The Origin of Weird: Will West and William West

0:16 Oh, hey there. Oh, hey there. Welcome to the history of Bufoons, the origin of weird. I'm Bradley. Who is weird? Yeah, I'm awfully considered weird. Yeah, I'm Kate. Lots of very not weird. She's the normal one of the group. Now we're spitting knots. How are you today? I'm doing pretty darn well. How are you? That was funny. That was. Okay. I am doing pretty darn well too. It's a nice day out. Oh, it's beautiful out there. Stuck inside. I know.

0:56 Which is okay because obviously I don't want to edit out wind noise. But it is it is beautiful out. The temperature is for certainly fallish right now, so it's been fucking great. So yeah. Anyways, what do you got for me on the origin of weird? So we are going to talk about um a couple of people who are um they are located in Leavenworth, Texas. Leavenworth? They're about 25 miles northwest of Kansas City. Isn't that where a prison is? Yes, the first ever federal penitentiary in the United States. Good job. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Um, construction for the penitentiary began in 1895. Are we actually talking about? Oh my god, are we really?

1:36 Holy shit. All right, cool. It's about two people in the penitentiary, but it did officially open in 1903. The prisoners were incarcerated here for a couple of years before it like officially opened. Gotcha. Like businesses tend to do that. Have you noticed? It was like a soft opening before they before the grand opening. So I used to work for Audible, Audubel, really, Audible in Illinois, and they had an office that they started, and it was like months into this new office, and then they had an opening. Sure. With like Chamber of Commerce. It's like we have been here for what? Did you cut a ribbon and everything? Somebody else did, yes. Well, I didn't mean you specifically, but yes. Yes, I was there.

2:17 I witnessed it. I'm sorry. Okay, so it officially opened in 1903, but there had been, you know, it had been kind of open. Right. Um, so it was operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers at first. So lots of brick, lots of symmetry, zero whimseats, very, very zero what? Whimsy. Oh. At first I thought you said whimsyets. I'm like, what? Whimsy. Whimsy, okay. Yes. It was pretty just blah. Stone walls, iron cells, rows of cells, bars, iron doors is what I meant to say. That's the thing. So this place was meant for long-term federal inmates. Yes.

2:57 Murderers, counterfeiters, anyone who made the post office mad. It pretty much housed about 1,200 um inmates by 1903. Oh, wow. So quite a few. By the time it opened. Yeah. By the time it opened, we already had a full house. Holy fuck. Uh prisoners did hard labor here, brickmaking, um, quarrying, farming, carpentry, that kind of thing. Did they have a license plate factory that they had to tar the roof? Um, probably not then, no. You have pictures of that. Troshank redemption. It's such a great movie. So around 1900, uh, the US was obsessed with scientific policing. Mug shots, Bertollianage, Bertollion, yeah, but Bertollianage, which I will explain.

3:44 I hope so. Blood types, skull measurements, like they collected all of this data. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So Leavenworth was supposed to be like a showcase of criminology and order. Okay. So the warden at the time was Major R.W. McLarry. He was a Civil War veteran and big believer in science-based like crime fighting. He was very scientifically backed. And he previously ran the Joliet Prison in Illinois and helped import the Bertilian method. The Bertilian method. What is that? I will get into that. Oh, so not yet. I'm sorry. That's okay. I want to give you one little tidbit.

4:25 That's okay. It did hold the penitentiary held figures like George Machine Gun Kelly. Ah, nice. Robert Stoud, which was the bird man of Alcatraz before he went to Alcatraz. Yeah, that's that's the he went there after that, and that's when he became known as that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And most recently, Michael Vick, the NFL dogfighting person. Oh, I know who he is. He helped me win uh fantasy league one year. Way to go, Michael Vick. Well, hey man, I want money. So on May 1st, 1903, an African American man named Will West. Will West arrived at the United States Penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kansas. Okay. Like every new inmate, he went through the standard intake routine.

5:09 Prison clerks recorded his photograph, physical description, and 11 measurements called the Bertillion system. Okay. I think I'm I don't know what it is, but I'm starting to remember this is a thing. Okay, gotcha. So it measures standing height, sitting height from like trunk to head. Trunk? The length of the trunk? Uh torso? Oh, okay. They call it trunk. Yeah. I didn't know that was uh a pseudo nap for it. Is that right? Is that the right wording? I didn't know that they called it a trunk. I just always call it, I don't know, a torso. Yeah. But anyway. Um outer arm span, so like um wing span?

5:49 Wing, yeah. Tip to finger tip to fingertip. Head length. Is it true that like that's like your height too? Is that I've heard that. I've always heard that like when I was little. I don't I never measured myself. Yeah. Anyways. Um head length and head width. Okay. Left foot length. Not right. Right ear length. Interesting. So are you gonna get into why that's a thing? So that's a no. Yeah. Oh, you are? Right ear length. Okay. Left cubit, which is length from elbow to fingertip. Okay. Left middle finger length.

6:33 Okay. Left little finger length. Okay. And I'm not sure how they do this, but right cheek width. Okay. Maybe ear to nose? I don't know. I'm not sure. I would like you to get your paper out. Okay. So they compared this Bertillion system measurements of Will West to existing records. And the clerks were startled. Okay. Bradley is gonna help me. We're gonna do a uh little uh interaction here. I am a guard, and Bradley is going to be Will West. Hello, I'm Will West. Alright. So, all right, fish.

7:13 Name Will West. Is he southern? Apparently, I don't know. Okay, height 67 inches, arm span 72 inches, torso 36 inches, left foot length 27.9 centimeters, left middle finger length 11.4 centimeters, eye color brown, complexion dark. Wait, what did you say your name was? Will West As in William West the convicted murderer? No, Will West convicted of manslaughter.

7:54 After crunching the Bertillion numbers, the record keeper dug through the cabinet and came back holding a card that matched perfectly every line, every stat, and the name William West printed at the top. When the clerks pulled the record card for William West, they discovered to their utter disbelief that this same man was already spending time at Leavenworth. This card was shown to the new prisoner, who in amazement said, That's my picture, but I don't know where you got it, for I know I have never been here before. Flipping the card over, the clerk read aloud the shocking details. This very man was supposedly already imprisoned in the same facility, serving a life sentence since September 9th, 1901 for murder.

8:44 I've heard of this. Have you? They look literally identical. Fucking denical. I don't remember where I saw this. I didn't know any specifics of this, but I have seen a snippet of this. So that's fucking hilarious. I will show you a picture. Oh, that is wild. So when the second William West was brought in, the room literally fell silent. He looked identical to the first man. Same build, same features, same everything. And to settle the matter, officials took both men's fingerprints and compared them side by side. Completely different. That is so wild. Their fingerprints were completely different. How the fuck are their measurements all the fucking same?

9:28 That is just impressive. And he's only 5'7. Damn, a short man. So there were three trusted systems at this time photographs, the Bertillion measurements, and names, and they all failed. Sure. But the fingerprints that held the truth. So according to the warden, R.W. McClary, he surveyed the chaos. He topped his tossed his little taint measure and was like the death to Bertolian edge. So because of this, that brought down that system? The very next day. Wow. The very next day they stopped. So they at this time, obviously they took the fingerprints, but they didn't use that as a measure.

10:13 Correct. Is this where that kind of started? Correct. Gotcha. Okay. So in the aftermath of the Will West, William West mix-up, police departments across the country got the memo. Said, hey, mugshot files began including not just the mugshots and the Bertillion measurements, but now fingerprints as well. Sure. So eventually the Bertolian system did fade into history, but Leavenworth was pretty much the first one to be like, we're not using that again. Yeah, we're good. Yeah. So over time, the West story took a little bit of a life of its own. Sure. Um, researchers dug into Leavenworth's prison records and discovered that both men wrote letters to the same family members suggesting they were actually related.

10:59 But we don't know for sure. So are they thinking they could have been twins? Yes. There was an inmate, George Bean, who claimed that he had known them back home and said that they were actually twins. But why would you name your kids Will and William? Because you're an idiot? Yeah. So their exact relationship is still unknown. Sure. But even even identical twins with matching builds could be instantly distinguished by their fingerprints. So obviously this is well before DNA and all that. Did they ever take any samples of saliva or anything?

11:40 That could have been maybe later. I mean, this is what? I don't need to. It was 1903 when this happened. So like I don't know how A, they probably didn't have the means to preserve such DNA or whatever, or not. But um sorry, I gotta break. Um but okay. I figured not, but I just wanted to ask that question. So anyways. Okay. So uh so whatever is true in the Rise of the Finger printing, the Will West, William West case remain remains one of the striking like coincidences in criminal history. Okay, their records still exist today, near identical mugshots, matching brutillion measurements.

12:24 I mean down to centimeters. That's crazy. They had to be twins. They would have to be twins. So William West, the the one who was incarcerated first. First, yeah. He was convicted of murder. He had a life imprisonment sentence. Okay. He was received um September 9th, 1901. Early on, he she he did stints in solitary confinement for fighting and causing trouble. Sure. By 1916, he had turned some things around and he became began like kind of a trustworthy type of status. He he was a better prisoner. Yes. And he was an inmate who was allowed to guard and supervise other prisoners on work details.

13:08 Oh wow. But he succumbed to temptation. Oh dear. And one afternoon he just walked away. Oh. He hopped a freight train, made it to Topeka, Kansas, and was caught the very next day and shipped back to Leavenworth. But it wasn't just three years later that William West was paroled. Really? Yeah, I don't know how that would happen if you just ran off, but whatever. That seems weird. Will West, the one, the character you played, he was convicted of manslaughter. He did a good job. He was a So I'm sorry to interrupt. I just watched a movie and I love Liam Neeson. Yeah. He was in the new naked gun movie. And he's interrogating a guy. He's like, says here, I'm not going to get the lines right, but it says here you're convicted of uh man's laughter.

13:53 That must have been one hell of one hell of a joke. Man's laughter. Pretty much. I love Liam Neeson. He's so great. Okay, so manslaughter sentence was a shorter term. The exact length is not listed in his surviving files. Okay. But he did not receive life imprisonment. Sure. Um, he was received on May 1st, 1903. Right. He served his manslaughter sentence and then vanished from the record. He pretty much disappeared from history. There's no follow-up, no nothing. So basically he did his time and said adios, muchacho, and that was it. And he was just pretty much a good person after that. And who knows if they overlapped again?

14:34 No idea. No idea. Yeah. But today fingerprinting obviously remains the cornerstone of criminal identification, used to verify identities, link records, and maintain accurate criminal histories. Right. The two Wests still remind us that sometimes it takes a spectacular mix-up for science to get their act together. Now, true. What I have done, because I'm curious. Okay. I searched for celebrity look-alikes for you and me. Oh my word. Let me first show you the Will West, William West um photo. Yeah. I think this is a very good idea. Their profile is different, but I've seen.

15:15 But their head on is so strikingly similar. So crazy. Yeah. I mean, today, like to me, his the the bottom one, so I don't know which one is I don't know which is which, but you can see like his jaw is just a little bit different, but overall, it like they are like the same person, basically. Yeah. That is so wild. I that this is the one I I did see. Yes. Yeah. That's crazy. So this picture will be on our social media, but I went to Oh dear celebrity. Nope, sorry. It's called starbyface.com. Okay. And it is a free site where you can upload your picture. Oh dear. And it'll come back with several celebrities that you look like.

15:58 Okay. Now, depending on the picture. Obviously, that's gonna that's gonna alter things. I have done an older picture of myself, like a couple years old, and then I've done a recent picture. Apparently, my recent picture looks like I'm Hispanic because it came back with a bunch of Hispanic women. I thought you looked like J Lo. Okay, so one of my older pictures. I don't know. Okay. One of my older pictures says that I look like Emily Kinney. Emily Kinney. I don't know if I know that one. She played Beth Green on The Walking Dead. She is actually one only one month older than I am. She has she had blonde hair.

16:39 She has blonde hair. Yes, I I do know exactly who you're talking about. Yes, Emily Kinley. Yes. I was actually sad when she died on that. She was a great, great uh character. Yes, I liked her. She was great. Yeah, so apparently in this photo I look like her. Okay. Um, for you, Bradley. Oh dear. You look like an old American idol singer. Oh, come on. Named Ace Ace Young. Ace Young? At 36% and 35%, you have Dave Batista. I do not look like Dave Butt. I think it's the bald head. I mean, I guess. So should we put why is Paul Giamatti on there?

17:20 Because Paul Giamatti is also listed as a look-alike at 33%. I think I look more like Paul Giamatti than Dave Battista. Dude, I am not ripped at all. I got Dad Bod going up. You got Shane West on this list. You got Shamar Moore on this list. David Cross? What the last makes some sense, but because of the bald head and the glasses. So if you put me and David Cross together, we'd have a full beard because he's got a mustache in that picture, and I just got the beard. Oh my god, that is so wrong. Yeah, mine is like people I don't Lena Dunham is the only other one that I recognize. I fucking hate her. She annoys me.

18:01 I um Sersha Ronin. She was on that my list, apparently. I I apparently I'm blonde now. No, you do not look like Sersha Ronan. I don't think I look like any of them. No, you really don't. What are they like? Do just like random like features and stuff. Emily Kinney has come up a couple times for me. That's funny. But also other Hispanic women. That's so weird. It's very weird. That's so weird. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. So yeah, that is the story of Will West and William West, and they're like, uh I think we need some fingerprints to set these men a pot. I do declare. I do declare. We need better forensics.

18:44 Thank you for that word. I'm not a smart man. Oh, thank you so much. You did you did read fairly properly. Okay, let's get the recoil. I suppose Jesus Christ. All right, buffoons. That's it for today's episode. Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore? Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at History Buffoons Podcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

19:25 Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us. Remember, the buffoonery never stops.