The Whole Thing’s a Latrine: Henry Gunther

0:00 I was wondering after all this time if you'd like to meet to go over everything. They say that I'm supposed to be a healer. I don't know those words. Let's move on, shall we? So? hey, there. Oh, hey there. How's it going, Kate? I'm good. How are you?

0:40 I'm doing well. Welcome to History Buffoons. Yes yeah, we are two buffoons that don't know anything about history. We sure do try. You know we do our best and we just hope that some people also learn something along the way. Yeah, I've definitely learned something. You know or two. I've learned how much you don't remember. Yeah. That's why we record things. We're not doing this for anybody else but you. This is so you can go back, it's like wait, I did an episode on this. Let me go back and listen to it. Yeah, it's like oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, for sure. Anywho. So this is we're what? Episode 52. Wow, we're over 50.

1:21 I like how we're making more of a deal of 52 than we did of 50. Because we didn't remember. Yeah, we forgot. Anyways, that was the. We passed the 50 mark. That was the third episode of the Dyatlov Pass incident, so hopefully people enjoyed that. Yeah, I don't know. I enjoyed it. I liked researching that. Yeah, it was definitely interesting to learn about, because I I didn't know anything about it before you and audra brought it up. So yeah, but anyways, thanks again to audra yeah, she was awesome yeah, for being our first guest. A few episodes back, anywho so we would stated a while back.

2:04 Yeah that we, uh, we went to Ohio and on our way back we grabbed a couple of beers from the States we went through so we got. The first one was from Ohio that we tried first. This one's from Indiana. Sure is Fort Wayne, fort Wayne, fort Wayne. So at one point Nathan actually interviewed for a job in Fort Wayne. I think you had told me that, yeah, yeah, yeah, at one point, nathan, actually interviewed for a job in Fort Wayne. I think you had told me that, yeah, yeah, we weren't totally upset about it because we were still kind of within driving distance of his grandfather. Yeah, I suppose. But yeah, Anyway, this is from Harvester, oh is it? Harvester Lager is the full name. I think that's the beer. Harvester Lager is the full name.

2:44 I think that's the beer. So it's a playoff of the International Harvester, like big farm equipment logo. Oh okay, it's called Chapman's Brewing Company. Yeah, and that's. Harvest Lager is the name of the beer. Oh gosh, it's been around for a really long time, since 2012. Oh my God, they're so old. Harvester Lager. So so play off of what international harvester. It's a? Um company that makes farming equipment. Oh, and I think I think I've heard of it they're they're based out of, actually, racine. I used to pass their plant all the time when I went to work um. But so you see how it's a h and an l yeah just cut off the the lip of the l, if you will, and it's ih international harvester, so that's just to play off their logo. okay, but yeah, I like the lip of the L, if you will, and it's IH International Harvester, so that's just a play off their logo.

3:26 I like the yellow of the can. Yeah, for sure. But this is a lager, a 4.25 ABV, and it says it channels the spirit of a Midwest icon. Yeah, which is international. That's what you were talking about. Okay, perfect. What do you have? I have a collaboration between Sun King Brewery, which I don't know anything about, but they're based in Indiana and Florida, and Three Floyds Brewing, which I've had many other beers. I've had one on the podcast, actually, if I'm not mistaken, it's got like a comic strip on here. Oh. Yeah. Can't see it in the camera though. Oh, I'm sorry, there we go.

4:07 Yeah, yeah, nice, so Cool. And what kind of beer is it? It's an. India, pale Ale, fourth Rider of Light. It's very yeah cool. All right, indiana beers, here we go. I got us our koozies to help us keep our beers cold. I've got a Milwaukee Zoo koozie. Yeah, and I got a bat cave from Lost Canyon Cave at Top of the Rock in Missouri. Cheers to 52. Cheers to 52. It's not too shabby. Mine is very wheat-like Wheat forward over a lager. Yeah, interesting, do you like it? Mm-hmm, mine's forward over a lager. Yeah, interesting, do you like it? Mm-hmm.

4:48 Mine's good. Yeah, it's very good. I forgot to see what my ABV is. One pint. Mine's a 60-ounce can too, which is great. It's already getting sweaty because it's warm as fuck in here. I don't know where my ABV is on this bad boy, but that's all right. Either way, I look forward to consuming this whole fucking thing. Did you like the taste, initial taste? I did, yes, wonderful. I'm going to probably like this initial second taste too Perfect. Yeah, okay. Well, I have a story from World War I. Oh different war, yes, Surprise. Yes, surprise, surprise.

5:28 So World War I was 1914 to 1918. Yeah, and it was a global conflict that was kind of triggered by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yeah, that's a good band too Of. Austria-Hungary. It's a band? Yeah, of course it is. Yeah, that's a good band too, of. Austria-Hungary. It's a band. Yeah, of course it is. Yeah, they're good, I like them. Yeah. Yeah, they got some good tunes. So it was a war pitted against the Allied powers, which is France, britain, russia, italy and later the US, and the Central powers, which was Germany, austria-hungary and the Ottoman Empire Okay. So they all thought it was going to kind of end pretty quickly, but it ended up being four years long.

6:09 That's quite a long time, and there were some collapse of empires and kind of a whole new world map kind of formed after this, and I'll have a picture at the end of our episode of those before and after maps. Okay, cool. Yeah, so one of this and I'll tell you a little bit about the death toll, but it was actually like one of the biggest death toll battles. Oh, really Like a specific battle, or are you talking about the whole war? Well, I'm talking about a specific time which I will get to Gotcha. I'm talking about a specific time which I will get to, but the whole war itself, yes, millions of people died.

6:53 Sure. One of those soldiers who did die during the war. His name was Henry Gunther. Gunther okay, he was born June 5th 1895, and at 23, he was living in baltimore. He was of german american heritage. His parents were children of german immigrants sure okay, so he's very freshly american german. Yeah, um, and he was living in a part of baltimore that was heavily influenced by german immigrants as well. Okay, he worked as a clerk and a bookkeeper for the National Bank of Baltimore, so just kind of a regular chap, right? Sure, he actually did try to avoid being enlisted because of his background.

7:38 Oh, like a conflict of interest kind of thing, yeah, yeah, since the US was of against germany and that whole thing. But he ended up being drafted okay, but not until june or july of 1918. Oh, so like right towards the end yeah, so he like managed to sticker, like not enlist, for a really long time, not be a part of the war for a really long time. Yeah, okay, because when did it end? In 1918? . November. November okay, that's right. So he went into the US Army's 79th Liberty Division. The 79th was made up of working-class East Coast guys, immigrants, laborers, first-generation Americans, many who've never traveled abroad before.

8:23 Oh, I'm sure, yeah. So Gunther, with this division, went over to France. Generation Americans, many who've never traveled abroad before oh, I'm sure, yeah. So Gunther, with his division, went over to France in July of 1918. And he was a supply sergeant in Company A of the 313th Infantry. Okay, so, a supply sergeant, he was responsible for managing and distributing gear, weapons, uniforms to all the soldiers and everything exactly kind of basically everything that they would need to function in the field because they're regular old sears and roebuck over there exactly this particular regiment was um heavily baltimore, um Baltimore people.

9:05 So they called it Baltimore's own. Oh, okay. So did he know any of the other people that he was in the regiment with or no? I'm not sure, but he does bring up a friend here pretty quickly. So Gunther's unit participated in the and I'm so sorry there's a couple of French words in here and I'm going to butcher them, and my apologies. It wouldn't be a History of Buffoons episode if you didn't butcher at least one to three words. I know, hopefully only that many. Let's not get carried away. Gunther participated in the Moose-Agoon Offensive. Okay. It is a Mouse River and the Agoun Forest, so they just kind of combine the two areas.

9:50 It occurred between September 26th through November 11th 1918. It's in the northeastern part of France, so literally like at the end of the war. Yes, so it was primarily the USs and french forces versus germany forces, yeah, and the point was to kind of push through the german defenses and cut their main rail line um, and force germany to to request peace, essentially okay. So the main rail line through sedan, france or sorry, american, um, I think you're close enough. I mean again, we're through Sedan, france, or sorry. American. I think you're close enough. I mean, again, we're not French, so sorry for any French people that probably are not listening to this.

10:39 Al, you're not French right. So that was like a critical German supply route during World War I. It was connected to the Western Front with Germany's heartland. It allowed the movement of troops and ammunition and supplies and stuff like that. They were trying to cut off that main supply chain. It was part of the final allied push to end World War I. The battle was intended to break up Germany's last defensive barrier. It was called the Hindenburg Line. Why was it the Hindenburg Line? So it was a massive network of bunkers, trenches, barbed wire, machine guns, and basically it was like their front line that they could retreat behind.

11:29 And it was miles and miles and miles long. Could you imagine being the people who were tasked with digging those trenches? Because, I mean trench warfare in World War. I was huge, yeah, and like you've seen some movies, obviously more or less, but that would suck and life in those trenches was fucking hell. Yeah, yeah. So it stretched across northern France, from the northwest of Verdun up towards Belgium and, like I said, it was a way for them to fall behind that line as a part of protection, protection yeah, so, as I said, it was a way for them to fall behind that line as a part of protection Protection, yeah.

12:14 So, as I said, this is a forest area, so there was really thick forests and kind of a hellscape-type terrain. There was constant rain and mud, making movement nearly impossible during this time. Keep your socks dry. Yeah, supply lines were a mess. Communications often broke down that's a really good led zeppelin song communication breakdown. Fucking love that song weird, it's a good song. So the length of this offensive lasted 47 days. American troops that were engaged was about 1.2 million. Wow. So overall between the Allied forces and Germany, over 300,000 people were either died or wounded.

12:58 Were either died. Had either died or were wounded. Sorry, I couldn't let that pass. That's a lot of people. This was the deadliest campaign in World War I yes. More than D-Day which was like 15,000 to 20,000. And Battle of the Bulge, which was 150,000 to 200,000. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, okay yeah, and it lasted 47 days. That's crazy. Yeah, okay, yeah, and it lasted 47 days. That's a long time. Because you said September 26th to November 11th, and is November 11th, the last day of the? and that's why it's Veterans Day, right, yeah. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah. It's because of World War I.

13:38 Yeah, that's the day I started my first day in the beer business in 2002. That's my sister's birthday. Well, happy birthday. She never got cards on her birthday. It was always an American holiday. I always feel sorry for her about that. Well, you know, at least she had her own holiday. She did. Anyway in September 1918, gunther remember Henry Gunther. I do remember him. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, he wrote a letter back home to a friend, okay, and he complained about the conditions of army life. Well, I mean, I can't imagine it was glamorous yeah. No, he was like it's chaotic, it's muddy, I'm dirty all the time.

14:19 I'm wet all the time. I can't imagine showers were readily available for them probably not no trenches yeah, trenches don't have built-in showers and or toilets, for that matter nope, no latrines, if you will the whole thing's a latrine he told his buddy do not enlist, do not come over here. For the love of god, man, man, don't do it. It's awful. Yeah. But, he did anyways. Thanks to the espionage of excuse me the Espionage Act of 1917. Okay. His letter was intercepted by a censor and the letter was deemed violated, essentially wartime censorship laws under this espionage act.

15:12 So it's designed to keep people from interfering with the war effort, especially by leaking secrets, discouraging enlistment or spreading anti-war messages. And that's exactly what he was doing. He was. He was not encouraging his buddy to enlist or to join up or whatever Yep, and so I guess technically that's going against what he said or what they, what they said. So I mean that sucks. They made it a crime to spy or share defense-related info that could help the enemy, but he wasn't sharing that. I'm not done with my list. Well, I mean my apologies.

15:53 There's a couple, carry on, will you? It was also a crime to interfere with military operations or recruitment. Well, that's the recruitment part. Encourage insubordination in the armed forces. Okay, or obstruct the draft or to speak against it, which is also kind of what he was doing, so okay. So the penalties were fines up to $10,000 or up to 20 years in prison. Holy shit. Yeah, that's a long time for just saying dude, don't do it. Yeah, wow, long time for just saying dude, don't do it. Yeah, so, wow. So the army treated gunther's letter as more of a morale issue, not a prosecute, prosecutable defense. Did I say that right? Offense sorry, prosecutable offense yeah and instead of court-martialing which they could have done, I'm still keeping that one they stripped him of his sergeant's sergeant's stripes and demoted him to private.

16:47 Oh, man so they use this as kind of a disciplinarian slap on the wrist. Anyone else does this shit. Look what's gonna happen to you, yeah but because of his heritage and because of the letter, they put suspicion under him. Oh, I suppose. I suppose because he is mostly German. Yes, so under the stigma of the demotion and the suspicion, gunther became kind of obsessed with proving his loyalty. So Conrads later recalled that his demeanor changed quite a bit, I would imagine it did, because I mean, that's quite an altering thing where he's stripped of his rank and then pretty much you're a pariah. Yeah, exactly yeah.

17:28 So he was withdrawn and kind of brooded over his lost rank and he volunteered for some of the more dangerous duties. Okay. He served as a runner or a messenger for his company, repeatedly braving machine gunfire and artillery fire, repeatedly braving like machine gunfire and artillery fire. Right and just days before november 11th, he was carrying an urgent message when a german bullet shattered his wrists, both wrists, one one of his wrists okay but he bound the wound, said nothing to his officers and just reported to do for duty, like he just kind of took it fucking hurt though yeah I mean I, the only bone I've ever broken in my body, I, I guess, fractured my right wrist.

18:14 That wasn't fun, so I can't imagine getting shot in my wrist and having it shattered. Yeah, because that's a lot worse than what happened to me by a million fucking times. Yep, so damn yeah so in the final weeks, his, his soldier, his fellow soldiers kind of noted how he had grown sullen um and he was trying to make good before the officers, kind of thing, sure. So november 11th 1918, there was the armistice. I hope I'm pronouncing that right I believe that's how you pronounce it. Um so, the armistice. I hope I'm pronouncing that right, I believe that's how you pronounce it. So the armistice is a formal agreement to stop fighting between warring parties. It's not quite a peace treaty, but it's more like a ceasefire.

18:57 It's a stop so that they can be allowed to have peace terms negotiated, kind of thing. Yeah right. So Allied and German commanders agreed on November 11th that the armistice would be signed at 5 am I've heard 5 am. I also heard 5, 10 am and then it would take effect at 11 am. Gotcha. Okay. So Marshall Ferdinand Foch of France Okay, he was a supreme commander he insisted that the fighting continue until 11 to allow word to reach the front. And American commanders, including General Pershing, backed this policy.

19:39 So one account notes that foch gave his generals six hours to get the word out and purge or, excuse me, pershing urged them to keep the pressure on until 11 am. So both both were like just keep going, keep going until 11 o'clock, just keep going more people need to keep doing it yeah, so um pershing reportedly like disagreed with the armistice terms. He wanted an unconditional surrender, I'm sure, and he thought that, like germany, was kind of getting off too easy which I. I can see his point or view on that, I guess. But people that don't need to die don't need to die exactly so just how about?

20:20 I don't know, fucking stop yeah so whether, no matter what side. At that point, just stop killing people and figure it out after that yeah, right all right so the 79th division, baltimore's own own um, was ordered to attack at 9 30 am, knowing that the armistice was imminent in just 90 minutes okay so um brigadier general william nicholson of the 313th Infantry said quote there will be absolutely no let up until 11 o'clock end. Quote. So, like once it strikes 11, their guns just stop working. I mean, what the fuck, mm-hmm, good Lord. So at 1044, a runner reached Gunther's unit with new orders Hold the line, neither advance nor give way to the rear until 11.

21:12 So hold your ground. For 16 more minutes. Yeah Well, they were going to fight until 11, and then at 1044, they're like hold the phone. Yeah. Or my beer. Hold my beer, hold my beer beer hold my beer while I read this letter aloud aloud. All of a sudden we're southern so, um back of the armistice, the us wasn't invited to the signing agreement why, it's because of pershing. So what a dick. Foch of france, foch of france, general maxim vagand of france, which is foch's chief of staff, all right, from, also from france.

21:57 And then a british naval officer named admiral rosalyn wemis sorry, wemmis, sorry, sorry. He represented the UK. Okay, they signed on behalf of the Allied powers. Okay, all right, the Central Powers were a German civilian representative and two German military officers. Okay, so France and Britain were running the negotiations and they wanted to kind of wrap things up quickly. Yeah, they wanted to stop this. Yeah, and the U? S was a major player militarily but they didn't think as much diplomatically and kind of still the new kid at the table because they came in so late.

22:40 New kid at the table. So if Pershing wasn't in the room, they could actually get on with the signing, because pershing was against the armistice and he wanted to like fight. Let's just fight another week and just see what happens why do you think he wanted to do that? I guess, like what was just he's a story for another time, I think it might be because, like, apparently, he just wanted to kill people. Yeah, because that's all he's doing, and the problem is, he's not just killing the enemy, he's killing his own people too by staying in exactly the fight. So it's like come on, man. Yeah, so that he wasn't invited I don't see why not, because what a dick so as gunther's unit approached a municipality called chamon, devant chamon, devant d'un vivier that's a mouthful damn.

23:34 I feel like you did a pretty good job on that. Whether it's right or not, I don't know, I don't know. So on november 11th, they approached this municipality and gunther saw a German machine gun post directly ahead. Oh shit. According to a more contemporary, or like post-war account by private James M Kane, german crews on a nearby roadblock had fired warning shots and then ceased, apparently waiting for the armistice. Oh, okay, okay. Warning shots and then ceased, apparently waiting for the armistice. Oh, okay, okay. So they probably also got word of the ceasefire at around 10 44 ish. Give or take, right, you know.

24:14 So they stopped, wow. So we're not really sure what happened, but gunther suddenly rose up and announced that he would take the machine gun nest but why, man, you're not supposed to, you're not supposed to advance I know he wants to prove himself yeah, because he kind of got shunned. But, dude, you're supposed to wait to prove yourself would be to, I don't know. Listen to orders yeah, and okay. His comrades warned him. The war is going to be over in minutes. Comrades, Are they Russian now? Comrades. I'm kidding Comrades. Yeah, comrade. Is that Russian? No, that's what Russians say all the time, comrades.

24:55 Yeah. I learned something today, unless. I'm wrong. I mean, I always remember everything I see with Russians. They always say comrades, so we'll look it up later, not right now. But he did arm himself. But some accounts kind of differed in what he armed himself with, whether it was his Browning automatic rifle or a fixed bayonet. He charged alone towards the Germans. Dude German soldiers, waving their hands and speaking in broken English, pleaded with him to stop. Go back, the war is over, man. But he continued forward. Gunther ignored orders to stop.

25:39 He fired at the Germans and kept coming with them with his bayonet or his rifle. Yeah, At 10.59. One minute before everything stops. Literally one minute before 11 o'clock, he was cut down by a burst of machine gun and killed instantly, and then, of course, within seconds. Everyone stopped Everyone stopped. Why man. Eyewitnesses from both sides testified that the Germans had tried to restrain him For sure. Yeah. And after 11 o'clock German troops came out with a stretcher, carried Gunther's body back to the American lines, even potentially shook hands with the US soldiers.

26:23 Obviously stunned, pleased to meet you, but they explained they only shot him in self-defense essentially Well, obviously stunned, pleased to meet you, but they explained they only shot him in self-defense essentially. Well, you can't fault him. No, I know. I mean because he went rogue more or less he did To try and prove himself when, dude, you just had to stop. Yeah, for the love of God, fucking stop. Yeah, you get to go home soon. Yeah, but he was just so heartbroken I guess we'll call it lack of a better term and he wanted to make hey man, I'm, I'm not a fucking spy or whatever yeah, I would assume that gunther heard about the ceasefire he had to have. We don't know I mean no, we don't. But I guess the reason why I say he had to have is because everybody else fucking knew about it yeah.

27:09 So it's not like it was like, and everyone was telling like no, come back. What are you doing? And then the Germans are even like dude. No stop, yeah, deutschland. Nine, whatever Nine, yeah, you know. Um, obviously historians are like well, maybe he was just trying to redeem himself. Which again I understand, because he felt a little slighted because of the letter he wrote and whatever and his demotion and stuff and whatever. So I get it, but man, you're so fucking close. So even Gunther's great niece, carol Aikman. She said that he might have felt he had something to restore for his family's honor. Essentially, sure, right.

27:49 So Henry Gunther's death was quickly noted in the US Army records. Okay, the 313th Infantry War Diary now in the National Archives records that at 1058, private Gunther stood up and charged with the German lines and then he must have been shot at 1059. Yeah, archival documents include a telegram Confirming his death and even a handwritten note of the time. Okay, his family requested that his body be sent home and in 1923 Gunther's remains were returned to Baltimore For burial. General Pershing that douche. Douche canoe. Formerly recognized Gunther were returned to Baltimore for burial. General Pershing. That douche Douche canoe.

28:30 Formerly recognized Gunther. In his end-of-war report, pershing's order of the day identified Henry Gunther as quote, the last man killed in World War. I end quote among US troops. So it wasn't anything good, it was just literally a statement of truth. It was a statement of what happened that day okay, yeah um so. Official casualty lists show that november 11th actually saw an unusually high toll isn't that funny. When that's supposed to be the day, everything stops. And then they like no, let's fight for six more fucking hours. Yeah. Or five hours and 50 minutes, depending on what you read.

29:11 Yeah, and it's like it's one of the higher toll death toll days. It's like, come on, man, You're supposed to be fucking stopping. What the hell. So nearly 2,738 Allied soldiers, including 320 Americans, were killed that day, Holy shit, in the six hours after the armistice was signed. Isn't that wild to think? about Again from what I just said it was supposed to end. Yeah, and if douchebags like Pershing? Right and whoever just would have said no, let's not wait till 11. It's fucking done at 5 o'clock, or? 510. Yeah. All those people would have been alive, to go back to their families and or whatever.

29:51 Yep. But yet no, let's extend this a little bit longer and all those people died. Yep Gunther would be alive to well, not today, but yeah, he would have been able to go back home and whatever. Yeah. So how old was he? I'm sorry he was born in 18. What he was? 23 in 1918. Okay, so within months gunther's rank was restored, oh really, and he was awarded honors. In 1923, the war department posthumously reinstated him as sergeant and awarded him the distinguished service cross for exceptional bravery because he ran at the germans yeah, I mean he did other like dangerous things to try to prove himself.

30:32 So I mean sure um. His baltimore. Funeral in 1923 was attended by family and city officials and his gravestone in most holy redeemer cemetery. Redeemer cemetery okay, in balt, baltimore bears this inscription quote, highly decorated for exceptional bravery and heroic action that resulted in his death one minute before the armistice. End quote. And that's the story of Mr Henry Gunther and the end of World War I. The last person to die in World War? I, basically. Yeah, as far as you know, I mean there could have been other parts of it. Yeah, but it sounds like, according to Pershing, it was the last US troop.

31:13 Us troop, yeah, I suppose that's even more accurate. Yeah, but damn, I mean, what a way to get remembered Be the last person killed in the war. Yeah Well, sorry, mr Gunther, that you had to try and prove yourself, and I don't know. Could you just fucking stop? Yeah. You want to learn some idioms? I do. All right. It's been a second. It has been a second. I feel like it's been a long second actually. Yeah. Let me try and not make too much A minute. perhaps it's been a long minute. A New York minute. Perhaps it's been a long minute. A new york minute, wait um. All right, new york, don't start singing that song.

31:54 Fuck alicia keys. I like that song I think, she's a great singer you can like it. I just I'm sick of that song. I know you want to zoom in. I believe in me. There we go. All right, this one is from you. Oh, you gave me this one. I mean, I've heard it before, but you, goddamn cord, you gave it to us for the list. Okay. So the idiom is get out of Dodge. Oh, all right, yeah, yeah yeah, it's got a very specific and traceable origin. Awesome, and it's a little more recent than many, of course, older idioms, so let's get into it here. The origin is from the TV show.

32:35 Take a guess. What year? 1955 to 1975 it ran. Oh, 55 to 75. Yeah. Comedy. No Western. Oh, even fewer that I know of Matlock. Yeah, really. No, it wasn't in 55. I don't know, it was Andy Griffith, jesus Christ Matlock. I don't know Matlock was a Western, I don't know. Clearly, I just put it out there. Have you never watched matlock? No, what is it? He's a lawyer. He solved things, wow harry mason I love that show.

33:18 That's also a good ozzy osbourne song okay, what show? gun smoke that was my next. It was not. Don't fucking lie to me. Have you ever heard of that show? Yeah, okay. So Dodge refers to Dodge City, kansas, which is a real town in the American West. It became legendary as a symbol of the lawless frontier. So Dodge City was a wild place. In the late 1800s it was a booming cattle town and railhead, infamous for gambling saloons, brothels and gunfights. It had a reputation as the quintessential wild west town. So the phrase get out of dodge was popularized and likely coined by the show.

34:03 Um, because it took place in dodge city and the main character, marshall matt dylan, uh, who kept the peace in the city. Every time an outlaw or troublemaker caused issues, they'd eventually be told at gunpoint or under the threat of jail uh, you better get out of dodge. So this the line was frequently and memorably used, enough that it caught on with people who watch the show. And people who don't. Yeah, right. So basically, originally, get out of Dodge literally meant leave Dodge City because you're not welcome anymore, you've caused trouble and it's time for you to go before things get worse.

34:44 All right, oh, that's awesome. So it's kind of the transition into modern usage. Um, it's evolved into, uh, basically an idiom for getting out of a bad or dangerous situation, not necessarily you know a town, dodge city anymore yeah yeah, um, but like it says, basically contemporary meanings get out of town fast, escape a tense, sketchy or undesirable environment, leave work or an event quickly, abandon a stressful situation altogether. Get out of Dodge. Yeah, and I've used that in my life before. Oh for sure. So like you can use it in different versions, obviously, like this party's dead, let's get out of Dodge. Or once I saw the boss coming, I got out of dodge, um, but it's basically said you know, basically you know, because of the time the show came out, baby boomers or who watched the show really kind of latched on to that.

35:39 Yeah, um, but it's you know why it's stuck is it's like the alliteration and punchy rhythm make it stick in your head kind of? oh, for sure I can see that it paints a vivid picture of someone just walking out of town, basically. Get out of Manitowoc. Doesn't quite have the same ring, doesn't have the same ring at all actually Get out of Green Bay. But it can be used literally, dramatically or comedically, obviously, because you can be serious about it, you can be funny about it. It just fucking works on everything. It's versatile. Very versatile.

36:19 I've been here too long. It's time to get out of Dodge or whatever however you want to word it. But yeah, it's from a 50s tv show gun smoke gun smoke mainly, and that popularized it. So awesome, love it. Yeah, all right another would you like another? yeah, this is also from you oh look at you go look at me go you're on a fucking roll. like for like two weeks I would just get message after message and like I had to literally stop writing them down because there were so many of them and I just went back and had to like go through your, your, our text thread and be like fuck, I didn't write any of these down, so I just went through and I think I got most of them, but I picked two for today because I wanted to, so this one is till the cows come home.

37:13 Oh yeah. So it says is one of those phrases that sounds old, rural and kind of goofy, but its origins actually make perfect sense once you dig in. All right sense once you dig in. All right, so the literal meaning is used, for it's basically means for a very long time, or forever in a day, kind of thing, which I also feel like. That's more like an idiom too, but yeah, forever in a day yeah, but he says they gave some examples. You'll often hear it like this you can argue with her till the cows come home. She's not going to change her mind. They'll be playing video games till the cows come home. All right, so the origin of it basically, um, it's agricultural life in the british isles, is what they say.

37:59 It came from, which? 16th or 17th century, so it's been around for a while, kind of kind of thing. But, um, in traditional pasture-based farming, cows were turned out to graze in fields, sometimes far away from the barn or homestead. Cows are notoriously slow-moving, easily distracted and very deliberate in their pace. Are you talking about me? I didn't call you a cow. Don't put that on me. Don't put that on me. Don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby, or whatever the line is. What's that from Talladega Nights? The Legend of Ricky Bobby. Never seen it. You've never seen that movie, oh man.

38:41 I'm not a huge Will Ferrell fan. There are some I like. I like a good portion of his filmography. Okay, continue Anyways. All right. So they're very slow moving, easily distracted. Blah, blah, blah. When left to wander in grays they often take their sweet time coming back, Usually at the end of the day or even at milking time, which might be hours later at the end of the day or even at milking time, which might be hours later. So when someone said till the cows come home, they meant you'll be waiting a long time, my friend. The earliest printed uses of this phrase show up in Scottish poetry from the 1700s.

39:22 It was originally used in proverbial sense, meaning people already knew what it meant before it got printed, so it was common already. But the first printed use was in the 1700s. So James Hogg, a Scottish poet, used it in his writings in the early 19th century. I may wait till the cows come home for my part. So it's a reason why it works. It's visually funny because you can picture cows. Everyone pretty much can picture cows, A bunch of lazy cows just kind of moseying their way on back, you know, after grazing in the field, kind of. Thing. It's relatable for everybody because even if you're not a farmer, you drive past fucking cows or whatever.

40:03 You can see it and so on, and it's mildly sarcastic, it can be used warmly or dryly, and that versatility makes it useful in a lot of situations. Mark Twain's used it in a book, a lot of cartoons and sitcoms have had it in, even political speeches and parodies, stuff like that. But yeah, so basically it uh, till the cows come home, you're gonna be waiting a long time, yep I love it move move or or don't, so yeah, so it's. It's been a while since we did some idioms, so that was nice.

40:44 Yeah, we haven't done those since. Uh, I think we might have done one after the idiom episode, but I think it's been a while yeah but we've also had, I don't know, like two hour fucking long episodes and we don't need to make them longer. Thank you, diet law, for being a fucked up story. Yeah, that was crazy, but it was fun. Okay, I rather enjoyed that so how did you like your? what was it? Your ipa? Yeah, my, uh. Fourth, fourth Rider of Light India Pale Ale from Sun King Brewery and Three Floyds Brewing. Right, it's delicious. I made it through my first 16 ounce and I am about four ounces into my next one. I also enjoyed my Harvester Lager by Chapman's Brewing Company.

41:29 Yeah. I have not opened my second can because I'm not done with my first. Well, I always bring two, just in case, oh for sure. I know for you it's hard because you're doing a lot of the initial talking and whatever. So I get it, but I always bring us two just to be safe, because, well, you get thirsty, I get thirsty and I like beer. I'm not gonna lie, yeah, um, and I usually get through at least one, if not two. I did not get through two because these are 16 ounce ones. So thanks for the big gulps, indiana. Um, but no, I I do. I do like it. It's good I've had. Obviously I've had three floyds, like I said I've had. I don't know I think it was one of the different.

42:09 Uh, oh, shoot, which one was it? I've had one on our podcast before, but, um, I used to sell them a long long time ago. Okay. Very hard to get. At the time I sold them there was very high in demand. I don't know if that's still the same. I'm out of the beer business, but they're really good. I never knew of Sun King Brewing, Sun King Brewery, but well, their collab is delish. Their collab is delish. Let's see if I wrote that down. Their collab is delish. No, the Floyd's, Is that what you said? Three Floyds.

42:50 I did not write that down as having done it yet. I think I had one of their zombie dusts it was the cryo zombie dust I think I might have had. I'm not sure we're on episode 52. I can barely remember episode 51. So, gotcha, I'm not sure we're on episode 52. I can barely remember episode 51, so, yeah, what Shout out to the Shelton's? Well, I suppose. All right, buffoons. That's it for today's episode. Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you. Next time Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore.

43:33 Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube X, instagram and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmailcom. We are Bradley and Kate. Music by Corey Akers. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop. Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us. Remember, the buffoonery never stops Music, music, music, music.