Soap Opera Plot: Zlata Filipović

0:16 oh, hey there, oh hey there oh come on, I just started. Oh man, that was like I think your painting got a little excited there, oh my gosh or just startled Something. Well, it startled me, jeez Louise. Oh dear. Am I really that animated? Sometimes, History just excites me. It's a passion. He's looking at you funny. I know. What's going on? I think we're going to put it next to you next time. That's fine. I'd say, throw it over here, but I know something will get knocked over if that's the case.

0:58 Yeah, we have precious beer. Well, luckily those aren't open yet. But anyways, we are the History, buffoons, the history. Yes, we're the history, buffoons, I'm bradley, I'm kate, and uh, welcome to another episode yeah, and this is our um unfinished painting oh so I didn't realize that I forgot the blue around the microphone, around the microphone. So now now it's bothering her and me more or less, but yes, now I gotta fix it. The funny thing is it didn't bother me until kate noticed it and brought it up to me and she's like I forgot the blue. I'm like, oh shit, you did. Now that's all I can see is like the non-blue the non-blue so we might have a little updated version of that in the near future oh, my burp is so close I know I can't wait for it to come out so I can add it to the burp track oh, it's so close, it's just sitting there, it's just all.

1:52 Of course, that could be my acid reflux. I mean, that's very possible too. I used to get like heart palpitations that would like shock me. Yeah, um, I think it was like stress induced or anxiety induced. I've got that before, yeah. And the doctors are like you're not having heart palpitations, it's acid reflux. I'm like okay, and so I've been on. I thought I moved, so I've been on acid reducer ever since and I'm out of it for like the last three days. Yeah, you had said we. I can tell you tried to find it and they only had the name brand super expensive stuff, which I'm not going to buy.

2:35 No, fuck that. I'll have Acid Reflex. It feels like a burp. I'm just waiting for it to come out during this episode. I know I hope it's epic, because this buildup is leading towards it and it's probably going to be super disappointing. I know I shouldn't have said anything. So what do we got to drink today, Kate? Oh, we have Pig Farmer by. By. Deusterbecks, deusterbecks. Yes, oh, was that right, not Deusterbecks. Deusterbecks yes. Oh, was that right. Not Deusterbecks, but yes. Can you tell why I would say Deutschland? You know, deusterbecks, it's spelled D-U-E-S.

3:16 D-U-S, d-u-e-s, I said D-U-E-S. Like Deutschland. I took you here once. Yes, I used to you. Yes, like Deutschland, I took you here once. Yes, I used to sell this beer. The bar looks like this Pretty much. Yeah, the bar is pretty much the barn. It's in an old barn. Yeah, no, they got a cool little thing going on over there. Yeah, I really like it. I like a lot of their beers. Yeah, okay. So where's this? At Where's this, at where's this? at elkhorn elkhorn wisconsin and um. This is a pale ale yeah, holy balls. All of a sudden I yawned, not allowed. Sorry, I need a beer let's, let's fix that right now.

3:58 I am. That was elongated. Cheers, cheers. It's not bad. What do you think being not being a huge pale ale person? A little on the lighter side of a pale ale so I kind of thought you might not like that, not mind. That one is what I meant to say farm fresh beer what would you feel about wine on a podcast instead of beer next time? I'd be fine with it yeah, you like wine I don't go out of my way to ever drink it. Typically, when it comes to wine, I'm usually on the sweeter side of wines like moscato yeah, stuff like that, which is like the real wine enthusiast, not wine like my dad was, yeah, it basically like I could glug, glug, glug.

4:45 And Like my dad was, yeah, it basically was Like I could glug, glug, glug. And that's why I don't buy it, cause I can glug, glug, glug. Nobody wants to see that. But, um, my dad was huge into wine and oh, okay, I didn't know that. Oh yeah, he what the fuck Like a subscription. Basically, yeah, a wine subscription. He would get random boxes with random varieties in it and whatever from all over from Napa Valley, which is huge in wine, and across the country and whatever Right he loved really. Did you hear it? Because I heard it. I heard it. What did it say? I don't know, I can't read that far.

5:28 Potential computer difficulties. Well, we'll get it out of the way now. Hold, please, and we're back. All right, anyway. So my dad was really big into wine. He really liked reds. He would drink white wines but he was a big fan of reds and my problem with reds is 99% of them. You drink room temperature. I don't like room temperature beverages. I don't like warm beverages, so I like cold. There used to be this restaurant. We would go to that. We've been beverages, so I like cold. There used to be this restaurant we would go to that. We've been going to since I was little.

6:08 It's unfortunately closed now. They used to have really good gnocchis with meat sauce, but it's called Albanese's in Brookfield. They would serve their house red and it would be chilled. I like that. That was good. You can chill a red. I do chill my reds. I can't not. Yeah, I'm like, like this is super cold right now. I know it's really good. Let me reach my beer, um. My favorite is pinot grigio. Okay, um, and I like that. It's more of a sipper for me versus like the muscat where it's uh, glug, glug 3000, yeah, yeah, that's understandable okay, so maybe we'll do that at some point yeah, we'll.

6:53 We like to mix it up. We throw a cocktail in here once in a while and yeah whatever. So yeah, we'll change it change it change it um oh, I have a pen in my shirt. I was editing earlier and I was using it. That's funny. You don't need a pen to edit on the computer and insert cricket sounds. Here I have a question for you do you really? I feel like it's been a minute I know it's because it's because most of our stuff has kind of been in depth recently a little bit longer.

7:39 Yeah, I would. I would certainly say that yeah so, um, this one, I think we could shoot the shit a little bit. Um, did you ever grow up writing in a diary or journal or anything like in full? Like? This is just for me. I want to lock on this thing. I know, um, I think I've attempted, I would say, multiple times in multiple times throughout my life. Yeah, the most recent one was probably 20 years ago, as a younger person, maybe a couple times.

8:23 I couldn't tell you when or whatever, I'm sure they haven't survived moves and stuff, but it was never really a dear journal. Right Today I had a thought it's like okay, yeah. Just never. Never was my thing, so what about you? Yeah, same I, I uh, probably started quite a few, and just no, I'm not a writer and it's not even so much. Not being a writer which I am not by any stretch I just I don't have that commitment, yeah, discipline, to do that every day. I know for some people it's a great thing. Not for me, yeah, so is what it is.

9:04 Yeah, that did not come from me. That was so weird. That came from like, that was like an elongated one. Yeah. It was just a at the end. But it was like a trail of. I know, it was really weird. Beer burp coming up and it took so long to come out, mine actually went down a little bit. Oh man, it was probably acid reflux. I'm so looking forward to hearing that one. I'll give you one later. I'm sure you will. You're having bubbles, so we'll get one in this podcast, but anyway, so yeah, so no, I never really did that. That wasn't my thing. Okay, so we are going to talk about the Yugoslav War.

9:46 Okay. Do you know of it? I mean, I think I might have heard of it. I couldn't tell you a damn thing about it. It happened in the early 90s. That's probably why I heard about it, because I was alive. Yeah. Interesting Okay. So the country kind of went into one of the biggest breakups ever. So Yugoslavia was like this big, united but kind of dysfunctional family of nations. Yugoslavia was a federation and it consisted of six republics, so it was Bosnia and Herzegovina.

10:26 Herzegovina yeah, herzegovina. How'd you know that? Because Bosnia and Herzegovina, aren't they like one single place now? Yes, it's one, yeah. Yeah, and then there's Croatia and Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia. I didn't realize those were all under Yugoslavia. I guess I never knew that Okay. Yes. Huh. In addition, there were two additional provinces under the Republic of Serbia, oh, so it's kind of like Wisconsin in the United States. There's Kosovo and Vovdina.

11:08 I haven't heard of that one. I've heard of Kosovo, though, uh-huh. Okay, but they were provinces in Serbia, okay. Gotcha so. I am going to talk a little bit about Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yeah, maybe I'm just going to look at you to see that. End point Herzegovina. Because Maybe I'm just going to look at you to say that, end point Herzegovina, because that's kind of where our story takes place. Okay, most of the story. So since the 15th century both regions were governed together under the Ottoman Empire and then later the Austro-Hungarian Empires. So they've been around for a long time. Yeah, oh, wow. And they shared borders and cultures and administration for a long time okay and then as part of the yugoslav republic.

11:50 In 1945, leader joseph bros tito lumped bosnia and herzegovina. I love it that that's awesome Into one of the six socialist republics. Okay, and it kind of cemented their political unity. So they basically have a government like the USSR in a way like socialists. All that stuff Is that kind of what their grouping was. Sure. Okay and continue.

12:30 Okay, herzegovina. Yeah, sorry if you didn't point my bad. So in the middle of this chaos, there's actually a young girl named zlata filipovic okay and she and her family live in sarajevo, bosnia sarajevo yeah, saraje, Do you want to do this? Because dang Mr Pronunciation over here. I'm not that good. Okay, sarajevo, sarajevo, sarajevo. Yes, I mean, that's what you're talking about, right? Yes, okay, so you know of it. I've heard of it. Yeah, about right, yes, okay, so you know of it. I've heard of it, yeah, because the um trans-siberian orchestra has a song called like oh, what the fuck's the title?

13:13 Something sarajevo or whatever, something like that. I'm trying to blank on the full title of this song. Fuck, now I feel stupid that I can't remember because I like trans Siberian, siberian orchestra. Well, there's a lot of um. Kept a diary during the Bosnian war, okay, um, and she was kind of called the Anne Frank of Sarah. Have have, oh. Sarajevo. Sarajevo. She was the Anne Frank of Sarajevo. Yeah so so she hid in a cat an attic a basement oh, I mean zlata wrote about siege life sniper fire, how she lost friends, all wolf still worrying about doing homework and isn't that wild trying to listen to pop music and oh yeah what was her favorite band?

14:05 Um. She enjoyed michael jackson and guns and roses oh, that's. That's quite a nice variety. I like it so a little bit of historical background on the breakup of yugoslavia kind of a crash course. If you will Probably crash into this, what Probably crash and burn? Idiom Jesus. Christ Idiom. Yugoslavia was once a united country, okay, and it fell apart in the early 90s, so in the 1980s.

14:52 T joseph bros, tito he um, ends ends up dying, and with him so does the glue that held everybody together so what was so important about him that he held everything together like was he the ruler of yeah? Yeah, he was the leader so what? did he have? A specific position like president? I mean what? What position did he hold that he was the leader? I don't think that I wrote down specifically what his title was, but he was like in charge of yugoslavia and all the republics for like quite a while yeah, yeah, gotcha um, and it's all multi-ethnic groups in Yugoslavia, sure. So as soon as he's gone, the kids aka the nationalist politicians and all that they kind of start acting out, okay.

15:36 So over the 1980s there's an economic crisis and the resurgent nationalism spread hey. I need to check something. Okay. Okay, there it is. It has surfaced. Unleash the Kraken. Wow that was. I would say that was epic and I would be right, holy shit. So sorry about that little break. I had to check something, check a setting, and then we got graced by a delicious burp from Kate over there.

16:19 Okay, anywho, sorry, yes. So leaders from Serbia. Yeah. Pushed their own agendas well, most do and tito just kind of suppressed all that okay, so he was kind of able to keep them all like tolerable of each other right. So it was kind of like a decades-long family feud. That just kind of started family feud kind of breaking up at the dinner table you know, during thanksgiving, when everybody kind of comes yeah do you think anyone flipped the plates off like, fuck this, anyways something. Okay, I'm gonna take the turkey with me yeah, I want a turkey leg in 1991, um yugoslavia's republics starting are starting to wander separation.

17:00 Okay, in june of 91 slovenia and croatia declare independence. Oh, slovenia's separation is is kind of a brief little battle okay it's. It was a 10-day little battle by the yugoslav people's army okay who had moved into secure border posts. Oh, and they mostly fought like light infantry type of encounters. So it wasn't like full-on blown battles. No, no, there was still conflict. Nonetheless, there was conflict. Yeah. But then there was a ceasefire and the Yugoslav People's Army, with Jew and Slovenia, maintained their declaration of independence.

17:45 Gotcha, okay. Croatia's declaration was a little bit more messy. War erupted with the Yugoslav Army, which was largely Serb-led, okay, and local Serb forces. Okay. Serbs against other, well, not even against Serbs, I think kind of all the Serbs like kind of banded together against the Croatians, oh gotcha, I think that's how it was Okay and I'll tell you a little bit more about that Gotcha. In 1992, Bosnia's excuse me by April of 92, Bosnia and Herzegovina were mostly ethnically mixed republic.

18:28 There were Muslim Bosniaks, there were Orthodox Serbs, there were Catholic Croats. Croats, so Croatians, yeah, okay. And so Bosnia and…. Herzegovina. They declared independence as well. Oh, wow. So Bosnia becomes the main battlefield of the Yugoslav wars. Really Mm-hmm Okay. Bosnian Serb forces, backed by Serbia's national leadership, oppose the independence and lay siege to Sarajevo, sarajevo, sarajevo. So the Bosniak Muslims and the Bosnian Croats.

19:12 The forces initially fight the Sarabs and at one point, tragic point, they were actually like fighting each other the, the muslims and the croats and and then they're like this is stupid. So then they started like stupid. Yes and they're like let's, let's band together again. It was all like games of game of thrones I never knew. I never knew croatians were called croats. I've never heard that before. Yeah, that's different. Yeah, okay so the siege of Sarajevo. You're getting there Sarajevo. Yeah, In April 1992, Bosnia's capital which is Sarajevo, and I believe, if I'm not mistaken, the Trans-Siberian Orchestra's song is Christmas Eve, sarajevo.

19:59 Oh, very nice yeah. Well, Sarajevo was home of the 1984,. Did I not pronounce it right? That was close. They had the 1984 Winter Olympics there. Oh, did they? Yes. I wasn't old enough to remember that today. So, yeah, okay. So Sarajevo. Close. You're getting there. What is? it Sarajevo? That's what? Yeah, okay, so sarajevo close, you're getting there. What is it sarajevo? That's what it says. Sarajevo, stop it stop it. That bird made me yawn. How is that possible? There it is jesus christ um. So sarajevo becomes under siege by the Bosnian Serbs.

20:40 Okay, bosnian Serbs are worried that they would be vulnerable as an ethnic minority Right In a Bosniak-dominated country. So many preferred staying in a Serb-led Yugoslavia oh, in a Serb-led Yugoslavia, oh. So if you start breaking apart Yugoslavia, there's less and less majority Serbs. Right, no, that makes sense. Okay, so that's why all the Serbs are trying to band together and they don't want this independence Gotcha. That makes sense. They don't want to be the minority. Okay, so this siege will last almost four years, and it's the longest siege of a capital city in modern history.

21:30 Four years, holy crap. That's a long fucking time to siege a city. So between 93 and 94, war rages on throughout Bosnia. Sarajevo's people endure daily shellings, fuck, and the notorious like sniper alley where we're stepping out for bread even could be lethal. Right um, international peacekeepers from the un showed up wearing like blue helmets and good intentions, but with orders not to shoot, okay. So didn't do anything. What was the point? Didn't do anything? No, they really didn't.

22:10 I mean what would have been the point for? them to do that. They're like here's some food rations. Namaste. Stop shooting. Yeah, don't be cruel to each other. We're not going to listen to you it's like no, we're gonna keep doing what we've been doing. I mean I just, I mean I get their intentions, they were peaceful, whatever but what were they really going to accomplish by? Just, yeah, they got him some. It's coming back. Here it go. Here it go 1995. Yes, the world's patience was finally televised. Atrocities Atrocities.

22:50 Atrocities what word is that? Atrocities? There it is. Atrocities in the cities there it is, I trust. Cities and the cities. In July of 1995,. Bosnian Serb forces overrun the UN. Okay. And there is a massacre of over 7,000 Bosniak men and boys, oh shit, yeah. And not long after Serb forces bomb Sarajevo, yep, yep. And finallyajevo, yep, yep, and finally NATO, yeah, decides to drop the paperwork and pick up the peace and it launches airstrikes against Bosnian Serb positions in August of 95.

23:35 Damn. Combined with Bosnian Crote ground offensives. Yeah, this pressure kind of weans the leaders into peace talks. Okay. Okay, in December of 95, the parties finally signed the Dayton Peace Accords. Dayton Peace Accords Okay. Bosnia is split into two semi-autonomous entities bosnia croat federation and a serb republic okay and the war in bosnia at this time is officially over. A hundred thousand people are killed, god damn 40 percent of them are civilians.

24:19 Wow, that's really sad. Two million plus people are displaced well, sure, that makes sense between six and eleven thousand people. Six thousand and eleven thousand people of the dead were children. Oh fuck yeah that's really always depressing to hear, because they obviously didn't have a choice or anything. So wow, no. So that kind of brings me to this young girl, yeah. What's her name again? Sorry, zalata, zalata, zalata. Okay, so, like I said, sarajevo was kind of a melting pot of all these ethnicities, so there's the Bosniaks and the Serbs and Croats, and they all lived together somewhat peacefully, right?

25:06 So Zlatova was born on December 3rd 1980. Okay, so she would have been 15 at this time. So it actually starts. Her diary starts when she's 11. Oh, so she'd been writing for four years already. Okay, yes, yes, yes. I wanted to give you a background on the war before introducing her. Yeah. But yeah, she's there at the start of it, Okay. Yeah, fair enough. So she was a happy girl middle-class childhood. Her father was a lawyer, her mother was a chemist. She loved Michael Jackson, guns N' Roses. Yep was a lawyer. Her mother was a chemist. She loved michael jackson, guns and roses. Um, their family took a ton of vacations up in the mountains and at this time, in september of 91, she was in fifth grade.

25:51 Okay, okay. And at that point she received this little blank diary. Oh, she was inspired by the diary of anne frank. She did read that and she decided to name her diary Mimi. Mimi Mimi, mimi, m-i-m-m-y, mimi. Oh, okay. And actually it was after her pet goldfish that had passed Mimi. Is it common to name your diary Because you're like writing to it. Basically, yeah, yeah, you're almost having a conversation exactly through words. And she would always say, dear mimi, and she would end with yours lotta oh, okay, I guess I never really knew that there is one yeah, nice, nice, nice so her first like entries were about piano lessons and birthday parties and friends at school.

26:40 I just closed down my how did that? Happen. I have no idea. She would say things like quote I'm watching the American Top 20 on MTV. I don't remember a thing. Who's in what place? I feel great because I've just eaten a Four Seasons pizza with ham, cheese, ketchup and mushrooms. It was yummy. Maybe that's why I didn't remember who took what place. I was too busy enjoying my pizza. End quote Wow Okay. In October. She said quote some reservists from Montenegro have entered Herzegovina.

27:21 Herzegovina yeah. Why? For what Politics, it seems, but I don't understand politics. Right After Slovenia and Croatia, are the winds of war now blowing toward Bosnia or Herzegovina. No, that's impossible. End quote. Or Herzegovina. That's the one. Is Herzegovina. Barricades start to form around the city. Oh boy, Bread is is becoming rare. People are getting scared right rightly so between april 5th and april 6th in 1992. Okay, violence erupted.

28:03 Oh boy, there was a peaceful anti-war protest in sarajevo, which was shattered by gunfire. And well done on saying it properly. Thank you, you're welcome. And shortly after, serb national forces began blockading the city, okay, and suddenly Sarajevo was encircled by artillery on the hills, so they're kind of in a valley Gotcha. So yeah, there's just just, they're just surrounding, they're surrounding them, that sucks the siege of sarajevo began and overnight the city's 380,000 residents that's a lot found themselves cut off from the world.

28:44 Okay, zolotic says, quote when the war started, I thought the fighting was gonna to last about a month, and this was after. The fact that she's quoting this Sure, makes sense. But one month turned into many, and they got hit really hard. Right as shells rained down on the daily, snipers were on every street. Could you imagine, jesus Christ? And daily life became an everyday battle. Well right, I mean just doing anything. And Zlata and other children her age. They grew up fast. Reading this book, reading her diary, you can't imagine she's only 11.

29:25 Ah, I bet Like just some of the things that she says, some of the words that she uses. It's like Wait a minute, what? Are you sure you're not 15? 16 even older, yeah jesus, you're 11 well, war makes you grow up fast yeah I mean, look at all the you like world war ii, as we've stated many times. Look at all the young men who went to war that weren't even technically old enough to go but they lied just to do it. You know they grew up real quick. Yeah, so they did, though while there's a line in that sullivan song too, it was like I'm gonna butcher it right now, but like overnight my buddies turned into men or whatever, something like that. I don't remember exact line off the top of my head right now, but war, war will make you grow up fast.

30:09 Yes, so schools would close and zalata recalls that she actually only attended school about once every three days due to the fighting wow, and the rest of the time she would try to read books, practice piano. Um, she would be huddled in her parents cellar for for days at a time because of the shelling. So did she go down there just for safety purposes? Yes, like her family and the neighbors. They would all like huddle together. Don't you dare? I'm sorry, don't you dare. I'm not trying Drink more, okay. Cheers. So, with schools closed, Lotta and other kids used the dim echoey cellar for lessons by candlelight.

30:55 That's wild. They tried to improvise games. They played cards as best they could and Zlata often wrote in Mimi down there Right, and the only time she felt calm enough to record her thoughts were between explosions. Well, I mean, can you blame her? No, I don't know how you'd feel comfortable, like you know, it's just that that's wild the cellar floor was concrete okay the air was stale, water seeped in, but they were draped. They draped blankets amongst themselves, they shared canned food and they huddled together for warmth.

31:35 Right, they went through several winters. Oh that's crazy. That could not have been comfortable several winters without electricity and heat and gas and wow, yeah, bread they nothing, yes, nothing of normal shit you should have. Basically. So to tame her fear a little bit, zlata nicknamed the booming shells Chico and Cece Okay, and she sometimes joked about them in her diary, but it was just kind of a way to remove the fear lighten the mood. Lighten the mood, chico and cc were actually animals of hers.

32:16 Oh okay, chico, I think, was her bird and cc was her cat, both which passed away during the war so she had a bird, a cat and a goldfish yes, the goldfish died before I get that the war, but yes, right um the cellar became wonderful applaud thank you the cellar became both a prison and their refuge. It was their home for a while well, yeah, you said there were what? three winters, several winters. Did you have a specific number? so it started um. So she started writing in like september of 91 yeah, that's when she was 11 and the siege in her birthday's december.

33:04 So she was 12 then when the siege started in April of 92. Gotcha yes. Delicious. So, early on, zlata gushed about slumber parties and favorite songs Right. And then, just like a few months later, the start of her journals were slaughter, massacre oh boy horrors that's terrible because of the violence around her oh right at one point she writes I just walked through my beautiful sarajevo sarajevo sarajevo. It makes me so sad, right, and it felt like her childhood was just put on hold during all of this.

33:51 Oh, 100%, and rightly so, because you're trapped in a basement. All right, you can't do your normal stuff, can't even go to school properly, or every third day, or whatever it was. But yeah, no kidding. So Zlata says, quote, quote a school, a school girl. Without a school, without the fun and excitement of school, a child without games, without friends, without the sun, without birds, without nature, without fruit, without chocolate or sweets, with just a little powdered milk.

34:32 Oh boy. In short, a child without a childhood, a wartime child. Yep End quote 100% correct there, damn, that is terrible. Zlata describes living on humanitarian aid rations like canned food. Okay. And occasionally they'd put a little bit of chocolate in there, but it was a little while before they were able to get some of these rations it reminds me of that book. We both listened to tailspin, where they, like everyone, always took his, their chocolate out of the soldiers and stuff. Yeah, it's apparently a common practice yes, um, they did have a little wooden stove okay and they would like get to the point of having to, like, chop up all their furniture in order to produce heat keep it going, yeah, yeah gotcha.

35:24 So, um, the basements and the shelters were their homes, their playgrounds or classrooms. During all these years Zlata's family did their best to kind of keep her in some type of routine. Okay, her father would risk sniper fire to fetch water from the public pump. They would do that at least once a day, and then there was a point where I think he got a hernia. He was able to see a doctor somehow and the doctor was like you can't be lifting anything. So then it was on his wife to go and pick up all this water. But they would still have little birthday parties here and there. Isn't that wild to think that people who are in that situation would still have birthday parties?

36:10 I moved it. I gotta stretch out my legs. I feel like we should name him. What should we name him I? don't know. We'll ask the public for some help. Okay. Name him. Public help. Okay, so A birthday party. There was a chocolate cake made from powdered eggs and powdered milk from the aid packages. Okay, they actually loved it because they weren't used to it at this point. Well, at that point it was something special, yeah, so? Yeah. One entry in the diary describes the death of Zlata's friend Nina. Sorry, I was.

36:57 He's not laughing at that, he's for those of you who are just listening and not watching. Um, oh, good point. I thought my canvas was falling over. She had to give the quick uh quick side. Look to uh the the buffoon's picture painting. All right, so I'm sorry that's so sad, Nina. Nina was a classmate who used to play in the park with her, and one day she was just killed by shrapnel from a shell. Oh fuck. I'm assuming she was similar age. Yes, okay. Zlata pours her grief out onto her pages. She writes that the war is disgusting. And laments that her own childhood is being stolen. Okay, but she also does express some hope that maybe tomorrow the war will end.

37:41 Wouldn't that be lovely. In one interview. After the fact she said, quote the most important thing I learned is just to stay alive. You keep living day to day, looking for food and water, never knowing when you might have to run for your life. Right Quote, wow. I couldn't imagine having to like think that way, as at that age, you know, it's just, I mean, she's only a year older than me, younger than me, excuse me, um. So it's like, excuse me, um, so it's like I was right there with her, but in a completely different fucking situation. Obviously, growing up in the states, I know so I couldn't imagine being that age and having to think that that way. That's just wild and it's sad that a kid who can't even grow up wow so the the slow yugoslav wars was a conflict where yesterday's next door neighbor could be today's mortal enemy.

38:40 Right, it was just. It's purely ethnic identity and it just a flip of a switch which is too bad. All of a sudden, we're against each other. Yeah, former friends found themselves divided by these stupid invisible lines that no one said. Hey, you have to fight so and so? No, you don't. You don't have to, you're choosing to. They were just basically told to, so one observer noted, poisonous politics ended up quoting, dividing friends, neighbors and even families by their ethnic or religious affiliation, and quote in multi ethnic Bosnia, countless mixed families were left torn, one cousin in a Bosnian army, another cousin in the Serb army, literally shooting at each other.

39:32 Isn't that wild? It's crazy. Because you basically thought you had to, but you really didn't Not even so much told you you had to. It's just like well, I'm on this side, so I got to do this. You don't, but okay. Bosnia had three factions Serb nationals wanted to carve out a greater Serbia Okay Okay. And they were willing to besiege all these cities and villages to do it Right. Then there were Croat nationalists that wanted a greater Croatia Croat just In parts of Bosnia Well sure.

40:12 And there's Bosniak Muslims who were basically caught in the middle, fighting for multi-ethnic Bosnia Right Okay. These alliances shifted like some weird soap opera. Plot Soap opera, but the Bosniaks and the Crotes, initially allies against the Serbs, ended up fighting each other for about a year and then they're like let's not do that. Let's not do that. Let's not do that yeah. So it was like they couldn't even make up like who the enemy was. Right yeah, no kidding. So the Sarahavians, saravios, saravians, sarahavos, sarahavos.

41:11 It sounds like Navajos. Sarahavos. It sounds like navajos sarahavos. They actually developed some kind of weird dark humor during all of this as like a coping mechanism. Well, I mean, you've known me for a while. I typically use dark humor all the time, especially in this. I've never been in this setting, but you know what I mean like something you wouldn't, you shouldn't do it in, but you do, yeah, because it just it's a coping thing. So, yeah, I get that so they, they kind of thought it in the way of if we don't laugh, we're going to cry. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so there was one example of the Miss Besieged Sarah Hayvo Beauty Pageant held in a basement in May of 1993.

41:58 Okay. While shells fell outside, a group of Sarah Hayvian women organized a full-on beauty contest underground, complete with an audience of locals, of un peacekeepers, of journalists packed into like a makeshift bunker turned ballroom that's fucked up, wow the contestants dolled up as best they could with a little mascara and maybe a little rouge and paraded to cheers and flashlight spotlights okay and, at the end, the winner, who was a 17 year old. They had a handwritten banner for the cameras because there were journalists there, yeah, and it read don't let them kill us, oh shit I mean, I bet they really didn't want to die.

42:46 No, but isn't it sad you had to write that on a fucking sign? good lord, that's wild so there is a u2 song, the band u2 I'm very familiar some people might not be do you know where they're from? Milwaukee what the fuck I don't know you when you ask me. Do you know where they're from? It's probably somewhere close to us ireland okay. Well, they have a song called miss sarajevo, sarajevo miss sarajevo. Who's the singer? Dave matthews bono, dave matthews. He has his own band. Yeah, it's the dave matthews band uh.

43:28 Sarajevians often joked about the Unporfor, the, what, the Unprofor, unprofor. They were the United Nations Protection Force. Oh Okay. The Peacekeepers who had the bright blue helmets. They actually nicknamed the Smurfs. Did they have a pop of Smurf and a Smurfette? They nicknamed the Smurfs, yes, because of their blue helmets, but also because they were small in number and they were kind of useless. Smurfs are not useless. Brainy Smurf knew a lot of shit. One joke went around that a un soldier's to-do list and sarajevo said number one duck incoming fire yep number two hand out food okay number three take a coffee break.

44:23 Coffee break. Number four get yelled at by locals for not stopping the war. I mean okay. I mean you can't blame them for wanting the war to stop. So all right, wow, okay. So it wasn't until late 1995 that decisive action was starting to take place. It's kind of crazy how long it's lasted, but yeah, no kidding um, it's kind of crazy how long it's lasted, but yeah, no kidding, um zlata does kind of note deliveries of the humanitarian aid and gratitude. Um, she knew enough to write about politics in the situation, but she didn't quite understand politics right well, no, I mean, I shit, I don't yeah a lot of people don't understand politics.

45:12 It's just how the, with all the fucking nuance and everything that goes on with it and all the tomfoolery that also all those fucking people do, it's like, how can you understand it? Yeah, unless you're in it. Yeah, and I'm. I know I'm speaking very generally and I'm talking about myself, not other people. Some people might have a handle on it. I fucking don't so zlata said later after this whole thing she says, quote there is no hope for anyone, because the politicians ruined what had been a model place for all different people to live together there you go but sarajevo's spirit wasn't broken Fuck no.

45:53 Under siege the city had this booming underground culture. They had secret schools, concerts by candlelight and even like these little satirical theaters which would kind of make fun at the wartime absurdities. Parents tried to shield their kids from the hate. In the multi-ethnic families they taught children to be very proud of who they are, what their heritage is, even as extremists outside could literally kill them for it. It's just so sad they had to go through this. Yes. So of course, it's impossible to talk about Zlata's diary and not mention Anne Frank in her diary.

46:36 Well, I mean she was inspired by it. There have been comparisons made between the two. Okay, Like they're both writers in their diary. They're both young, they're both hiding. They both named their diary. They're both young, they're both hiding um. They both named their diary. Do you, do you remember or did you come across what anne frank named her diary? I guess kitty, kitty, I don't. I'm sorry if you said that earlier no, I didn't okay, I read she did not have kitty. Oh, as part of the diary. I don't know why they would remove that out of the publication.

47:20 Yeah, that's weird, but her actual diary had dear kitty oh, that's odd, though, yeah I don't know why, my version Anyway. I was just curious and I'm glad that was part of your research, or at least memory. Yeah, but both diaries kind of chronicled this loss of childhood in a sense right. Yeah, Sorry. I had to stretch my back is killing me. But at one point Zlata does say, quote Some people compare me with Anne Frank. That frightens me, mimi, I don't want to suffer her fate. End quote. So why did people compare her?

48:01 Just because she wrote in a diary? That's literally it. She wrote in a diary during wartime as a child and so people like, hey, anne Frank did that. Yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha. So Zlata's personal war kind of ended around 1993, so the war went on to 95 okay but zlata's kind of ended around 93 is that when she expanded, not just she was um evacuated oh from sarajevo with the help of the united nations, gotcha um. By then she was about 13 years old and she had filled her diary with two years worth of these wartime memories well, yeah, fuck that's. That's a long fucking time the fighting was still raging, but foreign journalists and humanitarian groups had found out about zlata's writings.

48:46 Okay. And so parts of her diary were published. Without her knowledge. No, okay, they got her permission. I'm just making sure, because that would be a real dick move. They printed about 45 pages to raise awareness for UNICEF. Okay. And reporters would visit Zlata's family. That's wild Dodging snipers to get there, essentially to interview her. That is fucking dedication. There was a French humanitarian group that arranged for Zlata and her family to get out. Okay, so they got them out onto a UN plane bound straight for Paris just before Christmas in 93.

49:30 Okay, a un plane bound straight for paris just before christmas in 93. Okay, um, she did have to leave behind her grandparents, which she would try to visit when she was able to. Right, they didn't live too far away, but far enough that it's. It was unsafe to go often, gotcha, she managed to grab her teddy bears in her diary oh, in her flea vesper would definitely grab her stuffies. Yeah, yeah, she calls them so so in paris um her diary was published in france, it became an instant bestseller. Stop it, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I just need more oxygen to the brain she became an instant bestseller. It topped france's non-fiction charts and publishing rights um were snapped, snatched up by other publishers in a dozen countries okay so when zlata's diary came out, in what I thought, you were yawning again no, I'm just sorry, we're almost done I get that and I'm not.

50:30 I'm not complaining, I'm not saying anything, I just I need to stand up we're almost at I know, okay, so we got this zlata's diary came out in english in 94 okay um zlata did a press tour, media interviews and she she basically wanted to publish this. Right. So she could help the children of Sarajevo. Sarajevo, yes, sorry. After a year in Paris, zlata's family moved to Dublin, ireland. Hey, where are you two from? Zlata grew up to become a human rights activist and author okay she eventually graduated from university.

51:16 She studied at oxford and the dublin's trinity college. Look at her go. Zlata's diary itself remains um a widely read memoir. Okay that is assigned in schools. What's the? name of it. Zlata's Diary. That's literally all it's called. I've never heard of this, but I also. Again, I was, like I said, I'm a year older than her, so I suppose by the time it would have gotten to schools or stuff, I was out of that shit, or past whatever age I guess, but okay. So the Sarajevo that was left behind was slowly rebuilt. Okay, the siege was lifted in February of 96.

51:59 Wow. Jesus Christ. Over 10,000 people died in Sarajevo alone. Right 1,600 of them were children. Fuck that's a lot. Right, 1,600 of them were children Fuck that's a lot. They reopened schools, theaters, cafes and tried to knit all these multicultural families back together. Sure, bosnia and Herzegovina is at peace, thank God. What's that? The war's aftermath is still a little bit complicated. Um, there were war crime trials oh boy um. But there is organizations like the war childhood museum in sarajevo, sarajevo, which now preserve the memories of the children who endured the conflict and who, yeah, made it through that shit so war in this case was not just about the generals and the battles.

52:56 It was about families cowering in basements, right kids riding by candlelight, friends saying goodbye at funerals. Ethnic hatred turned neighbors into targets and international politics turned a local crisis into years of suffering Wild. Okay. One of Zlata's own diary entries near the end of her book captures kind of a bittersweet note as she prepares to leave her town. Okay, she addresses her diary one last time and she wills for hope and for peace and to protect her friends that she had to leave behind that's just so sad because, like, having to leave your friends behind like they did is just like I don't know.

53:43 It's hard for me to grasp it because I've never had to go through anything anywhere remotely similar. Yeah, but leaving friends behind like that and shit is just fucking wild. Yeah, because of the war-torn people yeah I don't know so yugoslavia officially dissolved, yeah, on june 5th 2006. Wow, not until then. Like I knew of yugoslavia, so do I I. And now it's not even a thing anymore no, and it's funny because I don't. I guess I don't know the time frame in my in my life, but yeah, I always knew about yugoslavia, yugoslavia, and then now there's no. I remember that vaguely, not well, but you know, and that's why I knew, like bosnia-herzegovina and sarajevo and all that.

54:31 But yeah, I think I mean it was years after that fact, but this is also many years ago. Now I'm like yugoslavia is not a thing anymore. Yeah, it's like holy fuck so when montenegro, which is another little republic, declared its independence, that was around 2006, okay, and it effectively ended the state union of serbia and montenegro, which was part of the federal republic of yugoslavia, right yeah so they were the last ones to be like okay, we want to be independent too. So now there is no yugoslavia so that was like the last thread holding on to Yugoslavia. Yes, exactly yes, wow.

55:12 So that is the story of Zlata and the Yugoslav war in the early 90s. You made it through. I'm sorry, I'm really warm it's really warm up here. I don't know why it's so warm up here. Right now it's very warm and that does not bode well for Bradley. When I get warm, I get tired and I fucking shut down and I hate that. So I'm sorry. It's okay it wasn't because I wasn't interested. I'm sorry about the occasional yawn. It's okay, it is really. Why is it so warm up here? I don't know. It's okay, it is really. Why is it so warm up here?

55:52 Seriously, but anyways, okay, no, that is. It's a sad story. It is a sad story and that's really on track for our brand. So I mean I was looking up happy stories earlier I was like no, that one sucks. No, that one sucks. Happy story Yugoslavia breaking up. Okay, okay, last thoughts on Pig Farmer. I liked it I do too. I like it. It's a pale ale, it's not like a. It's a pale ale that you actually can get behind, because, again, it's not super pale ale-y. Yeah, not super pale aly yeah it's maybe a bit more than like the founders of what you like the session, but it's not a ton yeah, no.

56:37 I really enjoyed it, though I can't recall when I used to sell this, if I've ever had this one, but whether I did. I forgot and I apologize, but I really like it it's really good. I would definitely have some deusterbacks. Pig's Pig Farmer again, mm-hmm. So maybe we should go there one of these days again when you come to visit. Sure, it's not that far from where I live and they got yeah, it's cool with the barn and stuff and so on, whatever. But yeah, I really like it. It's not bad at all. Awesome. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes. Well. I suppose, All right, buffoons. That's it for today's episode. Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you.

57:18 Next time Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore. Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube X, instagram and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmailcom. We are Bradley and Kate. Music by Corey Akers. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us. Remember, the buffoonery never stops.