The Status Quo Remains the Same

0:09 oh hey there, oh hey there, jesus. Maniacal laughter so I just came from not, but I just watched the Wolverine movie. Deadpool. Deadpool. Deadpool versus. And. Yep, deadpool and Wolverine. Yep, that's the title of it. It's kind of boring. What? Why is it boring? Just the title. I don't know. It could be like something much cooler. Could be Deadpool slash Wolverine because he's got claws. Let's see what you did. Anyway, I just came from it and one of my favorite parts of the Deadpool movies is the soundtrack yeah, he, he does pretty well with the, with the soundtracks, and they just see what works right for that character.

1:03 I know, and it's just so good. Like. Was it him sitting on the? Was it the first one where he's sitting on the bridge, in the very beginning, where he's listening to Shoop? by Salt-N-Pepa. Okay, we didn't ask for that. That is unnecessary. Yeah, no, I think. Yeah, all of the soundtracks are pretty awesome. I like how you said yeah, no because, yeah, all of the soundtracks are pretty awesome. I like how you said yeah, no, because that is such a Midwest thing to do. No, yeah, yeah. There's literally two ways to say it yeah, no and no yeah. And they both mean something individual, so that's pretty funny how that works. But anyways, we're from the Midwest. Do you have a favorite soundtrack? Do I have a favorite soundtrack? Oh boy, I haven't really thought of soundtracks in a while.

1:48 I mean, the soundtrack for the movie Dazed and Confused is fan-fucking-tastic. Well, I've never seen that movie. Oh, it's such a great movie. It's directed by Richard Linklater. That was Matthew McConaughey's first role. Oh, and that's why, if you ever see him or a lot of people do and he's like, all right, all right, all right, because that's where he did that in the movie. But yeah, ben Affleck was in it. Are we still talking about a movie? Yes, we're still talking about the movie that has one of the best soundtracks, because it was set in 76. Yeah, and so obviously a lot of 60s and 70s songs and stuff, aerosmith and all that whatever, yeah, so it's not just instrumental oh god, no, it's all just rock music really.

2:33 Yeah, um, but yeah, they had some pretty, pretty big names in there that were relatively unknown at the time and I think it came out in like was it 94-ish? Give or take if I had to guess somewhere around there. But uh, yeah, that soundtrack is fantastic, yeah, so if I had to pick one off the top of my head, I would. I would probably pick that okay, so I've got this beer sitting next to me and I keep like reaching for it and you're like, and I'm like, oh crap, it's not open yet. And I've reached for it like four times already. So we both got a beer. Hold on, hold on, ready, ready. Yeah, mine just squirted all over, oh gosh, okay. At least it's not on my computer.

3:14 No, that's a good thing. Okay, what you got. I have a Sierra Nevada cool little thing, ipa, which is a Cryo Fresh. Az IPA Cryo fresh. Yeah, so it's like I'm not extremely familiar with the cryo part because I've only had a few. It's funny to actually I've had one before. It was from Hop Valley. Is it nice and crisp. Yeah, it's a little more on the crisp side instead of the more juicy side for a hazy. Oh, okay, I think because of that. Maybe I'm not sure, but I do love me some Sierra Nevada. Yeah, you do, that's your favorite. Well, one of your favorites. It's my favorite brewery, is it yeah?

3:56 Oh, so close yeah. And I've been to both of their breweries, so they have the original one in Chico, california, where Aaron Rogers is from, and they also have one now because aaron rogers are you kidding me? no, yes, I am kidding you no. The funny thing is, I believed you when you said no he was a packer, that's all I know now he plays on the jets anywho, um, and then I've also been to the Anywho, and then I've also been to the one they built a few years back in North Carolina, in Asheville, which was pretty cool. So that was a pretty neat trip though, but they had some good beers. In my opinion, celebration my favorite beer of the year.

4:38 Well, I've got the Gumskull. Numbskull. It's G-U-M-B. Wouldn't numbskull be like K-N-U-B? Yeah, can I see the label? Cool, I see the G-U, g-u-m-b. Keep turning it, so wouldn't it be gumskull. That's what I said gumskull, gumskull, but it's gumskull, sea salt and lime lager and I like Modelo, so I kind of chose this one. Um, and it's, it is really good. I really like it. It's by um Pet Skull Brewing Company there you go but I don't know, like, where it's from. I guess I could have looked that up beforehand. That would have been probably ideal. Yeah well, I don't think about such things.

5:19 I know and, but it's delicious, um, and I would recommend it if you like, modelo. Is it really limey? No, it's not Good. Yeah, it's nice and subtle. Good, because I think that would be overpowering as is the sea salt. I just put a dent in my can and now I can't get it out. Jesus, no, it's subtle, okay. Yeah, very delicious. Good Okay, very delicious, good Okay. So I've got a story for you. You do. Yeah, and I don't remember if I've talked to you about it yet or not. You haven't. Oh goody, oh goody. So I read this book over quarantine, actually, so 2020, if you recall.

6:02 Who doesn't? Probably my daughter, because she's only two but, um, and I really enjoyed the story and it's always stuck with me so I decided to do an episode on it. All right, so this is about the radium girls oh, I've heard of that yes, yes, so most of my information I received from the book the Radium Girls the Dark Story of America's Shining Women by Kate Moore. Okay, and I already had it in my Kindle library and everything. Well fantastic, I know Are you going to reference that in the show notes so people can read it?

6:45 Yes, find it if they want to read it. Yes, all right, good, okay. So do you know anything about radium? Isn't it like toxic A little bit? I mean you don't want to have it for breakfast Dinner's. Okay, maybe put some on your Wheaties. Wheaties are underrated. Actually I like raisin bran. Okay, redirect. So radium was first discovered by 1898 by pierre and marie curie. Yep, yes, so do you know how many numbers are on the periodic table, or how many elements are on the periodic table?

7:30 Isn't there like 52 or no, that's not right. No, there's quite a few. Yeah, there's way more than that, but I don't know either. But this was fantastic. But radium is number 88. Well, fucking A-rated is. So there's at least 88 on the periodic table oh, my word okay. Do you know what the chemical symbol is for radium? I do not. This one, you could probably guess fairly easily r e what? because that that was a really weird sounding A. That's because I was trying to pretend like I was from Amos.

8:10 Stop eating bubble wrap. Is he eating it or is he popping it? That's the question. Is he anxious or is he hungry? Well, he's always hungry. Amos Amos, amos Amos, no Amos. Amos, amos, amos, no Amos, I see an ear, that's about it, though I'm going to keep the snort in there. So the chemical symbol is RA. Radium is a radioactive metal which is fairly soft, it's shiny and it's silvery. In the natural environment, radium occurs at trace levels in virtually all rock, soil, water, plants and animals.

9:00 Oh my God, it's like everything. It's everywhere. I mean it's called planet Earth. Does that mean, I'm toxic? Yep. We finally know why so chronic exposure to high levels of radium can result in an increased incidence of bone, liver or breast cancer. Sure can as radium decays, it creates a radioactive gas called radon. Radon is common in many soils and can collect in homes and other buildings. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the United States. Oh shit, really yeah, I didn't know that. I know what's the first.

9:40 Probably smoking. Are you sure? Nope, you didn't look that up. This is not a health podcast, not even close. Let's have a beer, let's have a beer. She's going to say cheers, cheers to that. So the Curies managed to extract one milligram of radium from 10 tons of the uranium ore, which is a considerable feat given the chemical methods of separation available to them. Sure, what did you say? 1890? Is that what it was? It was 1898,. Yes, oh 98. Yeah, 98, yeah. So I mean that's a long time ago. So a single gram of radium back then sold for $120,000.

10:28 I'm going to ask, and you're probably going to tell me no, do you have what that would equal today? I do, oh my God, you are learning. Do you want to take a guess? No. Go ahead $12? . Afflation goes up $120,000 for a single gram. Oh shit, with the inflation these days it's got to be like a billion dollars $2.2 million Wow. Yeah that's a lot, that's crazy and why would you sell radium? Because it glows in the dark. Didn't she glow in the dark by the end of her life because she was around it so much and experimenting with it, marie Curie.

11:11 Yeah, yes, yeah, she was like crazy. So radium was called liquid sunshine. Liquid sunshine. Wow. So radium gained significant media attention. There were radium clinics and spas. They put it in water bottles like a tonic, yeah, and they had a recommended dose of five to seven glasses a day because they thought radium was going to be the cure all. So why did they think that? Because they didn't have the internet to research the facts. I understand that the internet came out a hundred years later. I realized that tumors actually shrunk with radio, yeah, so they thought it was a cure-all Gotcha.

11:59 Wow, are they wrong. So a bottle of that tonic was $200. Holy fuck, but I bet they sold a bunch of them. And today it would be $3,700. Holy shit yeah. Here death in a bottle. Yeah, you're welcome. Do you want some lung cancer? I got you. Radium was promoted as a health booster, leading to its use in various products. Leading to its use in various products. So radium could destroy human tissue and it was quickly put to use to battle cancerous tumors. Okay, and apparently it could also treat hay fever, constipation and gout. Not the gout. Yeah Huh, Radium clinics, spas and companies selling radioactive products emerged.

12:45 Get this Jock straps. Oh. God, lingerie, butter, milk, butter, mm-hmm. Milk, toothpaste, face creams, powders, soaps, even bug repellent. They're like let's just put radium in everything. No kidding, good Lord. But you want to know the funny thing. Yes. Not even all these products contain actual radium. They just said they did Yep Because it was too expensive. So snake oil kind of crap yeah. That's bullshit. Yeah, so Marie Curie developed mobile radiology units she called it radiology cars for medical treatment on the battlefield during World War I.

13:29 So when America became involved in World War I in April of 1917, this is actually when our story starts. Okay. So we're going to talk about the Radium Luminous Materials Corporation in Newark, new Jersey. Okay, have you ever been? I've never been to New Jersey. I've seen their airport. Have you? Yeah, did you fly over it or were you in it? I was in it. Oh, okay, where were you headed? Italy? Oh yeah, nice. Yeah, you told me you went there. So at that corporation they created watch faces, gun sights, ship compasses and airplane instruments. All made out of radium.

14:10 So they could glow in the dark. That's crazy. Yeah, so young women were employed there. It was considered like the best job around. Sure. And they would call on their siblings and their cousins and they would all be employed together because it was going to be a big, lucrative job. Yep, so each style painter had her own supply. They would actually mix their own paint. They would use radium powder, water and gum, arabic adhesive, and they called the luminous paint undark. Undark. Okay, I mean, it makes sense if it glowed.

14:50 So it's not dark. So did it always glow? Or is it like those things that glow in the dark where you have to have the sunshine on it for a while? No, it always glows, it just was always glowing. Okay. So that paint only contained about a small amount of radium mixed with zinc sulfide, which the the radium also reacted to to create a brilliant glow. So, mixing the paint carefully, stirring it in their crucible, most women actually ended up with splashes on their bare hands, I would imagine. And there was dust all over the work studio. It was on the flat surfaces, the floors, the counters, and it seemed to hover in the air as well.

15:31 I figured they probably inhaled quite a bit. Yeah, it settled on their shoulders and their hair and it literally made them all glow. I was going to say were they just walking around glowing they? were. That's crazy. Yes. So each worker had a slim camel hair brush with a narrow wooden handle. So it was a fine brush with only about 30 hairs. The smallest pocket watch was three and a half centimeters across, meaning the tiniest element for painting was a millimeter in width, good Lord. So how would you make these fine brushes even finer? Cut them in half.

16:12 They would put the brushes in their mouths. Ew. So it's a technique called lip pointing. Oh, where they just make a fine tip on it, yep. So they would lip dip paint. That. So they would lip dip paint. That was their like motto lip dip paint, so their insides glow too then, or their mouth at least, because, good Lord, clearly they're getting it inside of them. So the women working there were also were fairly concerned about putting the stuff in their mouth. I would hope so, but their higher ups said that it wasn't dangerous and to not be afraid. That's why you should always listen to a CEO. Yeah, but the workers were paid by piecework.

16:54 So for the number of dials they painted it was an average rate of $0.01 a watch. So they actually ranked in the top 5% of female wage earners. So they took home about an average of $20 a week, which in today's money is about $370 a week. That's terrible. The faster you painted, the more you made. Obviously. So, with all the dust in the air, the girls were asked to limit waste. So once their shift was over, they were taken to a dark room to be brushed off. Particles were swept up was a dark room so they could see where, where it was basically okay particles were swept up and used the next day, but but by the time they get home they're actually still covered, including their undergarments.

17:51 Oh, right yeah their corsets, their underclothes. Everywhere. Yeah, it was everywhere. Yeah, that's crazy. So in 1917, congress voted America into World War I and the demand for radium products skyrocketed. Because of demand, they moved from newark to orange, new jersey, and this warehouse included labs and processing plants. 70 women worked in newark and the numbers tripled in orange so did men not work here they were all at the war. They had like higher ups and people in the lab. So scientists and the CEOs C-suite C-suite.

18:33 So the company founder Sabine von Soshocki Sure. Let's go with that one. Sure, sure he was Austrian born. Oh, sure was, and I'm going to have to get used to saying that because he appears a couple of times. So, von Sockshi, yep, I'm done already. Yeah, I've lost interest in that last name. Yeah, what was his first name? Sabine. Just say that. So, as Austrian born, he was 34 and he was um a phd, so he actually invented the paint in 1913. He sold 2 000 watches initially, and now the company's output ranked in the millions.

19:17 Holy crap, yeah, so, um, he paired up with physician dr ge George Willis to start the company. Okay, sabine. See, there you go. Studied with the Curies and Pierre was heard to remark that he would not care to trust himself in a room with a kilo of pure radium. A kilo, kilo, what'd I say? A kilo Sweet. He would not care to trust himself in a room with a kilo of pure radium Because it would be bad for him, as it would burn all the skin off of his body, destroy his eyesight and probably kill him.

19:58 You don't say oh, Sabine the Curie suffered many a burn. Yeah, Radium had gotten into Pierre's index finger and he hacked the tip off. Oh Jesus Christ, Really yeah, so he's just like huh. I don't need that. I mean, I guess he probably don't need the tip. but Lab workers in the Orange Plant were actually provided with ppe personal protective equipment right I believe so they had line lead lined aprons, ivory forceps to handle tubes and sabine wrote in january of 1921 that radium should be handled by taking the greatest precautions.

20:42 No doubt. However, even though Sabine said that he also didn't care that much, Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, that's the problem with, especially back then, is there was no OSHA or whatever, so they're like the CEO guy or whatever his actual title was like ah, it's fine. You're good. It's like, yeah, yeah he's saying that because he's getting rich off of it. He doesn't give a fuck what's happening to his employees. He's not doing it, so he's fine so sabine handled the radium without ppe. He was playing with it, holding it in tubes. How? do you play with radium? it's just in the tube, so it's like a fidget toy so like how is it?

21:25 is it a liquid form or just a dust? It? might still be in the dust form, I don't know because I'm like how would you play with that? But even the other founder, george willis, was fairly lax and he didn't use any forceps when he was working with the radium. So we're gonna talk about k Catherine Schaub. Schaub. Mm-hmm, she was 15 when she started employment there, okay, in February of 1917. So she was born in 1902. So she started developing acne within a year of working at the plant and went to the doctor. Developing acne within a year of working at the plant and went to the doctor.

22:08 The doctor asked if she worked with phosphorus, as it was a well-known poison in newark. Other women had said that the paint made them sick one woman one woman got sores on her mouth just a month after working there because they were not sure what all was in the paint. They confronted their immediate boss, mr savoy. Okay, so savoy reiterated the radium's harmless nature, but the girls weren't having it. So savoy went to his superior superiors, george willis and sabine, together as doctors. They promised that the radium was used in such a small amount that it could not cause them harm, despite sabine working with pierre curie I really hope at the end of this story is them going to prison the women continued to paint.

22:57 Of course they did because they needed to make money, going as far as painting the material all over their teeth for a date? What? Why? So it would knock their partners dead, clearly, yeah. And literally. They would paint on the radium. So is that like the early form of a grill. What's? a grill, oh a teeth grill yeah. Oh gosh, I'm hungry, sorry, what I was thinking of like a barbecue grill. No, I'm talking about like oh gosh, I'm hungry, sorry, what? I was thinking of, like a barbecue grill. No, I'm talking about like no, I'm hungry. You're like what? Rappers? That was like a big thing with rappers. I mean I don't know, 10, 15, whatever years ago. As far as I know it still is. I'm old, so whatever you are and yeah, anyways, continue.

23:45 I'm just going to sit over here. So a year later, in September of 1918, arthur Roeder, a successful businessman, became the company's new treasurer. He was based in the New York location. So at one point despite sharing with the dial painters that just a year before that the radium was harmless, sabine walked through the studio where the girls were which he never did but did on this one occasion and noticed them lip dip and paint. He approached one of the painters and said don't do that, you'll get sick. And then he just left, wow, without an explanation. So he knew, yeah, because he studied with Pierre.

24:26 Yeah, and he just again just wanted to sell more watches and scopes and blah, blah, blah, blah blah. So, november 11th 1918, world War I ended and many of the dial painters went on to marry and to start a family, and many were replaced by new women. Okay, the summer of 1919, a new chemist was brought on and he was the future vice president of the company, howard barker. He started formulating the paint Mesothorium. Okay, so radium-226, which is what they were using, is now converted into an isotope called radium-228.

25:16 Ooh, too high. So the original radium-226 had a half-life of 1,600 years. Okay. Radium-228 had a half-life of 6.7 years. So did they do that, so it would run out, so they could produce more. They did it because it was cheaper and much more abrasive. They would still mix the paint. Paint, but it was a cheaper version but also much, much more dangerous, with a half-life of less than seven years, right, wow. So despite the war being over, production actually didn't slow down.

25:59 The company decided to start selling undark, now trademark trademarked, to consumers and manufacturers. Making this change drastically reduced the original dial painter's work, so the women started looking for other jobs. Okay, meanwhile, women were experiencing stiffness in their joints and was constantly tired. They felt run down, weight started dropping off their bodies and their jaws started aching, oh dear. In the summer of 1921, co-founder George Willis sold a large share of his stock to the treasurer Arthur Roeder, and Willis and Sabine were oust in a corporate takeover.

26:42 That's the treasurer who became vice president. You said yes, Right. Yes, so the new name of this corporation is now the United States Radium Corporation, or USRC. Okay, arthur Broder is now the president. Yes. Okay, okay. So there's this girl, molly Maggia. Maggia, yeah, poor, poor or molly magia oh dear yeah, what happened to molly? well, she ended up at the dentist. She had a tooth ache I bet she did so they removed her tooth naturally well, because that's what you do you don't fix it, you just remove it yeah, so her tooth actually never healed, so there was just a constant wound in her mouth.

27:26 Oh, so, like the the spot where the tooth was, as you're saying, it never healed so she went to a second dentist hoping for a diagnosis or a cure, like, hey, what's going on here, right? That dentist was dr joseph neff, k-n-e-f. Neff. Okay, for weeks she had pain in her lower gum and jaw. It was so unbearable. The socket from her tooth removal failed to heal and several of her other teeth were loose. Oh Jesus, dr Neff treated her for pyuria, which is an inflammatory disease affecting tissues around the teeth. Okay.

28:06 But she became steadily worse. Molly had more teeth removed, oh jeez. Neff tried to alleviate the infection, but none of the extractions ever healed. Imagine that. And then ulcers started to form. Oh gross. But Molly continued to work. She needed the money. Well, yeah, I mean that's why we all work, because we need the money. So it kind of sucks. Co-workers would try to engage in conversation and even though Molly was sore, she talked less and less because there was just a horrendous odor coming from her mouth, yeah, because it's decaying. She was rotting yeah. Oh, that's gross.

28:46 So next she would have aches and pains in her hips and her feet and the doctor thought it was rheumatism and they sent her home with aspirin. Take two of these and call me in the morning. Yeah. Jesus. The more Dr Neff tried to help, the worse she became. That dude needs to fucking stop. Well, Neff no longer pulled out her teeth. Oh, thank God, Because she probably didn't have many left. They just fell out on their own. Yeah weird, oh, that's gross. Her mouth was literally disintegrating. So by January 1922, doctors tested her for syphilis. The test was negative Weird yeah. And Dr Neff concluded that she had phosphorus poisoning Fosse jaw is what they called it.

29:31 Fosse jaw. I remember I don't think it has anything to do with this I saw a picture of a guy who was treated with radium or whatever. I don't remember the whole details of this, but it was a picture and his jaw just fell off. Yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned Okay cool, all right. So Fosse jaw is tooth loss, gum inflammation, necrosis and pain. You don't say so. Dr Neff found where she worked and he investigated himself. He asked for the paint formula but was denied. He was told it contained no phosphorus.

30:12 Did they not realize radium had phosphorus in it? Is that why they say that? No, it had no phosphorus in it. Right, radium had no phosphorus. Okay, radium is an element by itself, correct? Yeah, and the paint was mixed with was not mixed with phosphorus. Okay, gotcha, the doctor just thought it was Fossey draw, gotcha. Oh, so he misdiagnosed it because he didn't know. Yes, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, so he asked for the paint formulation, thinking there was phosphorus in there. They wouldn't give him that info anyways. No, but they did declare that there was no phosphorus in the paint Gotcha. So Molly's mouth was full of sores and ulcers and she could barely speak. She couldn't eat and she was full of agony.

30:54 Her lower jaw, roof of her mouth and bones of her inner ear were all one huge abscess. Oh, chris, molly finally quit her job as a dial painter. Little late Molly became nearly lame with the aches in her hips and feet. She went to dr neff again. He probed inside her mouth barely any teeth left raw red ulcers. And from the book that I mentioned earlier, from kate moore, quote to his hoarder and shock even though his touch had been gentle, her jawbone broke against his fingers. He then removed it, not by operation but merely by putting his fingers in her mouth and lifting it out.

31:40 That's disgusting. Yeah, Wow, yeah. Could you imagine like take a second Just going to remove your jaw? Holy fuck. Doesn't that sound intense? That sounds terrible, Like agonizingly terrible that is. But we're not done, I'm sure we're not. Just a week later, her lower jaw was removed in the same exact way. Oh fuck. Neff tested her for syphilis again. This time the test came back positive, but the results were kept from her why, if she had known her results, she would have told him that that wasn't possible, I think, to keep her from being embarrassed.

32:22 Maybe I don't know okay, I mean but she would have told him no, that's not possible, I'm possible, I'm a good girl, I'm a good little Catholic girl. That just works at the dial Plus. Who wants to fuck this? I got no, teeth what. I mean seriously no. Once her jaw was removed, the affected parts of her mouth. Instead of slowing disintegration, it sped up. Really. Wow. So it didn't help. She was starting to get painful sores in her throat. Oh geez, her jaw was spontaneously bleed and the infection spread and ate its way through her jugular vein. Wow, on september 12 1922, with her mouth flooded with blood, mouth empty of teeth and jawbone, died a painful and terrible death.

33:13 No kidding. She was 24 years old. That's sad Wow. That escalated quickly yeah. So let's open up a new plant, shall we? In September? Well, we need more undark watches. In September so the same month that she died, september 1922, a new plant was built in Ottawa Illinois. Actually they used like an old high school, and Ottawa Illinois is actually less than an hour of where my husband grew up. Oh, there you go, shout out to Illinois, favorite state of the union. So the new Radium factory started hiring.

33:55 The population of Ottawa was around 11,000. Now it's about 19,000 people. So it hasn't increased very much. It's 85 miles southwest of Chicago, so it's kind of like right dab in the middle. Yeah, the best part of the state. So the company is called the radium dial company and it was um. The president of the company was joseph a kelly um. Here workers were encouraged to paint rings on their fingers, paint their buttons on dresses and buckles because it glow in the dark. These people are insane. The women took the paint home, painted their walls for decoration here in Ottawa. They could waste the paint. They didn't partake in any washing facilities and went home looking like glowing angels.

34:41 So why was this place so different that they're just like, yeah, just whatever man. Well, now it's being made with that word. I can can't pronounce that mesotherium yeah so it's a lot cheaper now I suppose yeah, that would be why okay so in ottawa they were called the ghost girls not the radium girls no, the ghost girls, ghost girls, yeah so back in newark, new jersey, women were being treated for diseased bones in their mouths. Okay, removing teeth, jawbone, jesus, and continually seeing no improvement. You don't say Again, phosphorus was deemed the culprit. They didn't find any. How can it be the culprit?

35:21 Well, they took their word for it. Well, they also took. That's fine, It'll be good Actually. Actually. So pieces were starting to add up, women telling their doctors about Molly, who died with the same symptoms, and new cases emerging. New cases were still reported as Fosse-Jaw to the Industrial Hygiene Division and they were asked to investigate that division, which they did immediately. So authorities noticed the lip paint method and a paint sample was taken for testing. A chemist who didn't even test the sample but knew as an educated man that there was probably not any phosphorus in the paint and concluded that the infection was likely due to radium weird huh, you don't say he started testing the samples in 1923.

36:15 George willis, the co-founder of the orange firm, having handled radium with his bare hands, had his right thumb amputated. That sucks. It was riddled with cancer. By April of 1923, the chemist concluded his tests. No phosphorus was found. Again, everything was due to radium poisoning. Yeah, after reviewing the tests and the results, the Department of Labor did nothing. They did nothing. You know yeah. Good talk. I'm going to stop there. In July 1923, Catherine Schaub, who had acne at 15.

36:58 Sure did. Started taking matters into her own hands. She went to the Department of Health. Okay. She told them about her coworkers who were sick and about the one who died, and she called the United States Radium Corporation out by name. I would have. A memo was filed, a call was made. The foreman of the USRC, named Veet, said the claims were not true, and that was that. Yeah, because you know we're not going to listen to this little girl. No, we're just going to listen to this man who says can't be that way. A few months later, another investigator looked into the memo. Veet was out of town, so she did nothing.

37:41 Really, yep, just because it was out of town? Yep, that is worthless work. At this time, approximately five women have died. Holy crap. In late 1923, lip paint pointing had finally stopped. The memo to the woman, to the women explained to the girls that the lip dip method spoiled the adhesive. That was their excuse. It spoiled the adhesive and killed you finally, the us public health Service issued an official report across the nation. Safety precautions should most definitely be undertaken by those handling radium. No kidding. The USRC was undergoing massive losses.

38:23 More and more girls became sick. Recruiting was difficult because of all the rumors, and now production was being held up. One of the sick girl's mother told the company she was about to make a claim for compensation on account of her daughter's illness. Their attention was got. Imagine that. The USRC execs finally decided to launch an investigation of their own, headed by President Arthur Roeder. Weird, and he didn't find anything wrong, did he? Well, President Arthur Roeder contacted Dr Cecil Drinker. Drinker Mm-hmm, don't mind if I do he is.

39:05 He was a Harvard industrial hygienist. Hygienist, hygienist, hygienist, hygienist, hygienist, hygiene. It's about hygiene. I get the word Hygienist Pretty positive. That's how you say it. Hygienist, oh God, hygienist. Let's call the whole thing off, I'm done. Anyway, he was an industrial hygienist and his wife, catherine, also was Industrial hygienist. So upon studying the radium, the factory and the glowing girls, they were horrified. You don't say, they noticed as well that chief chemist, Dr Edward nope, Edwin Lehman.

39:54 Nope. Had some serious lesions on his hands. You don't say Is that going to be the title of this podcast? You don't say Nope. Lehman scoffed at the seriousness of this problem. He's like nah, I'm fine lesions. It's just. It's just a scratch. You should see my back. It's just a flesh wound. It's just a flesh wound. The drinkers knew that radium was at fault, but the status quo remained the same, which means the status quo. I just realized the status quo means. It's the same thing. It sure does.

40:35 Yeah, the status quo remains the same. That's the title. Oh, that's great. Jesus Christ, tell me more about the status quo staying the same. Oh man, that's some good stuff, right there. So everything remained the same, aka the status quo. Wait what?

41:17 Say what. Oh my goodness. Okay, so everything stayed the same. Nobody changed anything. Would you say it was all status quo. It was all status quo. All right, continue, go on. Let's get past this, for the sake. Drinkers testing took weeks to come back. Okay, woo, wow, of course. When the report was ready, no surprise, radium was at fault. Yep, like they said. Uh-huh and he recommended PPE. Well, you don't say Stop saying that I did that one on purpose. When President Arthur Roeder learned of Drinker's plans to publish the report, roeder threatened to sue.

41:59 I'm going to sue you, go ahead. Well Drinker decided to drop it. What a fucking bitch Really. Yeah, corporations were much too large to battle in court at this time. It just didn't happen. But the thing is, it's like you're not really battling the corporation, You're battling for people's lives here, and it's just like you know what Hands off. I'm good. So this next quote was taken from a Harvard School school of public health article in 2013 2013 okay, quote while drinker reluctantly agreed not to publish the report, his colleague alice hamilton refused to back down that a boy what, through a contact in the national consumers league, she learned that us radium had submitted cecil drinker's report to the new jersey department of labor with the findings altered to present the company in a more positive light.

43:05 hamilton alerted both drinkers. The New Jersey Department of Labor has a copy of your report and it shows that every girl is in perfect condition. Do you suppose Roeder could do such a thing as to issue a forged report in your name? She wrote in a 1925 letter to Catherine Drinker. Confronted with the evidence that Roeder had acted in bad faith, the drinker, the drinkers ignored the continued threat of a lawsuit and published the report. Good for them. He forged drinkers report. What a dick. That is a dick move, because he just to say, yeah, everyone's cool, man, it's all sunshines and rainbows.

43:49 Even my hands are beautiful little. I had to chop my thumb off, but we're cool, it's fine. Wait, that was a different guy. Every woman had a clean bill of health and there was no occupational hazard at this company. Yeah, they had a clean bill of health before they started working there. Yeah, everybody was in the clear. So the drinkers published right. The firm then hired Dr Frederick Flynn. He was an assistant professor of physiology at the Institute of Public Health at Columbia University. Same as drinker, he specialized in industrial hygiene. Okay. Okay. So he also had a history of downplaying the hazards of industrial work.

44:29 What a dick Earlier. In 1925, he'd been hired by the Ethel Corporation to find evidence that leaded gas was safe. To what drink? No, just to work around. Oh, okay, flynn was a PhD, not an MD. Oh, clearly, keep that in mind. Yeah, I got locked in, locked, locked Loaded. Oh, clearly, keep that in mind. Yeah, I got locked in, locked, locked, loaded. So he examined many women who were experiencing strange symptoms and assured them that they were healthy. He told one Connecticut woman quote on eight separate occasions that there was not a single trace of radium in her body. She later died from that radium poisoning. End quote. So it must have got in there after he said that.

45:10 Must have. I mean clearly. Super fast. I mean that's pretty impressive that there was none there when he looked at her. Flynn also examined the cases of five women who had died after working with radium in New Jersey and concluded radium poisoning was not the cause. An industrial hazard does not exist in the painting of luminous dials On dark. Not the cause. An industrial hazard does not exist in the painting of luminous dials Undark. Then, on June 7th 1925, the first male employee died. Oh, now we're going to take shit seriously. Dr Lehman, the one with the serious lesions on his hands. He died. He died at 36. Yeah, that's I mean. I know life expectancy was lower back then, but Jesus Christ.

45:52 So there was a Newark physician named Dr Harrison Martland who conducted the autopsy on Lehman, and Martland actually made medical history, really. He reduced Lehman's bones to ashes and tested them with an electrometer which measures radioactivity in the body. He was successful in finding radium poisoning which saturated Lehman's remains. So that's how he did it. He had to like reduce them all to ashes in order to test them Sure, sure. So back during the drinkers initial investigation, a woman named Catherine Wiley was an executive secretary of the Consumers League, which was a national organization that fought for better working conditions for women, and John Roach from the Department of Labor.

46:42 Both of them conducted their own investigation. So Wiley met with a woman named Marguerite Carlo Okay, and she was experiencing awful conditions. Well, like everyone else, so, taken from Kate Moore's book quote I can never rest until I've seen something done whereby I am assured it will not happen again, and I will stick to this thing until there is some action somewhere. End quote. So that was Katherine Wiley. She interviewed even more girls to discuss their ailments, and Wiley consulted a local judge on how families can take legal action. So New Jersey law had come in only that same year that made industrial diseases compensable, compensable, compensable, um, come come.

47:31 Compensable, compensable, compensable, um. But only nine diseases were on that list and there was a five month statute of limitations, meaning any legal acclaim had to be filed within five months of the point of injury. Radium poisoning was not on that list one, and most of the girls had not been employed by the corporation for years, right. So the judge said that if the radium poisoning is ever made a compensable disease, it would not be retroactive, so nothing could be done for these girls. That's horseshit. Do you have the nine that were on the list? No, okay, I mean, I knew the answer. I have a different number. Later I knew the answer, but yeah. Wiley wrote to Dr Alice Hamilton, a scientist of industrial toxicology.

48:18 Remember she worked with drinkers? Yep, she was a faculty member at Harvard University, working under Dr Cecil Drinker, but she too undertook her own investigation. Shit was getting real Shit's going down. So Wiley reached out to a Dr Frederick Hoffman. He was a statistician who specialized in industrial diseases and worked for the Prudential Insurance Company. Okay. He gathered evidence for Prudential like the rock. Prudential. Yeah. The rock. What do you mean? Theirential like the rock, prudential. Yeah, the rock, what do you mean? Their symbol I? think is like a cliff. Yeah, it might still be that same company. He gathered evidence for several radium factories, the women who were sick and their doctors who worked on them.

49:01 His report was sent to the American Medical Association to be printed. His study was the first major study to connect the women's illnesses to their work. Sure, as early as 1914, specialists knew that radium could deposit in bone and cause changes in the blood. So radium stimulated bone marrow to produce extra red blood cells, which was a good thing. Right. At first. Until you have too much exposure exposure yeah, radium did boost the health of those ingesting it, but it was an illusion. The stimulation of bone marrow soon became over stimulated okay, and the body can't keep up. Hoffman said that the cumulative effect was disastrous, destroying red blood cells, causing anemia and necrosis.

49:47 He said the disease should be brought under the workman's compensation laws, and that's what katherine wiley was attempting to do. In 1926 wiley's new law had been signed into being. Radium necrosis was now finally a compensable disease there you go. Is that number 10? however, the bill could not be applied retroactively. No one was injured before the 1926 could claim. See, that's fucked up as a new amendment of the original law of nine compensable diseases. It automatically had a five-month statute of limitation.

50:28 So they kind of fucked themselves by putting it on there. Yes, so a time which was never long enough for radium poisoning to become evident right also the law only covered radium necrosis of the jaw oh, good lord, is that? because that's what happened to most of those people so not anemia, not locked hips or broken thighs, disintegrating backs, losing teeth none of that. The law was literally drafted so that no one could collect. So Wiley realized her mistake and, with the Consumers League, began campaigning to get radium poisoning into the law. Sure makes sense, yeah. So meanwhile Dr Neff the dentist became a scumbag it sounded like he was before.

51:18 No, he was trying. He was trying really hard to get these girls. I mean he removed her jaw. That was weird. It was kind of an accident that one was. But he ended up a scumbag. So, having seen many of these girls for loose teeth, mouth, mouth ulcers and jaw necrosis for free, because they're all broke, he developed a plan oh dear neff gathered the usrc execs and said if you pay me, I'll keep my mouth shut about the women so he basically extorted yes wow. Their pain had caused the sicknesses which he was trying to treat and literally all the women had loyalty to him. Why. Because he was literally the only person trying to help.

52:00 Because he would see them for free. Yes. But, now his loyalty to the women vanished. Clearly because it went to the almighty dollar. Neff asked for $10,000, which was, which back then was quite a lot $134,000 today. Not as much as you would think. And will have every second woman come to him for treatment, as he thought the women thought of him as a friend. What a dick. That dude is a scumbag. Neff even volunteered to get on the stand and testified that no, the women are not troubled by radioactivity and they're just gonna believe this guy, though. What the fuck kind of credibility does he? have. So if neff couldn't make a deal with the execs, he declared that he was going to sue the women and they would have to pay him out he was gonna get money from.

52:47 Somewhere he was looking to get a payday. Yes, that's what it was, okay. So, unbeknownst to Neff, the USRC already employed Dr Flynn, and that was going well. So they sent him packing, masking a moral high ground as they dismissed him when the news came out on the line oh, we didn't take his bribes. We're moral, we're better than that, sounds like our government. So now I'm going to talk about Grace Fryer. Grace Fryer. So she had a whole list of medical conditions and she had been trying to find lawyers for a while.

53:28 Were they hiding the lawyers no, find lawyers for a while Were they hiding the lawyers. No no lawyers would take them. Just because they didn't want to go against the corporation. No, they were broke and they demanded money up front Gotcha okay. Because I'm like she was trying to find lawyers. I'm like I didn't know the lawyers hid. I mean one call, that's all. It's everywhere. That's a joke with our Wisconsin. No. So my buddy Al, our one listener From Las Vegas, hi, al. Well, no, he's in Las Vegas. He lived, him and his wife lived in Arizona for a little bit and I went to go visit him and we were driving up the freeway, we were going to go to a casino down in Arizona and I'm like I didn't realize this was a franchise and it's a random dude.

54:17 It says one call, that's all. Let's not call him out by name on this. We're not. He's not paying us. He's everywhere. And and unlike him, I want to get paid up front, not if, only if we win. But yeah, it's like I saw, and this was years ago, so you can tell how long this has been around. It's like I didn't realize it was like franchised or some shit. It's like McDonald's or One Call, that's All. What do you want to start, anyways. Okay, so Grace Fryer, she's trying to find a lawyer, right? Yeah, so she ends up at a small firm of Potter and Berry. So Raymond H Berry was not even 30 yet. He came out of Yale and he's a junior partner, father of three girls, three Mm-hmm.

55:04 So he conducted a brief investigation. He went to Martland's labs he was the guy who did the autopsy, martland. Yeah. And he interviewed Sabine von Soshki. Oh, you're. You're attempting it again, sabine, let's just go with Sabine. Barry decided to take their case, maybe because he had three girls and they kind of influenced him. Maybe and or he's like. I'm going to make a name for myself. That too you never know. So Barry campaigned that the two-year statute of limitations should start once a formal diagnosis was received, which was years after the women left the factory. Right Grace Fryer made a formal complaint against USRC on May 18th 1927, and she demanded $125,000 in damages 1.7 million today.

55:52 Wow, and that was on one count and a second count. She was assuming for a total of $250,000, which is 3.4 million today. I got the math. Five women, one by one, filed suit. Grace Fryer, Catherine Schaub with the acne. Ac yeah, kinta mcdonald, kinta, kinta, albina loris and edna husman edna barry found a specialist named elizabeth hughes, who was a physicist and former assistant to sabine. Sabine is everywhere. I mean, can you blame them? Jeez Louise, she would run new radioactivity tests on the women, but how, if you?

56:43 recall, the only way to extract radium from a victim's bones was to burn them. Is it reduced to ash? Yeah, so you just cremate them and they'll be fine. Obviously, none of the women could help, but if you recall, molly Maggia. Yeah. The first death. Yeah, she could. They dig her up. The woman who died of syphilis. Yeah, died of syphilis they dug her up. October 15th 1927 at the Rosedale Cemetery, 13 officials in all gathered witness to Molly's exhumation Dr Flynn, Barry, Mrs Hughes, Dr Martland, to name a few. Despite the dim fall day, the coffin glowed, that's crazy.

57:25 Unmistakably radiant. That's crazy, crazy. Her body went through x-rays, bones ignited into ash, she was tested for radioactivity and shocker or no shocker there was no evidence of syphilis or phosphorus, or phosphorus it was the damn radium. So january 12th 1928, the trial began with judge becks. So barry the attorney, um all with mr barry. All the women would share their stories and their agony and all the doctors would share their findings. So sabine got up there and dr neff, the fucker, got up there.

58:06 The the fucker. In particular Elizabeth Hughes. Why did Neff get up there when they told him to go basically go fuck yourself? Or was that later, when it came out there like moral high ground? That would have been after this. No, I think it all happened before the trial. He still wanted to get paid. He was still looking for a payday. Yeah, okay. So Elizabeth Hughes was employed at the bureau of standards, which is now the national institute of standards and technology, where she specialized in radium measurements. Her work at the bureau provided her with in-depth knowledge. In-depth knowledge of radium's properties, its effect on the human body and the message methods to measure radium content in various substances.

58:51 Her measurements of radium content in the dial painters bodies and their work environments helped to establish the link between radium exposure and the women's illnesses. In 1928, the usrc asked to reconvene in september of 1928 because many of their experts would be traveling abroad in the summer. Tell them to fucking cancel their trip. Well, the ailing women, they pointed out, they may not live to see the end of the trial yeah, no kidding we went from april and they're like, okay, we're gonna reconvene in september, see you in five months. Isn't that ridiculous? Well, that's how it worked back then, because people had to vacay well, even that, the travel was a lot harder.

59:33 So there was a huge public outcry, Newspapers, including the World, which was the most powerful newspaper of the day. Their girls posed for photo shoots, they conducted interviews, they shared horrifying stories, all to stay in the public eye, With the public platform, the public sympathy and the case's momentum. Judge Bex actually reinterpreted the law to Barry in a way that would benefit the women, Because the bones contained radium and the radium was still hurting them. They were still being injured and this statute began again, new each moment of that injury wow so barry's former boss judge william clark.

1:00:17 Barry was a clerk to clark a clerk barry was a clerk to clark, when Clark was a partner and he actually told Barry to settle out of court. Of course he did. Yeah, barry considered this, not because he didn't think he could win, but that the women may not make it in time for justice Sure, and Judge Clark offered to be the unofficial mediary. Imagine that. So USRC agreed as settling this case out of court would not only make the negative publicity go away, but also meant that the company can choose when to fight. Agreed as, settling this case out of court would not only make the negative publicity go away, but also meant that the company can choose when to fight its battles in court. It's inevitable for future lawsuits and it will get easier once the women were not plastered all over the news right. So friday june 1st, the company offered them ten thousand dollars each, which is approximately 138 000 in today's money.

1:01:06 There it is, with all medical bills and litigation costs. They'd only receive a pittance, right Just a little, a little bit. Well, that's the thing, because even back then, $10,000 was a lot, but you've got to pay all these bills due to your illness, injury, whatever you want to call it yes. That's nothing. The women said no Good and countered All right. They countered with $15,000. Oh Jesus Christ, $208,000 today. But they wanted it as a cash lump sum and they wanted a pension of $600 a year for life, which is over $8,000 today. Of course, life for them is not that much longer. No, but $600 a year, year for life and for past and future medical expenses, and the usrc was to cover all court costs.

1:01:55 So that was their counter. The company agreed the following monday. However, all demands were met, except the fifteen thousand dollar lump sum. They included the original 10,000 and all the women ended up signing. So they gave, they caved a little bit caved a little bit. So they're getting $10,000 lump sum, they're getting the $600 a year life pension and they're getting all of their medical bills passed in future paid and they're covering all the court costs. So but the settlement. Here's the kicker. The settlement specified that the company had no guilt. See, that doesn't make sense. It was written in the contract that they were not going to take any of their responsibility.

1:02:37 It was not negligent and the claims of the plaintiffs are barred by the statute of limitations. So USRC also made a statement that we settled it purely because it was humanitarian yeah, they're trying to put a positive spin on it and be like look at us go yeah, so another part of the settlement was that the company insisted that a committee of three doctors were to set up to examine the girls regularly. So one doctor was appointed by the girls, one doctor was appointed by USRC and one doctor was appointed mutually. So if any two doctors' opinions are that the girls are no longer suffering from radium poisoning, the payments were to cease.

1:03:20 Sure, I thought that was pretty logical. I mean, it makes sense right. Yeah. So now, if you recall that mesotherium was added to the radium paint yeah which had a half-life of 6.7 years. Well, those years were miserable for those women, obviously, but as the half-life passed, the attack also diminished okay however, the damage was already done sure, yes, 228 yes, so just briefly. The iowa, illinois, radium dial company opened in 1917 using their version of undark called luma. These girls would have read the news coverage about the new jersey workers, but the radium dial company claimed that it was the element of mesothelium that was a culprit in new jersey and that radium dial paint was safe because it contained no mesothelium, only radium.

1:04:10 Only. Approximately 40 women had died For a short period of time, even closer to my husband. Yet they opened up a plant in Streeter, illinois, streeter, streeter Okay. So the company officials feared that the publicity from the New Jersey dial painters might scare Ottawa workers. Streeter residents were less likely to read about something happening out east. But that plant only stayed in operation for about nine months. Oh, why so short? I don't know, I didn't look that up, okay, but there's a statue there of a radium girl.

1:04:53 They don't deserve it. They're open for nine fucking months. Fuck that. That is so dumb. Okay. Seriousness Year minimum. Seriousness. Oh my God, we weren't serious before. On December 7th 1929. Oh, he was going to bring up the Juno. Do you know what happened on December 6th? Stop it right now. At least you knew where I was going to go with that. I saw that. Look in your eye. No, I don't Do tell what happened on December 6th, the day before Pearl Harbor. On December 7th 1929, keenta MacDonald died of a sarcoma.

1:05:39 She was 29 years old. In 1929? Mm-hmm. She was born in 1900? Mm-hmm. Catherine Schaub fell on the steps, broke her knee and they found a sarcoma. She declined amputate amputation and then I don't know. And then she later reconsidered. She's like okay, I don't need this leg. In fact, I got another one, yeah, but it was too late yeah, imagine that yeah, she died february 18th 1933 at 31 years old. Damn. Grace fryer died on october 27th 1933 at 34 years old. Edna husman died in 1939 at 37 years old she almost made it to 40 well, Well.

1:06:25 Albina Laris died November 17, 1946 at 51 years old Wow, oldest radium girl. That's crazy, so in 1929, the US Department of Labor identified 23 fatalities attributing to radium poisoning. In 1931, the examiner reported five deaths from bone cancer among a sample of 18 formal dial painters. The other 13 were from various related diseases. The doctor stated this proved that radiation could cause cancer. By 1959, deaths from recorded radiation exposure had reached 45, although thousands more are expected to have died from radiation exposure.

1:07:07 Just without the actual diagnosis of it. Diagnosis, yeah. It wasn't until 1938, when a dying radium worker named Catherine Wolfe Donahue successfully sued the Radium Dial Company in Ottawa over her illness, that the issue was finally settled. Another group of women won a lawsuit against the radium dial company in Illinois that required protective measures for dial painters. According to Kate Moore in the book, these cases paved the way for American labor rights milestones throughout the 20th century and then inevitably inevitably inevitably, indubitably, throughout the 20th century and inevitably led to the creation of the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, aka OSHA.

1:08:14 Radium taught the world of radiation's dangers, yet it was not until 2005 that Congress put that's wild. Yeah. Radium now is considered. Radium-223, another isotope, is sometimes used to treat prostate and breast cancer in patients who are medically inoperable. Gotcha, it can treat sarcomas that has spread into bone tissue, but otherwise it is really not used in today's medical history or medical world. Sure, that is the story of the radium girls. What, what else? What else do they use? radium, for do you know um they also used it in um I think it was like nuclear.

1:08:56 It wasn't nuclear, it's just industrial radiography applications, so mostly in the medical world. Okay, do you know when the USRC closed? Because I can't imagine they're still open. No, I think I wrote that down somewhere, but no, I don't remember. Okay, but they clearly closed right. Yeah, they don't exist anymore. No, because they just murder people with their products. Let's see when did the USRC close? 19? 1926, that's when they closed. Wow, so they weren't open for very long then, nope in the grand 1917 to 1926 well, when you had that much shit going down, you're bound and plus they were losing money at the end there because no one wanted to work there yeah, everybody was done, yeah and the people who to work there.

1:09:46 Yeah, everybody was dying, yeah, and the people who did work there. well, they died. Yeah, isn't that crazy. That's such a crazy story. It really is, because I mean, do you want to see some pictures? Not at the moment. Oh, okay, I was just going to show you a picture of a sarcoma on someone's chin. I'm good, are you sure? Because I've got it up right now. Yeah, let's do it. Looks like a giant ball sack hanging off her face. Or a sarcoma caused by radium poisoning. That's what I meant to say Sure, sure, sure, sure Sarcoma. I'm going to have a couple pictures on our social media of some of the radium girls. Yeah, it's. Only one of them is a little gruesome, and it was the sarcoma on the chin or the ball sack well, that's nuts, because you don't expect that.

1:10:35 You expect to go to work and be okay to a degree. Obviously there's obviously variations of that. But back then I mean that's 100 years ago they didn't fucking know but, some of them did. And the fact that they're like nah, you're good yeah. In fact. Mia's CEO says you're fine. And Marie Curie also died of radium poisoning. Yep, because she was. But isn't that like, how was that how that wasn't how x-rays were found? But isn't that like, how was that how? That wasn't how x-rays were found, but she did a lot of work with it to over quite a long time. Right, she lived for a while, so she wasn't, but she also wasn't put in her fucking mouth was she, no, she wasn't, yeah, so.

1:11:21 I don't remember how long, how long she lived, because they discovered it in 1898, right, but I didn't write down when she died, how long she lived, because they discovered it in 1898. Right, but I didn't write down when she died. It's all right, I know she was around for a bit so. I'm going to look. This is 1934. Oh, so how old was she though? She was 66. Older than any of those other girls that died. So I mean she died of anemia older than any of those other girls that died, so I mean she died of anemia, but again, she also wasn't dipping it in her brush into radium nope and then repeat lip dip paint repeat so well, here's a health fact for all you don't ingest radium.

1:12:08 Don't work in a radium factory. Just stay away from radium. So you want to know how Pierre Curie died. I do now. I didn't care before that sentence. He died in 1906 at 46 years old. Okay. From a car accident. Really Well a street accident is, I guess, how they described it, not a car accident. Well, a street accident Is, I guess, how they Described it not a car. His skull was crushed Under the wheel of a horse drawn carriage. I was going to say he died by I was going to bring up a horse there. Yeah. That must have been a pretty heavy fucking carriage. Ouch, poor guy Never even got to die of radium poisoning. Sad life, such high hopes and horse carriage killed him.

1:12:55 Yeah. Well, I mean thanks for bringing me down. This was. Have you seen those like TikToks or I'm not really on tick tock, but I still see videos and stuff through like Pinterest and whatever but of these people who are dressed in all black with like black hoods and everything, but then they put like glow sticks on their body to look like um skeletons or stick men. I haven't. I mean I've seen other places, but yeah, I kind of want to do that. I haven't. I mean I've seen other places, but yeah. I kind of want to do that. You should totally do that, except for I don't like hoods, Like they kind of creep me out. Okay. Anyway, so I wouldn't do that. So they see my face. Well, you know which kind of defeats the purpose.

1:13:37 I'm going to drink some more beer now. And on that note, I suppose. Well, well, I suppose. All right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode. Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you, next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore. Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on Reddit, x, instagram and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcasts at gmailcom. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

1:14:19 Remember the buffoonery never stops you.