valued items. Okay. So the mutual benefit between the two, the factions, pretty much thrived.

15:24 Yeah, they were just helping each other basically that makes sense so the reason why the gang has been around so long at least the elephant gang it was a family affair oh really. So it's kind of like mobbed up a little bit so, with the 40 elephants, the women, mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, they, they all were recruited in. So if you married a guy, you're part of the family? now, yeah, exactly, and they did this because there was a lot less chance of betrayal in the group. Well, I mean that makes sense because you're more loyal to your family and whatnot. So okay, I like it. So I read a book and of course, I forgot to write it down.

16:07 Oh well, who was it by? It is by um a person whose name I have coming up. Okay, it's called um Alice diamond and the 40 elephants, and it is by Brian McDonald. Okay. So who's Alice Diamond? Are you going to get into that? I am Okay cool. So I'm going to have a couple quotes from that book. So here's one of the quotes. The longevity of the 40 Elephants was largely due to keeping it in the family. There were dynasties of shop thieves. Families kept things close to themselves and even robbed together, partied together, shared the spoils together and got sentenced together.

16:48 I mean, at least they did everything together, then that's awesome. Yeah. So as the gang grew, their shoplifting became pretty successful. Sure, that makes sense. But they also learned how to defend themselves. Violently, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah defend themselves violently, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, so there was still a lot of um confrontation between, like rough men in the area and these more demure women, and so they, they roughed up these men and cops, and even shop um clerks, if necessary, to get away with whatever what they were doing, yeah. Exactly Okay. So they actually had hat pins in their hats as weapons, as like their weapon of choice.

17:31 Sure Makes sense, and I mean easily concealed and easily accessible. No one's really going to think of she's got a hat on. I mean, that was a common thing back in those days. So yeah, just make sure it's nice and pointy, yeah thing back in those days. So, yeah, just make sure it's nice and pointy, yeah. So as the women grew more independent in their scheming, they became um independent of the elephant gang okay and they elected a queen and is that the alice person? no, oh so they needed a woman with brains to plan and the ability to fight right so they elected mary carr mary carr c-a-r-r kind of figured it might be a double r there so she had a strategic mind and a lot of great organizational skills, and she allowed the gang to like, refine its methods and increase efficacy sure so she instilled a sense of discipline and purpose in her members, transforming them from petty thieves into an actual force Right, yeah.

18:30 Force of nature. You're not going to go steal someone's purse off the side of the street. You're actually getting real shit. Yes, yeah, yeah yeah, no, chump change, chump change. You don't want that. So Mary Carr was born in 1862 in London. I don't want that. So Mary Carr was born in 1862 in London. Not much is known about her youth, but she did begin stealing from shops by her teen years. Okay, so she started pretty early. She did Gotcha. So one of her favorite ruses was to pretend to have lost her purse, of course, and tearfully asking a gentleman to provide her some bus fare to get home. Right. And as he was searching for his money, she would snatch his watch, oh, and chain and then run like mad, like like he knew exactly what was happening and she was just gone so it wasn't like concealed, like he knew that, yep, okay she just took it and ran wow and she has been caught doing this ploy, and one of her sentences for this was four months of hard labor.

19:28 Hard labor for stealing a watch and chain or whatever. Yes, wow, yes Okay. So hard labor could be, breaking rocks into smaller rocks. Right. Construction work, factory work, yeah, anything considered difficult, long hours and kind of dangerous. Right right. Hard labor in the 1920s. All right, then Wow. So another ploy that Mary Carr would do was to pretend to be lost and upset until a man offered to walk her home, and then a gang of women would all jump in. I kind of figured that's where that was going, because you know you lure them into an unsuspecting area and then strength in numbers kind of thing, so okay it has been said that she makes about 40 pounds on a daily basis, which would be three thousand dollars today.

20:15 Wow, on a daily basis three thousand dollars a day, like obviously today, that's crazy yeah I mean that's, that's a pretty good income, yeah so another ploy inside the shops. It was very common for one woman to more than one woman to enter together. So right one or two would distract the clerks with questions, and then the other would shoplift makes sense, so stealing became enticing even more as department stores started forming, because that wasn't a thing, it was all boutiques yep so they would. Those uh stores would draw huge crowds and the merchandise was no longer behind countertops, it was out in the open, which also wasn't a thing no, I was brand new to all of them.

20:58 Yeah, so patrons could look and feel, touch the merchandise, try on the merchandise, exactly so I wrote down payday so as the 40 elephants success crew. So did the attention from law enforcement, of course. So recognizing the need for, like a new generation of leaders, car groomed Alice Diamond. That's the one, okay. Yes, Gotcha. She was charismatic, intelligent and had a natural talent for crime. Oh, how did she have a natural talent for crime? Do tell. Her father was a con artist. Oh, really, mm-hmm, Okay yeah.

21:40 So Diamond's rise to power marked a turning point for the gang. She envision like a future way beyond even what they were doing now okay, so she wanted to amp it up. Basically, yes, gotcha so alice diamond was born june 20th 1896. Her parents thomas and marianne diamond. Her father had a criminal criminal. He had a criminal record sure did um, he even had a conviction for assaulting the son of lord Mayor of London during a political gathering. Lord Mayor of London. That probably is not a good person to attack? Probably not. So Alice was the eldest of seven or eight, depending on the location that you read this.

22:26 Oh, really, it varies a little bit there, it does yeah. Okay, gotcha. Her younger sister, Louisa, would later join the 40 Elephants gang under Alice's leadership. Gotcha and her brother, Tommy, was also involved with the Elephant and Castle gang. Oh really, mm-hmm, so literally a family affair. It literally is All right. So under Diamond's leadership, the 40 Ele elephants evolved into a super sophisticated criminal network, sure so. They expanded their operations across the country. It's no longer just in london, really, wow. So diamond's strategic mind, combined with the gang's audacity and their skill, yeah they became pretty feared I would imagine I mean not just by law enforcement but by anyone that heard or knew about him, because, well, I don't want to get robbed right, whatever shop owners and whatever and they're known for their violence as well, with the elephant in castle gang right, and I mean personally.

23:28 If someone came up to me, it's like give, give me all your money. I was like, yeah, I don't want to die. I mean, I got kids here you go. Yeah, it's not much. So there was no formal election or group discussion to get Alice Diamond to be the queen of the gang. Sure. Women just naturally fell in line behind her, as she was pretty trusted and self-assured. So she was just a natural leader for these people, yeah. So some of the members still remained loyal to Carr, but Alice's determination and her mind pretty much persuaded all these people to follow. So was Carr still like she was still a part of it, though, right, she was still a part of it.

24:09 Okay, so she's not like well, I'm retiring so now Alice is in charge. Right Alice just kind of eventually took over. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So to solidify her position, alice engaged in a series of confrontations, oh, demonstrating her willingness to use violence and basically command respect. What was her go-to act of violence? She would literally wear diamond rings and use them to punch people out. Oh yeah, that would hurt. They earned her the nickname Diamond Annie. Diamond Danny. Diamond Annie. Oh, Annie, sorry.

24:52 Yeah, that's what she used. She used her rings. That would hurt, especially if they stick out at all. That's not going to feel good. If you can land a solid punch. Okay. Diamond Annie, that's funny. And her last name was Diamond, that is pretty great, pretty fitting. I mean should have saw that one coming. Diamond, that I mean is pretty great, pretty fitting. I mean should have saw that one coming yeah. So, once in control, alice transformed the 40 elephants into a highly efficient and disciplined criminal organization. Right, she implemented pretty strict rules and severe punishments for those who dared to defy her. Oh. And I will kind of get into that a little bit more. Okay, cool.

25:32 And to expand operations beyond London. They went to Birmingham, manchester and Liverpool where they were kind of in relative anonymity. Well, yeah, because they weren't in those areas before right. They were just strictly London. So because that you said is like like a, not a subdivision, just a town neighborhood um did before they moved out to like liverpool and manchester and all that? Did they have a pretty wide circle within that neighborhood, or did? they did frequent kind of the same shops okay but eventually, yeah, they had to move move on because they were, they were noticed eventually that's what I was trying to get to is because you only have x amount of shops, or whatever right you're gonna start being noticed.

26:21 Really like lock the fucking door up the chicks down the road or whatever exactly. So okay, I was just curious. So the individuals in the gang, they've kind of come across as like lieutenants and specialists and they were the ones who kind of planned and executed the heists. So I'll kind of explain some of the heists a little bit later. Oh cool, but having like this expertise and this hierarchy, it was essential in the gang's longevity. So they specialized in high-end thefts targeting affluent customers with high society, and they would strike swiftly and then they poof, they're gone.

27:07 Disappear Poof, all right. And of course they did not wear anything that they stole no, they just so. They basically just stole to resell it so they could make money off. Yeah they would like pay rent to like little uh storage facilities or basements and like store all their goods in there so it's like they're. They're running like their own little black market type of thing, okay so, to execute their elaborate heist, diamond also orchestrated a complex group of scouts and getaway drivers. Sure, I mean, that makes sense. So gang members were impeccably dressed and poised and they would infiltrate these upscale stores and they would distract staff and then discreetly pocket the valuable items.

27:51 Okay, so they were masters of disguise and deception. Sure they actually also use like counterfeit documents to rent these like safe houses and storage units and everything to store to store their goods and they just did that, so they couldn't get track to it. Basically, wow, okay so women will wear these like big, voluminous skirts sure and overcoats, and then they would have their, their platoons would have like special pockets yeah and that's where they would like hide their, their silks and their pearls and diamonds and stuff anything they could get their hands on. Basically okay, yeah, so al yeah. So Alice would put women in groups of three or four, and then each of those groups would be a team of four or five.

28:37 Oh, wow, yeah, Really. Yeah, and they would all go into the department store and wreak havoc. Essentially. So quite a group would go in there, okay. Yes, so here's some of their tactics. Oh, this is what I was waiting for. They would use a duplicate replica of an expensive piece and just kind of swap it out Like that was their like. So they'd see a piece they want, they'd replicate it and then they would just swap it out for the real one. Yes so it was less noticeable that it's gone. Yes, gotcha Okay. Another one revolved around chewing gum. What I mean. Another one revolved revolved around chewing gum, what I mean, like wriggly.

29:18 I mean, what are we talking here? Kind of yeah, um, so a woman would ask to examine, examine several pieces of jewelry, pendants, rings, and in the confusing shuffle of, like, picking up a ring going to the light, looking it under a magnifying glass, picking up another one, having several in her hand, all looking at them, sure, um, one would go missing. Weird, in this weird shuffle yeah, okay the woman would be searched and nothing would ever be found is it because it was in the gum? An ally would then enter, ask about pieces of jewelry, and she would run her fingers underneath the counter. Oh, so it's basically like when kids would put their chewing gum under their desk.

29:58 It's the same concept. Yes, the chewing gum was holding the ring up underneath the countertop and she would never be accused of stealing something. Because they couldn't find it on her. They couldn't find it on the first woman. The second woman they wouldn't need to search her. They couldn't find out on the first woman. The second woman, they wouldn't have a, they wouldn't need to search her no, because she wasn't around. She wasn't there. Well, that, and she's not doing anything wrong yeah in their eyes. She's just, I'd like to see this piece and then shuffle shuffle. Oh, there it is, yep exactly okay, that's pretty clever. I mean for for that. I don't think it would work today, but you know, that was pretty good so another heist was called the three card trick three card trick. So we're gonna do person one, person two, person three, so keep up. I'll do my best, you know me three women would enter a shop separately, okay okay, so it looked like they weren't together, correct okay?

30:44 Person one would have a loose fitting white coat. Okay, person two would try on a fur coat. Okay. Person one would take off her white coat Right, lay it down and underneath it she would have on a similar Fur coat Fur coat, okay. While the person person two is also trying on the store's actual fur coat, right, right, so was the one that she had under her white coat fake, it was hers. While the person two is also trying on the store's actual fur coat right. So was the one that she had under her white coat fake. It was hers. Oh, it was just her own. Oh, so basically, it's just trying to confuse, okay. So person three distracts the shop clerk.

31:25 Yeah, person two, who's wearing the store's fur coat, correct, puts on the white coat that was taken off right and person one and two would leave oh, so they just walk out with an extra fur coat. Basically, yes person. One is asked to come back because she's wearing the shop's fur coat, only to prove that it was hers so did they say how she proved that it was hers, anything like that? no, okay, no because, like, I mean, as long as it's not the exact same thing, you'd be like well, this isn't even actually yours, so this isn't okay. Yeah, this isn't even a brand that you carry right, right. They just kind of assumed because they saw her coat yeah, and then person two escapes and person three escapes wow, I mean that's.

32:11 Did it have to be a white coat? What was the significance? It literally was a white coat, I don't know I just wonder what the significance of the white coat would be. But you know or if that only happened the one time and it happened to be a white coat I don't know right, that's true, that's funny so, while the 40 elephants operated not autonomously. Can you do that one more? time Autonomously. There it is. That's great. Alice Diamond recognized strategic alliances. Can I just interject something? Here, real quick. What I really like how you say words I mean sometimes I mean that's just fantastic.

32:58 I don't think we have an episode where I don't fumble something. But that's the beauty of it, you're consistent. Sorry, I just wanted to put that out there, I enjoy your word salads. Okay, so Alice Diamond Strategic Alliances. right, I just I wanted to put that out there. I enjoy your word salads. Okay, so Alice Diamond Strategic Alliances, right? So she had a relationship with someone in the Elephant and Castle gang? Right. But having like this relationship provided a bigger network for selling these goods, okay, okay, so she was in a relationship with a man named Billy Hill Billy Hill and he was just a prominent criminal figure? yeah, member of the gang, basically, yeah, and he just kind of further solidified her position sure so alice had been arrested many times like everybody was has been arrested um.

33:46 She wasn't spoil proof um. She had stints of hard labor up to two months, four months, six months and then at one time she she was um doing hard labor for 18 months, holy shit, was that her longest? Yeah, as far as you know, yeah, okay or she was in jail, at least for 18 months. Maybe not hard labor, but either way, I mean being off the streets for a year and a half that's, that probably wasn't good for for the gang, basically so even with her leadership skills in jail, the gang was still highly active so did she kind of run it from jail then, so she would like when people visit and be like do this, this and this kind of thing, or I don't know if it would be that slick.

34:28 I don't know if she actually like corresponded with like in person or if it was over letters, I'm not sure that's all right. I just my mind always goes to like, like goodfellas or the mob movies. You know that you see, like they visit the, the captain or the boss or whoever's in prison or whatever they like, ordering hits and shit like that. So I was just curious if it was something similar to that. I guess, yeah, yeah so the k the gang had a code. Oh. So this is like the strict rules I was talking about earlier oh, that's right, yeah, okay so they called it the hoisters code the hoisters. That's pretty, uh. All right, I like it. So discipline is expected.

35:09 Of course. Particularly punctuality and attendance at meetings or on jobs. Well, especially on jobs. Playing the three car trick. Where's number three? Yeah, it's like she was supposed to be here 20 minutes ago. I mean, their shit's not going to work if they don't obviously have everyone there. So yeah, no, I, I totally get that so there was no drinking before a raid makes sense and they had to go to bed early you need your wits about you a member can ask to leave the gang, but can only come back if they're invited. Oh, okay so invitation only Members can be expelled.

35:52 Oh sure. Usually for just a period and then invited back. Gotcha. Being shunned brings disgrace to the family, which is the entire gang. Yep. A member expelled for treachery will not be trusted again and if they remain in the district, are liable to ridicule or a beating. Oh wow really so, unless they moved away, it's like well I'm gonna beat you now because, well, that's part of our code I got all, all eight rings on my fingers, oh dear I haven't put some of my thumbs, all right um, the queen or group leader is not to be held responsible when things go wrong, sure, and it's generally held to be like misfortunes of war.

36:40 Okay. Okay, young family members are expected to join. Wow so like. I would say like teens Right. So like I have two kids. Xavier comes of age, he's, I know this is teens Right. So like I have two kids Xavier comes of age he's. I know this is the female side, but you know what I mean the elephant castle, one Well Xavier's, old enough, yep. Come on son, that'd be weird, let's go meet the queen yeah. Time to meet the queen. So most, Most beg to be taken in but they must accept training provided by the veterans. Naturally, I mean, that makes sense. So I did not look into this, but they had like a subscription, like dues essentially.

37:24 Well, yeah, and all the dues were held by the queen. Makes sense and that would be to hire defense lawyers. Sure, Well, and I'm sure that you know they got to buy more white coats or whatever it might be, there's stuff that they have to buy that they're not going in to steal a fucking white coat. They're going to steal jewelry and shit that's expensive. So yeah, I mean it makes sense to have dues because you need some equipment, basically. So you need to stab some guy with a hairpin. Can't do it if I don't have the hairpin right. I mean you're not wrong so so if a member is arrested, others must be willing to provide an alibi of course I mean, why wouldn't they?

38:07 Proceeds from a job are equally shared by the group members involved. Okay, no matter what their role so if, even if you were this, the, the getaway driver, but the person who actually lifted it, they get the equal amount okay nice members must not steal from their from each other sure that includes their boyfriends why did that happen in the story? Yes, oh, no, okay. Families must be looked after while a member is in prison. Sure. When one of the group is arrested, their share of the proceeds is held for them or passed to a nominated family member or friend.

38:50 Oh, so if, like Josie over here, got caught during it, they'll give it to yeah like her boyfriend or husband or whatever it might be right okay until she gets out. Wow, that's pretty, pretty nice of them really. Members do not wear what they steal no, you had said that, which is, I mean again, makes sense, because they're trying to well make money off of it. So and the last one is members must not aid the police in any way so basically don't be a snitch. Yeah, okay so all of that was taken from the alice diamond and the 40 elephants book by brian mcdonald's nice. So in the 20th century the 40 elephants pretty much modernized their methods, sure?

39:36 Um, they employed high-speed vehicles for transportation and escape. Alice herself had a black chrysler oh and they utilized the railroad system sure makes sense um. And then, beyond shop lifting, they actually started to do residential burglaries, and including blackmail. Of course Okay. Some members even secured employment as maids. Oh, so they could like case the joint kind of thing. Yep. All right, exactly Smart. So, despite their success, the 40 elephants eventually faced some internal and external pressures.

40:16 All right, so the internal power struggles like, particularly from the younger recruits they would be a little bit more rebellious and kind of would undermine leadership. They basically said well, we're doing all the work. We should give them more kind of shit or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And then additionally increase police scrutiny and stricicter laws, stuff like that. So ultimately, the combination of the internal external challenges led to the decline of the 40 elephants gotcha. So according to police records, alice diamond was arrested in 1925 for her involvement in several high uh profile jewelry thefts.

40:56 Okay, and she she did manage to avoid like lengthy prison sentences well, you said the longest one she had was 18 months. Yeah, I mean, for what she all did, that's really not that bad so the gang eventually did continue to operate under new leadership when Alice was in jail in that 1925 arrest. Right. But it never gained that same level of power and notoriety. It lost its luster. Basically, yeah, okay. So Alice Diamond's reign as the leader of the 40 elephants ended, but pioneer, I would think, think I'd say yeah, um, I mean other people would like overlook her women's capabilities and right she's demure and she's a lady.

41:44 No, she'll fuck you up well, yeah, I mean she diamond and annie, so why'd they say annie for alice? This is just kind of it fit better. Yeah, I think it just fit better. Diamond Alice, diamond Annie well, especially because her name was Alice Diamond yeah so it's just like it's like reading her her name in a phone book. Yeah, so okay, anyway, yeah so Alice um lived her final months um in a one-bed flat, and she actually had owned that flat for quite some time, like over a decade. Oh wow, she became paralyzed and lost the use of her limbs, and she died at only 55 years old. Oh, so pretty young. How did she become paralyzed?

42:25 She had multiple sclerosis. Oh, so medical Okay. Her sister Louisa, who was also in the gang. She eventually um had ms as well. Oh jesus, yeah literally a family affair yes, lord that's too bad yes okay so that is alice diamond and the 40 elephant gang of london obviously focused on the female side. More is did the? The elephant in castle, is that? Did that go defunct over time too? Did that not come across? you know I I skimmed quite a bit in this book because I wanted to focus a little bit more on annie diamond understandable or alice, diamond, um, and, and the actual 40 elephants.

43:10 Like 40 elephants is what I wanted to do. This story on Okay, and the elephant castle gang just kind of popped up here and there. I just didn't know if you knew, like if they were still a thing, kind of. I guess I highly doubt it. I mean, that's 104 years ago. There could be still you know that underbelly black market that we don't know about. Yeah, now it's called the dark web, exactly black market that we don't know about. Yeah, now it's called the dark web. I would love to go to that pub though. Yeah, that sounds fun, that'd be, kind of cool, even if it's not an original location, whatever. Yeah, they said it's down the street. Oh well, we're moving to new digs, guys let's go down the street but I don't know that'd be kind of, that'd be kind of cool to go see and see if they got some cool sign outside with the well, I mean that tower, not tower statue that you showed me it pretty much was a statue yeah it's, it's huge on the corner of that street or whatever.

44:05 Yeah, that was. That was pretty neat. I mean it's that's still got to be there, I would assume I would assume, why would you get rid of? that I, I don't know Unless. People are dicks. Well, I mean, you're not wrong there. That's a pretty common theme in the world today. Yeah. The more people there are, the more dicks there are. So hey, but unfortunately, 51%. Is that what the? number is I think it's 49 and women are 50. That's right. Something like that 49% more dick Wow. Isn't that? interesting? No, it is. I mean, typically, when you think of gangs, you don't think of a female gang, honestly, especially in the 20s?

44:48 Yeah, why would? you ever even think that? Yeah, because it's basically a male-dominated twenties. Yeah. Why would you ever even think that? Yeah, cause it's basically a male dominated profession. Yeah. Especially with, you know, the mob and all that stuff that grew up and whatever over time. But uh, no, that's I like that. That's pretty cool. I had no idea. Especially I liked the fact that it wasn't, it was in London too, and how they grew grew from there. Yeah, and of course I'm partial to elephants, so you are, I do like my elephants, yeah, but yeah, so yeah, no, that was. What do you think about researching the story, though? I mean, where? How did you find that one? that was pretty cool you know, pinterest has always been a good friend of mine. You do like pinterest a lot yeah yeah, and they have um little blurbs of, like, interesting facts that I've come across oh cool, and the ones that I find that are really historical and which fit in kind of our vibe.

45:40 I save those, oh very cool. Yeah, so that's one you found off of that. Yes, oh, that's awesome. Yes, no, I like it because that's something really different from what we've done before and I never would have guessed that's the story you had for us today. So I do, I did like that, well done. Thank you. So well, oh, hey there, oh, hey there, oh, hey there. Welcome to the Origin of Weird.

46:25 Yeah, this is our little companion podcast to our main History Buffoons podcast. We were I don't know basically what's the word I'm looking for, I don't know. We were were talking about stuff and it was just kind of came out of nowhere and oh yeah, no, we were. I think we were having a podcast meeting yeah, and we were like we were joking around with something and I'm like and we just I think I said you did yeah it's like the origin of weird. That'd be a good podcast name yeah, and we're like let's do something with that yeah. So it kind of came from a meeting we had or whatever, and we will kind of develop that into a little companion piece, if you will, for the History Buffoons podcast. So we're looking at all the weird, weird stuff not just main people or stories that we've been doing in History Buffoons.

47:13 So this is for just kind of random weirdness. Yeah, this is extra fun. Yeah. And these are going to be like mini episodes, so they're not going to be nearly as long or anything. No, they're just little again, companion podcast episodes for the main one and we just want to. Kind of well, that's weird. So we're on our quest to find the origin of weird, the origin of weird I still love that name. Uh-huh, it's so great. Okay, so do you want to know something weird? I definitely want to know something weird. There is a road in California called Dead Man's Curve. Dead Man's Curve Okay. Okay, so it's a stretch of a sunset bou Boulevard of LA, just north of UCLA.

47:58 Oh, so it's actually part of Sunset Boulevard. Yeah, oh, wow. So it's called Dead Man's Curve, as it's particularly dangerous for eastbound traffic. Not even westbound, just eastbound. Just eastbound oh weird. So the road ran downhill and then bent sharply to the left okay making it really easy for a vehicle to like accelerate above the posted 35 mile an hour speed limit and I guess they just they didn't want to ride their brakes or something, I don't know but they had a hard time slowing down sure um at this curve. So if the curve wasn't banked sufficiently enough, the cars would like over correct by veering to the right right because the other direction was a wall of trees oh yeah, that would.

48:43 That would not be good yeah, so it would cause their cars to spin out and swerve into oncoming traffic. Naturally, naturally, yeah. So there were three fatal accidents in a total of 26 accidents a dead man's curve in a two year period, around 1961. Okay, that's a lot of. Yeah, I mean in two years, that's a lot 26 accidents and three fatal. Wow All right, yeah. So one of the most famous victims. I was just going to ask if there's a famous person, yep. He did not die in this accident. So he is one of the injured, okay. Yeah, so he is one of the most famous victims of the dead man's curve and his name was Mel Blanc.

49:25 Oh, do you know who Mel Blanc is? Yeah, do tell. I believe in you. Isn't it? mel blink, maybe isn't he. Am I getting them mixed up, isn't? he the cigar guy? No, no, he's, uh, bugs bunny. Yes, damn it, you beat me to it. I corrected. I was thinking of, for some reason, I had george burns in my brain, but then he was an old guy who smoked cigars. Oh, but then yeah, so no, he was the voice of bugs bunny, he. He did a bunch of voices though, didn't he? Oh he did a ton, that's what I thought yeah. So he voiced Bugs Bunny, porky Pig, even Tasmanian Devil, daffy Duck, sylvester. Nice. So supposedly he had voiced over 400.

50:07 Holy shit that's how many Cartoon? Characters? Which one do you think he voiced when the police came on the scene and of his accident? Oh, I will tell you. Oh, really, so you think it is blank? not blank. I always thought it was mel mel blank but I, I don't know if that's correct. Well, shit, well, you know, blank, blank, tomato, tomato okay, well, mel mel. This is called mel, hey mel he was driving his aston martin. Oh, that's my favorite kind of car east well, of course he wasn't going west, because that wouldn't have been an issue and it was in january of 1961, and he suffered a head-on collision with another car, oh shit.

50:48 So he sustained multiple fractures, including his pelvis, and he had head trauma that left him in a coma for weeks, oh really, and he was completely unresponsive. Wow, yeah, that's wild so the doctor's family. They would all like, hey, mel come out, dad come out. You know they would try to get him to um come out of the coma just by like talking to him essentially makes sense, but he wouldn't respond at all okay two weeks into his coma, his neurologist from ucla medical center. Yeah, thought of something different. Play one of his voices. He was going to talk to a looney tune well, I mean he was asked how are you feeling today, Bugs?

51:34 Okay. After a slight pause, Mel answered in a weak voice just fine, Doc, how are you? Really that's, weird. The doctor then asked Tweety if he was there too. It was he, he was. Mel's response was I tall, I tall, I tall, putty tat. Wow, and now mel made a full recovery after that I never heard that of him. Good old mel, that is pretty, I mean creative way to do it, I guess because, why not? that's crazy, so um mel's absence from his shows were. It was relatively brief.

52:14 So he was out for two weeks and then he was at home in a cast for about seven months, so he had other voice actors, including his own son, fill in for him for several of the episodes that he was doing. Oh, wow. So the show producers even like set up recording equipment in mel's hospital room and then later at his home okay so he could actually work from there. Well, it makes sense yeah uh, so one of the only days after his release, he actually filed a five hundred thousand dollar lawsuit against the city of la because of the road, and that that would be about $5 million today.

52:55 Wow, his accident, with the other collisions and deaths that I had mentioned earlier, resulted in the city funding the restructuring of the curves at this location, and now it's like one just long straight road. Well, I mean that makes sense. So was he? He was like the final accident basically. I don't know if was like the final accident basically. I don't know if he was the final accident, but he was the catalyst. Well, yeah, he got it changed. I mean I don't blame him, because clearly that stretch was pretty stupid, very dangerous. Yeah, because of how many people got injured and three dead. But how weird is that. That is very weird, I like it. Especially because he came out of his coma talking like Bugs. Bunny, bugs, bunny and Tweety Bird.

53:36 That's wild. Yeah, that is weird, I like that. Well done, thank you Well. I suppose All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode. Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you. Next time Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore. Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on Reddit, x, instagram and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmailcom. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

54:19 Remember, the buffoonery never stops. Love it, love it. It really does me.